| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 07:54:56
With OV and Lapierre being suspended for dangerous hits from behind into the boards, do you think the NHL should and/or will suspend Daniel Alfredsson for running Francois Beauchemin into the boards last night?
I personally don't think anything will happen, but with all the controversy surrounding dangerous hits I think the NHL will at least review the play.
What do you guys think? Have a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2_cDsfarnQ
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 00:12:05
Hopefully, quoting myself from another post doesn't come across as too narcissistic, although I am a fairly big fan of myself....Elvis really did rock.
On another thread, I posted the following;
"Another shining example of why there needs to be mandatory suspensions for intent, regardless of outcome.
I've mentioned in other posts, the referees should be much more liberal in their use of the 5 minute major and game misconduct call. Automatic review following any call made like that.
Standard suspensions for, in this case, deliberate intent to injure, starting at 5 games, and increasing with any subsequent recurrence by the offending player, 2nd offence 10 games, 3rd offence 20 games, 4th offence indefinite dismissal and minimum 1 year before application for re-instatement.
Same sort of formula for hits from behind, intentional elbows, high sticks etc. Lay the law down a bit, weed out the meatballs and allow that blend of physicality and skill that is supposed to be hockey.
If a Wisniewski, or a Downie, or a Cooke get tossed for life after 4 chances, do we as fans really care? If an Ovechkin even, can't figure it out after the first couple of suspensions, should even a player of his caliber be exempt?
I'm guessing if this sort of standardization became the norm, the Ovechkin's would learn quickly that their skill is more important to them and their team than their brawn.
I don't see the NHL being that progressive, but we can always hope..."
This sort of automatic process, would take any conjecture out of what to do after it has been determined to be a major foul.
But, as you say Nuxfan," ref's need to have the stones to call it."
The beauty of the automated, graduated suspensions, in whatever format, means that your second point, "the league needs to have the stones to back it up with big suspensions.",
wouldn't be necessary, taking the politics and public opinion out of the equation.
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 22:43:47
quote:
Fair enough, I appreciate your opinions, and your stance.
Would a standard penalty for something like hitting from behind, then be a waste? Something like an automatic 5 minute major and accompanying game misconduct. Then it makes the result of the hit truly irrelevant. You hit from behind you get penalized, no brainer. Would this help stop this play, before someone truly does get severly injured, again?
I think the issue should be addressed with a special type of penalty, or a penalty/misconduct, as you suggest - along the lines of the current match penalty, or use the already-there-but-hardly-used attempt to injure. The special penalty would add an instant review of the play for that particular penalty, which could result in a suspension. Many other factors would come into play in deciding on an additional suspension - player history, the state of the game at the time the hit had been dished out, the severity of the injury to the other player, etc. That way, you can hand out meaningful suspensions for actions.
In order for that to happen, 2 things need to happen:
1. ref's need to have the stones to call it.
2. the league needs to have the stones to back it up with big suspensions.
If Ovechkin were to get hit with a 20 game suspension, he'd take notice, and so would the Caps, and so would other players in the league. You'd see a quick end to hits like that.
quote:
And I do agree, the spotlight on headshots does make any hits that seem excessive now, higher priority, but was it not the excessive hits that put them in the spotlight to start with? I only say it like that because, there seems to be more occurrences of these excessive, often times stupid and cheap, plays happening.
The media runs with players lack of respect for each other and questionable play, and in the weeks following the heightened attention, you have the Lapierre, Ovechkin, Alfredsson and now Wisniewski incidents still happening....I don't get it, it's almost like the NHL wants us to become de-sensitized to this type of play, with their lack of, IMO, an appropriate response to these issues.
You are right, the hits themselves cause the media attention. However, in the last week there have been 4 pretty serious offenses, which is an unnatural cluster - in most seasons we might see 4 hits like that all year - and each one only seems to get the fervor up more and more. So anything that happens now will be scrutinized even more, even if it doesn't necessarily deserve it. |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 20:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Just a couple things, I am wondering if Beauchemin would have simply fell into the boards a little differently than he did, and gotten injured, quite possibly seriously, even though the hit wasn't a crushing blow, but still enough to knock him off his skates, face first into the boards, would that change you opinion of the call made and any subsequent discipline?
Also, do you feel the coverage of the recent questionable hits, headhshots and dangerous crosscheck/pushes, shouldn't be as much as it is, even though it's accounted for a loss of I believe 40+ games, for Booth, and undetermined amount of games known yet, for Savard, and the remainder of the season with multiple fractures, for Campbell?
The hit that I saw was not that significant, and the penalty was appropriate for the play. You can argue different scenarios, but I would suggest that it changes everything. I don't know what would have happened if the positioning was different, maybe Alfie would have let up and not hit him at all and this issue is moot. I do think that a player's injury from a penalized hit should factor into any suspension however - the fact that Beachamin got right up and started pounding on someone changes things IMO.
I said nothing about amount of coverage either way - I simply suggested that headshots are in the spotlight right now, and as a result hard bodychecks that would otherwise not be covered as anything more than a "highlight of the nigh" are getting a lot more scrutiny.
Fair enough, I appreciate your opinions, and your stance.
Would a standard penalty for something like hitting from behind, then be a waste? Something like an automatic 5 minute major and accompanying game misconduct. Then it makes the result of the hit truly irrelevant. You hit from behind you get penalized, no brainer. Would this help stop this play, before someone truly does get severly injured, again?
And I do agree, the spotlight on headshots does make any hits that seem excessive now, higher priority, but was it not the excessive hits that put them in the spotlight to start with? I only say it like that because, there seems to be more occurrences of these excessive, often times stupid and cheap, plays happening.
The media runs with players lack of respect for each other and questionable play, and in the weeks following the heightened attention, you have the Lapierre, Ovechkin, Alfredsson and now Wisniewski incidents still happening....I don't get it, it's almost like the NHL wants us to become de-sensitized to this type of play, with their lack of, IMO, an appropriate response to these issues.
Ahh well.... |
| ludakyle |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 13:30:38
what a dirty ass hit. who the f*** does alfredsson think he is.
the worst part is wen they interviewed him he thought it wasnt dirty. like wtf, is he high |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 13:19:57
quote:
Just a couple things, I am wondering if Beauchemin would have simply fell into the boards a little differently than he did, and gotten injured, quite possibly seriously, even though the hit wasn't a crushing blow, but still enough to knock him off his skates, face first into the boards, would that change you opinion of the call made and any subsequent discipline?
Also, do you feel the coverage of the recent questionable hits, headhshots and dangerous crosscheck/pushes, shouldn't be as much as it is, even though it's accounted for a loss of I believe 40+ games, for Booth, and undetermined amount of games known yet, for Savard, and the remainder of the season with multiple fractures, for Campbell?
The hit that I saw was not that significant, and the penalty was appropriate for the play. You can argue different scenarios, but I would suggest that it changes everything. I don't know what would have happened if the positioning was different, maybe Alfie would have let up and not hit him at all and this issue is moot. I do think that a player's injury from a penalized hit should factor into any suspension however - the fact that Beachamin got right up and started pounding on someone changes things IMO.
I said nothing about amount of coverage either way - I simply suggested that headshots are in the spotlight right now, and as a result hard bodychecks that would otherwise not be covered as anything more than a "highlight of the nigh" are getting a lot more scrutiny. |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 20:15:34
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
definite 2 minute penalty, possibly a double minor (although I'm not sure if you can give that for boarding?)
It was a clear hit from behind and he should have gotten penalized. But Beauchemin was clearly not hurt - in fact he was up right away in the fracas that ensued. Alfie doesn't do this regularly and has no history with the league, so I'm going to assume no review.
With the recent headshots and OV hit, every hit from behind seems to be getting a bit more coverage than normal...
Just a couple things, I am wondering if Beauchemin would have simply fell into the boards a little differently than he did, and gotten injured, quite possibly seriously, even though the hit wasn't a crushing blow, but still enough to knock him off his skates, face first into the boards, would that change you opinion of the call made and any subsequent discipline?
Also, do you feel the coverage of the recent questionable hits, headhshots and dangerous crosscheck/pushes, shouldn't be as much as it is, even though it's accounted for a loss of I believe 40+ games, for Booth, and undetermined amount of games known yet, for Savard, and the remainder of the season with multiple fractures, for Campbell?
Just asking for clarification.
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| Guest6671 |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 19:01:45
Most people I believe are right on this one there needs to be a little suspension or something, you look at the hit he didnt turn when was running at him it was right from behind and head first into the board, boarding, I really think this is worst hit from behind then ovechkin so i think atleast 2 games as Ovie sounds fair to me if you really look at the hit. But Ovechkins might have been more aggressive since it was a hard push just to the boards. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 16:58:36
definite 2 minute penalty, possibly a double minor (although I'm not sure if you can give that for boarding?)
It was a clear hit from behind and he should have gotten penalized. But Beauchemin was clearly not hurt - in fact he was up right away in the fracas that ensued. Alfie doesn't do this regularly and has no history with the league, so I'm going to assume no review.
With the recent headshots and OV hit, every hit from behind seems to be getting a bit more coverage than normal... |
| Guest4022 |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 16:51:25
It wasn't even as if Beauch turned at the last second. He had his back facing Alfie the entire time, and he yet still went in there and hit him the way he did. It wasn't a massive hit, but it shouldn't take away from the fact that it was still a dangerous and illegal hit. And given the time that Alfie had to think about it, he really should have known better and I think that should be taken into consideration when the NHL decides on any disciplinary action. |
| Guest9103 |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 16:32:21
Call on the ice was 2 for boarding... |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 14:22:29
Ya, definately a review. Maybe a fine or a game at the most.
It was far from the Lapierre or Ovechkin hit, but dangerous none the less.
Still, it's against the Leafs, who cares!!
(I have to get my digs while I can. In 3 weeks, I have to be nice to the Leafs!!) |
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 09:44:45
I definately think it warrants a review, what was the call at the time? I am assuming a minor of some sort if Alfie got sent to the penalty box. This is another circumstance where the refs needs to be able to use their discretion(a term which is mentioned 35 times in regards to the referee, in the NHL Rule Book, by the way), and make a sound judgement call.
In this case, there was definately a hit from behind, near the boards, which should be an automatic boarding major and subsequent game misconduct, if the leauge wants to begin toning these type of hits down.
An automatic review should follow and any additional discipline should then be considered. I would think another game would be justified any time it's a blatant hit from behind, as this was, regardless of outcome. Do this with consistency and maybe the bad plays will subside eventually. |
| freddyboy |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 09:31:08
since Beauchemin is not injured, at least doesn't seem injured from what we see, he might get a game. it's probably the way the NHL might analyze it. it deserve a suspension, the elbow is straight in the "numbers" and therefore it should be from behind, i think.
the nhl needs to punish the action, not the results. he's not injured, therefore no suspension?? i don't think so, it was a dangerous boarding/charging/hit from the back play by Alfredson and not because beauchemin is not injured that he shouldn't get something.
IMO Alfredson should get 1 game
oh and btw Slozo you ain't a giant p... , watching figure skating is quite interesting during the olympics and on CBC from time to time. 
hockey is a physical game and hits are going to happen but be sure that some dangerous play are going to be ban, a clean hard hit is amazing and a dirty cheap hit is bad, just have to find the middle
joe is a god, if u dont agree....i dont care |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:36:58
Might be argued that this isn't quite as bad as OV's hit on Campbell, but it is certainly deserving of a one game suspension I think.
Of course, me advocating for the enforcement of rules is just me being a Leafs fan who wants to take hitting out of the game because I'm a giant p**** who wants to watch figure skating ballet as opposed to hockey (just to clarify the opposing arguments sure to come).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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