| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| leigh |
Posted - 09/15/2010 : 15:20:19
Ok in another thread the topic was turning towards the question of some "sports" not really being sports. So I thought I'd start a new thread to keep things on topic.
By which criteria do you define a game as a "sport"?
|
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest8072 |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 23:58:11
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Ok in another thread the topic was turning towards the question of some "sports" not really being sports. So I thought I'd start a new thread to keep things on topic.
By which criteria do you define a game as a "sport"?
Thanks you for the post.
__________________
http://moviesonlineworld.com
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 10:06:05
quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
This could go on forever...
That about sums it up best!
We're now talking about sports, games, diciplines, competions, races, events, etc......
I don't have the answer, but if golf is a game, so too is hockey, no? Last time i checked, i go to hockey games?
Here's what the "free online dictionary" says........
sport (spôrt, sprt)
n.
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.
Like 99pickles said, this could go on forever........ |
| 99pickles |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 08:44:41
A Synchronized Swimming team can still do their thing even if no other team is there, so I wouldn't consider that a sport - but it is certainly a discipline and it's participants are certainly athletes.
Based on that statement, cheerleading falls into the same category of being a discipline because they do in fact have competitions.
Baseball is certainly a sport. It has set rules, scores, refs, very high-end eye-hand coordination that cannot be denied. It's just not quite as exciting to watch as hockey.
My belief is this: Their are sports, and their are disciplines - or competitions. Synchronized swimming is a discipline. Although much more entertaining to watch, figure skating is a discipline too because you don't have multiple competitors vying for either points or best time at the same time; you have solely judges.
What about all of the individual aspects of the Olympics (or Track and Field Day?) Can the 100 M dash be a sport all by itself? Or the triple-jump? I think many of us would agree that Cross-Country running or long-distance running is a sport, yet I think most Track events are indeed disiplines, yet not truly a sport on their own.
So what really are the parameters? One certainly has to be, "A 'final score' or 'best achievement' of either time or distance in a physically exerting competition, based on a preset list of parameters and rules with judging or refereeing not being the sole method of making the decision of who wins".
That would eliminate Synchronized swimming, figure-skating, diving etc because they are judged completely. That would also eliminate chess and tiddlywinks due to the "physically exerting" bit.
What about golf? I want to call it a sport (no, I do not play it at all) but I guess Beans is right - it's a game, not a sport.
Is High-Jump a sport on it's own? Triple-Jump?
What about NASCAR? I think auto-racing is a competition, not a sport (by definition, that is. It can still be shown on the sports highlights and sports pages). Yes, I know there is some mental judgement going on, and I know that sitting there in the heat for a couple hours making left turns isn't as easy as it looks, but the reason I can't call it a sport: the entire competition is based around the motorized machine.
This could go on forever... |
| Guest8332 |
Posted - 09/17/2010 : 10:25:39
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Guest 8832 - you seem to be taking me to task over broad characterisations, and other people's comments. React to my words, fine - but not other people's.
Not sure what you are getting at. The only thing I'm taking to task is baseball. |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/17/2010 : 10:03:35
Perhaps MMA has about the same amount of rules . . . but it hasn't been an established competition for long enough, I'll say. But yeah, I will retract the "needs more rules" comment, not what I was going for actually.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/17/2010 : 09:07:10
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Guest 8832 - you seem to be taking me to task over broad characterisations, and other people's comments. React to my words, fine - but not other people's.
Boxing, IMHO, is borderline, but still a sport in the non-amateur discipline. Still, I think it is over-judged, and the original sport - bare-fisted, went until one guy quit or was knocked out - now THAT was a sport. Barbaric, but pure sport.
Mixed Martial Arts - not a sport IMHO, it's a competetive athletic endeavour/entertainment. Sport needs a few more rules, in my definition.
Definitely no gymnastic discipline is a sport in my opinion either.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Hey Slozo, you may be contridicting yourself without even knowing in. MMA is governed by the same ruling body as boxing and for the most part has the same rules. In fact, I would suggest there are more rules in MMA as there are more ways to fight(fists only in boxing, any body part except head butting in MMA as well as submision).
If boxing is borderline and the lack of rules is your measuring stick, MMA would be ahead of Boxing and not behind. |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 18:36:47
Guest 8832 - you seem to be taking me to task over broad characterisations, and other people's comments. React to my words, fine - but not other people's.
Boxing, IMHO, is borderline, but still a sport in the non-amateur discipline. Still, I think it is over-judged, and the original sport - bare-fisted, went until one guy quit or was knocked out - now THAT was a sport. Barbaric, but pure sport.
Mixed Martial Arts - not a sport IMHO, it's a competetive athletic endeavour/entertainment. Sport needs a few more rules, in my definition.
Definitely no gymnastic discipline is a sport in my opinion either.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 14:26:11
I think some people are missing the point.
100% judge events are situations where judging takes place 100% of the time. Not MMA or boxing as there are times where a TKO or KO occur. There is also a ref that will impact a fight in situations such as taking away a point for rules infractions.
I think people are significantly over-analysing the impact of refs in sports. Sure, calls are blown or missed or whatever. However, it works out in the wash. The law of averages prevails and 99.99999% of the time there are an equal number of good and bad calls made.
|
| Guest8332 |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 12:16:35
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Very good write-up Leigh, but I would add one caveat to your excellent definition which for me is missing one thing:
A sport would also have
- a definite outcome not totally ruled by human judging
This to me is key in taking out figure skating, diving, ice dance, synchronised swimming, etc. All of these are not even games for me, as I add another two categories:
Boxing.? MMA? is not included because it is not totally judged? But all non TKO/KO results are totally judged.
Any gymnastic discipline?
BTW, baseball is call america's past time. Not a sport. |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 10:07:21
Very good write-up Leigh, but I would add one caveat to your excellent definition which for me is missing one thing:
A sport would also have
- a definite outcome not totally ruled by human judging
This to me is key in taking out figure skating, diving, ice dance, synchronised swimming, etc. All of these are not even games for me, as I add another two categories:
pasttime
judged competition
Btw, I judge baseball differently apparently than you guys . . . definitely a sport (not borderline at all), just like cricket. And in both cases, hardly any mental exertion at all, so I am not sure if that should even be mentioned. There is running, throwing, batting . . . all physical exertions that happen on every play.
Don't judge it by "guys just standing around a lot of the time", otherwise I'd be forced to point out hockey has third and fourth liners that most nights do less than many baseball players in a game, when you count up the minutes of exertion. It might be harder exertion, but you get my point.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest8332 |
Posted - 09/16/2010 : 07:43:15
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
I think the physical excertion lacking in sports like golf and baseball is made up for with the mental exertion required, and the level of knowledge and concentration required, i mean for example i'm playing 3rd base i've got a runner on first and second, 1 out. First things first i got to be thinking double play to get my pitcher outta the jam , but there are so many ways to turn the DP you have to know what your going to do with a slow roller, if its hit between you and the short stop,, if the batter bunts in its a hot shot down the line if you want to be sure to get the lead runner at the three bag if you are going to 2nd right away,, you have to have a play in your mind and set for all these scenrio's and then adjust to for example the runners steal,, a past ball or wild pitch, if he hit a double into the gap gotta get to your bag to maybe make a play at third,, believe it or not this is exertion aswell
Pasty
By your definition of mental exertion, then chess is a sport. So is poker. Tiddly winks, scabble, battleship, darts, pool/billiards, playing the piano.... all extensive mental exertion and hence sport. I don't consider any of these as a sport.
The amount of mental concentration and calculations involved in the activities above puts baseball to shame. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/15/2010 : 22:47:58
Here is my simple defintion of sport vs game. A sport is something you need to have athletic gifts to compete at a high level. A game is something just about anyone with average abilities can work on to get extremely good at.
Example of a Sport: Hockey
I can't skate. Never could. I am slow and the game moves far to fast for my talents. I could play hockey and get coached by the best coaches and never be good enough to play anything more than shinny.
Example of a Game: Golf.
I am an average golfer at best. I have a 13 handicap and can shoot low 80's(high 70's on the really good days). However, if I had the best coaches money could by and could practice every day, there is no doubt in my mind I could be a scratch golfer. Maybe not PGA material, however with work and effort I could play to an elite level.
That is the difference in my opinion. However, the mental side of games such as golf are a completely different story. The difference between elite athletes playing a sport and me are physical and mental. The difference between me and the elite in games is purely mental and time to work at improvements. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 09/15/2010 : 17:34:08
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
To me a sport requires the following:
- an objective to which only one party can achieve dominance
- significant physical exertion
- a set of consistent governing rules
- participants that possses a set of skills which heavily outweigh chance or luck.
If your activity does not involve ALL of the above then it is not a sport. Sorry. Otherwise it's just a game like chess, darts, marbles (or golf???) Key to this is "significant physical exertion". Otherwise you are just playing a game. If you sweat playing your video games then you need to lay off the doritos.
Figure Skating? Definitely a sport! Poker? Not a sport! (TSN are you listening?) Baseball? Yes, but at the low end of the definition, just above golf. Too much waiting around doing nothing. BUT once in a while you get a flurry of activity where you have to work your ass off! So I'll give it some props.
Golf is borderline to me. Technical? Absolutely! And while you do need to exert yourself, it is only in micro seconds. If you had to complete the course in a certain amount of time with the lowest score, then I would consider it a sport. In that case you would have to posses highly technical skills AND exert yourself.
FYI I enjoy playing both Baseball and Golf.
I think the physical excertion lacking in sports like golf and baseball is made up for with the mental exertion required, and the level of knowledge and concentration required, i mean for example i'm playing 3rd base i've got a runner on first and second, 1 out. First things first i got to be thinking double play to get my pitcher outta the jam , but there are so many ways to turn the DP you have to know what your going to do with a slow roller, if its hit between you and the short stop,, if the batter bunts in its a hot shot down the line if you want to be sure to get the lead runner at the three bag if you are going to 2nd right away,, you have to have a play in your mind and set for all these scenrio's and then adjust to for example the runners steal,, a past ball or wild pitch, if he hit a double into the gap gotta get to your bag to maybe make a play at third,, believe it or not this is exertion aswell
Pasty |
| leigh |
Posted - 09/15/2010 : 15:28:37
To me a sport requires the following:
- an objective to which only one party can achieve dominance
- significant physical exertion
- a set of consistent governing rules
- participants that possses a set of skills which heavily outweigh chance or luck.
If your activity does not involve ALL of the above then it is not a sport. Sorry. Otherwise it's just a game like chess, darts, marbles (or golf???) Key to this is "significant physical exertion". Otherwise you are just playing a game. If you sweat playing your video games then you need to lay off the doritos.
Figure Skating? Definitely a sport! Poker? Not a sport! (TSN are you listening?) Baseball? Yes, but at the low end of the definition, just above golf. Too much waiting around doing nothing. BUT once in a while you get a flurry of activity where you have to work your ass off! So I'll give it some props.
Golf is borderline to me. Technical? Absolutely! And while you do need to exert yourself, it is only in micro seconds. If you had to complete the course in a certain amount of time with the lowest score, then I would consider it a sport. In that case you would have to posses highly technical skills AND exert yourself.
FYI I enjoy playing both Baseball and Golf. |
|
|
