| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest4120 |
Posted - 12/09/2010 : 19:14:36
fire the idiot now |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 07:56:49
Guest 4178 - I appreciate the effort in your analogy, but I can't see if there is anything we can take from that, for one simple fact:
Washington has never won a Stanley cup. This core of players has never been past the second round.
We really have no idea if they have what it takes to win, frankly.
You may be right in the part about being patient with the coach, but in my mind, Boudreau would have already been fired if not for his very good relationship with Ovechkin. And sure, upsets happen, and who knows, Boudreau could prove my opinion of him wrong and win the cup . . . but then again, at that point, I may just point to amazing player performances, and not the coaching, as a reason why they finally made it.
I hear you though, and without totally backpedalling . . . yeah, sometimes it's a learning process for a coach as well, and who knows, maybe Boudreau is on that road.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4178 |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:42:25
Just to be clear, Dave Lewis was fired after his second season as Detroit's head coach. (Demoted to a scouting position with the team.) He only coached the team for two seasons, before Babcock took over. |
| Guest4178 |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:35:52
I looked back to see the most recent team which resembles Washington's current situation, and while it's not an exact match, Detroit went a stretch of 3 season with terrific regular season results, yet a lack of playoff success:
2001-2002: Won the Stanley Cup
2002-2003: Finished 3rd overall, bounced in the first round
2003-2004: Finished 1st overall, bounced in the second round
2005-2006: Finished 1st overall, bounced in the first round
2006-2007: Finished 1st overall, lost in semifinals to Anaheim
2007-2008: Finished 1st overall, Won the Stanley Cup
In looking at Detroit's record, one might argue that Washington's 3-year record resembles Detroit's 3-year stretch from 2003-2006. But here's the key ingredient.
Bowman was the Head Coach for the 2002 Cup win, and Dave Lewis (Bowman's assistant) was given a 3-year deal to take over from Scotty. While the team did well in the regular season under Lewis, they faltered in the playoffs, going 6-10 in the 2003 and 2004 playoffs.
Babcock was hired after the lockout, and while his first season behind Detroit's bench during the regular season was quite successful (finishing 1st overall), the team fell to the miracle Oilers in the first round of the playoffs.
Babcock guided the team to 1st overall in the 2006-2007 season, and they lost to Anaheim in the semifinals. But for the 2007-2008 season, the Wings won the President's Trophy and Stanley Cup that year! (And Babcock remains the head coach today.)
What does this all mean? My opinion is that Washington (George McPhee) is being very patient with Boudreau as the head coach. It's time for Washington to "pony up" in the playoffs. The caps are kinda "pot committed" with Boudreau right now. They're not going to change their head coach at this stage of the season, but if the Caps don't make it past the first round (I'm actually betting that they do), Boudreau should and will be toast! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 10:06:45
Duke, I think you intended on saying Hitchcock. The other guy is not really that smart, kind of has a mind of his own, and really loses focus when women are present.
If you hired that guy you would be only slightly better than Wilson. Hitchcock would be significantly better than Wilson.
 |
| The Duke |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 15:02:02
Wish the leafs would hire Hiscock
B.B seems to be in trouble in Washington. |
| tbar |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 13:02:08
Haha first time ive seen that thread.....wasnt around much last year during the playoffs....anyway I love the first posts bye you and Slozo you state exactly what I said. Its only once someone eelse fires out the coach when you guys get in on it. But either way BB will not get fired the Caps will get the the confrence finals and have a good chance to get to the cup. How would you say it Beans.....Mark my words!??
But you did say it back then so ill give you a little credit on that. I will re visit this thread in say 2 or so months and we can continue this. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 11:43:22
quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Beans "However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? "
I'll agree if they get beat first Two rounds they are probablly going to have to let him go.
I find it funny however that no one was calling for his head (that I saw) in the playoffs last year. The only time I saw anyone getting hot and botherd about how he needs to go was on the loseing streak.
You wanted the Best!! You Got the Best!!! (Insert Kiss chant here)
Here is the link to the thread started by Slozo last year directly after the Habs bat the Caps. Take a look at how many people were calling down BB at that time. And it wasn't just me.
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11076 |
| Guest2712 |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 09:58:39
tbar: kind of hard to fire a coach when he leads them to the Preidents Trophy. i beleive the first time in the Caps history?
but i'd have to agree that he may not be cut the same slack if they bow out early again this year.
i suppose it depends on who's available to replace him. the Caps are a cup contender, so they'd need the right coach to make sure they can do that extra mile. |
| tbar |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 09:11:57
Beans "However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? "
I'll agree if they get beat first Two rounds they are probablly going to have to let him go.
I find it funny however that no one was calling for his head (that I saw) in the playoffs last year. The only time I saw anyone getting hot and botherd about how he needs to go was on the loseing streak.
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 15:02:02
Well, I think you did answer some of those questions yourself. If he has a great relationship with the Ovechkin, that's valuable. If he is super passionate and a good leader, that is another reason. There is not denying that he has produced in the regular season. But that only goes so far.
This situation much like the SJ situation of the past. Super strong regular season team but always cracked in the playoffs. Wilson didn't really do the job in the playoffs so he gets punted and McLellan take them to the 3rd round.
Reg season means something and that have given BB his chances. However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? Also, I don't think anyone can argue that he has been out-coached in virtually every play-off series from Martin to Bylsma. Tortorella out-coached him but simply didn't have the horses to finish the job.
Playoff hockey is quick and effective changes to game plans based on the opponent. It is not the best team wins. It's the team that executes the best that wins. This is not a grind it out over 82 games doing the same thing and the most talented teams will come out ahead in the long run. This is 7 games, do or die, and if you can't change to match your opponent then you lose. Just like Washington couldn't do last year against Montreal. Just like Vancouver couldn't do against Chicago. Just like Anaheim, San Jose, and Detroit couldn't do against the sad-sack '06 Oilers who were a far inferior team that executed 3 different strategies against 3 different teams.
BB has not proven he's got the chops to alter game plans and have his team execute. Everyone talks about how Halak beat the Caps and no one talks about the defensive PK that completely shut down the Caps #1 PP or how Montreal completely owned the neutral zone both offensively and defensively. BB had nothing to combat that. He changed nothing and they lost. |
| tbar |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:14:58
Well if the playoffs are a good enough reason to fire him and he has not been fired give me a few reasons why?
|
| doublechamp7 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:14:25
Beans, I agree with you! Imsaying it doesn't matter how good you do in the regular season, if you cant do it in the playoffs then the coach should be gone!
Bring back the Jets! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:10:55
Doublechamp, what about 3 years in a row??? Then what??? People are completely missing that boat. Sure, some can argue that the Caps were beat by Halak last year. I would argue that it was Halak and Martin, but who cares. What about Washington barely beating the #7 seed Rangers and then losing to Pittsburgh in 08. Granted Pitt went on to the Cup but Washington was the higher seed with home ice advantage. Whavt about 07 when Washington lost to the #6 seed Philadelphia Flyers in the 1st round???
This is not a flash in the pan guys. 3 straight years of winning the division, once having the most points in the league in the regular season and one single playoff series win???
|
| doublechamp7 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:02:44
quote:
Originally posted by tbar
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
.
Is the Playoffs your only respnse this entire time? YUP!
If the playoffs are your only excuse for firing the guy, THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH IMO. If you have a team of all-stars win 82 games in the regular season then get swept by the 8th place team, is your coach diong enough? NO WAY!
Bring back the Jets! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:37:22
Ok, Tbar, what was the question. I have read your post three times now and I don't see what the relevant question is. You asked various questions but answered them yourself to try to prove your point.
You also seem to be missing the point that this is not a one time thing. Since Boudreau started coaching
09/10 - President's Trophy Winner - Lost in 1st round
08/09 - SW Division winner (108 pts) - Lost in 2nd round
07/08 - SW Division winner (94 pts) - Lost in 1st round
BB's record as coach of the Caps is effectivelly 181 wins and 114 losses(38 in OT). In the playoffs he is 13-15.
This is not a hot goalie, this is three straight years of losing to lower seeded teams. The one series they did win (against the NYR) they were the #2 seed in the East and they were on the ropes(down 3 games to one) against the #7 seed in the Rangers and needed to win the final 3 games. Their entire season came down to a goal by Fedorov with 5 minutes left in the 3rd period.
This is not a flash in the pan. BB has shown for three straight years to take one of the best teams into the playoffs and not perform. This is his last crack. Regardless of why he loses, if Washington does not make the East finals at least, he is toast.
|
| tbar |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:18:17
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What does me being or not being a GM have to do with me having an opinion?? I fail to appreciate the point you are making??
Finally, the GM and owner of the Caps have millions upon millions of dollars tied up in the Caps and winning is the return. The return on ticket sales, marketing, etc goes through the roof when a team wins.
When an owner fronts the cash and the GM builds a team that finishes in the top of their conference for what appears to now be 4 straight years and they do not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, who's fault is that??? Really, explain that to me.
Mark my words, in both Vancouver and Washington, if they don't get play past the 2nd round of the playoffs (at the least) then both coaches are gone.
I love it you dont answer the questions I had you just say "what does me not being a GM have anything to do with it?"
Is the Playoffs your only respnse this entire time? YUP! So you want me to call the Pens GM and let him know they should fire the coach because they ALSO LOST TO MTL??????
Come on guys have you ever played sports? Im sure you have regardless of the sport you must have at some point in your life been on the team that should win. I know I have and I have lost. Sometimes nothing goes your way even thow you dominate in every aspect of the game except in washingtons case barying the puck. How can BB be at fault for a HOT MTL Goaltender? |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:09:59
What does me being or not being a GM have to do with me having an opinion?? I fail to appreciate the point you are making??
Finally, the GM and owner of the Caps have millions upon millions of dollars tied up in the Caps and winning is the return. The return on ticket sales, marketing, etc goes through the roof when a team wins.
When an owner fronts the cash and the GM builds a team that finishes in the top of their conference for what appears to now be 4 straight years and they do not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, who's fault is that??? Really, explain that to me.
Mark my words, in both Vancouver and Washington, if they don't get play past the 2nd round of the playoffs (at the least) then both coaches are gone.
|
| tbar |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 11:54:27
Ok so I can’t point to a winning streak but you can point to a losing streak? You have not posted one good reason to fire him IMO. He hasn’t won in the playoffs is all you and Beans have said, and I’m pretty sure I argued that point just fine....so if the shoe fits...
Anyways here is why I would not fire BB....Because I am not the GM!
obviously all of us on here do not have the privilege to be a part of the Washington Capitals, so we have no real good idea what the room is like. We got a glimpse from the HBO 24/7 series and it happened to be during the bad stretch. People here were saying he lost the room. Is this fact or speculation? I’ll go with speculation. Sometimes as a good coach you have to walk a fine line with your players in good and bad streaks to get or keep them going. I’m confident he knows where that line is and he walked it.
His record in the Playoffs.....now I have said in previous posts why I believe they lost in the playoffs please refer to those.
"Is it based on you thinking the team wouldn't do any better with anyone else?" I have no idea how a different coach would do in this organization. I guess if BB gets fired sometime soon we will find out.
"Is it based on the feeling that mid-season change isn't good for the team?" Not at all I think we can look back to Pittsburg a few years ago when they won the Cup. They had a late coaching change and it did the team wonders.
"Is it based on Boudreau's very good relationship with Ovechkin?" I don’t hang out with either of them so I have no idea if this is fact.
"Is it based on the Caps getting beat by a less talented team each playoff run?" I don’t think they got so much beat bye a team or a coach as Beans would say but a goalie last year. My turn..so are you telling me the Pens should have fired there coach because they got beat by this same less talented team with an exceptionally hot goaltender? And remember he is 2 years removed from a cup championship and continues to win without his 2 best players.
At the end of the day I have no idea exactly what BB strengths and weaknesses are. From what I saw in the HBO series I would say he is a very passionate coach and he lives on the edge while at the rink. I also believe his team (based on what I saw) was just fine with that. He works hard scouting the opposition and talking with the members of his staff to give his team the best possible chance to win each night. and he wins allot of games. Beans would probably argue that a weakness is he didn’t change strategy against the habs last year. My question is why would you want to when you’re out playing them so badly. You have to keep going with it and hope the horse shoe falls out. Unfortunately for the Caps and Pens that didn’t happen till the Habs walked into Philly and lost.
And just to hammer this point I would like you guys to remember we are not GM's. Now as a GM you get to hire and FIRE you coaches as you see fit. Now I may not be certain but I am pretty sure every GM in the league knows what’s going on in the room, how the players feel about the coach etc. etc. I am confident that the Caps GM would have relieved BB of his duties if he saw the need. i mean Lord knows any and every GM in the league know a hell of a lot more about hockey then you, myself or any other person on this site.
|
| n/a |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 10:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this Slozo.....but i figured I would just let time tell the tail. So roughly 10 games left, 1 point back of Philly for tops in the ast on a 9 game win streak, I suppose BB is doing a crappy job?
Ah, I see. Your technique is to let enough time pass until you can point to a winning streak.
Priceless. And you were the one accusing us of piling on during the losing streak! You can't have it both ways . . .
Still waiting for you to answer my specific questions on why you would keep Boudreau.
And just to be clear, it's not that I cannot accept someone disagreeing with me - I am sure there are valid reasons for keeping Boudreau - but you just haven't stated anything beyond "they'll start winning soon, you'll see!" during a losing streak, and "they're winning!" during a winning streak.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 09:42:39
We will see in the playoffs what happens to Washington when Mr. Magoo is sitting behind the bench with that confused look on his face when his team gets punted 1st or 2nd round for the 4th straight season.
Any coach with a talented team can do well in the regular season. We will see what happens in the playoffs when coaching actually matter. |
| tbar |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 09:24:36
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this Slozo.....but i figured I would just let time tell the tail. So roughly 10 games left, 1 point back of Philly for tops in the ast on a 9 game win streak, I suppose BB is doing a crappy job? |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 10:58:23
quote:
Originally posted by tbar
mostly because he swears on TV!
I will actually answer your question yet Slozo if I can find some time in the near future.
No worries, Tbar . . . you already did. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| tbar |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 09:27:06
mostly because he swears on TV!
I will actually answer your question yet Slozo if I can find some time in the near future. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 08:06:46
So TBar, let's put you on the spot and see if you have any kind of real well thought-out opinion then:
Why would YOU keep the coach around with this team?
Is it just based on their record?
Is it based on the stylish and hip way that Boudreau swears on tv?
Is it based on Boudreau's very good relationship with Ovechkin?
Is it based on Boudreau getting to the playoffs the last two years?
Is it based on the Caps getting beat by a less talented team each playoff run?
Is it based on you thinking the team wouldn't do any better with anyone else?
Is it based on the feeling that mid-season change isn't good for the team?
Because before I answer your rhetorical, smart-alec question, I want you to answer mine.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 07:13:07
quote:
Originally posted by tbar
So now they have a 2 game winning streak......still calling for his head?
Yep. Absolutely. They did not look good against Ottawa at all and their 2 wins come against the 2nd worst team in the league and a team that has a tandem of junior B goalies.
Still calling for his head, absolutely. Mark my words, Caps will make the playoffs because they are far too talented not to but they will not make the conference finals. |
| tbar |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 07:03:17
So now they have a 2 game winning streak......still calling for his head? |
| MyTeamRules |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 17:23:39
Washington is not deserving of an 8 game losing streak, some adjustments have to be made. Just fire the Coach and be done with it.
”If you've only got one day to live, come see the Toronto Maple Leafs. It'll seem like forever. ” - Pat |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:18:54
The only argument I can see from those saying it's not the coach's fault, is that it's a long season, and yes, losing streaks do happen. Yes, Washington is a great team with a great record, even with an 8 game losing streak now.
But when a coach has lost the room, he needs to go. It happens to good coaches, mediocre coaches, and bad coaches.
And after watching that HBO special on the Pens/Caps, watching that rant in the dressing room by Boudreau where he says for them to "get some #$@%'in confidence, you losers!" and then the Caps let in a few more goals for a 7-0 loss . . . it says to me that the players are not listening.
If Boudreau stays, we'll see what excuses the Caps can come up with when they lose in the first or second round.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| top cheese |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 10:42:04
with a 7 game winless streak they are still in 2nd in the conference. I'm not saying there probably aren't better coaches out there then BB but...... Streaks happen. As I recall the leafs started out 4-0-1. This team has been at the top of the conference for years and there still technically there. I wouldn't jump the gun on firing BB yet. Lot's of hockey left to be played and the caps always make deadline deals. I just find it hard to fire a guy with a really good winning record. I'm actually banking they have a pretty good run this year. I said the exact same thing about philly last year around this time when they were in 10th spot. |
| Guest1747 |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 08:34:03
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
There is a coach out there with a proven track record with a number of different teams. He has coached the best offensive players and best defensive players, coached teams with various levels of talent, and ultimate has produced. He has a Cup, he has proven that almost every player he has buys into his system. He is always brought into International Competitions on some level of the coaching staff.
Ken Hitchcock is sitting around getting moldy. He would be brilliant in the environment in Washington.
Mark my words, either before the end of this season or through the summer, Hitchcock will be coaching in either Washington or Vancouver. Both teams with loads of talent that should be competing for the Cup who have been outcoached in the past 2 playoff seasons.
Your right! he is getting moldy.. because he can't keep a job. See, there is a reason people get "moldy" and the Washington players need to figuere thigs out themselves.
This isn't basketball, where you make your plays in 24 seconds and have tons of time to figuere out what your going to do. Hockey is a much more simpler sport which involves fast pace and quick reactionsand washingtons reaction time has just been off this past while. You can't make plays for many of the scoring that you see. The players don't seem to get any blame for this. But THEY need to step up and play with intensity, no more of Ovechkins straight back skating. He is my hero but frick does that guy know how to slack off, espicially in this givin situation. You wouldn't see crosby doddling around with his back at a 90 degree angle, and i don't even really like Crosby.. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/15/2010 : 16:40:30
There is a coach out there with a proven track record with a number of different teams. He has coached the best offensive players and best defensive players, coached teams with various levels of talent, and ultimate has produced. He has a Cup, he has proven that almost every player he has buys into his system. He is always brought into International Competitions on some level of the coaching staff.
Ken Hitchcock is sitting around getting moldy. He would be brilliant in the environment in Washington.
Mark my words, either before the end of this season or through the summer, Hitchcock will be coaching in either Washington or Vancouver. Both teams with loads of talent that should be competing for the Cup who have been outcoached in the past 2 playoff seasons.
|
| Mario 66 |
Posted - 12/15/2010 : 15:51:15
Everyone is quick to jump at the fact the caps dont have any D, They have young talent with Alzner, Green & Carlson & stable solid veterans erksine, Poti & now Scott Hannan seems to me like they have a solid d core so i fail to see this arguement
If you wanted to argue that their overall defensive system is flawed then you reach the core of the caps problems. The last three yrs the southeast divisions has been simply anemic. All teams with the exception of the caps had been battling for either the final playoff spot or first pick in the draft. This in turn gave the caps an easy 40 points the last couple of yrs thus making them look like a dominant team and hiding their flaws. This yr the division has returned to respectible and thus the caps are not so dynamic.
Offensively they have dynamic talent however they also have many defensive liabilities in their forward group. They have a run and gun style of play with the hope that they will outscore people everynight. With Ovechkin & Semin on the same line their is almost always a guarntee that when they lose the puck the other team will break the other way on an odd man rush. D cannot be blamed when you have players who refuse to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team.
Washington will never be anything more then a good regular season team until they develop a defensive scheme that allows them to transition with speed as oppose their current style which is a score at all cost with no forwards in sight in the defensive zone.
Unless Scotty Bowman is coming out of retirement or their is a coach out their with the fire of the late great Pat Burns who is willing to take the chance of benching ovechkin & pissing him off for his refusal to back check or pick up a man then washington will always be super talented team with the tag "What could of been" next to their team.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
| TheRC |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 21:25:58
I'll agree that Washington could use a new coach, but even on their slump they are high enough up in the stangings that Boudreau's job is safe for a while. It would take another couple weeks of constant losing, almost to the point of Washington falling out of a playoff spot, before I'd expect anything. Replacing the coach just isn't something you do mid-season to a team in playoff position. After the playoffs if the Capitals burn out in the first round or early in the second, *especially* if they only finish 6th or 7th in the East in the regular season, then I'd expect it.
As for the debate over the Montreal series, I'll admit that Halak turned in the performance of the lifetime, and without him Montreal stood no chance, but I'll still fault Boudreau for the loss. Montreal got better as the series went on, while Washington did not. As a coach in a playoff series, after one close loss, you don't worry. After two, you start to think about what you can change, and after three, even if you haven't been losing by much, you need to make adjustments. This isn't regular season where you play a different team every night. No coach should ever go in to a game 7 saying "we're just going to play our system." (Well, maybe say it for the point of the media, but don't actually do it!)
Point is, by the end of a playoff series the other team KNOWS your system, and you know theirs. The win is going to go to the coach who gets his team to expliot the gaps in the other team's game, and plug the holes in their own, it's as simple as that. Halak played great, I won't deny that, but he wasn't unstoppable. Washington's shots were good shots, but not against a Montreal team that had adjusted their style to defend against them. Washington couldn't make any adjustments of their own, and they lost. Whose job is it to adjust? The coach.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 20:49:43
quote:
Originally posted by Guest1791
washingtons underachieved 2 straight years?
THE same washington capitals who won the presidents trophy last year? haha under achieved.. i woud call there playoff last year "unlucky" because they excuted triple the amount of scoring chances that montreal did. Halak just gained temporary super powers. They aren't under achievers, just simply unexperienced in playoffs. it's only been 2 years of good playoff positions, 3rd times a charm.
Hmm, I guess finishing 1st in the SW for 3 straight years, once finishing 1st in the NHL and not being able to get out of the conference semi's must be achieving.
If you want a comparison talent to talent, take a look at Detroit. Similar performance in the regular season in the same time period, but a Cup, a Finals, and the conference semis.
What's the difference??? Could it be coaching??? |
| Guest1791 |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 20:11:15
washingtons underachieved 2 straight years?
THE same washington capitals who won the presidents trophy last year? haha under achieved.. i woud call there playoff last year "unlucky" because they excuted triple the amount of scoring chances that montreal did. Halak just gained temporary super powers. They aren't under achievers, just simply unexperienced in playoffs. it's only been 2 years of good playoff positions, 3rd times a charm. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 14:17:39
Well, it's obvious that you and I watch a very different game. I watched each of the series you speak of and you are correct in that each time the goalie carried a big load. However, and specifically with the Edmonton run, Roloson was great but not even remotely close to the only reason that team did what they did. MacTavish was brilliant in his approach. He played Detroit, San Jose, and Anaheim with three distinct systems that were very effective against their opponents. He ran into his match in Peter Laviolette. Magically, Laviolette took an 8th place team to the finals last year!
Absolutely, 100% that if you take either Roloson or MacTavish out of that playoff run and the Oilers were not nearly as successful. It was not all Roloson. Same as last season in Montreal. People fail to remember that Montreal did not just beat Washington, but also Pittsburgh. It was only when they ran into a very deep and well coached team (Laviolette) in Philly when Martin met his match.
Anyone who thinks that coaching does not have a significant impact on the outcome of the playoffs is simply not paying attention. The players must execute on the coaches plan. The coach must produce a plan that will beat the opposition. In the case of Washington today, I don't think the players are executing nor do I think the coach has a sniff today. Last season, the players were will and there but the coach didn't switch it up.
Consider this, Nashville and Buffalo are competitive every single season. Every year those two teams find a way to fight to the playoffs when they have no business being there if you look at their talent pool. How does that happen?? Coaching.
Eventually, a great team with a great coach will run into a better team with a better coach. Case in point, last year's Finals. One could argue that Chicago was even or slightly lesser talent wise than Philly. However, Quinnville is the consensus top coach in the game today. A great team (for example Washington last year) will often be bested by a lesser team(Montreal) if the lesser team has a far superior coach (Martin).
Even look at these seasons so far. Montreal has the same number of wins as Washington and one few point in 2 fewer games. No one is going to say that Montreal's team is more talented than Washington. Never. How does that happen???
Coaching. |
| tbar |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 13:15:15
Beans "And it's obvious that people are missing the point being made by BB in last year's playoffs. It's not that they lost, it's that he did nothing to change the system. When a good coach runs into a system that he is not beating, he must change his structure to combat the opposition. Another example of this was the Oilers Cup run in 2006. Edmonton went that entire season playing a specific brand of defense. Primarily, prevent in their own end, gain control and then move out. However, in the playoffs, MacTavish rolled out a trap. What?? A trap??? By the time Babcock figured it out, it was too late. But he did change his system to fight it. "
I have to disagree with that statement.
You really think Babcock didn’t realize the Oilers were trapping? This explains allot. He knew it and he beat it, his team just couldn’t finish in that series.
Why should BB have changed his "system" they out played Montreal so bad it was hard to watch. They literally had 15 GOOD if not GREAT scoring chances each game they lost. They just could not bury the biscuit. THEY GOT BEAT BY HALAK, NOT MONTREALS COACH.
You mention the Oilers cup run Beans.....I believe it was a guy named Roloson who put the team on his back and took them to within inches of the Cup.
Anyone remember Giguere throwin the Mighty Ducks on his back and taking them to the finals only to lose to the Devils? You remember the first round? it was Detroit Vs. Anaheim and Scotty was still coaching back then if I’m not mistaken. Probably one of the best all time but at the end of the day he couldn’t go score a goal and neither can BB.
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| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 12:50:48
This is not one season or one off season. Washington has underacheived for 2 straight seasons and now are headed for a 3rd.
And it's obvious that people are missing the point being made by BB in last year's playoffs. It's not that they lost, it's that he did nothing to change the system. When a good coach runs into a system that he is not beating, he must change his structure to combat the opposition. Another example of this was the Oilers Cup run in 2006. Edmonton went that entire season playing a specific brand of defense. Primarily, prevent in their own end, gain control and then move out. However, in the playoffs, MacTavish rolled out a trap. What?? A trap??? By the time Babcock figured it out, it was too late. But he did change his system to fight it.
Boudreau was out coached last year, he was out coached the year before, and he is currently proving his coaching abilities. Teams of Washington's caliber should never get shut out 4 times in 13 games. But if it does happen, it is 100% up to the coach to get them back on track.
To the point of Washington being 8th in the NHL in PP. Why, when the line up for the PP is completely unchanged, did Washington drop from #1 in the NHL last year to 8th this year??? Same players right??? Same coach right??? Players execute on a coaches plan. Obviously the NHL teams have wised up to Washington's PP from last season and BB has not changed anything. So they are getting defended better.
Just another example of a far below average coach being supported by a brilliant team.
I go by to my orginal statement. The comparison is never how well a team is performing in the standings. It's a comparison to how they play against their potential. Washington has a potential of so much more.......... |
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Posted - 12/14/2010 : 09:25:23
So tell me something Slozo.....Washington is in a bad slump now correct? has been for a good chunk of games correct? then why the hell is the PP still number 8 if they dont know what they are doing? And honestly by the end of the year you know damb well it will be in the top 5 if not 3 with BB behind the bench.
Note: I dont think BB is the best coach but I also dont think he is the reason they are having problems as of late...or last year against Montreal. If that were the case he would be gone simple as that. (guess what guys people get paid to decide who coaches the team he picks). |
| Guest1747 |
Posted - 12/14/2010 : 08:36:12
You want to know why washington used the same system every game against montreal? because they fired 40+ shots at halak every game. those weren't just typical shots, they were legit scoring chances. They ran into a goalie (Halak) who was on his head lighting it up. 95% of the time, a goalie can't do that for 6 games. |
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