| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 15:43:32
What Incident do you think is worse?
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 11:33:26
By far the Simon high stick was worse. When McSorely hit Brashear, he wasn't hurt. He went down and laid there to get a major penalty called. If his helmet hadn't popped off his giant mellon, it would not have even looked that bad. Same as Bertuzzi - it was worth a suspension, but I've seen worse in old-timer hockey. It was the pile after that caused the problem with Moore (which explains why the lawsuit has gone nowhere).
Simon, on the other hand, went for the face. There's a huge difference between hitting someone on the back of the helmet and slashing someone in the face. Yes, it was probably a reaction and not pre-meditated, but man, that could have been deadly.
The worst I've ever seen never even gets mentioned anymore - Dave Brown when he cross-checked Thomas Sandstrom in the face back in the early 90's. He was suspended for a handful of games, but in today's NHL he would have gotten a year for it - garanteed.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Gretz |
| ultimatetitman |
Posted - 03/19/2007 : 12:25:18
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
I just have one more question about suspension (it's probably stupid but hey)
If an AHL player gets called up to play a game in the NHL, do something wrong and get suspended for a couple of games. Can he be send back down to the AHL and ply there or does is suspension is affective in both the NHL and AHL
Yes, their suspension would apply to them in the AHL, as per an AHL/HNL agreement.
Technically, he could play in another league, BUT that league has the discretion of allowing him to play or not play. An example would be Bertuzzi (although he was not a call up from the AHL). He could not play for Manitoba because of his NHL suspension, and all European leagues chose to honour the NHL suspension thus preventing him from playing over there during the lock out. |
| dummy101 |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 17:02:10
Sticks are used as weapons in every game of NHL hockey that is played,not always intentionally to the face,but to other parts of the body.Probably the worst use of a stick I have seen this year was the last Mont,Buff game when Vanek was going to score in an empty net with secs left and Sourey used the point of his stick and pounded his kidneys and back 5 or 6 times from the blue line in.You could see the pain on his face and the refs did nothing.
And as I said Simon got what he deserved. |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 16:43:52
Thats all good, but nobody deserves to have a stick used as a weapon against them.
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
| dummy101 |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 16:39:14
"Chris did it to a player that nobody even klnows about."this is a perfect example of most people here.If you watched a few games instead of listening to the hype you would come to realize that these things are a product of hits from behind, elbows to the head,etc.,that Ryan Hollweg(that's his name)has been carrying out all season,and I mean every game he has at least 10 shifts in.His #'s are 2pts and 119pim.
Having said that,I think what Simon did was way out of line and he got what he deserved.His hit was worse looking than Mcsorley's but to say it was a baseball swing,come on,maybe an unathletic (sp) girl or nerdy guy would swing with his hands 2 ft apart on a bat.It was a good thing it wasn't a baseball swing or he'd of killed him.That is what made it bad,he knew what he was doing to some extent,but just got fed up with this guys(and others like him) cheap shots and lost it.
Hollweg tried to kill Malone the next game against Pitt by running him into the boards,and their announcers said the same thing I said,Simon was dead wrong but something has got to be done about this guy because he's been doing that all year to keep his spot.
Remind you of anyone,a guy named Moore,possibly! |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 13:36:28
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
I just have one more question about suspension (it's probably stupid but hey)
If an AHL player gets called up to play a game in the NHL, do something wrong and get suspended for a couple of games. Can he be send back down to the AHL and ply there or does is suspension is affective in both the NHL and AHL
Sorry, my question might not be that clear but I hope you’ll understand it.
Go leafs Go by the way
Im pretty sure it would he would be suspended in both leugues, other wise thats pretty cheap. I play Lacrosse and last year I was called up to play a few of my Bros intermiedate games (I was Midget) in a tournament, in my bros teams last game I got into a fight in the last 10 min. witch is an automatic 1 game suspension and i want allowed to play in the first game of my teams playoffs because of the suspension, i no the NHL is not the same as minor Lax or Sr, cause intermiediate is considered that. but im pretty sure the NHL would handle its suspensions the same way.
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
| Buddyno2000 |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 13:02:15
I just have one more question about suspension (it's probably stupid but hey)
If an AHL player gets called up to play a game in the NHL, do something wrong and get suspended for a couple of games. Can he be send back down to the AHL and ply there or does is suspension is affective in both the NHL and AHL
Sorry, my question might not be that clear but I hope you’ll understand it.
Go leafs Go by the way |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 17:16:49
quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
he wouldnt, I believe you have to dress in the playoffs to have your name on it
CANUCKS RULE!!!
I did a quick search. Not the most reliable sources, but at least some info that backs up what i thought was the case. However do note, that it does alter my prevous post a bit. The player has to play 41 regular season games with the club, and still be with the club! Significant difference..
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/stanleycupbunker/f/stanley_cup_nam.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Cup
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| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 16:59:43
he wouldnt, I believe you have to dress in the playoffs to have your name on it
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 16:43:44
Would he really? That's weird. I mean theoretically it's reasonable but it just seems so strange. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 16:20:42
quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
I was wondering the other day, what if the Islander would end up wining the cup (not that I believe they have a chance) would Simon have is name on the cup even if he was serving a suspension.
Anyone know if a situation like this one had ever occurred in the past
It's kind of funny how the rule works, but yes, he would.
I don't actually agree with the rule, but I believe that a player gets their name engraved on the cup if either:
(a) They played in at least 1 game of the Stanley Cup Finals
(b) They played in at least 41 games in the regular season for the Cup winners
Kind of odd eh? If Tampa Bay wins the cup this year, Chicago's Nikita Alexeev still gets his name on the cup.... |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 16:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
I was wondering the other day, what if the Islander would end up wining the cup (not that I believe they have a chance) would Simon have is name on the cup even if he was serving a suspension.
Anyone know if a situation like this one had ever occurred in the past
It's kind of funny how the rule works, but yes, he would. |
| Buddyno2000 |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 14:44:37
I was wondering the other day, what if the Islander would end up wining the cup (not that I believe they have a chance) would Simon have is name on the cup even if he was serving a suspension.
Anyone know if a situation like this one had ever occurred in the past
Go leafs Go by the way |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 18:38:23
quote:
Originally posted by STobin9
I think the Chris Simon situation is worse because Marty Mcsorley did it to another tough player( Donald Brashear) and Chris did it to a player that nobody even klnows about.
What does it matter who the offence was done two?
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
| STobin9 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 10:17:06
I think the Chris Simon situation is worse because Marty Mcsorley did it to another tough player( Donald Brashear) and Chris did it to a player that nobody even klnows about. |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 18:08:10
quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
Marginally I say Simon was the worst.
I was at the McSorley game, and he had been trying to goad Brashear into a fight for several minutes, and Brash kept turning his back on his and skated away.
As much as I think McSorley is a complete Neanderthal for what he did, I truly believe that he was trying only to smack Brash up along side the head, hoping to get him pissed off enough to fight. It was stupid and careless, but I really don't think it was a deliberate intent to injure Brashear as badly as he did.
i gotta say i completly agree with that I never thought it was as bad as it turned out to be.
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| Saku Steen |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 15:10:43
quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
Marginally I say Simon was the worst.
I was at the McSorley game, and he had been trying to goad Brashear into a fight for several minutes, and Brash kept turning his back on his and skated away.
As much as I think McSorley is a complete Neanderthal for what he did, I truly believe that he was trying only to smack Brash up along side the head, hoping to get him pissed off enough to fight. It was stupid and careless, but I really don't think it was a deliberate intent to injure Brashear as badly as he did.
That must have been some game to be at! |
| ultimatetitman |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:01:23
Marginally I say Simon was the worst.
I was at the McSorley game, and he had been trying to goad Brashear into a fight for several minutes, and Brash kept turning his back on his and skated away.
As much as I think McSorley is a complete Neanderthal for what he did, I truly believe that he was trying only to smack Brash up along side the head, hoping to get him pissed off enough to fight. It was stupid and careless, but I really don't think it was a deliberate intent to injure Brashear as badly as he did.
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| Guest5728 |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 13:45:53
quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
quote:
Originally posted by PENSFAN8771
1/2 facts here and 1/2 facts there, don't make a truth.
What are the half facts in that statement?
And 0776, watch the replay, if Bertuzzi had let go of Moore and just let him fall to the ice, his head would have hit at a much different angle than it did. Bertuzzi's hand was forcing his chin into his chest as they fell, thus causing Moore's head to hit well before the rest of his body causing the major injury. |
| the hockey guy |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 12:24:01
They were both very stupid choices and you can see that all simon had in his eyes was intent to injure. he looked over and swung. This is hockey not baseball. the poll shows that this incidents are equal in stupidity
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| leigh |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 12:14:44
Simon's was the biggest suspension ever levied, for one of the worst infractions ever. I think it was perfect.
To me it was worse than McSorely's. McSorely clearly just wanted to get Brashear's attention so they could fight. He didn't swing nearly as hard. It just happened to catch Donald the wrong way and down he went. Brashear then smacked his head a couple times on the ice. McSorely got 23 games (at the end of his career mind you). Fair and just. (except for the legal action afterward)
Simon's was clearly a baseball swing to the face. Definitely intent to injure. It was however in the heat of the moment so that lightens the penalty somewhat. And therefore 25 games seems appropriate to me. (I hope the law stays out of it)
Still, I think the Domi elbow on Neidermeyer was worse than both the items listed in the poll and way worse than the Bertuzzi/Moore incident. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:52:23
I think the NHL needs to think a bit more about what could have happened, not what the result was. They are not doing anything to deter situations from happening, only punishing them after they happen. What will happen next time someone gets chopped in the head with a stick?? You all know there will be a next time. What if a guy gets it in the wrong spot and dies right there on the ice. What will the NHL do then?? The NHL will be totally responsible. Their actions are punishing the person responsible(which is important) but doing nothing to deter it from happening again.
Excuse me while I climb down from my soap box. |
| The_only_Odelein_fan |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:28:14
If Simon cannot handle his stick like a man, he doesnt deserve a stick.
Lyle Odelein is a god! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:21:41
Both were gross and both have no business in the game. I still think both should have been kicked out of the NHL forever. What's 25 games to Simon?? What's $80,000 for a guy making $1 million/year??
If the fella he hit would have sustained some kind of permenant injury, then what?? This is Simon's 6th suspension, 3rd because of stick work. It's not a matter of if this guy does something again, it's when.
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| Guest0776 |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:20:07
Bertuzzi's was nothing at all similar. Bert did stalk Moore and then sucker punch him.. but that happen all the time. The problem with the Bert incident is that there was a huge dogpile and unfortunately Moore got really hurt.
There is a big difference between that and swinging a weapon (stick) intentionally at someone.
[/quote]
It wasn't just the sucker punch that was the cheap part of what Bertuzzi did. If Bertuzzi had just punched Moore in the back of the head, we wouldn't even remember the incident and Moore would be still capable of playing in the NHL. The worst part of it is how Bertuzzi drove Moore's head into the ice. He actually controlled the impact of that injury with the ice. People get punched all the time and don't fracture 3 vertebrae and stretch nerve tissue. Goalies also have players fall on them all the time without sustaining the injuries Moore did. The main injury was driving his head into the ice. He had nights to consider those actions and was likely encouraged by others to "stand up" for his captain. Marc Crawford stood on the bench the whole time with a smart little smirk on his face refusing to look toward the opposing bench. I don't care if you are from the beautiful city of Vancouver and want to stand by something your team did as not so bad. Bertuzzi is the biggest disgrace to the game today and his 1-2 punch (rather literally) make his action the worst. I will never cheer for Team Canada again (as I did as a child) after Team USA is eliminated because they chose that thug to represent their country. If I was Canadian, I would be ashamed (as several National Post articles expressed when he was named to the team). Canucks fans should stop defending him and remember they are lucky to no longer have Bertuzzi roaming their city's streets during the season. As for the city of Detroit, they have enough thugs in their city, they didn't need another . . and I'm not refering to any sports team when I say that.
dude Bertuzzi did not control the force of moores face going into the ice ,you people are on crack, the reason was because of the dogpile. and i hate the canucks so i'm not defending. this s*** with the stickes can cause way worse injuries then a punch to the back of the head. he only was hurt seriously because everybody decided that it would make sense to jump on top and put way to much pressure on steve moore's neck. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 10:13:52
Guys like Canucks Man said (especially that he started the thread): He wants your opinions about the McSorley slash and the Simon slash. If you want to bash Bertuzzi, there are many other places to do it. Please respect what CM wanted to discuss and try to stay more on topic please. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 23:21:45
quote:
Originally posted by PENSFAN8771
1/2 facts here and 1/2 facts there, don't make a truth. |
| PENSFAN8771 |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 21:05:51
[/quote]
Bertuzzi's was nothing at all similar. Bert did stalk Moore and then sucker punch him.. but that happen all the time. The problem with the Bert incident is that there was a huge dogpile and unfortunately Moore got really hurt.
There is a big difference between that and swinging a weapon (stick) intentionally at someone.
[/quote]
It wasn't just the sucker punch that was the cheap part of what Bertuzzi did. If Bertuzzi had just punched Moore in the back of the head, we wouldn't even remember the incident and Moore would be still capable of playing in the NHL. The worst part of it is how Bertuzzi drove Moore's head into the ice. He actually controlled the impact of that injury with the ice. People get punched all the time and don't fracture 3 vertebrae and stretch nerve tissue. Goalies also have players fall on them all the time without sustaining the injuries Moore did. The main injury was driving his head into the ice. He had nights to consider those actions and was likely encouraged by others to "stand up" for his captain. Marc Crawford stood on the bench the whole time with a smart little smirk on his face refusing to look toward the opposing bench. I don't care if you are from the beautiful city of Vancouver and want to stand by something your team did as not so bad. Bertuzzi is the biggest disgrace to the game today and his 1-2 punch (rather literally) make his action the worst. I will never cheer for Team Canada again (as I did as a child) after Team USA is eliminated because they chose that thug to represent their country. If I was Canadian, I would be ashamed (as several National Post articles expressed when he was named to the team). Canucks fans should stop defending him and remember they are lucky to no longer have Bertuzzi roaming their city's streets during the season. As for the city of Detroit, they have enough thugs in their city, they didn't need another . . and I'm not refering to any sports team when I say that. |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 21:04:48
Guys there are plenty of threads to bash bertuzzi and i dont want to take apart in them I was asking your opinions on the chris simon and marty mcsorley incidents and dont want to turn this into a beat up on bert forum
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 20:45:02
If I'm really, really pissed at someone, should I jump him, and punch him in the head, or should I smack him in the face with a hockey stick? Obviously neither one is a rational reaction, but you gotta consider the consequences. What Bertuzzi did could happen several times a year w/ no major injury occurring. Slash you in the face with a hockeystick? I don't hate anyone that much. |
| Buddyno2000 |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 19:56:34
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
[quote]Originally posted by Buddyno2000
Simon because he went for his face but i would still have to say the Bertuzzi one because he knew what he was gonna do a long time before he actualy did but Simon did it ou off spite, its still not a reason do.cause they were all nasty cheap shot to me, even then they should never go to court with these.
Go leafs Go by the way
He did it out of spite? If that's the way you think, I don't wanna spite you, man.
Sorry it might not have been the best word used there, but what I meant is that he didn’t think about it he just did it even if he used his stick as a weapon I still think that the Bertuzzi one was worst than any other I ever saw
Go leafs Go by the way |
| The_only_Odelein_fan |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 19:51:33
Hockey Gloves can be a weapon to if you punch someone hard enough like Bertuzzi did.
Lyle Odelein is a god! |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 19:44:47
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
Simon because he went for his face but i would still have to say the Bertuzzi one because he knew what he was gonna do a long time before he actualy did but Simon did it ou off spite, its still not a reason do.cause they were all nasty cheap shot to me, even then they should never go to court with these.
Go leafs Go by the way
Bertuzzi's was nothing at all similar. Bert did stalk Moore and then sucker punch him.. but that happen all the time. The problem with the Bert incident is that there was a huge dogpile and unfortunately Moore got really hurt.
There is a big difference between that and swinging a weapon (stick) intentionally at someone. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 19:40:29
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
Simon because he went for his face but i would still have to say the Bertuzzi one because he knew what he was gonna do a long time before he actualy did but Simon did it ou off spite, its still not a reason do.cause they were all nasty cheap shot to me, even then they should never go to court with these.
Go leafs Go by the way
He did it out of spite? If that's the way you think, I don't wanna spite you, man. |
| Buddyno2000 |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 19:23:03
Simon because he went for his face but i would still have to say the Bertuzzi one because he knew what he was gonna do a long time before he actualy did but Simon did it ou off spite, its still not a reason do.cause they were all nasty cheap shot to me, even then they should never go to court with these.
Go leafs Go by the way |
| ryschevy1 |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 17:52:08
I voted for Simon b/c he went for the face
GO OIL!!! YA!!! |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 17:47:35
You have to think to yourself, "Would I ever be in a situation where I would even think of hammering a hockey stick into someone's face?" If your answer is 'YES', then you should realize that the conseequences
might affect you a litle bit more than the harm you have caused. |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 17:06:51
Ya, but I think it has to be Simon's. He hit the guy in the face, and that could have been alot worse. When McSorley hit Brasher he hit the helmet and Brasher looked as if he fell because he slipped and not because of the hit (It is still bad, don't get me wrong).
I think what Bertuzzi did to Steve Moore is worse, however, because Bertuzzi's was pre-planned and Simon did it in the heat of the moment.
Long Live Leafs Nation!! |
| semin-rules |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 15:53:37
There should be " They were equally bad" as an option because I think that they were both bad in their different ways
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~ |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 15:49:24
they were equally bad, so no vote.
Both guys looked for their target, prepared, and launched an attack. |
