| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Patchy |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 22:25:31
Who should be this year's Most Valuable Player and why?
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
| 26 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest2891 |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 12:22:24
I think we need to go back to Roberto Luongo for a minute.
The reason he deserves the nomination and rightfully the crown for this year's MVP is that he proved directly to us in one season what would happen if he was not elevating his game to the point that he has.
For example. The Canucks, while Luongo's GAA and Save % was good but not great, managed to fall 2 games below .500. This was not even good enough for a place in the playoffs. They sat 5 points below 8th at this point. After his...shall we call it...slump, Luongo stepped up his game. So what has happened since Luongo stepped up his game? The Canucks have gone 25-6-4 and are atop their division sitting in 3rd in the Conference. Not only that, but Luongo has lost but 2 games on the road since this stretch began.
Now I think it's safe to say that he has proven to everybody that without Luongo, Vancouver would probably be out of a playoff position nevermind 3rd in the entire conference. Thus making him the prime candidate for MVP. |
| admin |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 10:42:55
Martin Brodeur is and has been the best player in the NHL for years. In my opinion he is an MVP candidate every year. The thing about the NHL is that they like to spread awards around. " He won it last year so he cant win it again" mentality. That is one of its many faults. Look at the NBA. They are not afraid to keep awarding the MVP to Steve Nash. They celebrate their stars much better than the NHL.
I think that Brodeur should win it but Crosby will end up the leagues MVP. If Roberto Luongo is not the 3rd nominee, than we will finally see proof of an east coast bias.
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| Guest6127 |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 10:28:13
Crosby will win it over the 2 Vezina hopefuls (Brodeur and Luongo). |
| BigShow |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 10:12:15
From what i've read, the voters are heavily weighted to the east coast. Makes sense though demographically. There are more papers, and bigger out east. |
| PENSFAN8771 |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 09:35:08
Does anyone know how the votes are distributed geographically? I know there is often a good deal of talk about this with regards to Heisman voting, but I never hear much of it about other sports awards. I think Luongo may have a better chance if a lot of sports writers in western cities have votes because they lack exposure to Brodeur or Crosby or Hossa, who may split votes among eastern voters. |
| jbraiter |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 07:22:08
Brodour has been doing well, did anybody see the hokey news article when it said " the devils would be right beside the flyers in the standings if it wasnt for brodour" |
| BigShow |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 07:14:22
Ok, so first, umm, oops. Living in the past, Hasek obviously doesn't play for Ottawa anymore. Playing in Detroit he has as many easy in division games as Brodeur (vs Colombus/Chicago/St.Louis).
In other news, i actually quite like Crosby. I dislike how the media makes it seem like he is far and removed from other forwards, a la Gretzky or Lemiuex. At the same time, i dislike how the media plays him up as the second coming (which he may very well be) and then turns around and stomps on the Kid in the next sentence.
No one likes to see a champion. Everyone wants to see the flaws. That's another reason i pick him to miss the MVP. The media, who does the voting, seems to have dipped into the hateraid when they watch Sid.
All that said, i still think Hossa has done more for his team. When Hossa was at his best during the first half, he lead the league in goals and points. Kovalchuk was slumping, Kozlov came out of nowhere as a refreshed force (Like Conroy did playing with Iginla). When the team wasn't playing particularly well, they had the division title, and Hossa lead the league. Hossa slumped, Kovalchuk picked up the slack offensively and the team fell off the division title. Now Hossa is backon his game offensively, and they are back fighting for the division (Though it is a whole different team now). When he is on his game, the team rolls along, when he stumbles the team stumbles, even though others picked up the goal scoring slack.
I'm not a big fan of +/- in general. People throw it around, and generally don't use it properly. As a measure of a player's defensive play in comparison to his teammates, it has uses. But when used to compare from one team to another it is pretty useless.
That said Hossa is +20, the next best forward on the team is Slater/Kozlov, both +8 (Metropolit was +9 when he was traded). Kovalchuk is -4. Crosby is +7, second on his team behind Staal +14, and just ahead of Malone at +6. Hossa not only leads his team offensively, he leads them defensively.
Hossa plays all situations. He plays more ice time overall, on a deeper team, that could afford to play him less. If Crosby was dragging his team into the playoffs solo, (which is how people like to make it sound), he would be playing 26 minutes, like Kariya did the first few years with the Ducks.
Don't tell me they can afford to not play their stars shorthanded. Playing all situations is what seperates the one dimensional Mogilnys, Kovalchuks and Selannes from the Kariyas, Bondras and Lemiuexs. Tampa could afford to not play Lecavalier shorthanded - they have Tim Taylor, an amazing faceoff man and gritty, lunchpail guy. But they choose to have their stars are out there on the PK. Same for Atlanta, they could be playing Kozlov with Belanger, or Holik or Mellanby or Dupuis, they all have signifigant PK experience. But they choose not to, because their star is able to lead them regardless of the manpower situation.
Crosby will win several MVPs during his career. He will amass a startling collection of hardware. But this year he won't win the Hart Memorial, because he isn't the player most valuable to his team. He isn't even the forward most valuable to his team.
The nominations will go to Brodeur, Luongo and Crosby. The voting will place them in the same order. |
| Novie |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 05:09:18
Crosby shoudn't get a nomination? I think we have some new haters...
Crosby will win...get used to the idea now because he's clearing space off the mantle for a few more of these bad boys!
I pick Brodeur for the 'other MVP'...most valuable as chosen by the players...is it the Lester B Patrick?
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
| Saku Steen |
Posted - 03/14/2007 : 05:03:39
I think Crosby will because he makes everyone better. Saku Koivu will be the runner up and Steen will be nominated. At least I hope! |
| PENSFAN8771 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 22:19:40
Even as a Penguins fan, I think that Brodeur has been more valuable to his team the whole season. Even with Crosby slumping, the Pens have been picking up wins lately with a good deal of offensive production. Brodeur has gone out night in and night out and given his team a chance to win virtually every time. That being said, I think Crosby really carried the team through some of the rougher points in the season and pulled them out of major slumps. When guys have been moved onto his line, their production has multiplied. Sid should get a nomination for all this work, but Brodeur's season-long consistency has to make him the favorite. If Sid manages to lead the Penguins past NJ in these last couple weeks of the season though, that would make a profound argument for his candidacy. |
| framer87 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 17:52:35
quote:
That's not even getting into Brodeur having a few easy in division games vs Philly, while Hasek's weakest in division opponent is Boston.
How is Boston in the same division as Hasek? There in completely different conferences |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 17:26:51
The devils would not be doing good without Brodeur he has definately kept them in for every game he plays. Honourable mention to Rod Brind'Amour he has done everything for the Carolina Hurricanes. He gets so much ice time at an old age takes so much face offs hes been the best player for the canes this year. |
| STobin9 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 16:13:15
big show is definetely right. Crosby has pretty much carried the penguins. hes 7 points ahead of the next player in the scoring race, and whatever line hes on, he makes it so much better. |
| admin |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 16:08:03
quote:
Originally posted by BigShow
[quote="beans15"]Brodeur or Luongo are the "smart" choices, but don't be surprised if it goes to Sid the Kid. Sid has be in on nearly 50% of the goals Pitt has scored and he is the "new face" of the league.
Be prepared to the Kid.
Just for comparison sake, Sid is in on 43% of his team's goals, Vinny+Marty both 42%, Hossa 41%. Looking at some of the teams that don't score as much, Savard is in on 44.4%, Ovehkin 41%, Thornton 42%, Jagr 40%. Like i said in my previous post, Sid is surrounded by a good team. He is producing at a great pace, but not by any means is he in a league of his own.
Sid is +9, with 100 points, 50 on the PP. So he has been on the ice for 41 GA even strength or SH. Hossa is +20, has 90 points, 38 on the PP. So he has been on the ice for 32GA even strength or SH. Hossa is 5/8 on the shootout, Crosby is 4/13. The shootout is a huge factor in today's game, while most stars don't seem to be great at it, it is one more jewel in Hossa's hat. Hossa is outshooting Crosby 302 to 204.
Hossa averages a minute more ice time a game. Hossa has 3 SH goals, which are often demoralizing and is on his team's first PK unit. Crosby isn't trusted to play shorthanded. The greats almost all end up playing on the PK, it shows a lot of their character. A few that played signifigant PK time in their prime: Jagr, Bondra, Federov, Francis, Lemiuex, Kariya, Gretzky. And current stars that play on the PK? Lecavalier, St.Louis, Hossa, Heatley, Kopitar, Alfredsson.
Last year, when Pittsburgh was a much weaker team, Sid had a better chance of winning the MVP. This year i don't think he even deserves a nod. Sid's extra 22 assists and 12 fewer goals will probably end up getting him the Art Ross. It should not get him even at arm's length of the Hart Memorial. The more i look at it, the more i think Hossa deserves the third nod.
However the winner and runner up will be...
Brodeur and Luongo. He may not be the new face of the league, but he is the biggest name among active goalies. Wins doesn't really mean anything regardless of how much people throw the stat around, same for GAA. If they truly mattered Hasek would be right up there, and he isn't. Those are both team stats. Hasek leads the league in GAA and has a respectable 34 wins on 48 starts(70.1%). Brodeur has 40 wins on 66 starts(60.1%). That's not even getting into Brodeur having a few easy in division games vs Philly, while Hasek's weakest in division opponent is Boston.
Save percentage, and to a lesser extent shutouts, are what matter for comparing one goalie to another, and Brodeur and Luongo both have great numbers. Which is why they does deserve a nod. They both deserve nominations.
Brodeur will win though, because of his exposure, and his high shutout count. Even though should Vancouver win the division, it will have been entirely on the back of Luongo.
[/quote]
Wow, strong post! Welcome to the forums Big Show. |
| Guest2147 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 16:03:01
saying crosby doesnt even deserve a nod is a joe and syaing he had a better chacne last yr is a joke. pitsburg was wat 14th in there confrence last yr tis yr there ina r ace for 4th and its all because crosby is lighting it up as a 19 yr old and the guys around him are doing so well cause crosby gives them the puck. crosby makes everyone better around him. pitsburg is all young n upcomning stars and there gettin a fast start because crosby sets them up for goals. look at at stall he has like a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio to goals to assists and thats cause crosyb sets him up for goals. and for penlty kill u dont need to waste ur top scorers minutes on pk when you have pk specialist like stall n armstrong who thrive in that positition. i tihnkBroduer deserves the MVP cause hes played absoutly amazing n is the reason devils r ahead of pengiuns in there division but saying crosby doesnt get a nod is a complete farse |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 15:37:49
But look, even after all those stats, Hossa is not more valuable to his team than Crosby. Atlanta has Kozlov, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen and now Tkachuk who form quite a strong group to attack/defend opponents. They are each their own superstar except for Kozlov who sets up a lot of plays for Hossa EV, add Kovalchuk and Tkachuk on the PP. Take one of them away, and the team would survive despite a minor struggle. I would argue that Kozlov is more crucial to that team than Hossa.
Crosby does have Malkin and Staal, but a lot of their success can be directly attributed to playing with Crosby. Crosby elevates his team and gets washups like Recchi and Gonchar involved in the scoring by creating chances for them. Hossa isn't the Crosby in this instance, he is the one benefiting from the chances being created. Granted Hossa is an elite player who also creates chances for himself, but to me the playmaker on the team is more valuable than the ones who finish off his plays. I see Thornton as more valuable than Marleau on the Sharks, Briere more than Vanek or Drury, H.Sedin more than D.Sedin (disregarding Luongo as their real MVP), Hemsky more than Sykora or Horcoff, etc. |
| BigShow |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 14:53:50
[quote="beans15"]Brodeur or Luongo are the "smart" choices, but don't be surprised if it goes to Sid the Kid. Sid has be in on nearly 50% of the goals Pitt has scored and he is the "new face" of the league.
Be prepared to the Kid.[/quote]
Just for comparison sake, Sid is in on 43% of his team's goals, Vinny+Marty both 42%, Hossa 41%. Looking at some of the teams that don't score as much, Savard is in on 44.4%, Ovehkin 41%, Thornton 42%, Jagr 40%. Like i said in my previous post, Sid is surrounded by a good team. He is producing at a great pace, but not by any means is he in a league of his own.
Sid is +9, with 100 points, 50 on the PP. So he has been on the ice for 41 GA even strength or SH. Hossa is +20, has 90 points, 38 on the PP. So he has been on the ice for 32GA even strength or SH. Hossa is 5/8 on the shootout, Crosby is 4/13. The shootout is a huge factor in today's game, while most stars don't seem to be great at it, it is one more jewel in Hossa's hat. Hossa is outshooting Crosby 302 to 204.
Hossa averages a minute more ice time a game. Hossa has 3 SH goals, which are often demoralizing and is on his team's first PK unit. Crosby isn't trusted to play shorthanded. The greats almost all end up playing on the PK, it shows a lot of their character. A few that played signifigant PK time in their prime: Jagr, Bondra, Federov, Francis, Lemiuex, Kariya, Gretzky. And current stars that play on the PK? Lecavalier, St.Louis, Hossa, Heatley, Kopitar, Alfredsson.
Last year, when Pittsburgh was a much weaker team, Sid had a better chance of winning the MVP. This year i don't think he even deserves a nod. Sid's extra 22 assists and 12 fewer goals will probably end up getting him the Art Ross. It should not get him even at arm's length of the Hart Memorial. The more i look at it, the more i think Hossa deserves the third nod.
However the winner and runner up will be...
Brodeur and Luongo. He may not be the new face of the league, but he is the biggest name among active goalies. Wins doesn't really mean anything regardless of how much people throw the stat around, same for GAA. If they truly mattered Hasek would be right up there, and he isn't. Those are both team stats. Hasek leads the league in GAA and has a respectable 34 wins on 48 starts(70.1%). Brodeur has 40 wins on 66 starts(60.1%). That's not even getting into Brodeur having a few easy in division games vs Philly, while Hasek's weakest in division opponent is Boston.
Save percentage, and to a lesser extent shutouts, are what matter for comparing one goalie to another, and Brodeur and Luongo both have great numbers. Which is why they does deserve a nod. They both deserve nominations.
Brodeur will win though, because of his exposure, and his high shutout count. Even though should Vancouver win the division, it will have been entirely on the back of Luongo. |
| ED11 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:12:56
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
The award is described as the most valuable player to his team, and by definition I think it should be Luongo because he is the only bright light on Vancouver (Sedin's are WAY too inconsistent). But seen as it is usually given out as the league's MVP, it should go to Brodeur or Crosby without question to me. Brodeur wins the games for NJ and Crosby makes his surroundings good. The stats don't lie for either of them so I believe that all three of these players are equally deserving. If it could be a joint award, the TB duo would have it in the bag without argument.
Hey! There we go babs! Something that I agree with you on, haha. Brodeur or Crosby for me also! Brodeur just simply wins games for his team and has been doing it most of his career and Crosby makes players around him better and WILL do it for most of his career. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 11:40:17
The award is described as the most valuable player to his team, and by definition I think it should be Luongo because he is the only bright light on Vancouver (Sedin's are WAY too inconsistent). But seen as it is usually given out as the league's MVP, it should go to Brodeur or Crosby without question to me. Brodeur wins the games for NJ and Crosby makes his surroundings good. The stats don't lie for either of them so I believe that all three of these players are equally deserving. If it could be a joint award, the TB duo would have it in the bag without argument. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 11:29:44
Brodeur or Luongo are the "smart" choices, but don't be surprised if it goes to Sid the Kid. Sid has be in on nearly 50% of the goals Pitt has scored and he is the "new face" of the league.
Be prepared to the Kid. |
| Patchy |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 08:43:19
Brodeur should win in my opinion, he already has 40+ wins, I don't even know how many shutouts but it's alot for the new NHL. And I believe he has a 2.12 GAA.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
| jbraiter |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 08:20:47
Crosby might get a nomination, but he shouldn't. As much as people like to say the Penguins are a bad team, that really isn't true anymore. Malone, Malkin, Whitney, Staal, and Armstrong are all up and coming players that have arrived. Plus leadership from Recchi and now Roberts... makes for a very solid core, a lot better than most teams now, and they will be far better in the next two years. Crosby is great, but he shouldn't get a MVP nomination.
Brodeur has to be the favourite. Most of the voters live in the east, and they will be far more familiar with his achievements. As it is all year we've been hearing how he will win it, in the papers. And those are the writers that will be voting. He has had a great season and does at least deserve a nomination.
Luongo is also doing great, and with Naslund doing so little, it really adds the kind of pressure that should push Luongo towards the top. Luongo should get a nomination for sure, and if Vancouver keeps the division title he should win the MVP.
[/quote]
I totally agree with you here, but i think naslund is starting to pick it up again from a horrible season last year |
| BigShow |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 06:45:16
It won't be either of the Tampa boys. Neither one of them means as much to their team as the stars of many other teams. Because they are both doing so well it kills off both of their chances to be MVP. Though i would love to see Vinny get a nod.
Crosby might get a nomination, but he shouldn't. As much as people like to say the Penguins are a bad team, that really isn't true anymore. Malone, Malkin, Whitney, Staal, and Armstrong are all up and coming players that have arrived. Plus leadership from Recchi and now Roberts... makes for a very solid core, a lot better than most teams now, and they will be far better in the next two years. Crosby is great, but he shouldn't get a MVP nomination.
Brodeur has to be the favourite. Most of the voters live in the east, and they will be far more familiar with his achievements. As it is all year we've been hearing how he will win it, in the papers. And those are the writers that will be voting. He has had a great season and does at least deserve a nomination.
Luongo is also doing great, and with Naslund doing so little, it really adds the kind of pressure that should push Luongo towards the top. Luongo should get a nomination for sure, and if Vancouver keeps the division title he should win the MVP.
My shadow pick for the third nomination is Marian Hossa. This guy has really stepped it up from last season. And he has become a complete player learning from Kozlov. He plays all situations, and has been in the top five in scoring all season. Unlike Vinny and Marty, Hossa doesn't skate with Kovalchuk on even strength, so his production can't be blamed on having another elite scoring player around. Hossa has also done very well on the shootout, unlike most other elite forwards. All that said, Hossa has been too streaky, and when he slumps the team slumps. |
| Novie |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 05:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyno2000
I would have to say Brodeur because without him the Devils would not be where they are right now
If that's the criteria, why not Sid? I can't think of anybody more valuable to his team...maybe Brodeur. LIving in Calgary, I don't see a lot of Canucks games, but if he's in the same boat, there are your three finalists. Although, one of the T Bay duo will surely make their way in place of one of those goalies.
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 23:16:07
Roberto Luongo For sure, without him the Canucks would be fighting for a spot if not already out.
CANUCKS RULE!! |
| Buddyno2000 |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 22:55:03
I would have to say Brodeur because without him the Devils would not be where they are right now, specialy since he's ben in the net almost every night.
Go leafs Go by the way |
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