| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:23:31
Who do you pick as your first goalie in a fantasy draft for 2011-2012? |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:57:13
quote:
Also, Vokoun has no back-up that has already played a full season with very good numbers, as Thomas has with Rask.
didn't we all just talk about how good Neuvirth was? He's gotta be at least as good a backup as Rask is in BOS. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:50:07
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271
If Boston continues to play a defencive style and Thomas gets at least 50 starts is he not at least worth considering especially factoring shut outs. Sounds like you made my argument for drafting him.
Not really - Thomas is older and much closer to retirement than Vokoun is. Some even thought he might retire after winning the cup, but so far he is saying he is returning.
Also, Vokoun has no back-up that has already played a full season with very good numbers, as Thomas has with Rask.
Also, Washington just signed Vokoun as reasonably high-priced free agent, whereas Thomas is near the end of his contract on the cup champs.
Boston does have a fairly defensive style though, I guess.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4271 |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 10:13:37
If Boston continues to play a defencive style and Thomas gets at least 50 starts is he not at least worth considering especially factoring shut outs. Sounds like you made my argument for drafting him. |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 07:13:24
okay but if they are playing so well defensively that games are 3-0 and 4-1 then they still should have a great +/- |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/16/2011 : 04:59:33
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
so which goalie improved again? ..... holtby?
and slozo we all watch tsn, i'm just not buying the "they bought in defensively to take a dip in offensive numbers". the only way to really gauge something like that would be overall team points, goaltender statistics, or +/- of individual players (which should remain about the same since "everyone" took a dip offensively but also stepped it up soo much on defense right?
so they went from 54 wins and 121 points in 2009-2010
to 48 wins 107 points in 2010-2011
ovechkin went from +45 to +24
backstrom +37 to +24
semin +36 to +22
yep the evidence is mounting. lack of offensive production does not equal responsible defensive play, that is where your premise is extremely flawed.
Lol . . . flawed premise indeed. You do know how a +/- stat is compiled, right? And you do know that a team that always wins 3-2 in a tighter, more defensive game will have less inflated +/- stats than a team that often wins 6-3. Right?
Lower scoring, tighter games, led to lower +/- scores for most of the Caps last year, yes. This is why you have to look past the stats and get a broader picture sometimes.
Regardless, this has very little to do with the #1 Goalie pick in this year's poolie draft, other than this:
If Washington continues to play a more defensive style, and Vokoun gets at least 50 starts . . . is Vokoun a legitimate risk to take as your #1 goalie?
On a more defensive Washington, does this add an extra 4 or 5 shutouts? It's worth thinking about, anyways.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 12:06:22
quote:
neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
When you're a young goalie sporting a 2.5 GAA and a .915 SV%, I don't think your team is necessarily looking to see if you can improve dramatically on the numbers - rather, they want to know if you can do it on a consistent basis, and last year Neuvirth showed that he could do it over 50 games instead of 20 games, which is quite an improvement IMO.
The problem with Varlamov is injuries, he never seemed to be able to get back to 100% early last season, and Neuvirth made the most of his opportunity. |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 09:34:55
neuvirths numbers didn't really improve that much his SV% was the exact same and GAA improved a bit, he got 3 times as many wins and 3 times as many losses in 3 times as many games.
varlamovs GAA & SV% improved quite a bit ironically and he lost his job...but he had 4 less wins than the year before and played 1 more game.
so which goalie improved again? ..... holtby?
and slozo we all watch tsn, i'm just not buying the "they bought in defensively to take a dip in offensive numbers". the only way to really gauge something like that would be overall team points, goaltender statistics, or +/- of individual players (which should remain about the same since "everyone" took a dip offensively but also stepped it up soo much on defense right?
so they went from 54 wins and 121 points in 2009-2010
to 48 wins 107 points in 2010-2011
ovechkin went from +45 to +24
backstrom +37 to +24
semin +36 to +22
yep the evidence is mounting. lack of offensive production does not equal responsible defensive play, that is where your premise is extremely flawed. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 08:06:10
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
washington doesn't make their golies look good by any means IMO. the goalies may get wins (mind you they are usually 6-5) which will pad their stats in that category. however, all other stats like GAA and SV% suffer majory from washingtons offensive defensemen. washington wins games with offense so the only stat that gets boosted is the wins column. i would expect vokouns numbers (GAA & SV%) take a hit this year as well as shutouts simply becuase it is offense first always in washington and they will feel that way more so this year with an improved goalie in net.
Apparently you didn't watch Washington last year and are going on the years previous. They played a MUCH more defensive game last year, reflected in almost every player's declining offensive stats, and better stats for the goalies.
I would say that Neuvirth's numbers were boosted by this.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/15/2011 : 07:21:38
washington doesn't make their golies look good by any means IMO. the goalies may get wins (mind you they are usually 6-5) which will pad their stats in that category. however, all other stats like GAA and SV% suffer majory from washingtons offensive defensemen. washington wins games with offense so the only stat that gets boosted is the wins column. i would expect vokouns numbers (GAA & SV%) take a hit this year as well as shutouts simply becuase it is offense first always in washington and they will feel that way more so this year with an improved goalie in net. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/14/2011 : 15:57:08
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Good points on Neuvirth/Vokoun. Makes me think longer on where I am putting Vokoun in my goalie picks.
I think Washington IS really hedging their bets, but with a very strong lean towards Vokoun. Vokoun I think will still get 50 starts if he plays like we all know he can, so consistent, and stealing games here and there.
I hear what people are saying about Neuvirth, but . . . those added starts and wins are because Washington didn't have better options, and they are a very gifted team that doesn't always need an A performance from their goalie.
I think Neuvirth may have to wait a year, maybe two, to become the starter.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
yeah slozo i think you re 100% right Vokoun is i think their expected starter, but Neuvirth is going to get his fair share of starts and you re right he may have looked better last season because of the great team he played for but he was solid and got the job done, so i am sure wash is going to want to continu his development but Vokoun certainly takes the pressure off this young starter, i say you`re about right 32 games for Neuvirth 50 for Vokoun, probably Voukoun goes 32-12-6 and Neuvirth something like 18-10-2, so Vokoun would be a good pick up late first pick goalie
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| n/a |
Posted - 08/14/2011 : 14:21:30
Good points on Neuvirth/Vokoun. Makes me think longer on where I am putting Vokoun in my goalie picks.
I think Washington IS really hedging their bets, but with a very strong lean towards Vokoun. Vokoun I think will still get 50 starts if he plays like we all know he can, so consistent, and stealing games here and there.
I hear what people are saying about Neuvirth, but . . . those added starts and wins are because Washington didn't have better options, and they are a very gifted team that doesn't always need an A performance from their goalie.
I think Neuvirth may have to wait a year, maybe two, to become the starter.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 19:07:47
quote:
Which is why i would stray away from Vokoun i mean Neuvirth did pretty darn good with 48 starts last season i can't see him starting less than 40 this year which spread the caps wins out to much between the two good goalies
Is WSH getting Vokoun as a steadying tandem and counting on a split in duties, or is Vokoun taking a serious paycut to get a chance to win next year? You make a good point - perhaps my thinking on his position with WSH is wrong.
I think that Vokoun will get a decent chance to be a #1, and perhaps WSH is simply hedging against a poor sophomore season for Neuvirth. Perhaps the smart move is to draft them both - then you get all of WSH's goaltending no matter what.
I think Holtby will spend another year in the minors. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 17:52:32
OKay Nuxxy i swear i am not trying to disagree with everything you say but........
i personnally would have Vokoun way at the bottom of my B- list, maybe even top of my C list,,
last year Neuvirth stole to Starting job from Varlomov at 23 last season he started
48 games for the caps he won 27 lost 12 and got 4 to OT, while posting a GAA of 2.45 and a .914 sv%
Now i would not argue with you for a second that Vokoun is a better goalie at the same time it would be hard for the caps to justifiy to this young goalie with a bright bright futur who backstopped the caps to first place in the east last season and past the first round of the playoffs, (2.35 gaa and .912Sv % in the post season) that he would get less starts then he did the season before, he did everything right last season to earn more starts, just Bringing in Vokoun must be a kick in the teeth to this young Goalie,
Granted as i said Vokoun is a better goalie right now but i truly can't see the caps risking Neuvirth's developpment, i see Vokoun and Neuvirth startign pretty close to 41 games a pieace and the best of the two getting the post season,
Which is why i would stray away from Vokoun i mean Neuvirth did pretty darn good with 48 starts last season i can't see him starting less than 40 this year which spread the caps wins out to much between the two good goalies
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 10:05:58
Same Patsy - its sometimes hard to convey the right tone, I am also not belittling you or downplaying Price as a goalie. I re-read a couple of things I said and realize that they could sound either honest debate or snarky a$$hat - they were the former, apologies if they came across as mean.
quote:
the order i would choose in is Lundquvist is number 1 he will get all but 5 or 6 of a pretty good rangers team's wins next season, Next Miller only becaus Enroth is young and showed he was good enought to start last season so the Sabres may try and rest Miller more if they feel they ccan win with Enroth,
I too might take Lundqvist #1, the Rangers look poised to have a good year, and Lundqvist is going to get the lion's share of the games. SAme for Miller - rest or not, he'll still get 65-70 starts on a very good Sabres team.
quote:
Voukon is goign to split time with Neuvith who had a good year and is obviously the futur or even Holtby, their are too many good Goalies in Washington to for Voukon's sake, Same sort of deal with Thomas and Luongo,
This may be the deal with Thomas and Vokoun, but this will not be the case with Luongo - he is the starter in VAN for the next decade unless there is a catastrophic fail somewhere, and Schneider is getting starts likely to boost his own trade value. Luongo is 3rd on my goalie list.
After that, I take Bryz, Fleury, Vokoun in that order. Then I get to the b-list. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 00:36:11
Btw Nuxfan i know the tone of a conversation is hard to grasp over a forum sometimes but i just wanted to let you know although we disagree on this subject i am in no way tryng to be little your opinion of which i have respect for at all times , i just wanted to make sure you know that and not think i'm takeing shots at you or anything,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/13/2011 : 00:22:58
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
He sure did.
So you're saying you would take Price before Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Fleury, or Vokoun in your pool?
quote:
Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
I think that after Schneider played so well, the Canucks adjusted their strategy with him and decided to play Luongo less to rest him through the season - and IMO it paid off, statistically Luongo had his best regular season ever and best post-season in 3 years. I think they'll keep him thru all next year, if it ain't broke... Schneider is RFA after next season, so there is no rush to deal him.
the order i would choose in is Lundquvist is number 1 he will get all but 5 or 6 of a pretty good rangers team's wins next season, Next Miller only becaus Enroth is young and showed he was good enought to start last season so the Sabres may try and rest Miller more if they feel they ccan win with Enroth,
Voukon is goign to split time with Neuvith who had a good year and is obviously the futur or even Holtby, their are too many good Goalies in Washington to for Voukon's sake, Same sort of deal with Thomas and Luongo,
Rinne is close but again Lindback can do the job if the habs have any shot this year it will be with Price he will start 65 plus games this season the habs need him to,
ok here is my order in Goalies i think will get the most wins next season
-Lundqvist
-Miller
-Kipprusoft
-Ward
-Howard
-Quick Price Fleury Bryzkalov all flip a coin
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 22:21:32
quote:
didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
He sure did.
So you're saying you would take Price before Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Fleury, or Vokoun in your pool?
quote:
Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
I think that after Schneider played so well, the Canucks adjusted their strategy with him and decided to play Luongo less to rest him through the season - and IMO it paid off, statistically Luongo had his best regular season ever and best post-season in 3 years. I think they'll keep him thru all next year, if it ain't broke... Schneider is RFA after next season, so there is no rush to deal him. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 20:51:49
Good point Pasty....as long as Schneider is stilll a Canuck, Luongo could be stuck around the 60 game mark. Of course, there's a possibility of Schneider being traded and Luongo's workload could increase? There's also a chance the Rask/Thomas situation happens in VanCity and Lu struggles and Schneider takes over a bunch more starts?
Price could very well play 70+ again! |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 20:48:05
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though 
didn't price have more wins then all those goalies last season except luongo ??
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 19:47:16
quote:
Do i sense a wager?
There's probably one in there somewhere...
quote:
the bruins may intentionally just play thomas 35-45 games to get rask more experience and keep him fresh for another run at the cup
Thomas didn't play a particularly large number of games last year either, just 57. Luongo only started in 60. Both teams have the benefit of a very solid backup, but I wonder if other teams will take note of how the two cup finalists played their starting goalies thru the year? |
| Guest2782 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 16:18:14
So Boston starts Thomas for 40 starts and he gets 30 wins. Thats 5 more wins than Reimer gets this year. |
| @valanche |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 12:31:47
the bruins may intentionally just play thomas 35-45 games to get rask more experience and keep him fresh for another run at the cup
66 is > than 99 |
| Guest4086 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 11:13:41
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
yep totally agree. isn't it his off year now?
even if he does have another great year, when your picking at the beginning of the season there is a big risk that Thomas will end up relinquishing his role to Rask at some point.
if he (Rask) wasn't their second goalie, and it was just another average joe bench warmer, then I'd have no issues taking Thomas. or even vice versa, for that matter. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 10:47:55
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though
Do i sense a wager?  |
| Guest4312 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 09:07:43
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
yep totally agree. isn't it his off year now? |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 08:21:19
quote:
And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 07:44:05
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only.
Beans, looking at last year only is not really fair in this sense. Last year would easily be considered an anomaly. Looking at the past five seasons, here's what you see:
06/07.... 1st - 48 wins 15th - 31 wins
07/08.... 1st - 46 wins 15th - 30 wins
08/09.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 28 wins
09/10.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 30 wins
10/11.... 1st - 38 wins 15th - 34 wins
You can really only contribute it to parity to a point. I mean, that's a huge difference from 2010 to 2011 and i don't think the league became more even to that degree over one season? Therefore, if you look at the other years past, you can see my point. Again, it really depends what your goalies are awarded points wise, but i've seen pools which award 3 for a win plus 2 for a shutout? Even in an "off" year (compared to the past ones i just noted), Luongo would have been worth 122! Actually, with 8 shutouts, Price would have been tops with 130! In these pools, goalies become far too valuable and most guys are picking them in round 1!
I'd prefer either goalies worth 2pts for a win and 1 (or possibly 2pts) for a shutout. In drafts like this, even goalies with 45 wins and a half dozen shutouts would only be worth 95-100pts, making them worth the same avg as a top 10 player more or less. If that was the top goalie, it makes it more strategic for drafting the middle tier goalies.
My only prob with designated rounds for drafting goalies is that it becomes pretty much a crap shoot as to draft position. I'd rather see guys having to determine amongst themselves, just how early to pick a goalie! Of course, pools which only require or only allow 1 goalie per team can often benefit the guy who picks his last. I picked Cam Ward last a few years back and while he wasn't top 8-10 that year, he still got me the equivalent of 70ish points while my competetors were filling their rosters at that point with 50 point players!
Goalies in pools are very tricky as they can make or break your pool and it's prob why i prefer pools not use them!
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
Sure Alex, you can say that the top goalie has 45+ wins and the 15th goalie has around 30. But how many goalies are closer to the 45+ wins and how many are closer to 30?? Also, this is where drafting two goalies evens it out much like the 1st two rounds of a snake draft. If you pick 1st in a skater round there is a good chance you will get a 100 pt player as your first pick and a 70 pt player as your 2nd pick where the last pick in that round will likely get two-85 pt players. It's a wash.
During the goalie rounds, if the first pick gets a 40+ win goalie, he will likely get a 20ish win goalie for his 2nd pick where the last pick in the round will likely get 2-30 game winners.
For years we have done the 2 pts for a win/2 more pts for a shutout and straight point for any offensive number (goal or assist). It does put those elite top 4-5 goalies in the top of point getters overall. This season, we are going 1 pt for a win and 2 pts for a shut out to level it out a bit. We will see how it goes. I have also heard of drafts who give 3 pts for a win but also take away a pt for every 2 goals against. So if a goalie wins a game 5-4 they only get one point where if a goalie wins a game 3-1, they would get all 3 points.
That being said, I have never known a goalie point system that works really well in a draft. They either over reward performance or under reward it. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 04:36:20
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it.
Dude - just take it back. Seriously. Price has not had a "horrendous" season yet. Not even terrible, or really bad. Maybe his weakest season was disappointing, for sure, because he lost the starter's job . . . but it was not that bad, really.
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 22:09:39
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it.
And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 21:59:04
well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 20:27:56
i m mostly getting hung up on the Horrendous season comment,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 20:06:24
quote:
but my point is he is guranteed 70 starts this year
No goalie is guaranteed anything, ever. It might be one of the most fickle positions in hockey, and if Price doesn't play particularly well, a) he may not get all the starts he wants, b) MTL might not get those 40 wins, or c) both.
Injuries can happen to any goalie, so I don't put much into that - its bad luck no matter how who it happens to.
quote:
e is pretty much guranteed 30 wins barring injury which puts him on your b list
Yeah, sure, he's on my b-list - it wasn't a full list. Pretty much any #1 goalie not named Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Fleury, Vokoun, or Bryzgalov are on my b-list. I would probably also take Quick, Rinne, Crawford, Ward, Thomas, and Kiprusoff over Price from my b-list. Backstrom would be a toss-up.
You're getting pretty hung up on Price here Pasty, but I don't think I'm being unfair in saying that 1 amazing season does not a blue-chip goalie make... |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 17:37:37
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
In the context we're talking about it certainly is. You asked why I didn't think Price was in my A-list of goalies to draft - how does a 23-16-10, 2.83/.905 record stack up compared to Luongo/Miller/Lundqvist/Fleury/etc?
I'm not saying Price won't have a good season. But in his (admittedly short) career, he has had 1 stellar season, 2 average ones, and a bad one. So for me, he hasn't shown enough consistency for me to burn a first or early second round pick on him.
but my point is he is guranteed 70 starts this year as last the two years he played full time in the NHL that you call horendous season`s he was not alone Cristobal Huet was around for a good 25 wins and Halak in the other seasons ,, this year as last basicly all of the habs wins will be attributed to Prices stats which will be at least 35 barring a complete meltdown by the team, now that Price is a bonified starter he is pretty much guranteed 30 wins barring injury which puts him on your b list,, just because you know he will be getting the starts,, like i said a perfect example on this is Raycroft with the Leafs a few years back he won 37 games and i think his sv% was like 880 and his GAA over 3,, he had a terrible year and was run out of town but he still won 37 games why because he got the starts
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 17:07:04
quote:
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
In my friends-only pool each year, we give 2 pts for a goalie win, 1 for an OTL, +3 for a SO, as well as +5 for assists and +10 for goals. Offensive players have similar accelerator stats, so it works out pretty evenly. In past years, the top goalie has always been top 20 in points. A couple of years ago when Brodeur had that awesome season he was top-5, but that was an anomaly. Goalies rarely make or break this pool.
In my yahoo pools, you can draft 1 or more goalies, depending on how many you think you need - and you can draft them any time you want in the draft. Each week goalie points account for 4 out of 11 (wins, SV%, GAA, SO), and you must have at least 3 goalie games per week. Its up to you if you want to ride a single hot goalie or go for more. The right goalie can do wonders for you, and the right 3some can be amazing - last year in one of my pools I ended up with both Luongo, Fleury, and Howard (someone dropped Fleury right at his low, and I got him on the waiver wire), and I got very used to collecting an automatic 4 points every week for them. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 16:59:19
quote:
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
In the context we're talking about it certainly is. You asked why I didn't think Price was in my A-list of goalies to draft - how does a 23-16-10, 2.83/.905 record stack up compared to Luongo/Miller/Lundqvist/Fleury/etc?
I'm not saying Price won't have a good season. But in his (admittedly short) career, he has had 1 stellar season, 2 average ones, and a bad one. So for me, he hasn't shown enough consistency for me to burn a first or early second round pick on him. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 16:43:32
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only.
Beans, looking at last year only is not really fair in this sense. Last year would easily be considered an anomaly. Looking at the past five seasons, here's what you see:
06/07.... 1st - 48 wins 15th - 31 wins
07/08.... 1st - 46 wins 15th - 30 wins
08/09.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 28 wins
09/10.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 30 wins
10/11.... 1st - 38 wins 15th - 34 wins
You can really only contribute it to parity to a point. I mean, that's a huge difference from 2010 to 2011 and i don't think the league became more even to that degree over one season? Therefore, if you look at the other years past, you can see my point. Again, it really depends what your goalies are awarded points wise, but i've seen pools which award 3 for a win plus 2 for a shutout? Even in an "off" year (compared to the past ones i just noted), Luongo would have been worth 122! Actually, with 8 shutouts, Price would have been tops with 130! In these pools, goalies become far too valuable and most guys are picking them in round 1!
I'd prefer either goalies worth 2pts for a win and 1 (or possibly 2pts) for a shutout. In drafts like this, even goalies with 45 wins and a half dozen shutouts would only be worth 95-100pts, making them worth the same avg as a top 10 player more or less. If that was the top goalie, it makes it more strategic for drafting the middle tier goalies.
My only prob with designated rounds for drafting goalies is that it becomes pretty much a crap shoot as to draft position. I'd rather see guys having to determine amongst themselves, just how early to pick a goalie! Of course, pools which only require or only allow 1 goalie per team can often benefit the guy who picks his last. I picked Cam Ward last a few years back and while he wasn't top 8-10 that year, he still got me the equivalent of 70ish points while my competetors were filling their rosters at that point with 50 point players!
Goalies in pools are very tricky as they can make or break your pool and it's prob why i prefer pools not use them!
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
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| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 15:57:34
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
NUXFAN even if the habs don't do well i think it's safe to say they will be middle of the pack so the team will win 40 games,, with Price starting 72 games last season and no real upgrade in a back up this season you can pretty much bank on Price winning close to 35 just because his team is good enought to win that many and he will be in the net for 85% of the games, kinda like Raycroft with the Leaf's back in the day i think he won 37 but didn't play paticurly well he just got the wins
Pasty, I'm just not sold on Price yet as a bonafide #1 starter. He's had 1 good season, one horrendous season, and 2 average seasons. Will it be the Price of 09/10, or the Price of 10/11 that will show up next year? Until he has more than one good season under his belt - ie, shows consistency - I will not consider him before other more established goalies.
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 11:27:03
20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 11:02:33
Beans, i guess it depends on how the points are awarded as you mentioned. However, if you designate rounds that goalies are picked in, that's almost worse isn't it? Then it's basically up to all luck as to what pick you get? If you get 12th pick outta 12, you could be screwed by 20 or so points, no? |
| Guest5203 |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 10:01:39
not thomas |
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