| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 17:33:50
Anyone see Carkner take out Brian Boyle with a sucker punch, followed by a handful more punches to the head once he was on the ground more or less defenseless?
Apparently, it was well known that something was gonna go down as the Sens were furious with the way Karlsson got worked over in game 1 by Boyle? I didn't see it so i can't comment.
Regardless, Shanny's got another incident on his plate and even though Boyle returned to the game, i'd have to say that Carkner will be suspended. Easy suspension of course for Shanny as this isn't a guy in the Shea Weber category. |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 15:08:29
I think I figured out why you have a problem with my post Clatts. You think I can dig up some video evidence which shows someone on New York doing something on the level of Carkner. Your right I can't, it was just a rough game and Carkner's actions were well above the action from the 1st game. Carkner definately went above and beyond. It was mostly just a rough game and my memory can't recall much but the tieup where Boyle was feeding Karlsson. Youtube only shows the rabbit punches and not much else. Either way I have moved on.quote:
Originally posted by Clatts
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
See this is why we are arguing I have maintained it was a cheapshot, penalized play and a suspendable offence. You just were not listening. It was also made to protect his best players from Boyle and company who were being physical and playing just as chippy. So in that I understand the hows and why's, but not the extent and didn't see it as being all evil like Bean's, Alex and you were trying to portray it.
I can view it as a cheapshot suspendable play and agree with the reasoning behind it. I'll admit the ground pounding seemed excessive but the initial shot understandable and not nearly as dangerous as you have portrayed it. I found the hit to Torres more excessive and more in line with the intent to injure you are claiming. Hell even the elbow to the head of Alfredson was more visious and likely to injure than the beat down Boyle received. Hence the results, Alfredson injured, Hossa injured.
I do apologize if I have come off short, but some of your responses have been rude and condesending. Poeple are allowed to disagree and apparently the NHL office of Shannahan agreed it was less dangerous in nature.
You miss my point, my issue is that you think Carkner was justified because you feel that the same things happened to Karlsson ect. but you have shown no proof of this. You say that New York was doing stuff that was JUST AS BAD when they weren't.
You can disagree with opinions and have your own but I reserve the right to call you on it if your saying things that are untrue.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 19:26:35
Joshua....my apologies for getting so frustrated, some of it stemming from your view that it wasn't a sucker punch, but most of it for not seeing my point that the result of the punch could have been far worse! I do note that you agree what he did was a cheapshot and not what you'd prefer to see and maybe i took some of your comments the wrong way, for example the comments about how he did what he had to do. If you're implying that he needed to stick up for his team, set an example and show the Rangers that they wouldn't let them push them around, then fine. I just don't agree with the way he did it and you seem to agree that it prob wasn't right either (because it was a cheapshot).
I don't recall ever getting into this heated of a debate with you and i've always enjoyed your posts. This need not continue any further so i will do my best to move on in hopes we can still respect one anothers posts and opinions in the future. 
I will now move on before i start singing Kumbaya....... |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 17:31:24
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
See this is why we are arguing I have maintained it was a cheapshot, penalized play and a suspendable offence. You just were not listening. It was also made to protect his best players from Boyle and company who were being physical and playing just as chippy. So in that I understand the hows and why's, but not the extent and didn't see it as being all evil like Bean's, Alex and you were trying to portray it.
I can view it as a cheapshot suspendable play and agree with the reasoning behind it. I'll admit the ground pounding seemed excessive but the initial shot understandable and not nearly as dangerous as you have portrayed it. I found the hit to Torres more excessive and more in line with the intent to injure you are claiming. Hell even the elbow to the head of Alfredson was more visious and likely to injure than the beat down Boyle received. Hence the results, Alfredson injured, Hossa injured.
I do apologize if I have come off short, but some of your responses have been rude and condesending. Poeple are allowed to disagree and apparently the NHL office of Shannahan agreed it was less dangerous in nature.
You miss my point, my issue is that you think Carkner was justified because you feel that the same things happened to Karlsson ect. but you have shown no proof of this. You say that New York was doing stuff that was JUST AS BAD when they weren't.
You can disagree with opinions and have your own but I reserve the right to call you on it if your saying things that are untrue.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 17:20:58
See this is why we are arguing I have maintained it was a cheapshot, penalized play and a suspendable offence. You just were not listening. It was also made to protect his best players from Boyle and company who were being physical and playing just as chippy. So in that I understand the hows and why's, but not the extent and didn't see it as being all evil like Bean's, Alex and you were trying to portray it.
I can view it as a cheapshot suspendable play and agree with the reasoning behind it. I'll admit the ground pounding seemed excessive but the initial shot understandable and not nearly as dangerous as you have portrayed it. I found the hit to Torres more excessive and more in line with the intent to injure you are claiming. Hell even the elbow to the head of Alfredson was more visious and likely to injure than the beat down Boyle received. Hence the results, Alfredson injured, Hossa injured.
I do apologize if I have come off short, but some of your responses have been rude and condesending. Poeple are allowed to disagree and apparently the NHL office of Shannahan agreed it was less dangerous in nature. |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 14:51:17
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Do you want me to highlight the first line so you can read it or you gonna cheap shot comment until you believe I actually agree with you. For a person who has a problem with cheap shots, you sure do throw a bunch of them up on a hockey blog. Hey lets pretend we dont have to agree on this point for a secondquote:
Originally posted by Clatts
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
See I agreed that the punch is a bad play and I even agree with the suspension. I have said that, so in that we agree. What I am disagreeing with is the level of hate on the play and how on this site it is being blown up. I think it was just one cheap play in a game that had lots of cheap plays, just like game 1. You will notice that game 3 and 4 were more of a skilled game and the level of cheap and chippy plays has gone down. And thats with or without Carkner in the lineup.
Cheap and chippy plays are one thing, what Carkner did is another.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
You can't have it both ways, you contradict yourself constantly. You say you now think the Carkner play was a bad one but then say it was just one of many cheap or chippy plays that occurred in the first and second game. What Carkner did was gross and I don't see anything on the rest of the series that compares.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 11:53:16
Do you want me to highlight the first line so you can read it or you gonna cheap shot comment until you believe I actually agree with you. For a person who has a problem with cheap shots, you sure do throw a bunch of them up on a hockey blog. Hey lets pretend we dont have to agree on this point for a secondquote:
Originally posted by Clatts
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
See I agreed that the punch is a bad play and I even agree with the suspension. I have said that, so in that we agree. What I am disagreeing with is the level of hate on the play and how on this site it is being blown up. I think it was just one cheap play in a game that had lots of cheap plays, just like game 1. You will notice that game 3 and 4 were more of a skilled game and the level of cheap and chippy plays has gone down. And thats with or without Carkner in the lineup.
Cheap and chippy plays are one thing, what Carkner did is another.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
|
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 11:34:18
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
See I agreed that the punch is a bad play and I even agree with the suspension. I have said that, so in that we agree. What I am disagreeing with is the level of hate on the play and how on this site it is being blown up. I think it was just one cheap play in a game that had lots of cheap plays, just like game 1. You will notice that game 3 and 4 were more of a skilled game and the level of cheap and chippy plays has gone down. And thats with or without Carkner in the lineup.
Cheap and chippy plays are one thing, what Carkner did is another.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 08:20:52
See I agreed that the punch is a bad play and I even agree with the suspension. I have said that, so in that we agree. What I am disagreeing with is the level of hate on the play and how on this site it is being blown up. I think it was just one cheap play in a game that had lots of cheap plays, just like game 1. You will notice that game 3 and 4 were more of a skilled game and the level of cheap and chippy plays has gone down. And thats with or without Carkner in the lineup. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 07:36:31
Josua, if you can take the blinders off for a second and look at things objective, the snide comments might lessen.
I don't think anyone is comparing the Carkner situation to the Bertuzzi situation regarding the OUTCOME, but the ACTION is undeniable similar. Alex really did say is best. You could take his 4-5 points and remove Bertuzzi's name and insert Carker's and the descriptions are very similar.
Frankly, every time I bounce into this thread to take a look, your argument loses creditability. There is no justification for repeatedly punched an opponent who is not engaged in a fight. If the player getting punched gets injured or not is irrelevant. The action is reprehensible and there is no logical or reasonable way to justify on any level.
You are 100% correct that sensationalizing this event in comparison to the Bertuzzi/Moore situation regarding OUTCOME is ridiculous. However, from a pure action standpoint, it is very comparable. The only difference I see (other than the Bertuzzi incident being a sucker punch from behind)is Bertuzzi gave Moore a number of opportunities to engage. Carkner didn't give Boyle a chance to even lift up his hands before he cracked him twice.
But that's Carkner's MO, he's done it in the past. It takes a real tough dude to fight someone when the other person has no idea the fight is coming.
He's a D-bag. Done.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| Guest6072 |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 06:43:14
Well, whatever your opinions on the incident, you have to admit the message Carkner sent was loud and clear. Both teams settled down for games 3 and 4. Those two games were some of the best hockey you will ever see in these playoffs and how the game should be played. Sure there was still some chippy play, but nowhere near what was seen in game 1 and especially game 2. I'm hoping the series goes to 7 games just to see more of this kind of play. I'm also hoping my Sens win it, but I doubt it will happen.
Has anybody else noticed that since the league crackdown on head shots, there has been a significant increase in head injuries? |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 06:25:30
Wow when you guys are right your right. Apparently Boyle fell over and died today from the punches he took in game 2. His mom is on camera crying for Carkner to get the electric chair. Apparantely Bertuzzi mom is on Camera too saying how similar a play they were and how another player, not her son, dare throw a punch after her son threw a career ending cheap shot.
Nope your right I made that up too and it didn't happen. Just like the dangerous injury that coulda, shoulda, but didnt happen from a punch throw in a hockey game when many punches throw in every NHL game every day. Carkner is no Bertuzzi, the play were not similar and you haven't scored any points |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 23:40:59
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Well I am not going to continue to try and convince you and you certainly are not seeing my point of view. So lets agree to disagree. Next time I see a Vancouver player throw a barenuckle punch on a player with his hands down, I will let you know.
Agree to disagree? Sure, but that's not what you're doing really. In fact, you're basically admitting that you don't have the evidence you said you did, that being other players or a player being punched before he dropped the gloves.
As for letting me know the next time a Vancouver player throws a bareknuckle punch on a player with his hands down, go for it. But keep in mind a couple things. First, i'll have prob seen it already, and second, and most important, it won't be necessary as i won't support what that player did! What i'm saying is it's not even worth your time. You're implying that i would defend the action and i can guarantee you i wouldn't! You're also basically admitting that you're defending Carkner's actions because he's a Sen! If i were going to do that, i'd be trying to convince you that:
1. What Bertuzzi did was necessary
2. Steve Moore deserved it
3. Bertuzzi's punch wasn't a sucker punch
4. Moore was a turtle and dropped the moment a guy his size challenged him.
5-8. *insert other comments Joshua made about the Carkner incident with with Bertuzzi's name swapped for his.
You're right about one thing though.....i will never see your point of view on this as, for the last time, what Carkner did was an out and out assault more than it was anything to do with hockey.
Alex when your right, you are right
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 22:59:37
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Well I am not going to continue to try and convince you and you certainly are not seeing my point of view. So lets agree to disagree. Next time I see a Vancouver player throw a barenuckle punch on a player with his hands down, I will let you know.
Agree to disagree? Sure, but that's not what you're doing really. In fact, you're basically admitting that you don't have the evidence you said you did, that being other players or a player being punched before he dropped the gloves.
As for letting me know the next time a Vancouver player throws a bareknuckle punch on a player with his hands down, go for it. But keep in mind a couple things. First, i'll have prob seen it already, and second, and most important, it won't be necessary as i won't support what that player did! What i'm saying is it's not even worth your time. You're implying that i would defend the action and i can guarantee you i wouldn't! You're also basically admitting that you're defending Carkner's actions because he's a Sen! If i were going to do that, i'd be trying to convince you that:
1. What Bertuzzi did was necessary
2. Steve Moore deserved it
3. Bertuzzi's punch wasn't a sucker punch
4. Moore was a turtle and dropped the moment a guy his size challenged him.
5-8. *insert other comments Joshua made about the Carkner incident with with Bertuzzi's name swapped for his.
You're right about one thing though.....i will never see your point of view on this as, for the last time, what Carkner did was an out and out assault more than it was anything to do with hockey. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 11:53:34
Well I am not going to continue to try and convince you and you certainly are not seeing my point of view. So lets agree to disagree. Next time I see a Vancouver player throw a barenuckle punch on a player with his hands down, I will let you know. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 09:57:37
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
With all due respect to Todd Fedoruk, without fighting in the game guys like him would have had a hard time cracking the lineup. If you want punching removed from the game, say that instead. You cant have it both ways. Either there is no punching in the head period, good luck enforcing that, or enforcer rome's the ice to protect skilled players. I am certain this was not the only punch throw in that game, when the player hit hadn't yet drop his gloves. I maintain the initial shot looked devestating because it dropped him immediately and the followup shot looked worse at the time because we all assumed they were headshots. He had been suspended rightfully so, but I dont see this as all evil like you are portraying it to be
I'd love to be done with this so i ask you (Joshua) just one simple question. Do you think it is possible that a player being punched bareknuckled to the face could be KO'd and fall to the ice and suffer a serious injury? That's all i ask you to answer. Please don't tell me that a player could be injured the same way in a fight because at least in a fight, he's prepared and knows the risk he's taking! Please don't tell me a player could be hurt in a collision / body check, because again, a player knows the risks he takes playing the game.
As for Fedoruk's role and the fact he wouldn't have a place in the game, who cares? That's not what is up for discussion here. Again, Fedoruk knew the risks he took, especially with a guy like the Boogieman! BUT, the Boogieman didn't punch him unsuspectingly like Carkner did to Boyle!!!
As for your comment "I am certain this was not the only punch throw in that game, when the player hit hadn't yet drop his gloves.", i call BS. Show me a clip of another guy dropping his glove(s) and punching a guy before the other guy dropped his! I really doubt it happened or we'd have heard about it, as would have Shanny! Go ahead, show me a clip!  |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:16:48
With all due respect to Todd Fedoruk, without fighting in the game guys like him would have had a hard time cracking the lineup. If you want punching removed from the game, say that instead. You cant have it both ways. Either there is no punching in the head period, good luck enforcing that, or enforcer rome's the ice to protect skilled players. I am certain this was not the only punch throw in that game, when the player hit hadn't yet drop his gloves. I maintain the initial shot looked devestating because it dropped him immediately and the followup shot looked worse at the time because we all assumed they were headshots. He had been suspended rightfully so, but I dont see this as all evil like you are portraying it to be |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 17:49:13
Joshua.....i'm not saying the Carkner punch was as bad as what Bertuzzi did. Clearly it wasn't. However, as someone earlier mentioned, just ask Todd Fedoruk whether or not a punch like this (notice i'm trying not to call it a sucker punch even though it is in my mind?) can result in a serious injury or worse a career threatening injury? If you're not aware of what happened to Fedoruk, it was in a fair fight where he happened to get caught with a serious blow. So i don't know how anyone could possibly think the same couldn't have happened to Boyle!!!
Prob is, some of you are clinging for dear life to the theory that it wasn't a sucker punch cuz it wasn't from behind. Hogwash! Just because it was from the front doesn't mean it was expected! Why didn't Carkner drop the gloves and give Boyle a chance at a fair fight? Heck, when Boyle got up after the ATTACK, he still had his freakin' gloves on! |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 07:53:04
My recollection of the Carkner tie up was a lot worse than the replay. I will take back my Boyle hate/gooning comment during this tie up. Also my recollection of the hits to the ground to Boyle were also a lot worse than the reality. Knowing they were body shots and not head shots helps me feel a little better about the shots after he dropped him.
Ok, for all the sensitive people posting here, a player skates up ice stops a player who delivers a clean check on another opposing player. He grabs him pushes him against the boards and gives him 1 good shot to the head dropping him, then hits him 6-7 times in the body and back. There is lots of seconds in between the check him being grabbed and Carkner throwing the hit. This type of plays happens a lot in hockey. Its not clean hockey, a suspendable play but not as dangerous as you are making this out to be. If it wasn't a shot hard enough to drop a 6-7 250 pound player with one hit, we wouldn't be talking about it. Had Boyle taken the shot like hundreds of players have in these playoffs, and millions around the world this year, rather than dropping like a sack of potatoes this wouldn't have appeared so dangerous.
It wasn't a tomahawk chop, wasn't a hit from behind and falling into a player driving his head into the ice and having 2 teams pile on the injured player. You need to re-evaluate why you are fighting this so hard here. |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 06:08:57
It's funny clatts, because I feel the same way. Until you watch the video I can't have an educated conversation with you. So I'll say what I think happens going up to this confrontation.
Boyle gets chirped before the game even starts in a pregame interview on the ice.
Boyle throws a clean on hit on smith who cleared the puck.
No puck being around Carkner comes over and hits Boyle. 2 and half seconds after the hit carkner throws the first punch from the front.
Okay so there are a few reasons why I know this isn't a sucker punch;
1. It's from the front and immediately after a check where the puck has been gone for over 2 seconds.
2. He is not defenseless, he has TWO AND A HALF SECONDS to defend himself post hit to punch. You can't sit there and tell me that a professional athlete is unable to process what's going to happen when they have to make decisions all over the ice in half seconds or less. It's what they're paid to do. If he took 2 and a half seconds to make decisions he wouldn't be in the NHL.
Okay asides from that Carkner did get what he deserved and that was essentially a 2 game suspension and a 5 minute major.
Porkchop, please take your boner for hating chris neil (or is it a jealousy boner?) somewhere else, this topic was about carkner and his suspension, ok? Thanks. |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 05:58:28
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
I'm beginning to think i'm wasting my time.......
Thats the smartest thing any of us has said since this thread started
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Guest9084 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 05:02:45
People need to look up what a sucker punch is. Hint - you don't see it coming and it's not from right in front of you.
Boyle declined to fight and Carkner didn't give him the choice. It's not as if Boyle was caught completely unawares, specially considering the jawing that took place at the faceoff bforehand. They're both classless moves. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 03:11:11
Well Guest you obviously have a man crush on both Carkner and Neil.
It is rather interesting that the definition you gave for a sucker punch is exactly what Carkner did
Since you comment on the Neil/Boyle fight later in the game. I would not even call it fight. They dropped the gloves wrestled to ground immediately where in typical Neil fashion he throws punches at the guy after they go down. There was nothing close to Boyle being "dummied".
Neil is coward, he will only get credit from me for the time he stood up to Chara, other then that he usually jumps guys to start fights.
At least the other Sens fans on here have realized it was a sucker punch and no longer defend that part of Carkners actions.
Also Joshua, a good punch to face can cause just as serious of injury and anything else hitting the face or head. Just ask Todd Fedoruk.
I LOVE THE OTTAWA SENATORS |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 00:09:43
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9001
He didn't need to continue punching him but it sure was entertaining and if you watch the replay they're all body shots. Also alex any nhl fight/hit has the possibility to become as dangerous as you have claimed as it is just as easy to fall and smash your head on the ice in many altercations.
Guest9001.....I understand the majority of the blows and basically all of the one's delivered once Boyle was on the ground, were body blows. I honestly don't care about those, even if they were against the "unwritten rules of fighting in the NHL". If you disagree with that last line, you have no clue what i'm talking about as it's always said that the honourable thing to do once a guy is down on the ice in a vulnerable position, is to let up and not thrown down anymore. Regardless, it's not even the point so let's just let that rest. The original punch is what i have a problem with. Any human being who is expecting to get a bare knuckley punch to the face from another human being will try to defend themself if for no other reason than a natural reaction. I can understand a guy trying to draw a penalty and accepting a smack or a light "rabbit punch" like what Karlsson rec'd, but i've never seen a guy simply accept a full on bare knuckled punch from another guy in hopes of a penalty. Boyle had no idea that Carkner was going to sucker him the way he did!
BTW, i'm not sure where you got your definition of "sucker punch", but in my mind, it's when someone punches another without due warning whereby the person receiving the punch is surprised by it as it was unexpected. This is exactly what happened. At no point does Carkner drop the gloves and allow Boyle the time to do the same and square up for an even fight. He more or less "jumped him". If you can't see that, you're too narrow minded, biased, etc to accept it.
BTW, as far as the possibility of a guy suffering serious injury from any hit/fight is entirely true. AND, that's prob why i stated as much earlier when i said, and i quote: "If a guy is a willing combatant and gets KO'd, seriously injured, etc, i wouldn't be feeling the way i feel about this hit." I understand the dangers in playing the game. Heck, a guy can get seriously hurt by a puck deflecting and hitting his face/head! I get it, BUT, that's part of the game!!! What Carkner did is not and i will say it once more, not just directed at Joshua this time: If ANYONE doesn't understand the fact that Boyle could have been seriously injured by what Carkner did, which is not anything close to a legal play in hockey, then they need their head examined.
I'm beginning to think i'm wasting my time....... |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 22:59:14
Please watch the video it's right there for you in moving picture
At no point is Boyle given time to react or do his hand come above his waist in the 2 seconds from the time Carkner hits him to the time he is punching him in the face
Until you watch the video I can not have an educated discussion with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfVoCsZT2Iw
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:17:43
How slow do you think boyle's brain is? There are tons of hockey fights where one player drops the gloves first and the second is right behind him, I've been in a few. He CHOSE to draw a penalty and not defend himself. He had the chance to fight back and thought the 2 minutes for the team would be better. Carkner knew he was getting a penalty so he decided to "wail" on him again, in the body. |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:10:45
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9001
I guess I will use your own logic against you clatts, Since karlsson didn't have hands tied and he wasn't defenceless neither was boyle defenceless, he chose to turtle and not defend himself, again watch the clip they are body shots all except the first. And actually chickens***s are generally used to point out people who run from fights or fight with large numbers against one person.
Or people who fight unwilling opponents. If he wasn't Chikensh*t he would fight him in open ice not push him up against the glass and start wailing away without giving him time to react
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:09:37
And you're right I guess he doesn't really dummy him, but nor does neil turn away from fighting like was said above. |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:06:33
I guess I will use your own logic against you clatts, Since karlsson didn't have hands tied and he wasn't defenceless neither was boyle defenceless, he chose to turtle and not defend himself, again watch the clip they are body shots all except the first. And actually chickens***s are generally used to point out people who run from fights or fight with large numbers against one person. |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 18:44:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfVoCsZT2Iw
Above is a link for anyone who didn't see discussed plays
Joshua please view before you continue to compare what Boyle did to Karlsson in game 1 to what Carkner did to Boyle in game 2.
How is Karlsson "defenceless", where are his "hand tied"?
I think you may be blinded by your love for Karlsson
Guest9001 you should also watch the video and show me where Boyle get "dummied" by Neil? If you don't think Carkner sucker punched Boyle because Websters dictionary tells you so thats fine I looked up a word to
Chickensh*t - chickˇenˇsh*t
Noun - Someone who punches another 8 times while their hands are by side or they are on the ground
Example - Matt Carkner is a Chickensh*t
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 17:32:57
Sorry Beans, it was porkchop who called out neil for not fighting. It's also okay to cheer for those teams, well for the oil anyways. |
| Guest9001 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 17:29:53
sucker punch
This occurs when someone hits someone else from behind, usually when the person being hit doesn't know it until afterwards. Usually considered shady or a "bitch move".
Definition of SUCKER PUNCH
transitive verb
: to punch (a person) suddenly without warning and often without apparent provocation
According to above definitions and most people in the world, what Carkner did was not a sucker punch. It was a punch to the face, from the front after carkner hit him and gave him a chance to drop his gloves, of a completely aware person who made the decision to not defend himself. Boom.
He didn't need to continue punching him but it sure was entertaining and if you watch the replay they're all body shots. Also alex any nhl fight/hit has the possibility to become as dangerous as you have claimed as it is just as easy to fall and smash your head on the ice in many altercations.
And I'm not sure who it was, probably beans with his oil/leaf loving going on calling out neil, later on in the game Boyle decided to fight Neil who is more of a middleweight compared to Boyle and Carkner and neil dummied him. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 17:15:30
Well in my recent memory having been hit in the face once by another player, less than .1% of the time results in the injury you seem to think Carkner was capable of. Repeatedly beating a player while he is down like Carkner did would more likely have cause the damage your worried about. I agree the severity of the pummeling was excessive. It is the NHL not the UFC
I still maintain though if you throw a punch on a defenseless player who has his hands tied up and like Karlsson, he isnt the type to seek retribution, he may have a bigger teamate more than willing to dish it back. In this case Carkner went to far, but I still believe if you are willing to throw a punch be prepare to receive one.
I do understand why you are touchy about it. I was a fan of Bertuzzi's prior to the incident. Pretty much made me dislike the Canucks for an extended period of time. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 16:28:31
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
OMG, as close as the Bertuzzi incident as you can recall. I have never had it at your for your team and usually reserve my ribbing for T.O. players. And my ribbing is usually just in good fun.
It was in no way similar to the Bertuzzi incident and suggesting they were similar is pissing me off. Bert hit him from behind, fell into him and drove his head into the ice breaking his neck. Hey, wasn't he a Canuck at the time sticking up for one of his players who was injured months before. Berts incident cost a player a career. Carkners while dangerous did not. I dont think pummeling a guy into the ground belongs in the game and have agreed it is a suspendable play.
YES, this is in fact the closest to the Bertuzzi incident as i can recall. Feel free to refresh my memory of something closer. Sure, there was no serious injury, but don't waste your time and mine trying to convince me that Boyle couldn't have been seriously injured! As for your "ribbing" or "having it at me for my team", this has no bearing on this whatsoever!!! Bug me about the Canucks, hate on'em all you want, i don't care. It changes nothing about the way i feel about this incident.
Here's the problem you seem to have comparing the two incidents. You can't or haven't grasped the reality that this incident could have concluded with Boyle being seriously injured. He could have been KO'd and falled face first and smashed his head on the ice. He could have fallen head first and smashed his head even with the helmut and sustained a concussion or worse (possibly even a cracked skull). Until you realize just how dangerous a sucker punch like this can be, and how chickens*** it is, you will continue to be in denial!
What you also don't understand is that i prob feel this way because as a Canucks fan, i lived through the Bertuzzi incident and i'll admit that when i saw it (i was at the game), i cheered.....for about 1 minute. At that point, i realized Moore was seriously injured and it hit me, just how bad it was what Bertuzzi had done. He didn't body check him, he didn't fight him fairly, he completely jumped him unsuspectingly and it forever changed two players lives. If a guy is a willing combatant and gets KO'd, seriously injured, etc, i wouldn't be feeling the way i feel about this hit. Whether or not Boyle knew something was going to happen, i don't believe for a second that he thought the cheap shot / sucker punch was going to be coming or obviously he'd have defended himself from it!
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Anyone responding to my comments:
Do you actually think I am saying here is it is ok to pummel a player on the ground! If you think that is what I am saying you are dead wrong.
No, def not. I believe you even said or implied that you didn't agree with the punches thrown once Boyle was felled to the ice. BUT, you did seem pretty content with the original cheap shot / sucker punch, even if you didn't think it was a sucker punch. You also said that Boyle "got what he deserved", which again, i disagree with.
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I was advocating having a player on the roster who's role is sticking up for a teamate who is overmatched and not defending himself. Carkner is not the only player in the whole NHL who has come to the defense of another player and punched another player in the side of the head. Do I need to be clearer. Do you have an understanding of what I am trying to say or should I just go away.
I'm all for having team mates stick up for each other, but only if it's within the rules of the game (including a fair fight, which is technically a penalty as it's against the rules). The kind of retribution that Carkner seeked just doesn't sit well with me.
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| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 14:57:11
Fair enough joshua, now I will help you a little bit.
I fully support your opinion that teamates need to stick up for each other. And if one teamate in particular is getting a little extra abuse then for sure he or someone needs to respond.
You must not be surprised that Karlson is getting a little roughed up and maybe getting targeted by the opposition bullies. Karlson has had an outstanding season, i will go out on limb and say he is the Sens best player. If I am playing against him, knowing its his first playoffs, your damn right I am going to give him a little more attention, throw him off his game. Karlson will learn from it and certainly be able to handle it better in the future. Actually he really seems to taking his lumps and still performing quite well.
I LOVE THE OTTAWA SENATORS |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 12:40:28
OMG, as close as the Bertuzzi incident as you can recall. I have never had it at your for your team and usually reserve my ribbing for T.O. players. And my ribbing is usually just in good fun.
It was in no way similar to the Bertuzzi incident and suggesting they were similar is pissing me off. Bert hit him from behind, fell into him and drove his head into the ice breaking his neck. Hey, wasn't he a Canuck at the time sticking up for one of his players who was injured months before. Berts incident cost a player a career. Carkners while dangerous did not. I dont think pummeling a guy into the ground belongs in the game and have agreed it is a suspendable play.
Anyone responding to my comments:
Do you actually think I am saying here is it is ok to pummel a player on the ground! If you think that is what I am saying you are dead wrong. I was advocating having a player on the roster who's role is sticking up for a teamate who is overmatched and not defending himself. Carkner is not the only player in the whole NHL who has come to the defense of another player and punched another player in the side of the head. Do I need to be clearer. Do you have an understanding of what I am trying to say or should I just go away. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 12:07:14
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I approve of a player standing up for his teamate and believe hitting is happening all over the ice on both sides. If you take this as I think Carkner or company should Bertuzzi Boyle to oblivion then to hell with my right to have an opinion. That is not what I said and I just dont care anymore. Joshua out.
Although you're "out", i feel the need to reply anyway. The problem here is that from the outset you said stuff like "he did what had to be done" and "it wasn't a sucker punch". Both of these are ridiculous statements. I need not explain the sucker punch thing, but "it had to be done" is basically condoning the sucker punch itself. It's been mentioned repeatedly here that there were other ways Carkner could have exacted revenge. He chose a way in which most hockey fans don't approve. Simple as that, and THAT, is not an opinion, but a fact!
Look at the quote above where you say " I approve of a player standing up for his teamate". You then claim you didn't say he should "Bertuzzi" him. Problem is, aside from the outcome (luckily for both Boyle and Carkner it wasn't serious), this incident is as close to the Bertuzzi incident as i can recall since the Bertuzzi incident!!! What you are failing to admit, is that the action Carkner took could have easily resulted in something extremely serious injury-wise to Boyle.
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| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 08:54:14
Ok this is absolutely the last time I am rereading this post. I did not approve of the hits to a downed opponent, I am not justifying this, period. I did not say Karlsson was getting any worse than any other player on the ice, although I believe he is being targeted more because of his skill level and that is playoff hockey. I think the physical matchup is a mismatch and someone has to step in when he is being over matched, be it feeding him punches when he wont retaliate, or when he is being checked hard, dragged to the ice or buttended in the face. I approve of a player standing up for his teamate and believe hitting is happening all over the ice on both sides. If you take this as I think Carkner or company should Bertuzzi Boyle to oblivion then to hell with my right to have an opinion. That is not what I said and I just dont care anymore. Joshua out. |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 21:26:01
Joshua your sooo bias. Show me a highlight where Karlsson gets hit by Boyle with his hands at his sides...oh wait you can't. When Boyle was tapping Karlsson with his gloved hand it was ove a ref with Karlssons hands on his arms.
By the way, 3 goals in 3 games for Boyle so far, he must be a goon
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 18:59:02
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I give up. Spear him check him board him sucker punch him. I just dont care anymore.
This seems to be the largest area of disagreement. I, for one, don't think Karlsson got it any worse than any other player or more than a player deserves. Joshua obviously sees things differently.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 17:04:51
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Joshuacanada is Karlson untouchable or something. Last time I checked he is man that plays in the NHL and this is the playoffs. Is nobody allowed to rough the kid up. Like it or not hes going to get that attention especially in the playoffs.It is almost disgusting the way you are defending Carkner. Not a single player deserves a sucker punch like that. Carkner had all kinds of options to "get back" at the Rangers. He couldve taken the same liberties with the Rangers players that Boyle is taking on Karlson.
I must also mention, in typical Neil fashion he has disappeared from the anticipated rough stuff. Not man enough to step up in the real heat of the situation. Probably waiting to jump a weaker opponent from behind or drop the mitts on an unsuspecting player just like Carkner did on Boyle.
I LOVE THE OTTAWA SENATORS
Well said! Let's face it, the way everyone played him during the regular season sure as hell didn't work! |
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