| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sahis34 |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:35:44
What SHOULD shanny do to torres after his devastating hit on Hossa? |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 16:31:46
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I disagree, Torres hit was a premeditated leaping, head hunting, late blindsided attack which was agressive in nature with intent to injure and is Torres M.O. He has so many highlight reel hit's many of which were suspendable dirty plays and a few in which he was. He hasn't learned and doesn't see the consequences of his actions. His hit may well have determined the outcome of the series. I will bet he see's the big picture now. I actually expected a shorter suspension based on Shanahan's weak reaction this post season and think he needed to send a clear message to protect players.
he needed to send a clear message to protect Star players.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 11:17:59
I disagree, Torres hit was a premeditated leaping, head hunting, late blindsided attack which was agressive in nature with intent to injure and is Torres M.O. He has so many highlight reel hit's many of which were suspendable dirty plays and a few in which he was. He hasn't learned and doesn't see the consequences of his actions. His hit may well have determined the outcome of the series. I will bet he see's the big picture now. I actually expected a shorter suspension based on Shanahan's weak reaction this post season and think he needed to send a clear message to protect players. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 11:17:18
Overboard? C'mon.
There is no sport that does not react similarly for those who are repeat offenders. If a MLB player gets caught doing steroid multiple times the punishment is more severe. If a football player repeated hit opponents to the head their punishment increases every time.
What would 8 games do? Prove that the NHL has no control over their league and players can do what ever they want. This suspension was dead on right. The only thing I would like to see is more of these. If the NHL is serious about getting these kinds of hits out of the league than they need to get serious with their discipline.
Torres is not the victim and should not be treated as such. It's a good thing if Torres can't find a job because he is a dangerous player who has intentionally injured opponents on multiple occasions. Playing hockey as a profession is not a right, it's a privilege. It should be treated as a privilege and not taken for granted.
I, for one, would not miss anything about Raffi Torres if he never played another game of hockey and I wouldn't feel sorry for him for one second. I can't see how it dimishes his value. In my opinion he is already worthless.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| Lee Marshall |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 10:31:01
Yes but...I see this Raffi thing as a combination witch hunt, lynch mob thing. The ONLY reason I suggested 8 - 10 is because of PAST history. Not sure that the hit in question was as bad as the RESULT.
So...what was the 25 games for? Yesterday it seems to me.
I do agree that big suspensions are the way to send a clear message...but...it has to be warranted based on the 'current' infraction.
THIS clearly diminishes Torres' value. He may be darned close to unemployable because of this. What's next for him? 50 games? What team's gonna tie up a roster spot with that hanging overhead?
I hope he appeals. Looks to me like Shanny reacted to the mob and in doing so went overboard.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it. |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 10:13:10
quote:
Originally posted by Lee Marshall
I'm not convinced that the hit was nearly as bad as it's been made out to be. Whatshisname from Ottawa laid one out that looked very similar a couple of days ago. 25 games? Over-kill. IF there had to be a suspension...based mostly on Raffi's history as much as anything...8 - 10 games would have been plenty.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it.
Respectfully,
I am not at all convinced that even a 10 game suspension would have sent as clear and loud a message to all repeat offenders, Lee.
25 games puts ALL those guys on notice - you don't get it? We throw the book at you.
It's not like I think there haven't been missed opportunities here to make other statements (Weber's face smashing in particular), but that does not preclude me thinking this one was the correct call - a loud one, that every third and fourth liner will do well to remember.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Lee Marshall |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 09:52:47
I'm not convinced that the hit was nearly as bad as it's been made out to be. Whatshisname from Ottawa laid one out that looked very similar a couple of days ago. 25 games? Over-kill. IF there had to be a suspension...based mostly on Raffi's history as much as anything...8 - 10 games would have been plenty.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 12:35:55
I dont think they are elevating the suspension based on the order received. I think they are looking at the nature of the play, nature of the player and they are now taking into account the nature or severity of the injury. What I dont like is when there is no injury he kinda shrugs his shoulders.quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
There's def been NO consistency. NO WAY Torres deserves 5 times what others are getting (and more), even if he is a repeat offender. I hope it helps change his game though much like it did Cooke as i believe Rafi does have some skills that are usefull to a team if he can control his craziness.
I'm not even sure that if Weber had gotten say 3 games if we'd be looking at less bad hits right now but it couldn't have been any worse! My question is, now that Torres has been hammered by this suspension, what happens to the next guy, especially if he's a superstar or even above avg offender? Let's say for example, David Backes creams someone with a hit like Bitz got Clifford with. Is he gonna get 3? 5? 15? THAT'S what i'm looking forward to seeing!
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 11:06:36
There's def been NO consistency. NO WAY Torres deserves 5 times what others are getting (and more), even if he is a repeat offender. I hope it helps change his game though much like it did Cooke as i believe Rafi does have some skills that are usefull to a team if he can control his craziness.
I'm not even sure that if Weber had gotten say 3 games if we'd be looking at less bad hits right now but it couldn't have been any worse! My question is, now that Torres has been hammered by this suspension, what happens to the next guy, especially if he's a superstar or even above avg offender? Let's say for example, David Backes creams someone with a hit like Bitz got Clifford with. Is he gonna get 3? 5? 15? THAT'S what i'm looking forward to seeing! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 11:03:35
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7792
shanahan is all over the place with these suspensions. if you compare the hit to others, Keith on Hank for example, I dont see it being 5 times worse. Even with him being a repeat offender it doesn't make sense. don't get me wrong the hits to the head are turning me off the game and now living in the uk I am watching more football than hockey nowadays. i think there is a website, shanabans dot com or something - was following all suspensions he gave out. If i had time it would be interesting to review the season because it seems brendan has been on the pipe for a lot of it.
It's not about the hit being 5 times worse. It's about the action and the player involved.
To those who think the Keith suspension was 'soft', consider any other player in the history of the league who went from being known as a reasonably clean player with very few PIM's considering they minutes played who had their very first disciplinary action being a 5 game suspension.
It doesn't happen often. For that matter 5 games for Keith is comparable to 25 for Torres considering this is his 5th suspension. I would expect that Keith would get 25 games if he was suspended 3 times in one year for the same type of hit.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| Guest7792 |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 09:27:56
shanahan is all over the place with these suspensions. if you compare the hit to others, Keith on Hank for example, I dont see it being 5 times worse. Even with him being a repeat offender it doesn't make sense. don't get me wrong the hits to the head are turning me off the game and now living in the uk I am watching more football than hockey nowadays. i think there is a website, shanabans dot com or something - was following all suspensions he gave out. If i had time it would be interesting to review the season because it seems brendan has been on the pipe for a lot of it. |
| Guest9782 |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 19:01:55
ha hhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 21:54:16
quote:
Originally posted by Russcores
Still the suspensions to the offending player only hurts the player by not playing and the pocket book in the regular season. It still does not seem to stop certain players from dishing out these cheap shot predatory type actions. I believe that if these players were to hurt the teams chances at winning some of his teamates may step up and police the actions themselves. I think that for the length of the suspension the team can not fill his roster spot in the line-up , thus leaving his teamates playing the game with less players available. In the playoffs especially this would create a disadvantage for his team for the duration of the suspension .
Any thoughts on how that scenario may affect a players decision on crossing the line too far ? Or the veterans on the team policing there own bad apples ?
Russcores.....you from Van by any chance?  i Heard a caller to the team1040 suggest the same thing the other day whereby a team would play one roster spot down for the length of the suspension!
I was pleasantly surprised at the length of the suspension to Torres, but i have to say it really makes it look like Shanny missed the boat on some of the others. Really wish a guy like Torres or Carkner was the first brutal hit of the playoffs, rather than Weber. At least then there might have been a little more consistency??? |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:35:01
There will always be some inequality due to the situation . . . obviously, losing Torres for that amount of games doesn't hurt Phoenix as much as Hossa for a fraction of that amount. But not much can be done about that.
What can - and WAS done - is make the length of suspension so onerous for these 3rd and 4th liners, that they either never do it again, or, teams sour super-quick on wasting money for these guys. And this is the right call, 25 games for a guy who REALLY doesn't get it, and who is a head hunting guy who is only out there to take out star players.
Good on Shanahan.
Now, do I wish he had given Weber a 2 game suspension? Yep. Do I think Keith deserved a game or two himself for that elbow? Yep. But . . . it's not a perfect world, and the thing those guys have in common is that they are star players for their team with little to no history at all of reckless behaviour. It doesn't condone it, but . . . at least a hockey fan can feel like the really bad apples are getting appropriately thrown out.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Russcores |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:10:48
Still the suspensions to the offending player only hurts the player by not playing and the pocket book in the regular season. It still does not seem to stop certain players from dishing out these cheap shot predatory type actions. I believe that if these players were to hurt the teams chances at winning some of his teamates may step up and police the actions themselves. I think that for the length of the suspension the team can not fill his roster spot in the line-up , thus leaving his teamates playing the game with less players available. In the playoffs especially this would create a disadvantage for his team for the duration of the suspension .
Any thoughts on how that scenario may affect a players decision on crossing the line too far ? Or the veterans on the team policing there own bad apples ? |
| Clatts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 17:12:11
25 games is a lot, I have no problem with it as long as it is the new standard. I'm not sure you can go from giving Weber a fine and Carkner 1 game and then give Torres 25 games.
But it goes to show you can't hurt star players
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 16:59:38
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Almost 3rd of his salary, poof gone, should the Coyotes have an early exit. Shanahan sure sent a message. Glad the message was sent. Might clean up a lot for round 2.
Actually I read where the CBA does not allow fines during the playoffs because the players only make bonus money in the playoffs not regular salary.
So if the suspension is carried over to the regular season next yr Torres gets fined 21,000 per game, no fine during the playoffs.
I LOVE THE OTTAWA SENATORS |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 15:04:50
quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked
Good job Shanny! Hopefully, this trend is the start, and players 'get it', before anyone else gets hurt.
That is really the heart of it. While I applaud this suspension to Torres, the reality is that its only going to be meaningful if Shanny continues to dish out hard suspension for dangerous plays, and that this is the beginning of something new - not just a one off chance to make a statement.
|
| fat_elvis_rocked |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 14:19:58
That is exactly the right suspension in my opinion, backed up wonderfully with the Shanahan's explanation of intent, and more importantly history.
I am not sure if I would go so far as to call Torres a piece of crap, but he certainly does deserve this length of suspension and can hopefully reform his game.
Good job Shanny! Hopefully, this trend is the start, and players 'get it', before anyone else gets hurt. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:25:57
Almost 3rd of his salary, poof gone, should the Coyotes have an early exit. Shanahan sure sent a message. Glad the message was sent. Might clean up a lot for round 2. |
| semin-rules |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:04:41
I bet this will get the message across to Torres, just like it did with Matt Cooke. He turned his whole game around this year, and I am sure this will be an eye opener for Torres if he wants to stay in this league. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 12:54:25
Shanahan finally got a decision correct in the playoffs. I watched the entire video and it's hard to argue anything that Shanahan says.
25 games is more than I expected but I actually think that's a good thing. Torres is simply dangerous. He continuously feed that finished my check crap and has never shown remorse for any injury he dished out.
He's a piece of crap who deserves everything he has gotten.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| freddyboy |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 09:10:13
NEW YORK -- Phoenix Coyotes forward Raffi Torres has been suspended for 25 games for launching himself to deliver a late hit to the head of Chicago Blackhawks forward Marian Hossa during Game 3 of the teams' Western Conference Quarterfinal playoff series in Chicago on Tuesday, April 17, the National Hockey League's Department of Player Safety announced today.
Should the 25 games not be served by the conclusion of the 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs, the remaining games of the suspension will carry over into the following regular season. Torres will be prohibited from playing in any preseason games until he has served this 25-game suspension (playoff and regular-season games).
Should the suspension carry over to next season, because he is classified as a repeat offender under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Torres will forfeit $21,341.46 in salary for every regular-season game in which he is ineligible to play.
The incident occurred at 11:42 of the first period. Hossa suffered an injury as a result of the hit.
Torres already has served one game of this suspension, Game 4 of the series in Chicago on Thursday, April 19. For a full explanation of the decision, complete with video, please click on the following link: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=173753.
joe is a god, if u dont agree....i dont care |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 20:05:26
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0168
Alex do you only respond to Bean's posts and get frustrated with all the others? Looking at a couple other topic this happened.
No, not at all. In fact, if you looked at more than just a couple, you'd see how far off base you are with that comment. I'm not about to waste my time showing you examples. They're there if you wanna see them. |
| Guest0168 |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 14:25:16
Alex do you only respond to Bean's posts and get frustrated with all the others? Looking at a couple other topic this happened.
With that aside, IMO Torres hit was very dirty and should deserve at least 6 playoff games if not more, transitioning into the next season. Shanny, bring down the hammer. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 10:17:03
I have just decided to keep this topic about Torres and not respond to what if's already discussed about on another thread. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 22:39:24
Beans, fair enough. I def exaggerated my feeling saying it was "unfathomable" when in fact you're correct, any coach would come to his players defence.
Joshua....no offense, but your most recent post is pathetic. It's unworthy of a response and wreaks of you finally admitting you're wrong but just won't admit it. I'm done arguing with a guy who can't admit the truth.
Now I'M OUT! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 14:47:11
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Fair enough Beans, but a 2 min minor? Have a look at both hits. Then tell me this. At high speed, which one is more obviously a suspendable hit, a penalty for sure, etc? I think it's just as bad that Keith only got 2mins as it is that Torres went unpenalized. I didn't see the Torres hit when it happened, only on replays later but i heard it was instantly debated as to it's brutality. Some still say it wasn't a head shot and that it was more of a whiplash injury from the force of the hit and that the illegal part was the charging part of it (leaving his feet). I'm not saying both weren't brutal, but the disgraceful reffing that Quenville referred to is was just as bad, if not worse on the Keith hit!
When you get to crap hits, does it matter which one is worse??
Kidding aside, the elbow that Keith threw was pretty gross. Appearance wise, it was harder to watch than the Torres hit. However, I don't think Quinville ever said otherwise, did he?? You can't really fault a coach for not throwing his own player under the bus, can you??
I think AV would like make the same kind of comments if he was in Quinville's shoes so I don't see the value in the comments. Coaches back their own teams and that is what Quinville did.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 11:56:54
Ok, since we are using what if's here, do you think Jesus woulda been a 1st line scorer or a 4th line checker.
Either way whats done is done and 1 player is injured and the other is not.
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 09:45:37
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
So what your saying is a player throwing a punch against another player is worse than an openice headshot at full speed, where a player leaves his feet and the other play is caught unaware with his head down. Ok. I dont agree, but if thats your opinion fine. One player left on a stretcher and the other returned on another shift and score a goal. Imagine Carkner was on the Blackhawks on Torres shift after that hit and punched Torres once knocking him to the ground. No injury to Torres but Chicago feels a measurment of justice for an illegal play by Torres.
Sure Joshua, but while we're imagining this, why don't you imagine this........When Carkner punches Torres once as you put it, Torres is KO'd, falls head first to the ice and suffers a career changine concussion. You keep referencing back to Boyle not being injured by the sucker punch and refuse to aknowledge that he could have been seriously hurt from what was more of an "assault" than it was a "hockey play".
Torres is a bad example because he's a repeat offender with a reputation of a headhunter. Take for instance the Brown hit on Sedin. Now, "WHAT IF" he hit him a couple inches higher (total headshot)? Or what if Sedin had his head down a litte more as he turned? Again, total head shot! Now that play, that is already borderline legal, becomes totally illegal, yet he was attempting to make a clean body check that missed or one that he'd committed to when Sedin lowered his head. Either way, he's still punished severely for a headshot. BUT, at least it occured as he was trying to make a legal hockey play. Explain to me how Carkners sucker punch was even remotely legal!!! |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:34:05
So what your saying is a player throwing a punch against another player is worse than an openice headshot at full speed, where a player leaves his feet and the other play is caught unaware with his head down. Ok. I dont agree, but if thats your opinion fine. One player left on a stretcher and the other returned on another shift and score a goal. Imagine Carkner was on the Blackhawks on Torres shift after that hit and punched Torres once knocking him to the ground. No injury to Torres but Chicago feels a measurment of justice for an illegal play by Torres. |
| @valanche |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:18:36
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
You argued against a player on the roster standing up for a skilled teamate and throwing a punch. Although a punch is a penalized game infraction it is not nearly as dangerous as an open ice check at full speed. I cant help it if you arent able to understand my arguement or unwilling to hear my side of a debate.
i disagree completely. punching an unsuspecting victim or unwilling participant (asham, carkner) is not a hockey play. this is what needs to be removed from the game as it is intent to injure and complete cheap shots. at least an open ice hit is a part of the game whether or not hossa wanted to get hit. (not saying the hit was clean it is a suspension based on torres leaving his feet and targeting the head)
66 is > than 99 |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 07:49:28
Hey Clatts, reread the post you talked about in the Carkner debate. I posted this comment there as well where I suggested the skilled players decide the outcome of the game, not the illegal plays and supported a suspension of Carkner. You argued against a player on the roster standing up for a skilled teamate and throwing a punch. Although a punch is a penalized game infraction it is not nearly as dangerous as an open ice check at full speed. I cant help it if you arent able to understand my arguement or unwilling to hear my side of a debate.quote:
Originally posted by Clatts
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Like I have stated in other posts, I'd like these series to be decided by the skilled players on the ice not the players taken from the roster by an illegal play.
Funny, in the Carkner thread you seem to be a huge fan of illegal plays
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
|
| Guest4793 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 22:22:53
I am no fan of Torres and certainly like that he is suspended, and deservedly so. I believe his intent was to aim high without regard for Hossa's head (meaning it was a head shot)
where i think the league fails though, is that I see lots of late hits after guys dump the puck in. Its just that they arent unsuspecting or it doesnt result in such a devastating hit (usually).
I think the refs/league lose some legitimacy when they allow body checking late like that.
that Torres was targeting and trying to level a star player isnt his crime in my opinion and shouldnt be held against him. Browns hit on Hank Sedin for me was a clean hard hit and if Sedin was injured in the play, then thats hockey.
That Torres did so in a cheap manner, late and high warrants the suspension.
thats my two cents.
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| Clatts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 21:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Like I have stated in other posts, I'd like these series to be decided by the skilled players on the ice not the players taken from the roster by an illegal play.
Funny, in the Carkner thread you seem to be a huge fan of illegal plays
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 18:35:18
Fair enough Beans, but a 2 min minor? Have a look at both hits. Then tell me this. At high speed, which one is more obviously a suspendable hit, a penalty for sure, etc? I think it's just as bad that Keith only got 2mins as it is that Torres went unpenalized. I didn't see the Torres hit when it happened, only on replays later but i heard it was instantly debated as to it's brutality. Some still say it wasn't a head shot and that it was more of a whiplash injury from the force of the hit and that the illegal part was the charging part of it (leaving his feet). I'm not saying both weren't brutal, but the disgraceful reffing that Quenville referred to is was just as bad, if not worse on the Keith hit! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 17:55:47
Hey Alex, not to condone the Keith hit, but there was a penalty called on that play wasn't there?
There wasn't a penalty called on the Torres hit. For that matter, it's pretty hard to argue Quinvilles comments.v
He do 4 guys miss that hit?
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 16:51:18
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Slozo brings up a point that was discussed briefly in the past. What is the repercussion to a team in this case? If they lose Torres for the rest of the series it is unlikely that changed the outcome of the series. The Hawks losing Hossa for the rest of the series will change the outcome. The most difficult question to answer is how to make that equitable. Do you let the opposition chose the player to sit out? Perhaps teams and coaches would hold their players more accountable if it wasn't only the player causing the incident doing the time. Say if Torres gets 5 games, the Hawks could pick any PHX player to sit out those game. What is the likelihood that PHX wins the series with Smith serving those 5 games?
To all those who might say that's not fair, ask Marion Hossa how fair it is that he was carted off on a stretcher. Ask Marc Savard how fair it is that his career is basically over. It's a out stopping this crap from happening In a game and, based on this years playoffs, the current strategy is not working at all.
Beans....a couple of things to note. First, interesting idea about teams picking the player to sit, though i think superstars like Crosby, Stamkos, etc would be spending a lot of time sitting as they'd be the obvious choices each and every time a guy on their respected teams got punished! Second, i heard a really good suggestion yesterday, that being, the team has to play a man short for each game that player is suspended. In other words, they could only dress 17 instead of 18 skaters for the entire length of the suspension. Not sure that would solve the problem, but it would make it a little more interesting either way!
What i'm having a hard time fathoming, and i'm not sure if it's been discussed in any thread so far today, is the response Quenville had last night to the hit on Hossa. His disgust at the "disgraceful refereeing" and the brutality of the Torres hit on Hossa, etc is just, but kinda laughable at the same time when you consider the Keith hit on Sedin. I guess it's the memory of convenience that we often see. |
| Guest2187 |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 15:39:23
no I totally agree just saying like If it was cooke who hit Schenn instead of Asham ... although he had a clean season does it still mean its 3+ more games then what Asham got? |
| foolpittier |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 15:14:11
Late but clean
|
| semin-rules |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 14:56:12
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2187
Im confused with this repeat offender ruling because say Cooke laid the hit ... with all the changes he made and the clean season he has had the repeat offender makes the suspension automatically 6 games? No way to wipe the slate clean? Just doesn't seem fair to me. If Jagr makes a dirty hit are they gonna take things into consideration from the 90's (dunno if there is actually a history lol)
Torres got suspended twice this season, I think those offences are still relevant if you ask me! |
