| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 11:27:29
Here is a list of the players in the league that will be getting $6 million or more for the 07/08 season. (Found at nhlnumbers.com, so I am not sure if it's 100% accurate, but it appears pretty close!)
If your opinion, which 5 are worth every penny in the group and who are the 5 players that do not belong at all?? Try to use today's NHL economics. None of that, "No one is worth that much money!"
Vanek $10.0 Million
Gomez $10.0 Million
Briere $10.0 Million
Jagr $8.4 Million
Timonen $8.0 Million
Richards $7.8 Million
Lidstrom $7.6 Million
Smyth $7.5 Million
Chara $7.5 Million
Elias $7.5 Million
McCabe $7.2 Million
Lecavalier $7.2 Million
Drury $7.1 Million
Iginla $7.0 Million
Jovonovski $7.0 Million
Marian Hossa $7.0 Million
Sakic $6.8 Million
S. Niedermayer $6.8 Million
Khabibulin $6.8 Million
J. Thorton $6.7 Million
Datsyuk $6.7 Million
Gaborik $6.5 Million
Luongo $6.5 Million
Redden $6.5 Million
Souray $6.3 Million
Pronger $6.3 Million
Fedorov $6.1 Million
Naslund $6.0 Million
Theodore $6.0 Million
R. Blake $6.0 Million
Havlat $6.0 Million
Rafalski $6.0 Million
Kariya $6.0 Million
St. Louis $6.0 Million
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Jeremy12 |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 17:46:20
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
I never looked a t Jovanovski as an great offensive threat, he had some good output in Vancouver, but his offence has declined. Last season it look as though he was on the rebound...
I feel he was best known for his ability to hit players, and carrying the puck was not a bad asset either...
Is he worth 7.0 million, I do not think so...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
He is definantly not, maybe around 4 million, but he is juts taking up to much cap space and need to say "hey I'm willing to decrease my salary so we can bring in more players for this club."
[IMG]http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x49/Jeremy12_24/spezza_sig21.jpg[/IMG] |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 17:29:37
I never looked a t Jovanovski as an great offensive threat, he had some good output in Vancouver, but his offence has declined. Last season it look as though he was on the rebound...
I feel he was best known for his ability to hit players, and carrying the puck was not a bad asset either...
Is he worth 7.0 million, I do not think so...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
| willus3 |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 14:38:45
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Willus, I am stating stats for the sake of backing up my arguement. Living in Edmonton, I watched him at least 8 times a year. That doesn't count the games I would catch on HNIC or on Sportsnet Pacific. I have seen Jovo play enough to have a judgement.
I find him not very good positionally on defense, and I see him taking very stupid penalties in bad times. And the fact that the other 3 top defensive players are substantially higher than he is tell a story. Or is Jovo playing by himself on the back end??
And again, I am not saying he is absolutely horrible, he is a decent defender. But is he a $7 million man?? Not a chance. That is in the class of Neidermayer, Pronger, and Lidstrom. His name does not belong with those guys in my books.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997.
You didn't know Jovo plays defense without a partner? Why do you think I think he's so good. 
No he definitely doesn't belong in the 7 Million club.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 12:23:45
Willus, I am stating stats for the sake of backing up my arguement. Living in Edmonton, I watched him at least 8 times a year. That doesn't count the games I would catch on HNIC or on Sportsnet Pacific. I have seen Jovo play enough to have a judgement.
I find him not very good positionally on defense, and I see him taking very stupid penalties in bad times. And the fact that the other 3 top defensive players are substantially higher than he is tell a story. Or is Jovo playing by himself on the back end??
And again, I am not saying he is absolutely horrible, he is a decent defender. But is he a $7 million man?? Not a chance. That is in the class of Neidermayer, Pronger, and Lidstrom. His name does not belong with those guys in my books.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| leigh |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 10:08:06
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5446
On Leigh's post, I thought rookie contracts are capped with bonuses to 1.85M? How come Malkin and Crosby are well over that amount?
without taking a second look I'm guessing performance bonuses |
| willus3 |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 09:44:16
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Willus, you missed Gretzky on your list!! hehehehehehe
And I never denied Gaborik makes Minny a far better team, but if he's not playing all the time, I don't think he's worth that much money. He is one of my favorite players.
Seriously, I've never seen the why there was so much hype over Jovonovski. And I agree that playing on weak teams doesn't help a defenseman. I would totally agree with that last year. He was one of the better players on Phoenix. But I would have been one of the better players with Phoenix as well.
Looking through his past that I have found, 05/06 he was -8 with 33 points in 44 games. Salo, Carney, and Baumgartnder all played on the same team and had double the +/-. Salo had similar points.
04/05 Jovonovski was +2 in 56 games and had 23 points. Ohlund, Salo, and Sopel all had more points and a better +/-. Malik was +35 on that team!!
02/03 was his best year at 67 games, 46 points, and plus 19.
My point is that he has rarely been the best d-man on his team let alone one of the best in the league. At for him to be getting $7 million, that's the elite, top 3 or 4 d-men in the league. Jovo does not belong on that list.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997.
I was referring to guys whose career was shortened by injuries.
Remember Beans, Jovanoski was the top d-man on those teams. You can't necessarily compare him straight up to his other team mates as he would have been playing more minutes and against the other teams top lines game in game out. Watch him play and then say one way or the other, but don't just use his stats to come to the conclusions you are.
I remember watching him almost completely shut down Lindros in the playoffs one year and thats when Lindros was flying. Not an easy thing to do. I think Ed is better than you are estimating.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/05/2007 : 06:20:27
Willus, you missed Gretzky on your list!! hehehehehehe
And I never denied Gaborik makes Minny a far better team, but if he's not playing all the time, I don't think he's worth that much money. He is one of my favorite players.
Seriously, I've never seen the why there was so much hype over Jovonovski. And I agree that playing on weak teams doesn't help a defenseman. I would totally agree with that last year. He was one of the better players on Phoenix. But I would have been one of the better players with Phoenix as well.
Looking through his past that I have found, 05/06 he was -8 with 33 points in 44 games. Salo, Carney, and Baumgartnder all played on the same team and had double the +/-. Salo had similar points.
04/05 Jovonovski was +2 in 56 games and had 23 points. Ohlund, Salo, and Sopel all had more points and a better +/-. Malik was +35 on that team!!
02/03 was his best year at 67 games, 46 points, and plus 19.
My point is that he has rarely been the best d-man on his team let alone one of the best in the league. At for him to be getting $7 million, that's the elite, top 3 or 4 d-men in the league. Jovo does not belong on that list.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| willus3 |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 19:59:27
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Jovo a good player?? When?? Where? His best season is 46 points and +19. He's a career (-) player and it doesn't matter what team he was one. He has had only 2 of 12 years as a (+) player.
I've actually always like Jovo. i don't think his stats reflect how good he actually is. He's never really been on a decent team.
quote:
And to say that Gaborik is worth his money is a little bit of a stretch. Part of playing hockey is being able to play the whole season, which Gaborik hasn't been able to do in 3 years. How many players out there would a GM pay $6+ million to play in 50 games???
I can only think of two. Orr and Lemieux.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Guest5446 |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 19:52:34
quote:
Originally posted by PainTrain
And for the Gaborik thing if you notice the team does do much better when he is playing. If they can get a whole season out of him in my mind he is worth every penny.
No Sacrifice , No Victory!
Actually Minny played better with Gabby, their records indicates that at 34-14 with Gabby or a winning percentage of 70.8% vs Minny's record of 14-20 without or a winning percentage of 41.2%. And the same reason you indicate Havlat is worth it, Gabby should be worth it.
Beans,
Jovo is a good player. Not great, good. Why is his +/- in the negative? Because he played in front of bad goalies or with bad teams. Imagine Jovo playing in front of Luongo? I'm sure his +/- would go up. With the exception of the Canucks with Naslund at his peak powers with big bad Bert, he hasn't played with a team with any real offense either. Again Jovo is good. Not great. Note also, I've put him in the not worth it category.
On Leigh's post, I thought rookie contracts are capped with bonuses to 1.85M? How come Malkin and Crosby are well over that amount? |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 19:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmire
Elias over Lecavalier? Drury over Lecavalier and Iginla? I don't think so.
Kashmire if that was referring to what I said just so you know I put those in no particular order I just listed the players who are worth there money.
No Sacrifice , No Victory! |
| leigh |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 17:54:13
I just found this really interesting link. It lists the NHL's most and least valuable players based on their salary. Basically it details how much they cost their team based on; games, ice time, points, pims etc. It is out dated right now (April 9, 07) but still pretty cool! And somewhat relevant to the topic at hand.
check it out: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/rankings/HockeysMostandLeastValuable/list.jsp?
You'll notice that no one making more than $2 million or more crack the top 100. |
| Kashmire |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 16:03:06
Elias over Lecavalier? Drury over Lecavalier and Iginla? I don't think so. |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 15:33:51
Good topic Beans!
Players who are worth it!
Lidtrom
Elias
Drury
Lecavalier
Iginla
S.Niedermayer
J.Thornton
Havlat
Players who aren't worth it!
Vanek(Hasn't proved himself to get 10.0 million a year)
Timonen
Smyth(Never been more than a point a game)
McCabe(If you pay by amount of turnovers)
Marian Hossa(Can't play in playoffs)
Souray(Great Shot,Stupid Defence)
Theodore(Too much for a backup)
And for the Gaborik thing if you notice the team does do much better when he is playing. If they can get a whole season out of him in my mind he is worth every penny.
No Sacrifice , No Victory! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 13:06:36
Jovo a good player?? When?? Where? His best season is 46 points and +19. He's a career (-) player and it doesn't matter what team he was one. He has had only 2 of 12 years as a (+) player.
And to say that Gaborik is worth his money is a little bit of a stretch. Part of playing hockey is being able to play the whole season, which Gaborik hasn't been able to do in 3 years. How many players out there would a GM pay $6+ million to play in 50 games???
Not many.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| Guest8372 |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 12:21:54
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Player…… Cash/Year $/Point... $/Game
J.Thornton 6.70 Million $58,771.930 $81,707.32
St. Louis 6.00 Million $58,823.529 $73,170.73
Lecavalier 7.20 Million $66,666.667 $87,804.88
Sakic….. 6.80 Million $68,000.000 $82,926.83
M. Hossa….. 7.00 Million $70,000.000 $85,365.85
Iginla…. 7.00 Million $74,468.085 $100,000.00
Datsyuk….. 6.70 Million $77,011.494 $84,810.13
Kariya….. 6.00 Million $78,947.368 $73,170.73
Jagr…….. 8.40 Million $87,500.000 $102,439.02
Naslund.. 6.00 Million $100,000.000 $73,170.73
Drury….. 7.10 Million $102,898.551 $92,207.79
Havlat….. 6.00 Million $105,263.158 $107,142.86
Briere….. 10.00 Million $105,263.158 $123,456.79
Elias….. 7.50 Million $108,695.652 $100,000.00
Smyth….. 7.50 Million $110,294.118 $105,633.80
Richards 7.80 Million $111,428.571 $95,121.95
Gaborik….. 6.50 Million $114,035.088 $135,416.67
Vanek….. 10.00 Million $119,047.619 $121,951.22
Fedorov….. 6.10 Million $145,238.095 $83,561.64
Gomez….. 10.00 Million $166,666.667 $138,888.89
Sorted by dollars per point based on 2006/07 points.
Assuming that the Forwards listed get the same # of points as last season.
Salary as per Beans post...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
Not sure if it is really fair to assume that the player will get as many points as previous year. Maybe $/point per game would be a better measure. So a player making $8M per year and scoring pace is 1 point per game would be 8M. Where as a player at $8M per year with a scoring pace of 2 points per game would be at 4M.
For example, take Gaborik, he only played 48 games and racked up about 57 points. Havlat and Iginla are other good examples, 56 games 57 points and 70 games 94 points.
You can't assume they will be hurt half the year again. So Gaborik $/point per game would be 5.05M. Havlat would be 5.89M, Thornton would be 4.82M, Lecavlier 5.46M, St-Louis 4.82M, Iginla 5.21M.
Note the lower the number the better.
So worth it
Forwards:
Iggy
Gabby
Thornton
St-Louis
Sakic
Hossa
D-men and Goalies:
Lidstrom
Prongs
Nieds
Luongo
Not worth it:
Theodore - ultimate flash in the pan
Redden - I'll cut him slack due to family issues
Vanek - $10M, no but back at around $5 or 6M sure.
Naslund - ouch hope he doesn't have 3 consecutive bad seasons
Jovo - good player on a really bad team though, how would he measure if he was on a contender? Hard to tell.
Federov - Isn't this his last year of the contract?
Some players salaries are set up to be bought out. Briere, Timonen and Gomez if bought out at the last 2 years would give the team a credit to the cap space in certain years (if I remember the calculations and salaries correctly). |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/04/2007 : 09:28:44
Wow, Souray had the 2nd cheapest $ per Point and the cheapest $ per block shot.
Interesting.....
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 20:18:10
Player…… Cash/Year $ per Blocked shots
Souray…… 6.30 Million $42,281.88
R. Blake…… 6.00 Million $47,244.09
McCabe…… 7.20 Million $51,428.57
Rafalski…… 6.00 Million $52,631.58
Redden…… 6.50 Million $53,278.69
Chara…….. 7.50 Million $55,970.15
Pronger…… 6.30 Million $60,576.92
Timonen…… 8.00 Million $69,565.22
Lidstrom…… 7.60 Million $80,000.00
S. Niedermayer 6.80 Million $98,550.72
Jovonovski 7.00 Million $98,591.55
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 20:06:26
Player…… Cash/Year $/Point... $/Game
J.Thornton 6.70 Million $58,771.930 $81,707.32
St. Louis 6.00 Million $58,823.529 $73,170.73
Lecavalier 7.20 Million $66,666.667 $87,804.88
Sakic….. 6.80 Million $68,000.000 $82,926.83
M. Hossa….. 7.00 Million $70,000.000 $85,365.85
Iginla…. 7.00 Million $74,468.085 $100,000.00
Datsyuk….. 6.70 Million $77,011.494 $84,810.13
Kariya….. 6.00 Million $78,947.368 $73,170.73
Jagr…….. 8.40 Million $87,500.000 $102,439.02
Naslund.. 6.00 Million $100,000.000 $73,170.73
Drury….. 7.10 Million $102,898.551 $92,207.79
Havlat….. 6.00 Million $105,263.158 $107,142.86
Briere….. 10.00 Million $105,263.158 $123,456.79
Elias….. 7.50 Million $108,695.652 $100,000.00
Smyth….. 7.50 Million $110,294.118 $105,633.80
Richards 7.80 Million $111,428.571 $95,121.95
Gaborik….. 6.50 Million $114,035.088 $135,416.67
Vanek….. 10.00 Million $119,047.619 $121,951.22
Fedorov….. 6.10 Million $145,238.095 $83,561.64
Gomez….. 10.00 Million $166,666.667 $138,888.89
Sorted by dollars per point based on 2006/07 points.
Assuming that the Forwards listed get the same # of points as last season.
Salary as per Beans post...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
| willus3 |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 19:29:56
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Player… Cash/Year $/Point... $/Game
R. Blake…… 6.00 Million $86,956.522 $73,170.73
Souray…… 6.30 Million $98,437.500 $77,777.78
S. Niedermayer 6.80 Million $98,550.725 $86,075.95
Pronger…… 6.30 Million $106,779.661 $95,454.55
Rafalski…… 6.00 Million $109,090.909 $73,170.73
Lidstrom…… 7.60 Million $122,580.645 $95,000.00
McCabe…… 7.20 Million $126,315.789 $87,804.88
Timonen…… 8.00 Million $145,454.545 $100,000.00
Chara…….. 7.50 Million $174,418.605 $93,750.00
Redden…… 6.50 Million $180,555.556 $101,562.50
Jovonovski 7.00 Million $241,379.310 $129,629.63
Sorted by dollars per point based on 2006/07 points.
Assuming that the D Men listed get the same # of points as last season.
Blake turns out to be the best value, and Jovonovski the worst.
Salary as per Beans post...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
It's interesting to see it broken down like that. Points are quite expensive evidently.
How about a cost per blocked shot?
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:23:35
Player… Cash/Year $/Point... $/Game
R. Blake…… 6.00 Million $86,956.522 $73,170.73
Souray…… 6.30 Million $98,437.500 $77,777.78
S. Niedermayer 6.80 Million $98,550.725 $86,075.95
Pronger…… 6.30 Million $106,779.661 $95,454.55
Rafalski…… 6.00 Million $109,090.909 $73,170.73
Lidstrom…… 7.60 Million $122,580.645 $95,000.00
McCabe…… 7.20 Million $126,315.789 $87,804.88
Timonen…… 8.00 Million $145,454.545 $100,000.00
Chara…….. 7.50 Million $174,418.605 $93,750.00
Redden…… 6.50 Million $180,555.556 $101,562.50
Jovonovski 7.00 Million $241,379.310 $129,629.63
Sorted by dollars per point based on 2006/07 points.
Assuming that the D Men listed get the same # of points as last season.
Blake turns out to be the best value, and Jovonovski the worst.
Salary as per Beans post...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 15:44:23
Willus, I agree. Souray would be if he had a defensive edge to him, but not at -29 or what ever he was last year. Smyth, definately not. Blake's last year on his contract too. He will retire in the off season. The only reason him and Thodore have not been bought out is because it's too much money. Also, does the new rules not also say that if you buy out a contract, half of the total contract is still hit against the cap??
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| Kashmire |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 15:11:49
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Wow Kash, I would have made almost the exact same list.
The only difference would have been my runner up for not worth is would have not been Elias. Reason being is when he is 100% health, he is a point a game guy.
My runner up would have been Timonen. $8 million a year makes him the highest paid defenseman in the league! Not only is he 32 years old, but he's a career (-) player. Sure he has some offensive touch, but c'mon. He's not in the same class as Lidstrom, Pronger, or Niedermayer.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997.
Yeah, that pick was a little biased. I just don't like him. At all. Gionta was my favourite of the three (Gomez, Elias, Gionta) He would be good with some big guys.
Antropov - Sundin - Gionta??  
His size really kills him though. Meh I didn't like Gionta that much anyways. |
| willus3 |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 14:55:21
Ah, the six million dollar men...
Worth every penny:
Lidstrom
Niedermeyer
Iginla
Sakic
Thornton
Runner up:
Lecavalier
Don't belong:
Briere
Smyth
Souray
Theodore
Blake (time to put him out to pasture)
Runner up:
Fedorov (if he isn't motivated)
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 13:48:53
Wow Kash, I would have made almost the exact same list.
The only difference would have been my runner up for not worth is would have not been Elias. Reason being is when he is 100% health, he is a point a game guy.
My runner up would have been Timonen. $8 million a year makes him the highest paid defenseman in the league! Not only is he 32 years old, but he's a career (-) player. Sure he has some offensive touch, but c'mon. He's not in the same class as Lidstrom, Pronger, or Niedermayer.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| Kashmire |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 13:22:07
Do not belong.
Theodore $6.0 Million
Gomez $10.0 Million
Khabibulin $6.8 Million
Briere $10.0 Million
Jovonovski $7.0 Million
Runner's Up
Elias $7.5 Million
McCabe $7.2 Million
Worth every penny.
Lecavalier $7.2 Million
Lidstrom $7.6 Million
Iginla $7.0 Million
Luongo $6.5 Million
Pronger $6.3 Million
Runner's Up
St. Louis $6.0 Million
J. Thornton $6.7 Million
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