| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 10/07/2007 : 11:01:23
My question is, what player has no help but still produces?
I say Simon Gagne. Simon Gagne has racked up 202 goals with the help of who?Knuble?
Yes, he had Forsberg for a season and a half. But that's not that much.
Last season he proved his importance. Scoring 41 goals basically by himself. Now you think, Cheechoo scored 56 goals in a whole season with Thornton and when he didn't play with Thornton the seasons before he was a 20 goal scorer. Gagne is a 30-40 goal scorer by HIMSELF! Throw him with Thornton and he could be putting up 60 goals.
No Sacrifice , No Victory! |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 17:37:39
I agree with the Marc Savard thing. He gets no respect from anyone...he has never even been mentioned as a potential member of Team Canada at any level since junior.
I do know a couple of guys in hockey circles who say his problem is his attitude and his inability to get along with his own teammmates. I have never seen this publically, but you get the feeling there has to be something to it, because for a guy with his type of production, he's a relative unknown. |
| Guest9629 |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:21:16
I would say Ovechkin for the past two years, who did he have, Zubrus? He put up 50 goals in his first year with barely any help.
Another one would be Sakic, he didn't have much help except for maybe Hejduk. However this year with Statsny and Smyth I can see those three all getting over 80 points.
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 10:16:30
Oh, one more thing.
Look at Marc Savard. The guy, for the most part, it playing with a bag of pucks and he's got double Crosby's points so far.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 10:15:44
Fly, I think that 20 scoring chances might be a stretch, but I agree that if he had a Kurri type finisher, he would get more points.
One thing I thought was great about that game was ol' Cole and Neale. With Toronto playing Crosby, they had a hard time talking about how great each one was. The old boys had to chat up TO at the same time as stroking the face of the NHL.
That was entertainment!
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 22:10:22
Anybody who watched the Pens/Leafs game on Saturday knows what I'm talking about when I say Sid Crosby. He legitimately could have had ten points in that game.
I counted more than 20 scoring chances squandered by his skill-less linemates. They found new ways to screw up all night...pucks rolling off sticks as they were about to shoot it into an open net Sid provided...Gonchar...oh my god Gonchar...Gonchar has tons of skill but the energy of a sloth on Ridalin. I once watched Gonchar run a race against a bunch of statues. He came in fourth. His heart rate is 4 minutes/beat. I hope he never gets hospitalized, because they'll pronounce him dead, even if he's walking around the room.
Whitney has energy and knows how to find the open spots, but hands like The Thing in Fantastic Four. If the net was dangling eight feet in the air, he'd score more goals than Heatley. Unfortunately, he struggles with the whole "net on the ice" thing.
I feel bad for Sid, I really do. It has to be frustrating. If you put him in Colorado, he has 15 points this year by now. |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 18:19:17
Marc Savard played with Hossa and Kovalchuck in Atlanta though. But in Boston you're rite he has no help.
No Sacrifice , No Victory! |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 10/11/2007 : 17:21:59
Sundin, last 2 seasons antropov wasn't much help. ponikarovsky wasn't much help either
I completely agree with gagne and jokinenn
what about Marc Savard?
GO PREDATORS GO |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 17:34:00
Hey Fly, I agree with this last one 100%. I am not saying that Sid's speed is the reason he's so good, it's his ability to do everything at top speed. Afinogenov and Gaborik may be faster, but watch them play and when they are setting up for their move, they stop moving their feet. Sid rarely stops moving his feet, so he is making the move and gaining speed. That is sick.
However, I do put him in that smart player catagory as well. Lemieux, for sure. Gretzky, not so much. But he's not that far off either.
But you are exactly right, Sakic or Yzerman with Speed is a great analogy for Crosby.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 16:33:41
As you can tell by my avitar, I'm a Gretzky guy. So please know that I respect Wayne like no other.
While Sidney may not be on the same level as Gretz (fair enough), I think he's the smartest player to come along since Lemieux. If the game was about speed alone, guys like Gaborik and Maxim Afinogenov would be scoring 130+ points a year, like Crosby soon will, because both of those guys match or better him in the speed department, but I'll eat my own shoes if they even approach those kind of numbers.
Sidney is like a faster version of Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman, I guess. Both brilliant players with good, not great speed (although Stevie Y certainly was fast before his injuries, particularly). Maybe the Gretzky comparison was a reach, but I at least think he's in the same league.
Mario Lemieux on his off-season training habits: "I don't order fries with my club sandwich." |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 15:37:48
Hey Fly, I do agree with almost everything you said. Except for one thing.
Sid is does not have the same mind for the game as Gretzky had. Yes, Sid is faster and stronger, But please don't discredit Gretzky by saying that Sid's mind for the game is the same. It's not. Not by a long shot. What give Sid his ability is that he can do everything in hockey at the fastest speed possible. People can not contain him not because he is smarter than them, it's that's he's doing at top speed what most players can do at half speed. What made Gretzky amazing is that he did everything at half speed and still dominated the league. He used his head a lot more than Crosby.
I agree with you assessment last year. But if he plays on a line with Staal and Sykora all year, that is comparable to Kurri and what ever Pylon was on the other side.
We'll have to see how the year ends up!
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| Guest8437 |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 12:57:01
Olli Jokenin for sure. Gagner is another good one. Before the previous seasons Jarome Iginla would have also qualified.
Does Hemsky "produce"? Does he count? |
| Guest2684 |
Posted - 10/09/2007 : 11:29:58
Jokinen from florida....over a point a game with no help what-so-ever. |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 10/08/2007 : 22:43:11
People will probably disagree with this violently, but I say Sidney Crosby. I watch almost every Pens game, and the gap between the number of points he gets compared with the number of points he should get is wide. Ryan Malone is slow and works at about 50% effort. Recchi's hands are almost completely gone (Gretz said that's the first thing to go), and his newest linemate Jordan Staal is good with his stick, but also far too slow in terms of footspeed to keep up with Sid. Gonchar is the laziest player in the NHL, bar none. I describe his skating style as glacial, as in that of a glacier, and defensively - yikes. Ryan Whitney misses the net 98% of the time when Sid feeds him the puck in front of an open net. Colby Armstrong had good chemistry with Sid, and has a good heart for the game, but is limited in talent, and rarely plays with Sid anymore - if ever. Sykora might be a decent linemate this year, but only time will tell. He's proven in the past to be a typical Euro player that starts playing soft 40 games into the season. Malkin and Sidney only play together on powerplays, otherwise he'd click well with the Kid.
People will say, wait a minute, some of those guys got x number of points last year. Yeah, but how many should they have gotten? It's frustrating as a Pens fan to watch Sid dangle through the whole team, pass it off to Recchi, and then watch the puck roll off Recchi's stick and into the corner (and don't get me wrong, I love the Wrecking Ball as much as the next fan, but let's be honest here). Or on a power play, Sid will move in and out of all four guys, and give Whitney a pass as he busts to the net, only to have Whitney shoot the puck four feet over the net and have it come around the boards and out. I've actually been so frustrated I've turned the games off (for awhile).
Gretzky made the players around him better, but he also had more to work with. Sid is every bit as smart and possibly stronger and faster than the Great One. But he'll always score in the 110-130 point range, and not the 180-200 point range, if the Pens don't do something to improve the rest of the team's speed, talent and desire. It seems all of the guys on that team but him have only one of those qualities each, with the exception of Malkin.
Thanks for reading my rant...:)
Mario Lemieux on his off-season training habits: "I don't order fries with my club sandwich." |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 10/07/2007 : 12:36:46
I am in fuul agreement with Gagne. He will be superb with Briere and I think tat they have instant chemistry. If he had Thornton with him he would definatly be a First Team All Star Every year.
______________________
Leafs Pride Forever. |
|
|
