| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| just1n |
Posted - 06/29/2016 : 14:54:09
Whoa, two huge trades today involving Canadian teams!
PK Subban for Shea Weber
and
Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
Who wins these trades? I'm really surprised about that first one. Oh, and Stamkos is staying in Tampa? Why did they bother going thru all that drama just to stay, or is the media to blame for that? |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 15:07:45
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
NJ definitely won. but part of me has to think was there something else to this that we're not seeing? perhaps Hall was thought to be the main focal point of why EDM couldn't win? think about it....new GM and new coach had a full year to evaluate the core of this team. maybe the conclusion they came to was that Hall had to go. this is all pure speculation of course, but why else would they get so little in return? surely they could have shopped him elsewhere and got more.
That's the tricky part. They simply should/could have done better! In fairness, I don't think we've seen the best of what Larsson has to offer yet, but it still looks like a win for NJ. Simply put, other teams surely would have offered more!
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
Montreal won, but I also think that PK is going to fit in very well in NSH. MTL gets a stud D with a booming shot, and they also managed to save on cap space. and if Weber decides to retire before his contract expires, the cap hit goes back to NSH. on the downside they did lose their best puck moving D. I also heard something interesting on the radio this morning (TSN). they said Subban wasn't traded because MTL wanted Weber. he was traded because MTL wanted to trade him. meaning they needed to get him out of that locker room.
Interesting you feel Montreal won this as the consensus I've read/heard leans towards Nashville being the winner in this deal. Weber is 31 compared to Subban's 27 and Weber's play seemed to decline a little last year from what most are saying? A post 30 decline is not surprising really but that is why a lot of people think Montreal lost this deal!
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
as for Stamkos....from what I understand, the contract he signed is the same one that's been on the table for a couple of weeks now (maybe longer?). if that's the case, then what's changed between now and then? why drag it this close to the UFA deadline and then choose not to see if the grass is greener elsewhere? as a Leaf fan I'm a little disappointed. there's really nothing else to say.
At the end of the day, his 8.5M per year is closer to 10M when you take the tax savings into account. He was seeking 10(ish) and ended up getting that with a team, city, organization, etc he's familiar with. While I am surprised it took this long, I'm not surprised at all that he remains with the Lightning! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 14:50:23
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I can't help but think this deal was possible to happen if it had been Eberle or Hopkins for Larsson straight up.
There was additional speculation that EDM had inquired into Shattenkirk, and additional belief that STL would have traded Shattenkirk for Hall straight up - which probably would have been perceived as a more equitable trade. STL is probably a little choked right now.
Either EDM didn't explore the trade market enough or properly recognize Hall's value on the market.
Also agree with you, if the rumour about the ask from MTL for Subban is accurate, EDM was right to walk away. That is ludicrous.
Shattenkirk for Hall is more equitable player for player but when Hall is signed for 4 more years and Shattenkirk is a full UFA next year, that deal is worse than the Larsson deal. However, if STL could have done a sign and trade then it could have worked. Before the draft when the Shattekirk rumours were floating it was said the ask from STL was Hall plus the #4 pick. Absurd.
I get that defensemen are valuable but the trade value is ridiculous. That said, what does a team like Edmonton expect when they draft nothing but forwards for 10 years?? Defensemen have to be drafted and developed. They are not available in trade, are extremely over priced in free agency, and most teams are smart enough to keep their best defensemen.
Ultimately, this trade is 'good' if the Oilers make the playoffs.
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| nuxfan |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 14:10:39
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I can't help but think this deal was possible to happen if it had been Eberle or Hopkins for Larsson straight up.
There was additional speculation that EDM had inquired into Shattenkirk, and additional belief that STL would have traded Shattenkirk for Hall straight up - which probably would have been perceived as a more equitable trade. STL is probably a little choked right now.
Either EDM didn't explore the trade market enough or properly recognize Hall's value on the market.
Also agree with you, if the rumour about the ask from MTL for Subban is accurate, EDM was right to walk away. That is ludicrous. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 10:07:30
Shock and awe. Not really for 2 of those players but had no idea Weber or Larson were on the market. The whole of the Western conference is happy Weber plays in the east now except his teammates in Nashville. His teammates in Nashville have no idea how bad the circus will be with Subban. They got offense, but the gong show that come with Subban is offensive too.
Most people I know that are fans of Larson say good to great things. He was suppose to be just coming into his top 4 potential which is about right for a defenseman. But for Hall. I know my team had put an offer to Edmonton for a forward and were supposidly offering Ceci Lazar etc for an Edmonton player. Maybe Larson was the target for Edmonton all along and the cost was Hall. I have heard in the past that Hall may have had locker room or post game problems, but that was years ago. Maybe they went away or maybe they just stopped being news. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 09:46:11
Here's the local talk about Hall:
There was no issue with him as a person or a player. He was shocked to learn of the trade, as where other players. He said he wanted to be part of the solution and was surprised to be moving. He's also came out thanking the Edmonton fans but also saying he's excited to be going to NJ and he's a 'motivated player' right now. This was simply a hockey economic decision in that the Oilers need to improve their defense. Apparently, the ask from Montreal for Subban was Draisaitl, the #4 overall this year, one of Nurse or Klefbom, and a legit forward prospect. If there is any truth to that, defensemen are grossly overpriced right now.
My take is:
Cherelli seems to be oversold on Larsson. The guy is a #4 overall pick that has 4 NHL seasons under his belt and is only 24. His shooting is pretty proficient at 5% which is solid for a defenseman. He's a + player on what has been a non-playoff team. He's a right handed shot and is a defensive stalwart who appears to move the puck well.
I agree that the Oilers took a bath on this trade but one also has to look at it and know the Oilers were likely going to lose a trade to improve the defense. Personally, I think this is a pretty lopsided trade in favor of NJ. I also look at Cherelli and see that he has now traded both Taylor Hall and Tyler Seguin, top 5 players in the NHL in their positions, for something he said the respective teams needed. I think time has proven that he lost the Seguin trade and time will tell if he lost the Hall trade. I can't help but think this deal was possible to happen if it had been Eberle or Hopkins for Larsson straight up.
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| just1n |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 08:39:16
The weird thing to me is this: remember how Edmonton has to overpay players to get them to come to Edmonton at all? Hall seemed to like it there and want to stay, so you would think that would factor in, at least for getting better value for the trade. They had to do something, but I'll admit that Larsson was the one player I don't know much about within all the trading yesterday. |
| The_Gipper |
Posted - 06/30/2016 : 05:33:45
NJ definitely won. but part of me has to think was there something else to this that we're not seeing? perhaps Hall was thought to be the main focal point of why EDM couldn't win? think about it....new GM and new coach had a full year to evaluate the core of this team. maybe the conclusion they came to was that Hall had to go. this is all pure speculation of course, but why else would they get so little in return? surely they could have shopped him elsewhere and got more.
Montreal won, but I also think that PK is going to fit in very well in NSH. MTL gets a stud D with a booming shot, and they also managed to save on cap space. and if Weber decides to retire before his contract expires, the cap hit goes back to NSH. on the downside they did lose their best puck moving D. I also heard something interesting on the radio this morning (TSN). they said Subban wasn't traded because MTL wanted Weber. he was traded because MTL wanted to trade him. meaning they needed to get him out of that locker room.
as for Stamkos....from what I understand, the contract he signed is the same one that's been on the table for a couple of weeks now (maybe longer?). if that's the case, then what's changed between now and then? why drag it this close to the UFA deadline and then choose not to see if the grass is greener elsewhere? as a Leaf fan I'm a little disappointed. there's really nothing else to say.
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| sahis34 |
Posted - 06/29/2016 : 17:10:41
Yeah, i'm pissed. The oilers got fleeced. This trade reeks of desperation, larsson is not a #1 defenseman, and getting one is the only reason you would trade hall. I dont know much about larsson, i just hope he doesnt have norris trophy potential  |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 06/29/2016 : 16:31:15
Subban for Weber:
I'm not sure if there is a winner here... 2 superstar defensemen trade teams? MTL got better defensively and saved money, NSH got younger and more offense from their blueline. Other than that, I'm not sure what to think.
Hall for Larsson:
There is a clear winner here, and it is NJ. I'm struggling to figure out how EDM traded arguably one of the most productive LW in the league for ONLY Adam Larsson, it seems ridiculously lopsided. Did something happen between Hall and EDM management?
For someone like Hall plus a bit more, I have to think that EDM could have gotten either of Subban or Weber... eeks.
Stamkos in TB:
Sometimes you have to be on the edge of leaving before you get to see the contract that makes you stay. Good for TB for doing the right thing, and getting a team-friendly deal as well. Assuming that Stamkos stays healthy of course. |
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