| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| willus3 |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 14:20:12
I'd like to get your thoughts on the shooting percentage stat.
What do you think it tells us? Is it a worthless or valuable stat?
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Antroman |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 20:31:44
Oh, you young guys know how to do all that cool stuff on the computer. I am learning in my old and slow way. Keep up the good work anyway. |
| willus3 |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 11:28:21
quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
Hey Willus, How long did it take you to type that list out? Good job. I think the list shows that it is a stat that holds very little meaning. Look at Bossy for instance........he is one of the NHL's all time greatest shooters and has a very low conversion percentage. What it does show is Mike Bossy does get a considerable amount of chances but is this because he was great player or was he surrounded by good players setting him up for those chances? Shooting percentage in itself doesn't tell the complete tale is what I am trying to say.
About four seconds to copy and paste...
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
| willus3 |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 10:24:14
I'm torn on this one. The stat seems to support the fact that Bossy is one of the best goal scorers of all time. When he took a shot it went in. He didn't waste opportunities. Then you see Lemieux and Neely quite high here too. Same thing, they are regarded as excellent goal scorers. The stat supports that.
There seems to be a couple schools of thought on goal scoring.
Shoot a lot and eventually one will go in. (Bobby Hull, Esposito)
or
Make your shots count. (Bossy, Lemieux)
Personally I prefer the latter.
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 10:16:17
If you have a chance to see the "Legends of Hockey" when Bossy talks about his ability to score.
He said he would be embarrassed to have a chance at a shot on net, and shoot wide. He said that he would rather hit the goalie in the chest, and then either he or a team mate would have a chance at the rebound.
So some of the players that are on the list that have a high shooting percentage but not that many goals may have had more shots miss the net than they had on net...
Gretzky 894 - 5,089 - 17.5%
Messier 694 - 4,219 - 16.5%
Gartner 708 - 5,090 - 13.9%
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 09:57:21
Good point Antro. In my findings, it appears that the all time great goal scorers have a average to low shooting percentage. Back to the quote by Gretzky, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
Great goal scorers shoot a ton.
I think a high shooting percentage coupled with a guy with skill is a dangerous combination. Using Bossy as an example, pretty much a goal every 5 shots. That is sick!!
Couple of names I am interested to see are Gretzky, Messier, and Gartner. All had a high quantity of goals.
Willus, do you have those numbers??
|
| Antroman |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 08:05:24
Hey Willus, How long did it take you to type that list out? Good job. I think the list shows that it is a stat that holds very little meaning. Look at Bossy for instance........he is one of the NHL's all time greatest shooters and has a very low conversion percentage. What it does show is Mike Bossy does get a considerable amount of chances but is this because he was great player or was he surrounded by good players setting him up for those chances? Shooting percentage in itself doesn't tell the complete tale is what I am trying to say. |
| willus3 |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 18:45:54
Here are some all time stats.
Thoughts?
Player Goals Shots %
Warren "Geritol" Young 72 294 24,49%
Craig "Simmer" Simpson 247 1044 23,66%
Charlie "Chaz" Simmer 342 1531 22,34%
Ulf "Lill-Projsarn" Nilsson 57 257 22,18%
Sergei Makarov 134 610 21,97%
Paul Maclean 324 1513 21,41%
Mike "The Boss" Bossy 573 2705 21,18%
Kjell Dahlin 57 276 20,65%
Matti "Hakki" Hagman 56 274 20,44%
Alex "Tangs" Tanguay 159 790 20,13%
Yvon "Valentino" Lambert 206 1038 19,85%
Rick "Nifty" Middleton 448 2275 19,69%
Petr "Prooks" Prucha 52 266 19,55%
Blaine "Stash" Stoughton 258 1322 19,52%
Darryl Sutter 161 829 19,42%
Rob "Brownie" Brown 190 979 19,41%
Mike Ridley 292 1513 19,30%
Steve "Sarge" Vickers 246 1276 19,28%
Kent "The Magic Man" Nilsson 264 1374 19,21%
Tom J. "Jughead" Mccarthy 178 929 19,16%
Jari "The Flying Finn" Kurri 601 3142 19,13%
John "Chief" Bucyk 329 1723 19,09%
Mark "Pac Man" Pavelich 137 718 19,08%
Marian "Mariano" Stastny 121 635 19,06%
Mario "The Magnificent" Lemieux 690 3633 18,99%
Peter "Stosh" Stastny 450 2374 18,96%
Ray "Chicken Parm" Ferraro 408 2164 18,85%
Stan "Bulldog" Jonathan 91 484 18,80%
Mark "Big Game" Hunter 213 1134 18,78%
Tim "Sultan of Slot" Kerr 370 1971 18,77%
Gary "Scary Gary" Roberts 431 2301 18,73%
Mikko "European Vacation" Makela 118 632 18,67%
Pete Mcnab 363 1956 18,56%
Mats "Le Petit Viking" Naslund 251 1359 18,47%
Bryan "Trots" Trottier 524 2841 18,44%
Cam "Cam Shaft" Neely 395 2148 18,39%
Pat Elynuik 154 838 18,38%
Mike "Red Dog" Allison 102 558 18,28%
Keith Crowder 223 1228 18,16%
Tony Currie 92 508 18,11%
Andrew "Bruno" Brunette 172 952 18,07%
Anton "Ti-Toine" Stastny 252 1398 18,03%
Joe "Slippery Rock" Mullen 502 2787 18,01%
Brian "Sudsy" Sutter 303 1686 17,97%
Paul Gardner 201 1125 17,87%
Dave "Stitch" Taylor 431 2413 17,86%
Mike "The Bullet" Bullard 329 1842 17,86%
Yvan "The Roadrunner" Cournoyer 374 2095 17,85%
Terry Martin 104 583 17,84%
Bill Sutherland 70 393 17,81%
Grant "Granville" Ledyard 90 1670 5,39%
Maurice "Moe" Mantha 81 1542 5,25%
Jean Jacques "J.J." Daigneault 53 1014 5,23%
Brad "The Beast" Mccrimmon 81 1550 5,23%
Doug Bodger 106 2037 5,20%
Darryl "Syd" Sydor 94 1808 5,20%
Dana "Hank" Murzyn 52 1012 5,14%
Chris "Cheli" Chelios 182 3547 5,13%
Jeff Norton 52 1015 5,12%
Boris "Bobo" Mironov 76 1489 5,10%
Glen Wesley 127 2493 5,09%
Dave "Gramps" Babych 142 2791 5,09%
Janne "Spaz" Niinimaa 54 1067 5,06%
Rick "Lanzer" Lanz 65 1291 5,03%
Rob "Baby Bull" Ramage 139 2783 4,99%
Steve "Chaser" Chiasson 93 1875 4,96%
Bruce Driver 96 1946 4,93%
Greg Smith 56 1143 4,90%
Jiri Slegr 56 1144 4,90%
Ron "Stacky" Stackhouse 87 1782 4,88%
Bob J. "Mud" Murdoch 60 1229 4,88%
Eric "Weino" Weinrich 70 1461 4,79%
Dave "Charlie" Manson 102 2156 4,73%
Bill White 50 1066 4,69%
Derek "Mo" Morris 63 1349 4,67%
Daniel "Danny-Mac" Mcgillis 56 1201 4,66%
Shawn Chambers 50 1075 4,65%
Jamie "Cooner" Macoun 76 1635 4,65%
Randy "Haystacks" Manery 50 1078 4,64%
Mark "Harpo" Hardy 62 1343 4,62%
Keith Brown 68 1477 4,60%
Gerald "Diddy" Diduck 56 1228 4,56%
Ulf "Robocop" Samuelsson 57 1250 4,56%
Bret "Heddy" Hedican 52 1154 4,51%
Lyle "Odie" Odelein 50 1123 4,45%
Petr Svoboda 58 1304 4,45%
Alexei "Z" Zhitnik 93 2109 4,41%
Andre "Moose" Dupont 59 1348 4,38%
Mario Marois 76 1755 4,33%
Igor "Krafty" Kravchuk 64 1486 4,31%
Barry "Gibby" Gibbs 58 1349 4,30%
Gary "Bergie" Bergman 56 1307 4,28%
Stephane "Q" Quintal 63 1478 4,26%
Rod "Secretary of Defense" Langway 51 1235 4,13%
Jim "Schony" Schoenfeld 51 1257 4,06%
Dallas Smith 53 1325 4,00%
Don "Sweens" Sweeney 52 1318 3,95%
Sean "Hilly" Hill 60 1528 3,93%
Rod "Sod" Seiling 52 1492 3,49%
Jim "The Chief" Neilson 51 1482 3,44%
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
| Guest6916 |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 17:50:50
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
I think that shooting percentage is a joke to be honest. For someone like Jason Blake, it means a lot. For most NHLers it means diddly squat.
Habs get number 25 this year
huh? what do you mean? |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 15:08:24
I think it's a lot like +/-. People put to much weight into it and it hard to compare different type of players to it.
I think it is interesting to measure players against others, but you can't use it logically. Such as, can you say that Mike Roberio is a more effective goal scorer with a 31.0% shooting percentage to Ovechkin's 14.4%? Maybe. Can you say that if Roberio took the 271 shots that Ovechkin has that he would have 84 goals?? Hardly. Would you want Roberio on your team rather than Ovechkin based on shooting %?? Not likely at all.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 14:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
Like any stat it is useless when viewed by itself. But in concert with other individual stats it can help shape a good picture of the player.
I agree with that. Look at a player like Alex Tanguay, his shooting percentage is usually in the 20's witch is pretty high. So by looking at that you think he scored a lot. But actually no, he doesn't shoot a lot and he makes his shots matter.
It's a stat that is just a stat. Not that big of a deal. |
| leigh |
Posted - 01/24/2008 : 14:44:23
Like any stat it is useless when viewed by itself. But in concert with other individual stats it can help shape a good picture of the player. |
|
|
