| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| goon |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 11:01:48
I thought we should start a new thread for this topic:
Speaking of Iginla...
Yesterday on the drive home one of ESPN's hockey analysts was on the radio and he had a list predicting the top 10 players under 30 who would be future Hall of Famers. Guys like Staal, Nash, Crosby, Ovechkin, were on there, but no Iginla? His explanation was that although he is a great leader and a good two way player, he will not hit the 500 goal mark and as a forward his primary job is to score goals.
What are your thoughts Flames fans?
quote:
leigh:
I think your guy was just trying to stir up controversy. I'm pretty sure he'll hit 500 and then some. He's played only 9 years and has 282 goals so far. He's averaged 69 points a season since 98. And since that time has averaged 35 goals a season. Keep in mind, other than 2004 this team hasn't made the playoffs since 1996. Can you imagine if he had some teammates? From 2000 to 2004 when he played with Craig Conroy he averaged 40 goals a season and 307 points total. That's in just 4 years!
Now I know that's not Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux pace but it's definitely Joe Sakic pace. And if you tell me that the 33 goals per year average is not putting Joe Sakic in the NHL Hall of Fame I'd tell you you're crazy!
What's that? Don't like my Sakic comparison? Well then how about Turgeon? His numbers are a lot lower...he averaged 24 goals and 63 points a season. He'll be a Hall of Famer.
Or maybe the best comparison yet...Shanahan. Similar players, tough, gritty, offensive minded...31 goals and 64 points a season. He'll be a Hall of Famer. Sure he's won a few cups but that just supports my point, Iginla has done it so far with no one (except maybe Conroy for a few seasons)
Now add in his leadership, fighting ability, 2-way game, hitting and even his media-friendly personality and you have a bonified Hall of Famer.
Anyway, I could go on but I really should do some work.
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| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ryan Harper |
Posted - 04/21/2006 : 11:06:51
Its about time we get someone with some real hockey knowledge on this one. Congrats Stain 72 - I completely agree.
Well done! |
| leigh |
Posted - 04/20/2006 : 01:14:56
I'm pretty much in agreement with what you're saying. But we have to recognize that there is not one single area of his game that is not extremely above average. And several areas are near perfect.
The original post was about FUTURE HHOF'ers. Like I've maintained all along, if he keeps this pace going (at minimum) for several more years and maybe throws in a championship, he'll get in. |
| stain_72 |
Posted - 04/19/2006 : 21:42:40
Ok Ok Ok.
The HHOF is not based on STATS alone. You all should know that. If it was, ROD LANGWAY would have never been inducted. It's on consistency, leadership, statistics and god knows what else.
You're mentioning game winning goals, if that was the case.. would you not send Glenn Anderson (17 Playoff GWG) or Claude Lemieux (19 GWG) in? Those two WON playoff games with CLUTCH goals.... goals when the game was on the line. Anderson has 93 playoff goals and over 200 playoff points! Not to mention 498 Career goals and 1099 points! He's still not in with stats like that! Much better than Iginla's stats.
Dave Andreychuk will be in. Consistent goal scoring, 22 seasons played.
Pavel Bure is a guy I'd take over Iginla ANY DAY. Just for the fact that I think NOBODY has scored more highlight reel goals than him! NOBODY!
Anyway, I'm ranting.... so... back to the point.
Cam Neely is in because his style changed the game. He was a true force to be reckoned with. 1991 Playoff run. WOW.
Brendan Shanahan WILL be inducted into the HHOF. This will be his 17th STRAIGHT 20 goal season. You can't ignore that.
Joe Sakic will be in because he gets ASISSTS as well as GOALS. He's a team leader. Has had great playoff success, International success as well. It's the 'Hockey' Hall of Fame, not NHL. Albeit, Iginla has had some too.
As for Turgeon. I think he falls into the Anderson category. He'll be on the HHOF ballots... he scored goals, he's won championships. Like Anderson, he never really lead a team. I can see it... eventually....
Iginla...HHOF... I love Iggy. But I think he's gotta do more than ride Kippers back to a Championship series to be inductedin the HHOF. He's got a lot of hockey left. I'd say if he retired today, not a chance. But definitely if he plays another 8-9 years like he has the first 9.
But to the real argument. I 'really' don't think anyone under 30 should even be put in the same sentence has "Hall Of Fame."
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| bablaboushka |
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 13:03:05
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Harper
Jarome Iginla is as overrated as they come. He is a hero only in Alberta. Enough said.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, enough said.
quote:
Originally posted by blade
By the way, I was feeling a little sympathy for the Canucks but you've beaten that out of me now. Bertuzzi is damaged goods, Naslund is a has-been, and Morrisson is a never-was. As for the twins, sorry it's taken 5 years for them to be average.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, enough said. |
| blade |
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 11:51:30
Every generation says they were the first. You'd be a fool to think that Neely was the "first power forward". The reason we think that is because that's as far back as the current sports analysts can remember. I'm sure that the rocket's generation had its share of power forwards, and the generation before that had theirs. Sure guys got bigger but it's all relative.
Iginla's numbers are on par for a Hall of Fame career and they will likely get better as his is just entering his prime now. In the next 5 years he will earn it.
By the way, I was feeling a little sympathy for the Canucks but you've beaten that out of me now. Bertuzzi is damaged goods, Naslund is a has-been, and Morrisson is a never-was. As for the twins, sorry it's taken 5 years for them to be average. |
| Ryan Harper |
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 10:10:39
All of you Flames fans must be sniffing glue. First, the Flames chances of winning the cup are about as good as the Canucks chances of making the playoffs - nil.
Second, Jarome is a good player but anyone comparing him to Cam Neely is way, way off. Cam Neely did not hit the milestone 500 goals or 1,000 points because of injury. However his impact on the game can not be judged based on these things. He was the first and best power forward the game has ever seen. His style of play changed the way future players/coaches/and GMs approached the game - and for that he is recognized.
Jarome Iginla is as overrated as they come. He is a hero only in Alberta! Enough said. |
| blade |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 14:46:31
Iggy is the man! He will make the hall of fame. Besides, the Stanley Cup he is going to win in about 2 months is going to bolster his case HUGE! |
| Ripley |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 11:54:28
oh yah, let's not compare him to Neely....yet. |
| Ripley |
Posted - 04/10/2006 : 11:41:22
I think he'll make it but he'll need to have many more season's under his belt. Leigh you are correct, if he really wants to make a statement he'll need a linemate big time! |
| leigh |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 01:18:40
Cam Neely - Inducted in 2005 - 726 GP - 694 Pts.
Jerome Iginla - 702 GP - 564 Pts.
He's about a hundred points off if you throw in the game differential. Yup that's a lot. But Cam was fast tracked in at only 40 years old....well ahead of so many deserving old-timers and even more not-so-old-timers. So, back up my earlier point of "team mates". Ray Bourque assisted on 103 of Cam's 344 Boston Goals.Throw in a few good seasons and a set-up man (maybe Langkow??) and Iggy's well on his way. But yes, only time will tell.... |
| leigh |
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 00:46:09
You crack me up. I love it when you argue my point for me. Thanks.
So all of the above and Shanahan won't make it? You've got some very high standards. I guess you're waiting for another "The Great One" before you have another induction ceremony on your planet. |
| bablaboushka |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 20:20:59
Ok let's compare him with Shanahan...
- He has played 18 years (including this one) and only in his rookie year has he failed to score less than 22 goals. So that means 17 years of 20+
- 7 years of 30+ (only because...)
- 3 years of 40+
- 2 years of 50+
- Career +/- of 147, with playoffs = 184
- 102 Game-winners
- 3 Stanley Cups
Oh and did I mention he's 15th on the all-time list for goals ahead of Jean Belliveau AND PIERRE TURGEON and Rocket Richard and Joe Sakic...etc, etc.
And yet he still probably won't make it in... |
| leigh |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 18:57:00
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Turgeon, that's a joke....enough said.
As a side note: Turgeon WILL make the Hall of Fame.
- 12 years of 20+ goals
- 8 years of 30+ goals
- 2 years of 40+ goals
- One 58 goal season
- 86 game winning goals (That's an entire season and then some!)
- AND a career +/- of 139 to date.
(not including playoff stats)
Did I mention that he's ahead of Jean Beliveau at 31st on the all-time-list? Don't tell me his place in history is a joke. |
| leigh |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 18:49:38
I think you misunderstood my point about not having others to play with. I'm not blaming a lack of other players to play with, I'm simply saying that he has accomplished everything so far with no one else. Over the remainder of his career it is therefore likely that he will play with several GREAT players which will cause his numbers to balloon even further. Behind every "great" player there are usually 2 or 3 "really good" players.
Babs, you make a good point about being on a defensive team. One of 3 things will happen: 1) he gets others to play with at some point, 2) the Flames evolve to an offensive team sometime over his time there, maybe Sutter leaves (someday) or, 3) Iginla moves on in his career to another team, maybe one that is very offensive. The way I see it, each of those scenarios results in him producing higher numbers. If it continues at status quo then he stays on the same high goal pace.
He's only 28. If his career is not cut short by injury (which could happen) his current goal producing rate of 35 goals a season will be higher than Joe Sakic's 33. So if Joe is in...why not Iginla?
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| bablaboushka |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 11:48:12
Completely agree, the Hall of Fame is for the elite in the elite group. Sakic I believe should get in because of his scoring prowess, his infamous wrist shot, his leadership (even being captain of Team Canada) and for his success.
Unfortunately, Shanahan's success was always overshadowed by guys like Yzerman and Fedorov, and even though I don't think he will make it, he was always underrated.
Turgeon, that's a joke....enough said.
Iginla, well, let's see how his career plays out first. He's an offensive star that plays on a defensive team so it's really tough to tell how his career will unfold. |
| goon |
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 11:05:40
Sure Sakic is a Hall of Famer - but Shanahan and Turgeon? I don't think so man. The point of the Hall of fame is to honor the games greatest players - not just good players. Iginla is a good player, not great. Blaming it on his teammates? How do you think Ovechkin feels about playing with a bunch of AHLers? Its Funny because he is projected as a future Hall of Famer. |
