| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 08:47:21
Who do you feel has done the poorest job of managing their respective club since the lockout?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 21:37:44
T-RAV......keep in mind that giving up 1st round picks has happened for decades and beyond. What matters most of all is getting fair value back.
Also, you have to understand that picks / prospects / young guns are much more valuable in todays salary cap era than they were in the 80's and 90's! As has been said over and over again on here, you need to have some young studs on entry level deals to keep your cap space manageable!!! |
| Guest9006 |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 12:46:15
John Ferguson Jr put the leafs in a bind for years and they still havent fully recovered from his terrible moves. |
| Guest9052 |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 10:26:36
As much as I hate them, I have to admit Detroit has had a dynasty over the past couple decades or so. I read a post on another topic that pointed out its not "where" you draft, but who you draft and how you develop them.
PS. I only hate the Wings b/c I'm a leaf fan
T-RAV |
| foolpittier |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 09:32:56
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9052
This is a valid point. However they always seem to overlook teams such as the Red Wings who have given up more First round picks than the Leafs (since '79),
T-RAV
who need's first round picks when the top players on there team are 5th zetterburg, 7th datsyuk, 4th franzen. not to shabby. |
| Guest9052 |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 08:29:50
Some times I think Burke is the worst, but as the Duke said he inherited that team from John Ferguson Jr. who loved to give out NTC to anyone who asked.
Everyone is on the "F*** Brian Burke" band wagon for the Kessel trade. But those first round picks would not have necessarily turned out the same. Not to mention Toronto's history with draft picks (See 1989 Entry Draft). Also people always bring up the Hawks and the Pens (who gave up 1 and 3 First round picks respectively since 1979) in regards to Drafting a Cup contender. This is a valid point. However they always seem to overlook teams such as the Red Wings who have given up more First round picks than the Leafs (since '79), but their drafting (and "system") is stronger than Toronto's. So if the Wings can Draft better players in the third round than the Leafs do in the first round, what difference do these 2 First rounders make for the Leafs anyway??
JFJ for WORST GM EVER. what an Ass-clown!
PS. If you were wondering why I used 1979 as a cut off year, its because that was my birth yr. and I am a lazy researcher.
T-RAV |
| Guest8408 |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 08:01:13
The Kovalchuk deal was a straight ownership deal, not really Lamoriello's fault.
I may be biased (since I'm a Flames fan), but for Calgary the only two things I can think of to fault Sutter for is the Jokinen trade last year (Jokinen+Prust for Higgins and Kotalik) and all of the NTC/NMC that they are stuck with this year. If the players were all to preform consistently at reasonable expectations, Calgary would have a pretty good team. The trouble is many of them have flopped this (and/or last) season. 
I'd have to go with Lowe or maybe Burke's work in Toronto, though that is still up in the air. If their defence and goaltending settle down they could have an ok team.
When Guest4934 said: "It's actually a young team that sucks, "potential" means you look promising, not "have looked promising for a long time and done nothing"." I would have to agree. Even now I'm not too sure about the Oilers. They have some great prospects, but I'm not sure they have an appropriate coaching staff to develop it and turn it in to a very good team. |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 20:30:23
Guest 5213, when you say the leafs are in serious trouble, you are right.
But the funny thing is the big trouble is on their defense, which is suppose to be solid. Very, very, sloppy play night in night out by guys who are supposed to be their team strength. These D-men are highly paid and drastically under-performing.
What the leafs need up front will eventually come in time. Question is... what is Burke going to do with these $$$$$$ defenseman with time left on their contracts ?? I can see 2 or 3 Leaf D-men who are impossible to move because of their over-paid contracts, thats where the trouble lies. |
| Guest5213 |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 21:39:11
The Duke >>>
The leafs are in serious trouble.
Burke cleaned house to get rid of the bad apples and negative players in TO just like Tambi did in Edmonton.
Burke in his time has traded away their draft picks. The Leafs look like they are poised to give Boston another top 5 or maybe even a top 3 pick. There is no help coming to the Leafs from drafting or "proper rebuilding". Hardly, the plan that Burke had in mind when he made these trades. If that is not failure than I dont know what is. The only saving grace for Burke was that the Leafs were in a serious mess when took over as GM
A good debate is which team is worse. CGY to TO. Both teams are no where their GMs expected them to be. CGY core is aging but at least they will have a 1st rnd draft this season. Sutter gave too many players NTC or NMC so its going to be tough to move them. They are right up against the cap
But when I think about it more and more. Worse GM post lockout has to go to Kevin Lowe. He had one magical run in the playoffs because many teams were still adjusting to the cap and the Oilers by circumstance and not by design was under the cap by so much.
After that, K Lowe has given and thrown mad money at players that didnt deserve it to the put of spending almost to the cap each season while missing the playoffs for how many years?
Lowe signed a Dman to over 5mill and having Souray on a loaner farm team in the AHL that is not their AHL team.
Lowe desperation in making headlines in making multiple offer sheets to other teams RFAs or have about the DVD video they had to promote Edmonton and the Oilers
Contracts have been bought out in forms of Nilsson etc
Horcoff contracts only looks good when compared to Gomez or Drury.
Penner contract was suppose to be bargain at this stage but cleary isnt. |
| The Duke |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 20:59:42
On the Kevin Lowe subject....nobody has mentioned that if Buffalo let Vanek walk then some of these young Oilers wouldn`t be there ...they would be in Buffalo ( at least the picks would ).
So his only shining light ( his young Oilers ) would be a bust. Can you imagine if the Sabres had their time back ? What would the Oilers look like with those picks gone and depending on Vanek.
Sutter has been a Major bust in Calgary.
I can`t comment too much on Burke yet...still pending. As bad as the leafs are doing in the standings, i do see some glimmer of improvement at times. The only reason i give him some leash is because he inherited one of the worst teams in NHL history with many major bad contracts ( JFJ...what a total moron ).
Burke hasn`t been in leaf - land long enough yet to right this nightmare of a mess. Lets see where the leafs stand after 2 more seasons.
Komasarik`s deal was a bad one. The kessel deal is a toss up, debate-able, lets not forget Burke is not a physic, he didn`t know the leafs were to finish 29 th !!! omg.
Other than that its easy to critize, after all, when he arrived what the hell did he have for trade bait ? |
| foolpittier |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 19:06:22
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by foolpittier
ken holland is the worst
Sarcasm ?? its hard to tell on the net
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
OH for sure. i love kenny |
| Go_Habs_Go |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 18:14:49
LOU LAMORIELLO
Why did he change a winning team ?
The Kovalchuk move appears to be a big choke...unless the next seasons prove something else, but for the moment...wow. For 100 million$ ??
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 17:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by foolpittier
ken holland is the worst
Sarcasm ?? its hard to tell on the net
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
|
| foolpittier |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 15:51:08
ken holland is the worst |
| bananas |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 11:35:30
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I also suspect it wasn't much of Snow doing that signing. NYI had attempted to sign DiPietro to a 15-year contract the year before (not under Snow) but the NHL frowned down on it, and then they got it through. It has Wang madness written all over it.
I actually think the Islanders could be pretty good next year or even later this year if the get Okposo and Streit back. I think they will fly by the leafs within a month. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 10:11:40
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0952
Mike Gillis for sure. He signed Torres and Malhotra in the offseason, Which has really helped the canucks. (1st in the league!) He drafted Hodgson And Shroeder who both have potentiel, and got rid of bernier and got Ballard. Sure he signed Sundin to that ridiculuos 10 m deal. But Still............
HUH? Guest, please reread the thread title.... |
| Oilearl |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 09:30:54
Sutter for sure!! |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 09:28:56
I also suspect it wasn't much of Snow doing that signing. NYI had attempted to sign DiPietro to a 15-year contract the year before (not under Snow) but the NHL frowned down on it, and then they got it through. It has Wang madness written all over it. |
| bananas |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 09:13:41
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
As for worst GM, I'm so surprised no one has raised Garth Snow as a candidate.
What has Garth Snow done that is so bad?
The Dipiettro contract wasn't the greatest. |
| Guest0952 |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 07:22:44
Mike Gillis for sure. He signed Torres and Malhotra in the offseason, Which has really helped the canucks. (1st in the league!) He drafted Hodgson And Shroeder who both have potentiel, and got rid of bernier and got Ballard. Sure he signed Sundin to that ridiculuos 10 m deal. But Still............ |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 07:19:07
quote:
As for worst GM, I'm so surprised no one has raised Garth Snow as a candidate.
What has Garth Snow done that is so bad? |
| Guest4350 |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 06:31:04
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5213
NJ Lou.. What was that man thinking in giving Kovi a crazy contract in both money and time. That contract will handcuff them for all of it.
I'll say that it may not totally Lou's doing and perhaps there was an ownership influence. The deal was not a Lou like deal. Just my take on it.
As for worst GM, I'm so surprised no one has raised Garth Snow as a candidate. |
| Guest5213 |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 22:02:57
Time to rehatch this topic after years of speculation.
K Lowe terrible GM clearly what some posters posting about the great kids playing in 08 didnt come true because guys like Nilsson isnt even there anymore. Contract bought. Finished last in the league. Souray buried in the minors. Horcoff terrible contract. Defence is worse in the league and has been in the bottom for a long time.
Burkie looks pretty terrible right now as well. Traded away all his prospects to still finish bottom of the league.
Mad Mikey was always bad as a GM in NYI. He had so many future superstars and gave them away for nothing.
NJ Lou.. What was that man thinking in giving Kovi a crazy contract in both money and time. That contract will handcuff them for all of it.
Sather, I might have to say has signed many players to stupid contracts since the beginning of his tenor as GM for the Rangers pre cap and post cap era. Just embarrassing for the money they through around for the results they got.
Ex GM Sutter took some high risks with his acquisitions and looking terrible right now. If the Flames makes the playoffs and go deep. Then all will be forgotten. |
| rollingrocks |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 16:24:19
Milbury, but his braindead moves were mostly before the lockout.
traded for Yashin, gave up Chara and 2nd overall pick in the draft. (wow)
signed him to a 10 yr/$87 million contract. paid Yashin $17.6 mil to buyout the last 4 yrs of the contract.
selected Nilan and Skrudland to play in the 1991 allstar game (wow).
traded away luongo and Jokinen for Parrish and Kvasha. (duh!!!)
traded Bertuzzi & Mccabe for Linden
Picked depietro #1 overall and raffi Torres #5 in 2000 draft, passed on Heatley #2, Gaborik #3,
.....beats being a Leafs fan!! |
| Guest8171 |
Posted - 11/30/2008 : 13:55:28
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4934
It's actually a young team that sucks, "potential" means you look promising, not "have looked promising for a long time and done nothing".
Kevin Lowe = worst GM.
What are you talking about? The Oilers have one of the more promising group of prospects, especially on defense.
If players aren't playing well, that's not the fault of the GM, look towards the coach and the players themselves. |
| Guest6753 |
Posted - 11/30/2008 : 12:40:32
i guess the end of the season meant nothing when the kid line were clicking oh wait how old are they? its called the sophomore slump |
| Guest4934 |
Posted - 11/30/2008 : 12:15:01
It's actually a young team that sucks, "potential" means you look promising, not "have looked promising for a long time and done nothing".
Kevin Lowe = worst GM. |
| Guest9235 |
Posted - 11/30/2008 : 03:19:28
I dont think lowe signed vishnovsky, that was la. ANd also, if the gms really wanted to keep salaries low, they would pay them what their worth, and if they ask for more just dont give it to them, but that will never happen so tough luck on that. And its not lowes fault, it wouldve happened anyways. Pronger asked to be traded, how can you blame a gm on trading a guy whos not going to play for you anyways? And on the smyth deal, hes not worth 7.5 mil and nillson was a damn good pickup cause nillson has great potential and has most of his carrer in front of him, where as smyth is in the back half of his career. |
| Axey |
Posted - 11/29/2008 : 21:08:38
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6740
having a young team with alot of potenial??? sure penner deal was dumb but can't win em all just gotta hope the kids live up to potenial only problem with that team is the coach
I agree, the team is young and full of potential. The Smyth trade was actually good for them, it gave players a chance to step up and shine instead of being in the shadows.
P.S - Woooooo 500th post.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
| Guest6740 |
Posted - 11/29/2008 : 16:08:07
having a young team with alot of potenial??? sure penner deal was dumb but can't win em all just gotta hope the kids live up to potenial only problem with that team is the coach |
| Guest4934 |
Posted - 11/29/2008 : 12:52:18
Kevin Lowe, hands down, I mean just look at Edmonton now... |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 11/29/2008 : 11:45:38
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0946
Worst GM in history? I would have to go with Craig Button. He traded Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullan (yeah, I know), traded JS Giguere for a 2nd round pick in 2000 (which turned out to be Matt Pettinger) and let Martin St. Louis walk for nothing.
This guy is a total buffoon.
LOL, so true. I saw this guy on OTR the other day and Micheal Landsberg and he was making fun of him for these terrible deals.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
| Guest0946 |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 20:42:16
Worst GM in history? I would have to go with Craig Button. He traded Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainullan (yeah, I know), traded JS Giguere for a 2nd round pick in 2000 (which turned out to be Matt Pettinger) and let Martin St. Louis walk for nothing.
This guy is a total buffoon. |
| Guest0470 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 15:58:52
JFJ |
| Guest6740 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 13:45:49
not his problem though edmonton was trying to make a big splash after sucking balls last season sucks we got penner instead of vanek:( but hey what can you do and when you look at the smyth deal they did get nillson and hes looking better and better everygame with cogs and gags |
| Guest4910 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 12:32:38
We can debate on every trade about which had the best out of it. I'm blaming Lowe more for the fact that he was the first one to offer big money to free agents(Penner, Vanek, Souray, Visnovsky) after a whole year without hockey. The lock-out was meant to save the league because it couldnt survive, and players' salaries went down right after the lock-out. Last summer, some teams offered ridiculous contracts to players like Ryder, Streit, Malone, Finger, Huet, and other players. NHL is heading towards the same situation before the lock-out. And with the Canadian dollar going down, it's gona be more difficult moneywise for most Canadian teams. In Montreal, the president of the hockey club said in interview that the team will be right back at the same situation before the lock-out with a 56.7 M salary cap if the dollar goes below 80cents.
Anyways, we can debate, and I'm probably wrong, but I don't a NHL stoppage for another whole year, because curling is kinda boring after a while even though the ladies are very nice looking in their tight black pants or their mini skirts. |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 11:52:23
I said the above
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
| Guest4841 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 11:51:24
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4910
But my vote goes to Kevin Lowe for trading for Pronger and letting him go after a year, for not signing Ryan Smyth because of a different of 1 M when Smyth was the heart and soul of Edmonton, for signing Penner to so much money, for offering Vanek 10M and Buffalo had to match. Lowe was the first GM to offer ridiculously big salary to free agents(restricted and unrestricted agents) after a lock-out needed to make NHL work financially.
First off Chris Pronger asked to be traded, he was not going to play for Edmonton anymore, so what was Lowe supposed to do? And as for Smyth, there is no way in hell you can justify him getting 7.5 million per season by Colorado. I don't care how big his heart is. He has only played all 82 games 4 times out of 13 seasons, he has never finished a year a point a game player and if Smyths heart was really in Edmonton he should have taken less money to stay there not the other way around, it would have screwed the Oilers to be paying Smyth 7.5 a season. I'll give you the Penner deal though, but you can't justify the rest of your agruements with making Lowe a bad GM.
as for worst GM, Doug Mclean, easy. |
| Guest8332 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 11:14:12
Guest hasn't been on this site much to say Lowe. The way Beans argues it, the Pronger deal looks pretty good.
I say Mike Keenan. Trading away Luongo.
Next up is Milbury for his acquisition of Yashin that gave away Chara and Spezza. |
| Guest4910 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 09:17:19
Jay Feaster is a good choice for trading Dan Boyle and signing Ryan Malone to a 7 year / 31.5 M, a player who could barely get 50 points while playing with Malkin.
But my vote goes to Kevin Lowe for trading for Pronger and letting him go after a year, for not signing Ryan Smyth because of a different of 1 M when Smyth was the heart and soul of Edmonton, for signing Penner to so much money, for offering Vanek 10M and Buffalo had to match. Lowe was the first GM to offer ridiculously big salary to free agents(restricted and unrestricted agents) after a lock-out needed to make NHL work financially. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 08:49:11
My vote goes to JFJ...with Jay Feaster and Dean lombardi right behind him
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
