| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 03:29:50
In another example of why Oil fans are some of the most dedicated yet crazy fans in the league, they gave Mats Sundin a chorus of boos last night for most of the game. They have done similar to other players like Bertuzzi, Comrie, and even Arnott. My question for all is what did Sundin do to Oil fans. |
| 36 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest7143 |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 09:56:04
Everyone has the right to boo whomever they want. Oilers rule!
www.drunkleolie.com
|
| Guest4249 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 20:52:25
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
are you talkin about me, or our guest friend?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
That would be Guest2715. My apologies to you for the misunderstanding.
I have rarely heard such incessant nonsense. All the while restating his blatant inaccuracies while never justifying them with any reason or proof.
Guest2715: Which were you, a coach, player or trainer?
-8228 |
| hanley6 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 13:11:58
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Dude, Tannenbaum has only been part of the equation since like '03 what about all the years before that? How do you know that there were lots of leafs who would say sundin wasnt a good leader and just sat there and let domi run around? Get real, Tie and Mats were friends, that has been well documented. We're talking about Mats' teams from say, '99 - '-04. These were 100 point teams that went deep into the playoffs. Give your head a shake. You just dont like him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Give your head a shake. I don't know Sundin. He may be a great guy, but he sucks as a team captain and is the most overated player to ever play in the NHL. Just watch the remaining of the season as Vancouver continues their swoon dive which started just as Sundin was signed...of course all you Sundin apologists will say, "it's not his fault, the team was going to fold and miss the playoffs, anyway." You Sundin apologists have been singing the same tune for a decade.
PS.- If the Leafs had a real captain during some of their fortunate playoff runs, they would have beaten Buffalo and Carolina in the Semis, and not just beat the Sens and their shoddy goaltending...they even had home advantage in both Conference Final losses, and Sundin still could not deliver as a captain and team leader.
Sundin was a great leader get over it.. He was better leader than his rival Daniel Alfredsson that's for sure. I can't believe you just said Sundin is the most overrated player that ever played the game, if anything he's a little on the underrated side and you're proving that right there. You want to talk about overrated players how about Trevor Linden, Eric Lindros, Saku Koivu they have never reached the hype of what people say they have |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 10:56:28
are you talkin about me, or our guest friend?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 01/29/2009 : 08:53:51
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Dude, Tannenbaum has only been part of the equation since like '03 what about all the years before that? How do you know that there were lots of leafs who would say sundin wasnt a good leader and just sat there and let domi run around? Get real, Tie and Mats were friends, that has been well documented. We're talking about Mats' teams from say, '99 - '-04. These were 100 point teams that went deep into the playoffs. Give your head a shake. You just dont like him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Give your head a shake. I don't know Sundin. He may be a great guy, but he sucks as a team captain and is the most overated player to ever play in the NHL. Just watch the remaining of the season as Vancouver continues their swoon dive which started just as Sundin was signed...of course all you Sundin apologists will say, "it's not his fault, the team was going to fold and miss the playoffs, anyway." You Sundin apologists have been singing the same tune for a decade.
PS.- If the Leafs had a real captain during some of their fortunate playoff runs, they would have beaten Buffalo and Carolina in the Semis, and not just beat the Sens and their shoddy goaltending...they even had home advantage in both Conference Final losses, and Sundin still could not deliver as a captain and team leader.
Way to continue to avoid all questions about the logic, or lack thereof, in your argument.
Way to continue to make thoughtless and unsubstantiated statements (i.e. UR player SUKZ and MY player RULZ)
Way to continue being a complete and utter waste of everyone's time.
If you can't tell me you were in the Leafs locker room during Sundin's tenure, your arguments are invalid and are virtually stricken from the record.
-8228 |
| Thrasher |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:47:35
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Dude, Tannenbaum has only been part of the equation since like '03 what about all the years before that? How do you know that there were lots of leafs who would say sundin wasnt a good leader and just sat there and let domi run around? Get real, Tie and Mats were friends, that has been well documented. We're talking about Mats' teams from say, '99 - '-04. These were 100 point teams that went deep into the playoffs. Give your head a shake. You just dont like him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Give your head a shake. I don't know Sundin. He may be a great guy, but he sucks as a team captain and is the most overated player to ever play in the NHL. Just watch the remaining of the season as Vancouver continues their swoon dive which started just as Sundin was signed...of course all you Sundin apologists will say, "it's not his fault, the team was going to fold and miss the playoffs, anyway." You Sundin apologists have been singing the same tune for a decade.
PS.- If the Leafs had a real captain during some of their fortunate playoff runs, they would have beaten Buffalo and Carolina in the Semis, and not just beat the Sens and their shoddy goaltending...they even had home advantage in both Conference Final losses, and Sundin still could not deliver as a captain and team leader.
I don't understand all the hate for Sundin lately, but i guess he is the most talked about player in the NHL. Just to be clear, having a leader is important yes, but if you have ever played hockey, the captain cannot be the only player. Look at Detroit winning the cup last year, Lidstrom may have been a good leader, but he did NOT win the cup by himself. People place way to much importance on him being the captain and not winning the cup. When he was in the conference finals, 26 other captains were practising their golf swings. So does that mean you feel the same way about Alfredson? Almost the same situation, but Sundin has better results(other than Ottawas cup run, but that was not just because of Alfredson). Sundin has gone up head to head against him what 4 times? and won every time in the playoffs?? So before we started with Sundin, should we not have done it to Alfredson? Or is this a result of the signing in the middle of the season that has everyone going crazy with Sundin hate. Sundin was not the villian in the whole NTC. He wanted to stay a leaf, he said it numerous times. But come on, after being betrayed like that after so many years of faithful play and becoming the highest scoring leaf player ever. Of course he would leave, no one hear can say (truthfully that is) that they would stick to a team that tried so hard to get rid of you. I think soon we might need a whole forum of trashing Sundin.
(Just so everyone knows NOT a leaf fan, but im sick and tired of seeing a GREAT player put down.) |
| Guest2715 |
Posted - 01/28/2009 : 15:00:29
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Dude, Tannenbaum has only been part of the equation since like '03 what about all the years before that? How do you know that there were lots of leafs who would say sundin wasnt a good leader and just sat there and let domi run around? Get real, Tie and Mats were friends, that has been well documented. We're talking about Mats' teams from say, '99 - '-04. These were 100 point teams that went deep into the playoffs. Give your head a shake. You just dont like him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Give your head a shake. I don't know Sundin. He may be a great guy, but he sucks as a team captain and is the most overated player to ever play in the NHL. Just watch the remaining of the season as Vancouver continues their swoon dive which started just as Sundin was signed...of course all you Sundin apologists will say, "it's not his fault, the team was going to fold and miss the playoffs, anyway." You Sundin apologists have been singing the same tune for a decade.
PS.- If the Leafs had a real captain during some of their fortunate playoff runs, they would have beaten Buffalo and Carolina in the Semis, and not just beat the Sens and their shoddy goaltending...they even had home advantage in both Conference Final losses, and Sundin still could not deliver as a captain and team leader. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 11:22:30
Dude, Tannenbaum has only been part of the equation since like '03 what about all the years before that? How do you know that there were lots of leafs who would say sundin wasnt a good leader and just sat there and let domi run around? Get real, Tie and Mats were friends, that has been well documented. We're talking about Mats' teams from say, '99 - '-04. These were 100 point teams that went deep into the playoffs. Give your head a shake. You just dont like him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 11:05:59
quote:
Like I said ....keep kissing Sundin's rear. He has been living off this B.S reputation as a team leader in Toronto by idiot fans in the GTA for over 12 yeare. I've had this argument for over 10 years in Toronto, and have told people that Sundin would lead this team to nowhere, and he proved me right, time and time again.
p.s - Do you really expect a player to tell the media what he really feels? Trust me, they're many ex-leafs who would not publicly say it in a microphone, but would tell you that Sundin had very little leadership presence in the dressing room. He would keep his mouth shut and say nothing. He had no control over Tie Domi when Domi was pretty much doing as he wanted since he had a good personal relationship with Tannenbaum. The only reason Roberts must think Sundin was the best leader is because he let Roberts be the dressing room leader. I bet Gary Roberts is the one who gave the media bull, because he knows all the moronic Leaf fans that love Sundin would eat it up.
"...proved me right" - My hero.
"Trust me" - So, you were in the locker room? That means you were a coach / player / trainer / etc.?
How many ways can I say it: STOP MAKING FOOLISH ARGUMENTS ABOUT THINGS YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Just stop.
-8228 |
| Guest7867 |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 23:39:30
I was at that game and it's more of a welcome back thing. I kinda like Matts.
Hey Matts Your mommas calling you!! LOL classic |
| Guest2715 |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 18:05:31
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season.
From the 93/94 season, Steve Yzerman averaged less than 60 points a season. That was roughly the season that he figured out that scoring points doesn't win you anything. He had 185 points in 196 playoff games. All of this with a far superior team than the Leafs EVER saw with Mats.
I'm assuming Mats had 70/season as you said. Likewise, he had 74 points in 83 playoff games. Not necessarily the playoff points choker you suggest.
Regardless, do these numbers tell the story of either player?
Seriously. Don't be a points Nazi when it comes time to argue a player's worth.
Why bring up Stevie Y's points after age 30, then accuse me of being a points nazi because I use it too discuss Sundin while comparing his points to his salary.
READ MY LIPS -- YZERMAN NEVER GOT PAID 9 MILLION BUCKS FROM DETROIT. Other guys in Detroit were paid more than him as he got older. He also did not ask for more because he wanted Detroit to sign other great players....something the SELFISH SUNDIN WOULD NEVER DO---TAKE A PAY CUT SO THAT THE TEAM COULD ATTRACT MORE PLAYERS. Sakic and Forsborg did the same in Colorado.
I don't just harp on numbers, you do. That's why you reference Sundin's playoff points, even though he would always end up getting OUTPLAYED AND OUTSCORED by players that were not paid as well in playoff series losses with Toronto and even Quebec.
If you want to kiss Sundin's rear, that's your prerogative. but the truth is obvious....Sundin has not lead any team to the ultimate glory, and he was paid like somebody who should have.
Don't even think of mentioning the Olympics That's a week long tournament in the middle of the regular season and does not compare to the gruelling Stanley Cup Playoffs.
Sundin made big money with the leafs BEFORE there was a salary cap. They could pay him whatever he wanted, it didnt matter then. Once the cap cam einto effect, Sundin was signing with the leafs for 5.5 mil!!!!!
He took such a huge paycut to stay in blue and white and try to give JFJ some extra cap space to bring in guys like Lindros and Allison, O'Neil and Peca. It obviously didn't work out, but to say he was greedy for money is total BS.
Gary Roberts has been quoted as saying "Mats Sundin is the BEST leader I ever played for"
I'll take Gary's word over your bull anyday.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Like I said ....keep kissing Sundin's rear. He has been living off this B.S reputation as a team leader in Toronto by idiot fans in the GTA for over 12 yeare. I've had this argument for over 10 years in Toronto, and have told people that Sundin would lead this team to nowhere, and he proved me right, time and time again.
p.s - Do you really expect a player to tell the media what he really feels? Trust me, they're many ex-leafs who would not publicly say it in a microphone, but would tell you that Sundin had very little leadership presence in the dressing room. He would keep his mouth shut and say nothing. He had no control over Tie Domi when Domi was pretty much doing as he wanted since he had a good personal relationship with Tannenbaum. The only reason Roberts must think Sundin was the best leader is because he let Roberts be the dressing room leader. I bet Gary Roberts is the one who gave the media bull, because he knows all the moronic Leaf fans that love Sundin would eat it up. |
| Guest9278 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 13:07:33
Loyalty with the leafs? Its a personal decision and i dont blame sundin at all.... ITS CALLED NO TRADE CLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats not sundin faults that is the GM faults so all u leafs fan blamming sundin you are all stupid. He did not know if he wanted to play again so what is he going to do.... TRADE ME FOR THE TEAM MAKE MY LIFE MISERABLE? every leafs fan are taking cheap shots at him but if everyone of you was in his position you would of all done the same thing
|
| Guest6196 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 12:26:48
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7454
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Wow, they booed him, eh?
I wouldn't have expected that . . . but as others have said, probably just disgruntled Leafs fans . . . most likely stuck in the frozen tundra of Edmonton, wondering why they headed out there for the oil boom only to find work as a gas station attendant! 
Well, they pay the tickets, so it's their perogative, I suppose. Sundin signing with someone else and stretching out his decision has left a bad taste in my mouth as well, especially since I defended him so often during last year's no-trade debacle. But in my mind, the past years of service still outweighs that, and I will choose to remember him as one of the top 5 Leaf forwards of all time. So, no boos from me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
For your info, this "oil boom" people are coming here for do NOT end up as gas Attendants as you stated. While the rest of the world is in a resession Alberta will continue to be a strong working province, so when you cannot make your morgage payment and you need work, do not come here, you are NOT qualified to be gas Attendant 'cus we need them too!
Ha, Ha, If you think Alberta will be fine please read the paper, not the AB paper but pick up a national paper. |
| Guest4910 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 12:14:12
Quotes from players are meaningless. They cant say one bad word on other players, in particular star players......so dont quote players quotes. |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 10:57:54
quote:
I'll take Gary's word over your bull anyday.
AMEN. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 10:35:35
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season.
From the 93/94 season, Steve Yzerman averaged less than 60 points a season. That was roughly the season that he figured out that scoring points doesn't win you anything. He had 185 points in 196 playoff games. All of this with a far superior team than the Leafs EVER saw with Mats.
I'm assuming Mats had 70/season as you said. Likewise, he had 74 points in 83 playoff games. Not necessarily the playoff points choker you suggest.
Regardless, do these numbers tell the story of either player?
Seriously. Don't be a points Nazi when it comes time to argue a player's worth.
Why bring up Stevie Y's points after age 30, then accuse me of being a points nazi because I use it too discuss Sundin while comparing his points to his salary.
READ MY LIPS -- YZERMAN NEVER GOT PAID 9 MILLION BUCKS FROM DETROIT. Other guys in Detroit were paid more than him as he got older. He also did not ask for more because he wanted Detroit to sign other great players....something the SELFISH SUNDIN WOULD NEVER DO---TAKE A PAY CUT SO THAT THE TEAM COULD ATTRACT MORE PLAYERS. Sakic and Forsborg did the same in Colorado.
I don't just harp on numbers, you do. That's why you reference Sundin's playoff points, even though he would always end up getting OUTPLAYED AND OUTSCORED by players that were not paid as well in playoff series losses with Toronto and even Quebec.
If you want to kiss Sundin's rear, that's your prerogative. but the truth is obvious....Sundin has not lead any team to the ultimate glory, and he was paid like somebody who should have.
Don't even think of mentioning the Olympics That's a week long tournament in the middle of the regular season and does not compare to the gruelling Stanley Cup Playoffs.
Sundin made big money with the leafs BEFORE there was a salary cap. They could pay him whatever he wanted, it didnt matter then. Once the cap cam einto effect, Sundin was signing with the leafs for 5.5 mil!!!!!
He took such a huge paycut to stay in blue and white and try to give JFJ some extra cap space to bring in guys like Lindros and Allison, O'Neil and Peca. It obviously didn't work out, but to say he was greedy for money is total BS.
Gary Roberts has been quoted as saying "Mats Sundin is the BEST leader I ever played for"
I'll take Gary's word over your bull anyday.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest7454 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 09:13:04
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Wow, they booed him, eh?
I wouldn't have expected that . . . but as others have said, probably just disgruntled Leafs fans . . . most likely stuck in the frozen tundra of Edmonton, wondering why they headed out there for the oil boom only to find work as a gas station attendant!
Well, they pay the tickets, so it's their perogative, I suppose. Sundin signing with someone else and stretching out his decision has left a bad taste in my mouth as well, especially since I defended him so often during last year's no-trade debacle. But in my mind, the past years of service still outweighs that, and I will choose to remember him as one of the top 5 Leaf forwards of all time. So, no boos from me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
For your info, this "oil boom" people are coming here for do NOT end up as gas Attendants as you stated. While the rest of the world is in a resession Alberta will continue to be a strong working province, so when you cannot make your morgage payment and you need work, do not come here, you are NOT qualified to be gas Attendant 'cus we need them too! |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 04:47:49
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season.
From the 93/94 season, Steve Yzerman averaged less than 60 points a season. That was roughly the season that he figured out that scoring points doesn't win you anything. He had 185 points in 196 playoff games. All of this with a far superior team than the Leafs EVER saw with Mats.
I'm assuming Mats had 70/season as you said. Likewise, he had 74 points in 83 playoff games. Not necessarily the playoff points choker you suggest.
Regardless, do these numbers tell the story of either player?
Seriously. Don't be a points Nazi when it comes time to argue a player's worth.
Why bring up Stevie Y's points after age 30, then accuse me of being a points nazi because I use it too discuss Sundin while comparing his points to his salary.
READ MY LIPS -- YZERMAN NEVER GOT PAID 9 MILLION BUCKS FROM DETROIT. Other guys in Detroit were paid more than him as he got older. He also did not ask for more because he wanted Detroit to sign other great players....something the SELFISH SUNDIN WOULD NEVER DO---TAKE A PAY CUT SO THAT THE TEAM COULD ATTRACT MORE PLAYERS. Sakic and Forsborg did the same in Colorado.
I don't just harp on numbers, you do. That's why you reference Sundin's playoff points, even though he would always end up getting OUTPLAYED AND OUTSCORED by players that were not paid as well in playoff series losses with Toronto and even Quebec.
If you want to kiss Sundin's rear, that's your prerogative. but the truth is obvious....Sundin has not lead any team to the ultimate glory, and he was paid like somebody who should have.
Don't even think of mentioning the Olympics That's a week long tournament in the middle of the regular season and does not compare to the gruelling Stanley Cup Playoffs.
You should have read G4249's post relative to your original post BEFORE you wrote this. You look rather foolish in your argument. If you didn't understand his post, you should have asked someone.
1. You're very hung up on salary. Yzerman was worth well more than he made. Which means other players are worth what they made. S.Y. was one of the most selfless players to ever play. It doesn't take away from others' unselfishness.
2. Points aren't everything. Sundin did it all, on the ice and off. Getting outscored is inevitable. If being outscored means you aren't worth the money, then only one player in the league is ever worth it. He didn't take Yzerman's stats at "over 30" to compare totals. Ask ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT HOCKEY "when did Yzerman have his best years?" - they'll tell you that they weren't when he scored 150 points. They are when he did everything well, at the sacrifice of high point totals.
3. Was Dominik Hasek a great goalie before he won a Cup? All he had was an Olympic medal......his fans were pretty quick to comment on that.
Select a single year of Sundin's tenure with Toronto that they had a legitimate chance at winning a Cup. After you select that year, let's go back and look at their defence.
Was he the MOST OVERRATED PLAYER in history? Really?
Don't make foolish arguments out of your dislike for a player. Dislike them all you want....but gather some facts and use some common sense.
-8228
|
| Guest8175 |
Posted - 01/11/2009 : 20:31:11
Guest4249, Sundin's contract I am pretty sure is a one-year deal prorated to pay him between 5-6 million for the half a season he's playing. And I'd agree with you that Hossa was a rental player last season playing in Pittsburgh for 3 months, and Pittsburgh knew they'd have a tough time keeping him if they got him. I disagree that he is a rental player this season, as he signed a 1-year contract which commits himself to his team from Training Camp until Stanley Cup Finals. Sundin has waffled for 5 months while the offer was on the table and is only committing now for half a season, which in my opinion, makes him a rental player. |
| Guest4910 |
Posted - 01/11/2009 : 13:20:10
Does Mats Sundin really want to win a Stanley Cup or does he want the 10 millons / 2 years contract? I say he wants money, because the Rangers or the Habs were better teams to pick, and he probably lost tons of cash playing poker the last few months, so BOOOOOOOOOOOO him! |
| Guest2715 |
Posted - 01/11/2009 : 12:51:13
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season.
From the 93/94 season, Steve Yzerman averaged less than 60 points a season. That was roughly the season that he figured out that scoring points doesn't win you anything. He had 185 points in 196 playoff games. All of this with a far superior team than the Leafs EVER saw with Mats.
I'm assuming Mats had 70/season as you said. Likewise, he had 74 points in 83 playoff games. Not necessarily the playoff points choker you suggest.
Regardless, do these numbers tell the story of either player?
Seriously. Don't be a points Nazi when it comes time to argue a player's worth.
Why bring up Stevie Y's points after age 30, then accuse me of being a points nazi because I use it too discuss Sundin while comparing his points to his salary.
READ MY LIPS -- YZERMAN NEVER GOT PAID 9 MILLION BUCKS FROM DETROIT. Other guys in Detroit were paid more than him as he got older. He also did not ask for more because he wanted Detroit to sign other great players....something the SELFISH SUNDIN WOULD NEVER DO---TAKE A PAY CUT SO THAT THE TEAM COULD ATTRACT MORE PLAYERS. Sakic and Forsborg did the same in Colorado.
I don't just harp on numbers, you do. That's why you reference Sundin's playoff points, even though he would always end up getting OUTPLAYED AND OUTSCORED by players that were not paid as well in playoff series losses with Toronto and even Quebec.
If you want to kiss Sundin's rear, that's your prerogative. but the truth is obvious....Sundin has not lead any team to the ultimate glory, and he was paid like somebody who should have.
Don't even think of mentioning the Olympics That's a week long tournament in the middle of the regular season and does not compare to the gruelling Stanley Cup Playoffs.
|
| ThorntonisTHEMAN |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 20:26:36
I got no problems with Sundin not waiving his no-trade clause. It was given him by management and it was completely his right to not leave. I agree, it was self-less of him. Not to mention, he should not at all feel pressured to fix the team all cuz of bad ownership. He enjoyed his time in Toronto and he wanted to finish out his contract.
However, I do have a problem with him waiting half a year to start playing hockey. He has said that being on a hockey team is from training camp to the playoffs. He was very much against playing half a season when Neidermyer and Selanne started the trend but now he has done it himself. And THAT is what has made me lose respect for the man. I don't like the half-season idea at all and I REALLY don't like when someone firsts speaks out against it and then does it himself. |
| Guest4249 |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 19:48:56
What's the definition of "rental player"? Is Marian Hossa a rental player this year? He signed a one year deal, passing up multi-year deals in Pittsburgh, Edmonton and <one other place, I think>.
Sundin has had some injury issues and, at 37, sure was able to use the first part of the year off - signing somewhere wouldn't really have allowed him that.
Does anyone know if his contract is only for this year?
To me, rental = Hossa LAST YEAR. Traded at the deadline, play for 2 months, move on.
This just doesn't say "rental player" to me. |
| Guest8175 |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 17:38:47
I'm an Oiler fan living in Edmonton, and the reason for the boos is a combination of how he mentioned he'll "never be a rental player" and then shows up in the middle of the year, and second, because he's a Canuck now and Oil fans love to have a target on a rival team (just like Phaneuf and Iginla bring in their share of boos in Edmonton). |
| Guest4249 |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 07:07:11
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2715
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season.
From the 93/94 season, Steve Yzerman averaged less than 60 points a season. That was roughly the season that he figured out that scoring points doesn't win you anything. He had 185 points in 196 playoff games. All of this with a far superior team than the Leafs EVER saw with Mats.
I'm assuming Mats had 70/season as you said. Likewise, he had 74 points in 83 playoff games. Not necessarily the playoff points choker you suggest.
Regardless, do these numbers tell the story of either player?
Seriously. Don't be a points Nazi when it comes time to argue a player's worth. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 05:12:35
[/quote]
No it was selfish. HE did not want to be a rental and wanted to enjoy the WHOLE journey. I respect it is his life and his choice.
But it was in Leafs best interests for him to agree to be traded not to make the playoffs. The problem is that Sundin was not selfish enough (meaning wanting to win a Cup for himself), so in essence he screwed both himself (missed winning the Cup with Detroit who wanted him) and the Leafs (missed out on solid assets for a rebuild). LOSE-LOSE.
Did the Leafs make the playoffs? No. (And Sundin must have delusional to think the Leafs would actually make the playoffs last season).
Did Sundin sign up for the WHOLE journey? No.
[/quote]
So you are one the pathetic leaf fans who can't recognize the clubs all time leading point, and goal scorer with respect because he did not want a trade, he did not want to be a rental. Shake your head. What do you think leafs would have gotten in return. Who knows, thats the answer. Maybe would have helped for rebuild, maybe not. Mats has said through his entire career that he does not the idea of rental players, he did not come out with that revelation last season alone.
As for him deciding to wait so long to sign, well I don't agree that as I didn't agree with Niedermayer and Selanne doing it. It seems to be the thing to do now. But on the same token I don't consider it being a, rental. Once he decided he had the ambition to play, he signed with who was the best fit.
I am a leaf fan and reading some of the posts on here by other leaf fans is embarassing, it is so easy to see why other fans in the game despise leaf fans. So to all Leaf fans who think Sundin sunk the team and is a hypocrite, take your head out your a$$, grab a clue and for gods sake stop embarassing the rest of the sane leaf fans, seriously it is pathetic how you say your a true fan of the leafs then act like that. |
| Guest6638 |
Posted - 01/10/2009 : 00:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
With the Leafs was where he wanted to be.....last season....to finish out the CONTRACT that he signed.....with the NO TRADE CLAUSE.
Seriously.
Mats believed the Leafs had a chance to make the playoffs last year. He stayed. It was self-LESS, not selfish. For those of you who think otherwise, I'm sorry. It's just not true.
I live in the States and bought tickets to the Leafs/Canucks game before Sundin signed. I don't know how many boos he'll get, but I know at least 2 that he will not get. He's one of the classiest to ever play the game. I wish him well.
-8228
No it was selfish. HE did not want to be a rental and wanted to enjoy the WHOLE journey. I respect it is his life and his choice.
But it was in Leafs best interests for him to agree to be traded not to make the playoffs. The problem is that Sundin was not selfish enough (meaning wanting to win a Cup for himself), so in essence he screwed both himself (missed winning the Cup with Detroit who wanted him) and the Leafs (missed out on solid assets for a rebuild). LOSE-LOSE.
Did the Leafs make the playoffs? No. (And Sundin must have delusional to think the Leafs would actually make the playoffs last season).
Did Sundin sign up for the WHOLE journey? No.
|
| Guest5898 |
Posted - 01/09/2009 : 21:46:09
im an oiler fan who was at the game and i booed him on the leafs behalf, also it was fun and there was no one else to boo |
| Guest2715 |
Posted - 01/09/2009 : 17:11:06
I've been booing Sundin for over 10 years.
It's about time the rest of the hockey fans in the world now realize something that I knew long ago.
SUNDIN IS THE MOST OVERATED AND SELFISH PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL. To think the Leafs paid him over 70 million dollars throughout the years, so that he could just average over 70 points a season. Then he ends up kicking the organization in the teeth by refusing to waive his no trade clause after being taken care of financially by that hockey team for over a decade.
To the MORONS in Toronto who think Sundin was the greatest thing, GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE AND STOP TURNING OFF YOUR TV SET after the Leafs are eliminated from the playoffs...if you did, you would have watched real captains and real leaders be valuable members of their teams and LEADING THEM TO THE STANLEY CUP, something Sundin was incapable and even worse, unwilling to do as a captain and a skilled player. His playoff performances were always disappointing as he was continually upstaged by players that were supposedly inferior in talent.
I say good riddance to Sundin not being in Toronto anymore and can't wait to hear him get deservedly booed at the ACC and in GM place when he fails to score in 12 games and leads his new team to his typical first round exit because of his underperformance. |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/09/2009 : 06:11:26
Wow, they booed him, eh?
I wouldn't have expected that . . . but as others have said, probably just disgruntled Leafs fans . . . most likely stuck in the frozen tundra of Edmonton, wondering why they headed out there for the oil boom only to find work as a gas station attendant!
Well, they pay the tickets, so it's their perogative, I suppose. Sundin signing with someone else and stretching out his decision has left a bad taste in my mouth as well, especially since I defended him so often during last year's no-trade debacle. But in my mind, the past years of service still outweighs that, and I will choose to remember him as one of the top 5 Leaf forwards of all time. So, no boos from me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest8228 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:53:47
With the Leafs was where he wanted to be.....last season....to finish out the CONTRACT that he signed.....with the NO TRADE CLAUSE.
Seriously.
Mats believed the Leafs had a chance to make the playoffs last year. He stayed. It was self-LESS, not selfish. For those of you who think otherwise, I'm sorry. It's just not true.
I live in the States and bought tickets to the Leafs/Canucks game before Sundin signed. I don't know how many boos he'll get, but I know at least 2 that he will not get. He's one of the classiest to ever play the game. I wish him well.
-8228 |
| goleafsgosjnb |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:46:35
The difference between Sundin and selanne/Niedermyer was the amount of press. Sundin has been among the top stories all year long and the circus surrounding his courtship was unprecedented.
My guess is these boos were directed at the whole 7 month spectacle the media created for Sundin. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:34:41
It actually surprised me a little that there were boos coming from the fans in Edmonton towards Sundin. I do agree with previous posters that they are Oil fans with some ties to TO or Leafs fans themselves.
Generally, the Oiler fans will boo players that left the Oilers with a bad taste in their mouths. Comrie and Pronger come to mind the most. Arnott at one time because he left the Oilers to play with the Star who are mortal enemies to the Oil.
However, one thing I do like is that rarely do the Oilers break out the "Insert Team Name Here" Sucks. I hear that from other fans in the league (actually mostly Calgary and Vancouver) but I don't here it from Oiler fans. I dig that! |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 07:26:04
Sundin can do whatever he wants, does Mats Sundin tell you what to do with your life? Get over it people, it was Peddie and JFJ's fault for the NTC mess in Toronto. He was obviously pissed at how the Leafs were treating him after all the years of service and stuck it to them. Why wouldn't he want to enjoy being a UFA and take some time off?
While I agree it would have been great to get something for Sundin, that just didn't happen. Again, blame the MLSE management for that mess, not Mats. If Tucker, McCabe, Kaberle and Kubina did not have NTC's and were moved, none of this would be an issue. Mats was the only one who deserved his NTC.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Guest1722 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 04:16:29
As a Leafs fan, if I were at that game, I would have booed as well. Last season we had trades set up to dump Sundin, but what did he say. He said his loyalties were with the Leafs, and that is where he wanted to be. He also stated that he did not want to go somewhere in the middle of the season, if he was going to go he wanted to go for a full season. What did he do, he did the exact opposite of what he said he would do. He left the Leafs, and he did not play his first game until Jan 7th. Do not get me wrong, I think Sundin is over rated and did not want him back with the Buds, but if his blood was true blue he would have either retired, resigned with the Leafs, or accepted a trade last year. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 01/08/2009 : 03:34:28
I have a feeling the boos were from leaf fans as they are everywhere but this does not make a lot sense to me. If it were the Oil fans that were booing because he took time to make his decision then why did they not boo Scott Niedermayer and Selanne last year. Gotta love the Oil fans they are almost as crazy as leaf fans. |
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