| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 05:09:41
With most big names come and gone in the FA market this year there is one big name we have herd nothing about, no rumours, no information about who he is talking with nothing nadda zilch,! (unless someone has herd something i havn't) What is going on with Alex Tanguay could it be his shoulders are finished from last season and noone wants to take a chance? Tanguay's career numbers are very impressive and last year although he was hurt (for the first time in his career) he was close to a point per game and he led montreal in plus minus,, whats going on with this guy?
Pasty |
| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 05:01:39
But really . . . what about Tanguay? 
As an aside Beans - I did a lot of sportsbetting in the past, and the way to make money is to correctly predict ahead of time which teams will make a big leap forward. It really isn't easy, and the odds are, the team will probably end up around where they were before . . . which is why Vegas odds and the sports bettors who take their cue always stick closer to what happened in the past as being more likely to happen again.
So yes, a majority of those predicted bottom feeders will be bottom feeders . . . but a few won't. Because looking at this list, it's almost a complete mirror of how we would have ranked all the teams mid season . . . and the one thing that is a constant, is that there is always change. Some of the good teams will fall; some of the bad or mediocre teams will rise.
So: the sports bettors rank TB exactly in the same spot as last year basically, yet they improved their team in a few key areas and you'd have to think that their big stars aren't going to slump two years in a row. Those same sports bettors previously predicted TB to also finish around the same as the year before last year, and they were wrong.
I say, they'll be wrong again.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 18:28:59
Alright, here we go. I looked through Bodog, MySportsBook, and Betus.com which appear to be the biggest of the sports gambling sites that have NHL hockey. Here's what I found out.
All the sites where virtually the same. With the exceptions of the Leafs, Colorado, Florida, and Nashville being a little higher or low in one sportsbook compared to the other two. And again, I trust these guys more so than the actual 'hockey pundits' and they have a HUGE amount of money behind it. They may not be dead right, but they are mostly right which is proven by the sportsbook always making money.
Anyway, let's not get into details but I'll group the teams into 4 groups.
Front Runners
These teams are anywhere from 4/1 to 11/1 or +450 to +1000(for those not gamblers, the closer to 0, the better the odds in the +/- system)
Detroit, San Jose, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Washington
The Not So Long Shots
These teams are anywhere from 16/1 to 30/1 or +1000 to +4000
Philadelphia, Anaheim, Calgary, New Jersey, Vancouver, Carolina, Montreal, New York Rangers
The Getting Longer Shots
These teams are anywhere from 30/1 to 45/1 or +4000 to +5000
St. Louis, Ottawa, Dallas, Edmonton, Minnesota, Buffalo, Columbus
The Longest of the Long Shots
These teams are more than 45/1 or more than +5000
Toronto, Florida, Los Angeles, Nashville, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Atlanta, New York Islanders
Specifically speaking about Tampa Bay, the sportsbooks unanimously ranked them 4th to last with only Phoenix, Atlanta, and the Islanders behind them.
I guess I am not that stupid after all.
On a side note from a different thread, it's nice to see that both Edmonton(40/1, +3000 or +4000) and Ottawa(exact same odds) are ahead of the Leafs (70/1, +10000, or +4500) in all three books. |
| redneck76ca |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 17:49:46
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Funny because I seem to remember ALOT of people predicting TB to finish anywhere from 2-8 in the East. How'd that work out? It's amazing how a little hype can sway a simple mind. TB improved, but they're still going to get a lottery pick next year.
Wow, a voice of reason! It's nice to see that I am not completely crazy!
And yeah, people who pick rankings out of a magazine are rarely correct. Last season, how many people picked Pitt to win the Cup?? Few. How many picked Dallas to miss the playoffs?? How many picked Montreal to be near the top of the East?? How many people picked Boston to lead the East???
I put significantly more stake into Vegas odds makers because those guys actually have money at stake. Large amounts of money. Unfortunatly from work I can not get into gambling sites however if my wife stays off the computer for more than 10 minutes tonight, I will dig around and post the odds as of today. I would suggest that TB is ranked well in the bottom 10 teams.
I think that they should improve this year but not by much. They will still rely heavily on Vinny and Marty to do most of the scoring. 12th in the East behind the Leafs. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 15:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Funny because I seem to remember ALOT of people predicting TB to finish anywhere from 2-8 in the East. How'd that work out? It's amazing how a little hype can sway a simple mind. TB improved, but they're still going to get a lottery pick next year.
Wow, a voice of reason! It's nice to see that I am not completely crazy!
And yeah, people who pick rankings out of a magazine are rarely correct. Last season, how many people picked Pitt to win the Cup?? Few. How many picked Dallas to miss the playoffs?? How many picked Montreal to be near the top of the East?? How many people picked Boston to lead the East???
I put significantly more stake into Vegas odds makers because those guys actually have money at stake. Large amounts of money. Unfortunatly from work I can not get into gambling sites however if my wife stays off the computer for more than 10 minutes tonight, I will dig around and post the odds as of today. I would suggest that TB is ranked well in the bottom 10 teams. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 14:49:13
Beans, and others....Was reading my "The Score Sports Forecaster" magazine the other day, studying up for hockey pool season and they're picking TB to be 8th in the conference! Then again, they're picking Toronto 6th and Montreal 10th? Should be interesting to see how this unfolds. They're also picking your Oilers to squeeze into the playoffs in the 8th seed out west however, their pick of the Flames to hoist the cup says the Oil will not be around long  .
Never easy to pick these things, but it's kinda funny how they can make money and be completely wrong some of the time? |
| MSC |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 13:58:03
Funny because I seem to remember ALOT of people predicting TB to finish anywhere from 2-8 in the East. How'd that work out? It's amazing how a little hype can sway a simple mind. TB improved, but they're still going to get a lottery pick next year. |
| Leafs81 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 13:36:11
I believe Tampa has two solid lines who can score. If you put Tanguay on the second line with Stamkos. Then you have Lecavalier, St-Louis and Malone. On the second you have Stamkos, Tanguay and Downie.
There top 4 d's is all right especially if Hedman has calder considerations. Mike Smith is a really good goalie and his the real deal. He now has two solid backups Nitiimaki (sp?) and Karri Ramo.
Their is many ifs on this team but just like many other eastern conference team. They will fight for a playoff spot. 6 to 8. In their own division only Washington and Carolina could finish in front of them. So being second or third in the division you got to like their chances.
Coaching change and Lecavalier healthy will also help them.
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 12:27:23
I still don't see anyone bringing anything to the table that tells me TB is the real deal. Sure, Ohlund is an improvement. But Ranger is coming off an injury and a season where he had only 13 points in 42 games., he's iffy. Meszaroz is a shadow of his former self in Ottawa with his All Star Level 16 points in 52 games, and Hedmen has never played an NHL game?? He might not even play this year??? Yep, that defence(who had only 1 player appearing in more than 20 games and was +) is going to be elite, playoff caliber by adding Ohlund and a stud rookie???
And again, who is the secondary scoring??? Stamkos and..........(I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a long time for a real answer to that). And there is a reason that Smith was a 5th round pick and has been a backup in all the other stops he has made in the NHL. He only played 41 games last season and has a losing record??
Ah yes, the dreams of the brilliant coming to the forefront. What was I thinking. I mean I have never played hockey before so that must make me completely blind and stupid. Thanks Mr. Guest. I've been enlightened once again. But, come to think of it, others that know a thing or two about hockey have never played before either. Ken Hitchcock comes to mind. |
| Guest6729 |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 09:49:06
quote:
Originally posted by sharksfan44
whoa whoa whoa boys, lets all calm down. i agree with u, smith is not a pylon and in my opinion is a verry good goalie. but everyone has the right to their own opinion. obviously beans doesn't believe that smith is a very good goalie, but theres no need to call him a joke. with well over 3 thousand posts on this website, i think he knows a thing or two about hockey. and guest6729 im pretty sure he's watched some hockey before.
3000 post of garbage who never played a game of organized hockey in his life. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 04:36:52
Well said Sharksfan.
I would definitely take the TB defence though . . . especially if this Hedman kid pans out like he should. I think the real problem last year in TB was coaching, myself - certainly not that talent.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| sharksfan44 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 20:38:02
whoa whoa whoa boys, lets all calm down. i agree with u, smith is not a pylon and in my opinion is a verry good goalie. but everyone has the right to their own opinion. obviously beans doesn't believe that smith is a very good goalie, but theres no need to call him a joke. with well over 3 thousand posts on this website, i think he knows a thing or two about hockey. and guest6729 im pretty sure he's watched some hockey before. |
| Guest7633 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 19:29:59
Who does this Beans guy think he is. Calling Smith a pylon what a joke. Your a joke Beans |
| Guest6729 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 16:32:04
wow did u just call smith a pylon watch some hockey first then start talking |
| Guest7633 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 16:07:38
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Gostarsgo12
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The latest rumor that I heard is that there are about 6 teams looking at Tanguay(including both teams in FLA) but most of the deals are short term and less than $2 million a season.
Kind of a kick in the teeth for a guy who just 2 seasons ago was a PPG player and 1/2 of this NHL seasons are PPG or higher. Seriously, if an arbitrator award Zherdev nearly $4 million, Tangauy is for certain worth more than $2 million.
He would make Tampa even more of a threat. Nice couple of scoring lines being made in Tampa. Too bad there isn't much else there.
Isnt else much there really??? I like the checking forwards they got in Halpern, Hall, Veilluix, Craig, Fedoruk, Downie behind the 2 scoring lines along with a new look on the back end bringing in a leader like Ohlund, Drafting a guy who can play in the NHL right away like Hedman I like this team alot.
2 scoring lines?? Comprised of who??? Obviously, Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Tanguay would be the #1. Stamkos and?? Exactly. And Ohlund, Hedmen, Ranger, and Meszaroz is not a top 4 defense that too many GM's would be too exticed about taking into a playoffs. They also have glorefied plyons in net.
TB missed the playoffs and gets another top 5 pick next season. Great 1st line, decent top 2 defensemen, a couple of stud rookies?? That's weak in today's NHL.
Does this guy have any idea about what he's talking about Ohlund, Hedman, Ranger, and Meszaros are all great defencemen. Lets look at the Pittsburgh Defence of last year there top 4 were Gonchar, Letang, Scuderi, Orpik. Those are similiar defence corps and consider that tampa has Foster who is similiar to Orpik really Tampa has a solid top 4 d. As for goaltending. Pylons!!!! you got to be kidding me Mike Smith is only going to continue to get better and Nittyimaki is a great backup.
Get your head out of your ass. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 15:44:04
quote:
Originally posted by Gostarsgo12
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The latest rumor that I heard is that there are about 6 teams looking at Tanguay(including both teams in FLA) but most of the deals are short term and less than $2 million a season.
Kind of a kick in the teeth for a guy who just 2 seasons ago was a PPG player and 1/2 of this NHL seasons are PPG or higher. Seriously, if an arbitrator award Zherdev nearly $4 million, Tangauy is for certain worth more than $2 million.
He would make Tampa even more of a threat. Nice couple of scoring lines being made in Tampa. Too bad there isn't much else there.
Isnt else much there really??? I like the checking forwards they got in Halpern, Hall, Veilluix, Craig, Fedoruk, Downie behind the 2 scoring lines along with a new look on the back end bringing in a leader like Ohlund, Drafting a guy who can play in the NHL right away like Hedman I like this team alot.
2 scoring lines?? Comprised of who??? Obviously, Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Tanguay would be the #1. Stamkos and?? Exactly. And Ohlund, Hedmen, Ranger, and Meszaroz is not a top 4 defense that too many GM's would be too exticed about taking into a playoffs. They also have glorefied plyons in net.
TB missed the playoffs and gets another top 5 pick next season. Great 1st line, decent top 2 defensemen, a couple of stud rookies?? That's weak in today's NHL. |
| Gostarsgo12 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 13:42:04
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The latest rumor that I heard is that there are about 6 teams looking at Tanguay(including both teams in FLA) but most of the deals are short term and less than $2 million a season.
Kind of a kick in the teeth for a guy who just 2 seasons ago was a PPG player and 1/2 of this NHL seasons are PPG or higher. Seriously, if an arbitrator award Zherdev nearly $4 million, Tangauy is for certain worth more than $2 million.
He would make Tampa even more of a threat. Nice couple of scoring lines being made in Tampa. Too bad there isn't much else there.
Isnt else much there really??? I like the checking forwards they got in Halpern, Hall, Veilluix, Craig, Fedoruk, Downie behind the 2 scoring lines along with a new look on the back end bringing in a leader like Ohlund, Drafting a guy who can play in the NHL right away like Hedman I like this team alot. |
| Gostarsgo12 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 13:38:11
Tampa Bay does have weapons up front but really at the end of the day its not whats on paper its how the guys gel and the chemistry they have. Defensively they got a good mix of puck movers. Ohlund, Meszaros, Ranger and a good mix of big Strong D men, Hedman (put in both categories), Smaby, Foster.
Mike Smith did have 18 losses last year but still had a GAA of 2.62 and you gotta consider the defense that played in front of him. He is a good goalie and Tampa Bay does have a solid backup in Nittimaki in case Smith gets into trouble.
My prediction Tampa Bay comes 6th in conference |
| sharksfan44 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 11:36:08
u would think that this makes tampa a pretty competitive team, and will definitely be in the running for a playoff spot. with guys like lecavailer, st.louis, stamkos, malone, on offense, plus there strong defensive core with guys like hedman, foster, ohland and mezaros. plus I THINK mike smith is a very good goalie if he gets help from the guys ahead of him. i think tampa will definetely have a shot at the playoffs this year. |
| Guest4271 |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 11:14:53
RDS has just reported that Tanguay has signed with the Tampa Bay Lighting. Its conditional on him passing his physical. No terms were released. If this is true Tampa should be able to put together two very good scoring lines. Does it make them a playoof team??? |
| Axey |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 21:36:18
The question then remains, why in the hell would the Habs let him go if he is only 2 mill or less?
I can't see him getting anything less than 3.5 mill when its all said and done. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 10:55:16
The latest rumor that I heard is that there are about 6 teams looking at Tanguay(including both teams in FLA) but most of the deals are short term and less than $2 million a season.
Kind of a kick in the teeth for a guy who just 2 seasons ago was a PPG player and 1/2 of this NHL seasons are PPG or higher. Seriously, if an arbitrator award Zherdev nearly $4 million, Tangauy is for certain worth more than $2 million.
He would make Tampa even more of a threat. Nice couple of scoring lines being made in Tampa. Too bad there isn't much else there. |
| Guest2332 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 10:14:47
Alex Tanguay change is agent and they seems to negociate with the Lightning. If he is healthy, that will make Tampa Bay a great threat. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 05:13:06
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
This would be a suitable contract for Tanguay...
1 Year / Incentive Based Deal with a club option for a 2nd and 3rd year.
Year 1 - $1.2 Million (Up to $4 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Year 2 - Club Option $2.3 Million (Up to $4 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Year 3 - Club Option $3 Million (Up to $4.5 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Total (1 Year) = $1.2 - $4 Million
Total (2 Year) = $2.5 - $8 Million
Total (3 Year) = $5.5 Million - $12.5 Million
This would make sense simply because there is not guarantee if he can avoid the injury bug. This gives him the opportunity to make good money, and protects the team if he only plays 1/2 the season. However, we all know he'll sign in Phoenix or Florida for 3 Years / $12 - $15 Million...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
i don't think tanguay would even consider this, infact if i were tangauy this deal would be insulting and i wouldn't have anymore negotiations with the team that lowballed me like that,,, the guy has never had a longterm injury besides this past year,, he is almost a point per game player that can play in all situation as plays both ends of the rink not to mention he is 28 entering his prime he s worth what he got on his last contrack 5 million a year no more thats forsure but no less than 4 mil
Pasty |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 05:56:15
This would be a suitable contract for Tanguay...
1 Year / Incentive Based Deal with a club option for a 2nd and 3rd year.
Year 1 - $1.2 Million (Up to $4 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Year 2 - Club Option $2.3 Million (Up to $4 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Year 3 - Club Option $3 Million (Up to $4.5 Million based on G, A, PTS and +/-)
Total (1 Year) = $1.2 - $4 Million
Total (2 Year) = $2.5 - $8 Million
Total (3 Year) = $5.5 Million - $12.5 Million
This would make sense simply because there is not guarantee if he can avoid the injury bug. This gives him the opportunity to make good money, and protects the team if he only plays 1/2 the season. However, we all know he'll sign in Phoenix or Florida for 3 Years / $12 - $15 Million...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 04:49:54
You know, Colorado would do well to pick him up, that's where he started out and he put up some of his best numbers there. At the same time, it's a whole different crew, so none of the baggage, and he can have a fresh start in a comfortable place.
If he goes to Colorado and is healthy, he'd play with some great young talent, and put up very good numbers. In Florida, I can see him getting about 20 points less.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 20:19:42
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Wouldnt tanguay be a good top 6 type for the Leafs if they could get him at say.... 1 year 3.5mil? The leafs have cap space for this season, he would come off the books July 1st and gives them a much needed offensive threat 5 on 5 and on the PP. Depending on how his physical would go, I think it would be a good signing for Toronto.
I dont think id give him 2 years unless he is willing to play for 2mil - 2.5mil.
You just know he is holding out for a multi year deal probably in the 3.5mil - 4mil range. Tanguay may have priced himself out of the market, and is going to have to settle for either a lousy team who will pay him close to what he wants, or a good team for a reduced salary and a reduced term.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I think the Leafs would do well to pick him up at the right price. If he is looking long term, maybe not, but a 2 or 3 year deal at 3 mill per wouldn't be so bad? Not sure if that'd be enough to get him though (and they'd have to be sure about his health). |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 13:54:36
Their really trying to get him back in Colorado |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 07:47:00
Wouldnt tanguay be a good top 6 type for the Leafs if they could get him at say.... 1 year 3.5mil? The leafs have cap space for this season, he would come off the books July 1st and gives them a much needed offensive threat 5 on 5 and on the PP. Depending on how his physical would go, I think it would be a good signing for Toronto.
I dont think id give him 2 years unless he is willing to play for 2mil - 2.5mil.
You just know he is holding out for a multi year deal probably in the 3.5mil - 4mil range. Tanguay may have priced himself out of the market, and is going to have to settle for either a lousy team who will pay him close to what he wants, or a good team for a reduced salary and a reduced term.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 05:25:33
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Maybe Florida? Not sure if he'd want to go to that graveyard, though.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
It's funny because I can see him in a Panther's jersey. Not only looking at it from a hockey perspective, but a like style. Hockey wise, he gets to be the go-to guy on a team that seems to be filled with "up and comer's" every season (still waiting for them to pan out). He'll play big minutes, and be around a PPG. Life style wise, he gets to live in Florida. He's reasonably young, so Sunset beach in his Porsche, or Ferrari (You know he has one), and well, we all know what happens when you mix a cocktail..fast car, hot sun and hot girls...not to mention million dollar salary lol...so yea, I can see him going to Florida for more then just hockey, hell, I would haha
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 05:17:37
Maybe Florida? Not sure if he'd want to go to that graveyard, though.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 05:02:18
It's funny because when he's healthy, he's a really, really skilled forward. He'll probably go somewhere that's young and rebuilding so he can be a top 3 forward on the team.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 07:18:34
Doing a quick search myself, it seems that Tanguay and his agent are looking at 5 or 6 teams, and Florida seems to be one of them.
Of course, if one of them was Toronto, a smart agent would keep quiet about it so as not to derail any potential deal by inciting the crazy media . . . but I am not so sure Burke is a fan, so I'd say that's unlikely. Hard to really tell who else might be a buyer for Tanguay, as you said, not a lot of talk about it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
