| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 10:40:50
EDIT: This article is titled "Perspective (or "Your team sucks too")" by daoust, from the hockeyblog pensionplanpuppets.
Ok, some of you may recognize this article from browsing the net for hockey news over the past year, I thought it made for interesting discussion. This is not my work, nor will I reveal where it came from as to not piss off the admins. With the heated Leafs vs Habs neverending debate going on, I thought Id through a little more fuel on the fire. What do you guys think about this? here we go (I hope im not in trouble for posting someone elses work)
warning: this has a strong Leafs bias, I want to hear from fans of other canadian teams, maybe you can provide some interesting information to share with the rest of us 
-----------------
So to start, here are the regular season records of all the Canadian teams going back to 92/93 (when Ottawa joined the league).
Regular Season - Canadian Teams since 92/93
Tor 610-495-112-36-25 (W-L-T-OTL-SOL)
Van 588-502-128-35-24
Mtl 588-508-120-40-21
Cgy 567-520-135-39-17
Ott 559-547-115-34-22
Edm 533-553-128-44-20
Hmmm... so the Leafs have won more games than any Canadian team in the last 15 years? That can't be right. We've been consistently mediocre, remember? Hockey Night in Canada has chosen to showcase the hapless Leafs instead of the rest of the Canadian teams, that play a much higher calibre of hockey, remember?
Here is Toronto's record vs all Canadian teams during this period, inclusive of playoffs where applicable (Ottawa).
vs Calgary: 27-13-1-3-0
vs Edmonton: 26-13-3-1-0
vs Vancouver: 23-18-6-0-1
vs Montreal: 38-23-4-2-4
vs Ottawa: 44-41-3-4-3
TOTAL AGAINST ALL CDN TEAMS: 158-108-17-10-8!!!
Wow. Just... wow. WE'RE the ones that suck??
But never mind that. Everyone knows the regular season is irrelevant anyway and the playoffs are the main event. So here is each team's respective playoff record over the same period.
Playoffs - Canadian Teams (*denotes cup win)
Leafs 66-66 (132 GP) -- 10 series won
Sens 49-54 (103 GP) -- 8 series won
Canucks 44-52 (96 GP) -- 7 series won
Habs 43-46 (89 GP)* -- 7 series won
Flames 31-39 (70 GP) -- 3 series won
Oil 30-39 (69 GP) -- 5 series won
(Further begrudgingly presented fact - all of the Canadian teams have made a Cup Final appearance in this time, except for the Leafs. There, I said it. We did have 4 conference final appearances though, and besides the Sens (2), the rest of the teams have 1)
Well isn't that something - the Leafs have played in and won more playoff games (and series) than any other Canadian team? That must be a statistical anomaly or something. That just can't be right.
For a further comparison, here are the playoff records of a handful of other teams around the NHL…
Playoffs - Other select Teams
Detroit 123-80 (203 GP) ****
Jersey 99-77 (176 GP)***
Colorado 99-76 (175 GP)**
Dallas 74-67 (141 GP)*
Philly 73-67 (140 GP)
Toronto 66-66 (132 GP)
Buffalo 65-55 (120 GP)
Pittsburgh 64-62 (126 GP)
San Jose 57-62 (119 GP)
St Louis 52-56 (108 GP)
Anaheim 46-33 (79 GP)*
Rangers 45-38 (83 GP)*
Carolina 33-27 (62 GP)*
Washington 32-43 (75GP)
TBay 26-25 (51 GP)*
Hawks 20-27 (47 GP)
The Isle 15-29 (44 GP)
And here were some other tidbits I dug up last year, when the Leafs missing the playoffs 3 consecutive years for the first time in franchise history was the storyline of choice for the mittenstringers (who apparently forgot about or didn't see the releveance of the Norris division and the "16 of 21 teams make the playoffs" format).
Calgary --- missed playoffs 7 seasons in a row (96/97 – 02/03); were 6th when they made their cup run in 03/04, which was and still is the only time in the last 18 seasons they have won a playoff series (ie 3 series won in 1 season, 0 won in 17 seasons);
Vancouver --- missed playoffs 4 seasons in a row (96/97 – 99/00; also their first 4 years in existence); they were 7th seed and had a record of 41-40-3 when they made the cup final in 93/94;
Edmonton --- missed playoffs 4 seasons in a row (92/93 – 95/96); they were 8th seed when they made the cup final in 05/06 (first 8th seed to do so) and missed the playoffs the seasons before and after; have won 5 playoff series since 92/93 season (3 during their cup run, 2 in the other 14 seasons);
Montreal --- missed playoffs 3 seasons in a row (98/99 – 00/01); finished above 7th in conference once since 92/93.
Ottawa --- missed playoffs 4 seasons in a row (their first 4 --- 92/93 – 95/96); lost in first round 6 times; lost to leafs 4 times;
Also… at the time last year, besides being the only Canadian team that had never missed the playoffs more than 2 seasons in a row before, they were also the only original 6 team as well. In fact, the only NHL franchises that had never missed the playoffs 3 seasons in a row were Toronto, St Louis, San Jose and the Minnesota Wild (Toronto and St Louis both did last year, so that leaves just the Sharks and Wild). Funny how that little bit of trivia didn't get any airtime.
Ok, I think that's enough for now. Hopefully you can take at least one of the pieces of info above and put it to good use over the next few weeks. I actually almost won a bet with a Flames fan at work who couldn't believe his team had only made it past the first round once in 17 seasons. Unfortunately when I wagered $1000 he sensed my confidence and backed off. Don't make the same mistake kids - be coy.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sensfan101 |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 06:05:30
Regular season Sens were the best Playoffs Leafs are the best and sens are the worst
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 18:56:32
Wow, awesome stuff beans.
I do beleive that the leafs got wayyyy to used to just spending wildly and when the cap came to be they were like a deer in headlights. They didn't know what hit'em. JFJ was completley inexperienced and the Toronto market was thirsty for hockey to come back and for the Leafs to at the top of the NHL. Obviously things haven't worked out very well.
I really feel for the Oilers for all the reasons you mentioned. To see the team just ripped of its stars over and over must be heart wrenching. The run to the final must have been to amazing in Edmonton.
redneck- i agree man, the cup is the ultimate measure. I cant beleive the leafs are still in second place
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 18:32:36
OK, so I did a little bit of the research and so far I am finding my assumptions true. In the past 16 seasons (92/93 through 08/09 is 16 seasons) the Leafs do have more wins than any other Canadian Team.
In the past 10 years, the Senators are Canada's winningest regular season team with 446 wins. The Leafs 2nd with 410 wins.
In the past 5 season, the Senators are against Canada's winningest regular season team with 222 wins followed closely by Calgary(219 wins) and Vancouver (218 wins). Then Montreal with 213 wins. The Leafs are a reasonably distant 5th with 196 wins and the lowely Oilers(ouch) with 188 wins.
So as I said, once the playing field was leveled with the salary cap, the Leafs could not complete. However, I will agree that JFJ didn't help matters much.
Also, it's interesting to see the win %.
The Leafs, through the past 15 years, have a win % of 47.8%. Looking at the past 10 years, they were dead at 50% and in the past 5 seasons they are at 47.8% again. The other Canadian teams(except for Edmonton) all have periods over 50%. So it's also appearing that the Leafs haven't really done better or worse, just the other teams had periods of improvements.
I'll keep digging. |
| redneck76ca |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 17:31:05
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Slozo - no problem, I would be happy to. I just didnt want to provide a link to another website that also has hockey forums.
7752 - go fly a kite. what has any canadian team won in that time frame aside from the 93 habs? also, the first 4 seasons of the sens totally count...you cant pick and choose what stats you like and dont like...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
The only thing that matters in the end is who won the Cup. That is the ultimate measure. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 17:19:38
Mr.Roberts, you are kind of agreeing with me. The past 4 years is when the salary cap leveled the playing field for all teams. So, it is a valid arguement to say that with no limit to what players could be paid, the higher profitnig teams could have an advantage. Toroto was one of those teams. They had more cash than perhaps all the teams in Canada combined (except Montreal).
It's like the Yankee's in Baseball today. It's not surprising that they are often one of the top 2-3 teams in the league with an unlimited budget. I mean, look at A-Rod and Texeria. That's $50 million a season. Almost as much as an entire salary for an NHL team on 2 players. That's an advanatage that a team like Pittsburgh or Kansas City just doesn't have. Toronto had that advantage in the 90's and obviously used it very well.
Facts are facts and I will conceed the fact that the Leafs have won more games than the other Canadian teams in the past 15 years. But I still want to do the numbers to compare the past 5, 10, and 15 years.
And, I'll trump your JFJ. How about having Peter Pocklington as the team owner???? What about having the GM of the team leave and pilfer all the great players to their new team and win the Cup?? There was something like 9 former Oilers on the Cup winning Ranger team in 95.
Advantage, Beans.
 |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:53:36
Beans - cool, this is the kind of debate im trying to stir up. The other canadian teams were most definatley strapped for cash, but it could have been worse, you could have had JFJ as your GM.... For some reason when the leafs suck, everyone seems to kick them to death once they are down, it didnt seem to happen as much to other clubs, or is it just the fact that I wasn't aware of it? It felt more like "awww....the small canadian teams suck ass because the have no money...aww...". Since the Leafs are rich, the attitude seems to be "Those cock sucking bastards deserve to suck! look at how much money they make!"
The leafs had over 100 point seasons in the first half of the 2000's as well, so it wasnt all in the early to mid 1990's. The last 4 seasons have been pretty mediocre for the leafs no doubt... and thats putting it nicley...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:47:04
Slozo - no problem, I would be happy to. I just didnt want to provide a link to another website that also has hockey forums.
7752 - go fly a kite. what has any canadian team won in that time frame aside from the 93 habs? also, the first 4 seasons of the sens totally count...you cant pick and choose what stats you like and dont like...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:45:53
This article is going back 15 years. Through the better part of the 90's, one has to remember that most of the Canadian teams were significantly strapped for cash and could not compete with many American teams and the big Canadian dogs (TO and MONT).
TO was a huge salary team until the salary cap came into effect.
This would be very interesting to compare looking at the past 15 years, the past 10 years, and the past 5 years. I would venture to say that the Canadian teams overall the past 5 years are a lot closer with the Leafs more than likely being the in the lower part. If my assumption is correct, would it not be fair to say that the Leafs can compete with unlimited cash, but when the salary cap leveled the playing field, the Leafs could no longer compete??
Most of the Leaf success in the past 15 years were in the first 5ish years, not the latest 5ish years.
I an on vacation from work for the next couple weeks. I will take a look at the past 10 and 5 years to see what kind of numbers come up. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:34:40
" Wow. Just... wow. WE'RE the ones that suck?? "
You ARE the ones that suck... you haven't won anything in that period other than pointless wins and an amazing way of interpreting performace.
Leafs just can't win when it counts!
THAT must suck more than losing 'cause of all those amazing years of DOMINANCE !!!
Thanks for proving to the rest of the forum readers just how bad this team really sucks. |
| Odin |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 11:49:00
cut off those first four "wilderness" seasons and its easily the Sens. Hands down.
Plus the Habs are the only ones with a cup in that timeframe. I know you knew that was coming.
But again, you can't argue its the Sens despite the playoff history. If the Leafs went on to win a cup in any of those years, then perhaps you would have a point. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 11:41:24
Matt - publishing another article on this website should ALWAYS be accredited, otherwise it is plagiarism. Please edit this to include the author or publishing body, thanks.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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