| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| umteman |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 18:34:27
Tonight Martin Brodeur tied the all time shutout record (103) in a 3 - 0 win over the Sabers, and will almost certainly have that record to himself before the season is done. Last year it was wins, now shutouts. Just where do you think Brodeur ranks among all time goalies? Do you think it is time to talk of him as #1 all time?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
| 22 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest2622 |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 10:41:44
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Beans15[/i]
[br]With all due respect to all members, I think few on here remember 93, which was the 2nd Cup that Roy won on his own let alone 86. I was only 8 years old and barely remember Roy live during that series. Fortunately, I have a couple of copies of games from the 86 playes.
Simply put, there has NEVER been a exhibition of goaltending as happened in 86 in my life time. Maybe ever.
Talk all you want about Broduer's numbers, and taking nothing away from him. However, Roy's got more Conn Smythe's than any other player. How many times was Brodeur the best player on his playoff team???
How many????
If I am building a franchise from the ground up and have by choice between an 18yr old Roy and an 18yr old Broduer, I take Brodeur. I will win some Cups and lots of regular season success. I'll be good for a really really long time.
However, if I am going into game 7 for the Cup today, I take Roy 6 ways to Sunday.
Actually, I remember the '93 series like it was yesterday. Roy was absolutely lights out, 10 OT wins in a row that year, another record that won't be broken anytime soon.
While Brodeur may very well be the greatest of all time based on numbers, Roy IS the best money goaltender that lived. Someone said that Brodeur was the only reason that the Devils won anything, well thats just plain wrong. You don't think of his Niedermayer, Stevens, etc had anything to do with it? Of couse they did. And some coach named Lemaire and his trap, they didn't have anything to do with it? Nonsense.
Brodeur has always had extremely solid teams in front of him, don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for him. But, as a Habs fan, I watched Roy singlehandedly hold the fort while he was getting bombed for his team until they could squeak one in.
Mostof his seasons in Montreal, the overall talent didn't hold a candle to what they had in Jersey. |
| Guest0905 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 13:28:52
Hi 9818 here... and absolutely not, that's all me. Though I don't doubt someone has said something similar in the past, the numbers are not that far fetched, actually I may be too conservative the way he's going. The rest is just straight math.
The average wins should actually be 43.3 I think over 15 years.
43.3 wins over 15 years, 36.1 wins over 18 years, or a 32.5 win average over 20 years. Ridiculous pace to maintain.... |
| Guest8332 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 12:50:19
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Guest9818[/i]
A reasonable scenario:
Currently Marty is at 575 wins, 103 shutouts, if he finishes this year with around 40 wins and 6 shutouts he'll be at 597, 107 respectively. 2 more decent years say 35 wins 4 SO, 27 wins 2 SO, and he'd finish his career with 659W, 113SO.
For a goalie to attain 650 wins and 110SO, assuming they have 15 good years as a starter they'd have to average 43 wins and 7.3 SO a season. That's going strong from 23 to 38... Brodeur's numbers may stand the test of time.
I remember seeing this somewhere before. Perhaps another sports site. Please tell me you didn't pull a Brentrock. |
| OvertimeMark11 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 11:08:43
Congrats to him.. It is quite an achievement. found a clip of him talking about it here: http://www.msg.com/devils/devils-postgame.html |
| Guest9836 |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 07:37:25
A decent comparison among some of the NHL's greatest goalies of all time:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=303249
The debate will go on... |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 02:33:52
quote:
[i]Originally posted by umteman[/i]
[br]Well it is now official. Tonight Marty passed Terry Sawchuk with his 104th shutout, and now holds wins, minutes, games, and shutouts for a goalie.
Strange that although I live in Pennsylvania the game available in my area was Leafs vs. Sabres rather than this one. Anyone know the extent of Staal's facial injury? I guess either the puck or a stick caught him square on the nose?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Can't be that bad, they slapped a full face sheild on him and he came back to finish the game.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 12/21/2009 : 21:16:44
quote:
[i]Originally posted by umteman[/i]
[br]Well it is now official. Tonight Marty passed Terry Sawchuk with his 104th shutout, and now holds wins, minutes, games, and shutouts for a goalie.
Strange that although I live in Pennsylvania the game available in my area was Leafs vs. Sabres rather than this one. Anyone know the extent of Staal's facial injury? I guess either the puck or a stick caught him square on the nose?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
I don't know the extent of the injury but I saw the highlight of it and he rushed off the ice pretty quick so I'd say it was fairly serious, broken cheekbone maybe but I haven't heard for sure. |
| umteman |
Posted - 12/21/2009 : 20:09:48
Well it is now official. Tonight Marty passed Terry Sawchuk with his 104th shutout, and now holds wins, minutes, games, and shutouts for a goalie.
Strange that although I live in Pennsylvania the game available in my area was Leafs vs. Sabres rather than this one. Anyone know the extent of Staal's facial injury? I guess either the puck or a stick caught him square on the nose?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 23:54:44
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6336
Broduer ws always the best player on his team. He was the reason the Devils won any cups.
Anyone remember the finals with Brodeur vs Giguerre? Without a doubt the best series of goaltending I have ever seen.
Gotta say, and yeah, maybe i'm a little biased, but the 94 cup final 7 game series with Kirk Maclean and Mike Richter is right up there with ANY other series i've witnessed. Maclean did everything possible to give the Canucks a chance at winning the cup. I've heard many hockey people call it the best goaltending in a series in the history of the NHL! Maclean, being that he was an average goalie for most of his career, doesn't get remembered like the Roy's and Brodeurs (and for good reason), but that one spring, he was on an incredible ride! |
| Guest6336 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 23:44:06
Broduer ws always the best player on his team. He was the reason the Devils won any cups.
Anyone remember the finals with Brodeur vs Giguerre? Without a doubt the best series of goaltending I have ever seen. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 16:44:57
With all due respect to all members, I think few on here remember 93, which was the 2nd Cup that Roy won on his own let alone 86. I was only 8 years old and barely remember Roy live during that series. Fortunately, I have a couple of copies of games from the 86 playes.
Simply put, there has NEVER been a exhibition of goaltending as happened in 86 in my life time. Maybe ever.
Talk all you want about Broduer's numbers, and taking nothing away from him. However, Roy's got more Conn Smythe's than any other player. How many times was Brodeur the best player on his playoff team???
How many????
If I am building a franchise from the ground up and have by choice between an 18yr old Roy and an 18yr old Broduer, I take Brodeur. I will win some Cups and lots of regular season success. I'll be good for a really really long time.
However, if I am going into game 7 for the Cup today, I take Roy 6 ways to Sunday. |
| Guest4050 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 15:53:50
marty is by far the best. be thankful he's canadian boys..we are gonna take down the olympics |
| Gusteroni |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 14:29:20
[/quote]I was going to say the exact same thing. Roy was great, but Brodeur is #1 in my books. I dont remember did they ever play against each other in the playoffs?
[/quote]
Hard choice...but I think in 3 years or so we will be able to say Brodeur is by far one of the best goalies of all time. I'm still not entirely sure where he ranks though.
Check out this link for a comparison vs Roy:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=413340
2000-01 Stanley Cup Final (Stats from NHL.com)
May 26, 2001: New Jersey 0 at Colorado 5 (Brodeur 25 saves; Roy 25 saves)
May 29, 2001: New Jersey 2 at Colorado 1 (Brodeur 19 saves; Roy 18 saves)
May, 31, 2001: Colorado 3 at New Jersey 1 (Brodeur 18 saves; Roy 21 saves)
June 2, 2001: Colorado 2 at New Jersey 3 (Brodeur 10 saves; Roy 32 saves)
June 4, 2001: New Jersey 4 at Colorado 1 (Brodeur 22 saves; Roy 22 saves)
June 7, 2001: Colorado 4 at New Jersey 0 (Brodeur 14 saves; Roy 24 saves)
June 9, 2001: New Jersey 1 at Colorado 3 (Brodeur 19 saves; Roy 25 saves)
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
| Guest2685 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 14:27:09
I agree with your point 100% Guest9818, however the only thing I would change are the numbers youve stated...I think he will put up the same numbers as this year for the next 4 years...hes about to be the number one goalie for Olympics, which would mean he is at the top of his game, and for him to start his down turn just 2 years later would be tough to believe. All I am sayin is he will pad those stats alot more b4 hes done....and will deffinately go down as the unquestionable #1 goalie of all time. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 12:05:20
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
quote:
Originally posted by KariyaSelanne
quote:
Originally posted by umteman
yeah, Roy had a way of coming up big in pressure situations, but I can't say I have seen Brodeur as a choker. And we can't forget he has also scored a couple goals, including a playoff goal. Not likely (but not impossible) to be duplicated today with the trapezoid.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Last Years playoffs? Eric Staal?
Oh please, 02 Olympics? 94 Cup run? 04 World Cup?
The guy has 4 Vezinas, 3 cups, Gold Medal, World Cup, holds the record both for most shutouts in one playoffs and in playoffs all time. Only goalie to have 3 shutouts in 2 different playoffs series one of those series being the Stanley Cup finals. Only missed the play offs once in his career, but ya because he let in one goal he's not clutch.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
I was going to say the exact same thing. Roy was great, but Brodeur is #1 in my books. I dont remember did they ever play against each other in the playoffs? |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 11:39:11
quote:
Originally posted by umteman
Tonight Martin Brodeur tied the all time shutout record (103) in a 3 - 0 win over the Sabers, and will almost certainly have that record to himself before the season is done. Last year it was wins, now shutouts. Just where do you think Brodeur ranks among all time goalies? Do you think it is time to talk of him as #1 all time?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Absolutely, 100% YES.
No question - no need to defend my opinion, his stats speak for themselves. |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 11:12:02
quote:
Originally posted by KariyaSelanne
quote:
Originally posted by umteman
yeah, Roy had a way of coming up big in pressure situations, but I can't say I have seen Brodeur as a choker. And we can't forget he has also scored a couple goals, including a playoff goal. Not likely (but not impossible) to be duplicated today with the trapezoid.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Last Years playoffs? Eric Staal?
Oh please, 02 Olympics? 94 Cup run? 04 World Cup?
The guy has 4 Vezinas, 3 cups, Gold Medal, World Cup, holds the record both for most shutouts in one playoffs and in playoffs all time. Only goalie to have 3 shutouts in 2 different playoffs series one of those series being the Stanley Cup finals. Only missed the play offs once in his career, but ya because he let in one goal he's not clutch.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
| Guest9818 |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 07:06:36
True enough Slozo. It's not like he's barely just breaking the records and then retiring. He's going to keep going and smash these records. He'll retire with 650+ wins and 110+ shutouts barring injury.
A reasonable scenario:
Currently Marty is at 575 wins, 103 shutouts, if he finishes this year with around 40 wins and 6 shutouts he'll be at 597, 107 respectively. 2 more decent years say 35 wins 4 SO, 27 wins 2 SO, and he'd finish his career with 659W, 113SO.
For a goalie to attain 650 wins and 110SO, assuming they have 15 good years as a starter they'd have to average 43 wins and 7.3 SO a season. That's going strong from 23 to 38... Brodeur's numbers may stand the test of time. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 04:32:01
I basically agree with Beans . . . I consider Brodeur the best goalie all-time due to statistics, but in terms of all-time clutch and probably number two on my list . . . gotta be Roy.
What many don't talk about, is how many more years will Brodeur play to PAD his record stats? He is 35 or 36 I think, even if he just plays a few more years and sails off into the sunrise as a starter . . . that's two, three seasons, with another 50 wins at least, maybe 5 more shutouts at the least?
Brodeur could be building the kind of record as we speak that is comparable to Gretzky's breaking of Gordie Howe's goal record. Not the assist record, mind you. I still think wins and shutouts records are reachable, just as Wayne's goal records are reachable (whereas the assist/point record is unreachable, IMHO).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| KariyaSelanne |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 22:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by umteman
yeah, Roy had a way of coming up big in pressure situations, but I can't say I have seen Brodeur as a choker. And we can't forget he has also scored a couple goals, including a playoff goal. Not likely (but not impossible) to be duplicated today with the trapezoid.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
Last Years playoffs? Eric Staal? |
| umteman |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 19:16:54
yeah, Roy had a way of coming up big in pressure situations, but I can't say I have seen Brodeur as a choker. And we can't forget he has also scored a couple goals, including a playoff goal. Not likely (but not impossible) to be duplicated today with the trapezoid.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 18:37:57
Statitically speaking. Longevity speaking. Being that friggin good for that friggin long, it's really hard to argue that Brodeur definately belongs in the talks of the best of all time.
However, if I am going into a game 7 for the Cup and I can pick any goalie my pick is not Broduer. It's circa 1986 Patrick Roy.
No one was more clutch than that Nutbag. |
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