| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| irvine |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 15:52:34
What do you guys think of this trade?
To Washington:
Jason Chemeria
To Columbus:
Milan Jurcina
Chris Clark
--
It seems to me they have decided it's time for Ovechkin to take the Captaincy. And perhaps time for Alzner (or another young d-man) to take a full-time position on the back end.
Your opinions?
Irvine/prez. |
| 31 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest1757 |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 04:47:52
Ya nice try Beans...
with a huge long term contract like Ovechkin and oh ya, he's the best player in the league who absolutely loves winning and tries his ass off every game and makes other players around him better and want to win as badly as he does, those are all definitely qualities of a leader. Despite him not having a perfect grasp of the english language, he will almost always get across what he needs to say and when he can't, you can be sure he'll let his on-ice do the talking |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 00:04:06
Not really a surprise, other than to Beans, but the Capitals Named Ovechkin Captain before todays game.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 01/02/2010 : 13:02:59
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Screw love, look at history - Clark was tried with Ovechkin for a while, because he was seen as a top 6 prospect. Chimera was reduced to a checking role . . . because he has very little skill. Well, I contend that Clark has quite a bit of skill, more than Chimera will ever have.
Slozo, your facts are very wrong here bud. First off, when he arrived in Washington he was not considered a top six prospect -- he already had five years of NHL experience! ( and was already 29 years old). He is currently 33, about to turn 34 in March, so screw the bright future crap. Chimera is younger by three years.
Do you know why he had 50 combined goals from 05-07? Because the choice was between Chris Clark to play with Ovechkin or the likes of Brian Wlilsie, Matt Bradley or Matt Pettinger. The next year he was with Ovechkin again, in which he scored 30 goals.
Chris Clark is a checking forward with the ability to net around 10-15 goals (when healthy) when playing on the third line. Dropping Clark means that the Caps have an additional 0.6 mil to spend next season, which means that at the least they can fill in another roster spot, which is huge for a team struggling to stay under cap next season.
This is by no means an earth-shattering trade, a very side-to-side move for both teams that fills certain needs. But Clark by no means had a bright future, nor was he ever a solid second liner. He was currently on lines with guys like Quinton Laing, ric Fehr and Matt Bradley. Which is their thrd line, meaning he was not a 2nd liner!
He is an aging veteren who was moved for cap purposes, and Washington got back a solid checking third liner. It is not a bad trade, and Clark couldn't have fetched more. He got what was market value.
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| n/a |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 12:13:59
From what I remember Beans, I'd guess for about two years, Clark played maybe 20, 30 games with Ovechkin, and whenever Semin played on the top line, he be on the second (I don't remember him playing with Semin at all, but could just be me). So, some significant time with Ovie, but mostly on his own with third liners (on the second and third lines, if you get my drift).
They had hoped he would be a first liner with Ovie, but it didn't pan out that way.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 11:45:33
Hey Slozo, when Clark had his 54 point season, who were hit line mates?? DId he play with Ovechkin?? I honestly don't know. It's just curious that he had one season of about 20 points over his average.
I watched a lot of Chimera in Edmonton and he's nothing special. No different than a Glencross or Moreau or Torres, Brodziak, or Pisani or any of the other never ending string of 3rd line players the Oilers have had and dropped.
Oh wait, Moreau is still in Edmonton....
A guy can dream I guess. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 11:03:22
How is disagreeing with Clark's level of play "love"? I am simply stating that Clark is a better talent than Chimera, that he has quite a bit more potential.
Screw love, look at history - Clark was tried with Ovechkin for a while, because he was seen as a top 6 prospect. Chimera was reduced to a checking role . . . because he has very little skill. Well, I contend that Clark has quite a bit of skill, more than Chimera will ever have.
Of your choices to replace any top 6 forward, I copied and pasted part of the notes section from first game with Clark and Jurcina, a 2-1 SO loss to the Isles:
• D Milan Jurcina led the Blue Jackets with four blocked shots and five hits in his debut with the club. He also drew 21 minutes, 31 seconds, third most among defensemen.
• RW Chris Clark made his Blue Jackets debut, skating on a third line with center Sammy Pahlsson and left wing Fredrik Modin. He had 13 minutes, 46 seconds of ice time.'
Knowing Hitchcock's style, he often mixes and matches players, only keeping a group together if they are truly clicking. No one on Columbus is clicking right now, not even Nash really.
Clark was eased into his first game, he'll get chances to play with Nash, as well as the incredible top line talents Umberger, Vermette, and Freddy Modin (note dripping sarcasm)
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 09:58:25
Not certain where the love for Clark is coming from, but who do you think Clark is going to bump for top 6 ice time.
Vermette
Umberger
Pahlsson
Nash
Modin
Huselius
Brassard
It's the reason Chimera was reduced to a checking role. This team is not lacking in depth. Clark is being brought in because when a captain/leader is available and your team is lacking you buy. How often does a captain become available midseason on a 1st place team? Can you say rare. Plus what Columbus is missing is team D this year. Hitchcock is fighting for a job this year.
I still say I could be wrong and the salary part of the equation is the biggest reason for the trade, but I see Chimera meshing well with this Washington team. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 20:19:25
In 6 1/2 mostly full seasons, Chimera has a high of 17 goals (05/06 Columbus), and 36 points the year after that. Columbus has never been a terrible team these past few years, just a middling to OK team.
In 05/06, on a Washington team that finished worse off than Columbus, Clark had 20 goals, and the year afterward (when Washington also finished below Columbus in the standings) Clark had 30 goals. He had a high of 54 points that year after 5 years of slowly increasing stats, but has recently fallen into injury trouble. Still, he is practically a guarantee to get 40 points a year if he plays 70+ games, and he still has the potential to get in the 50-60 range if he finds chemistry and stays healthy.
Chimera could only dream about ever being close to 40 points again.
Has anyone thought about the fact that Clark might even get a chance to play with Nash, giving a big boost in potential totals?
And no, Chimera will never play with Ovechkin or Semin. He has ben brought onto Washington for toughness and defence, period.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 12:24:47
In a month all you are going to realize that Washington is a better team than Columbus. Going from one of the bottom 3 teams in the league to a top 3 team in the league better improve your numbers and visa versa.
I would agree that in a month if Chimera is doing worse and Clark is doing better, that says something. But Chimera should do better around more talent and a better overall team.
I still say they are pretty equal or that Clark is a better player but only marginally. Ultimately, as a hockey money Chimera for cheaper is a smart move. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 11:36:39
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Jason Chimera is absoulte spare parts in NHL standards. There are literally 100 Jason Chimera type players in the NHL today. Slozo is dead right when he says they grow on trees. Clark and Chimera are as interchangeable as they come. They bring nearly the exact sam thing to the table. Bigger, stronger, fasters?? The 2" and 5 lbs difference is insignficant.
Both are maginal 2nd line/solid 3 line day to day NHLers that will give you 30ish points a year, forecheck, and grind.
If one is cheaper than the other, great. But let's not write home to Mom about a steal to either side here. If anything, I see CBJ take this deal as Chimera/Clark is a wash and the Jackets pick up a young blueliner that has some potential and will be an Olympian.
Well relook at this one in a month. I think the results will be clear. I'm figuring Clark to obscurity in Columbus with a definate reduction in stats, Chimera will elevate his stats. Agreed the defenseman will bring something to the table, but he was expendable and I think Chimera's has greater upside for less money. |
| Hugh G. Rection |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 10:54:46
Anyone who doesn't think Ovechkin is getting the 'C' needs to get some fresh air. It is only because AO declined the captaincy back when he was 20 that it wasn't his already. This guy IS the Washington Capitals, pure and simple.
Not saying they aren't a great team without him, but he is the oil in the machine so to speak. The C will look great on him, and maybe the added responsibilty will get him to clean up those dirty aspects of his game that have surfaced recently. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 09:21:17
Thanks for agreeing with me for a second there Beans, but I am going to have to disagree with you specifically about Clark/Chimera being interchangeable.
Hold on, team Canada being announced!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 09:20:41
Beans, in complete agreement here. I don't see Clark ever being more than a 3rd line leader type guy who could possibly see spot duty on the second line. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 08:39:57
Jason Chimera is absoulte spare parts in NHL standards. There are literally 100 Jason Chimera type players in the NHL today. Slozo is dead right when he says they grow on trees. Clark and Chimera are as interchangeable as they come. They bring nearly the exact sam thing to the table. Bigger, stronger, fasters?? The 2" and 5 lbs difference is insignficant.
Both are maginal 2nd line/solid 3 line day to day NHLers that will give you 30ish points a year, forecheck, and grind.
If one is cheaper than the other, great. But let's not write home to Mom about a steal to either side here. If anything, I see CBJ take this deal as Chimera/Clark is a wash and the Jackets pick up a young blueliner that has some potential and will be an Olympian. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 08:13:01
Sorry, Slozo Chimera is not just a spare part. I think his game is better than Clark`s was on all aspects except Leadership. He`s younger, faster, bigger and cheaper. If Clark`s deserves ay second line consideration at all Chimera should be a lock for that position. I`ve liked Chimera as a player since Edmonton and think if given line mates and opportunities Clarks been given, would have developed quite differently. I mean Clark for a time shared playing time on the top line with Ovechkin and played a tonne with Semin, those are 2 line mates of better quality than Chimera has ever had. Comparing career averages between these 2 they look very similar and thats with Chimera filling a 2nd 3rd line and checking role with lessor linemates to what Clark has been provided.
The Defenseman Jurcina, I read, did not recieve a tonne of playing time, due to Washington having too many NHL quality defenseman. I am not really familiar with him so not gonna say much except I read Washington was unlikely to be resigned anyway. He doesnt really hold any trade value except as a throw in or spare part unless depth on defense on your team is lacking |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 05:23:52
Hey - Washington wants to dump salary? Sure, good move then to get rid of a prospect on defence that isn't panning out so far (Jurcina) that they aren't looking to re-sign, and get rid of a slightly overpriced / underachieving captain in Clark. That's all good and fine, those are moves that Washington wanted, and I agree with their perspective and logic.
But where I get lost is what they got in return . . . first, the fact that Washington is quite deep means they could have gone for a more highly touted prospect or a high draft pick. OR, at the very least in my opinion, a second line player.
BECAUSE CLARK WAS A DECENT SECOND LINER!!! AND A CAPTAIN!
Sure, Jurcina is the "throw-in" in this deal . . . but it's a decent throw-in, in my mind. Big defencemen like that don't grow on trees, and who knows, big young d-men often take time to develop (see: Chara). Jurcina is as good as a high second round draft pick to me.
Like I said, I don't get it . . . Washington was dumping salary, and looking for something in return of similar value. OK, you take a bit of a hit because the other team is taking on a higher salary, but - Clark has real upside, looking past his injuries. This guy could be a future solid second liner, and a quality personality, on almost any team. You'd have to think that even when taking a bit of a hit in value coming back, you'd still get AT LEAST a valuable second liner in return, or a very good prospect.
Not a spare part. Sorry Chimera, but that's what you are, a spare part. Non-offensive third liners with a bit of size and grit DO grow on trees in the NHL, and are readily replaceable.
If I were Burke, and got offered Clark and Jurcina, and had to offer something of cheap value back, I'd have put up at least a player like Kulemin and a cheap throw-in (Tlusty?).
Maybe it's just a reflection of the financial times in the NHL (everyone trying to dump salaries now), but I still think Washington could have done better.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| irvine |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 17:29:54
Chimera will certainly have a chance to play in Washington. He's a role player, who plays his role well. He can also chip in offensivley when needed.
Chimera is a nice pick-up for a offensive minded Caps, he'll add some grit they need up front and on the PK, perhaps.
They have dumped some cap, but they can now also insert a young defencemen like Alzner, or another. To a full time position to begin NHL development, before the playoffs come. And have him ready for next season.
And although I do not agree fully with OV getting the 'C', i'm quite sure it will happen.
Irvine/prez. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 15:51:47
Porkchop, reread what you said, missed that point in there somehow, my bad. I agree completely. I too am unsure who that player may be?
Joshua, i also agree with what you said. While it is a salary dump of sorts, i believe that Chimera will get a chance to play in Washington. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 15:37:23
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Alex116,
I did mean that he would be adding a player before or at the trade deadline this year in order to make a run deep into the playoffs, maybe to the cup.
I was just saying that this player is likely scheduled to be UFA at the end of this year and I was trying figure out who fits that description of being worth 4 mil and UFA.
Although, I agree it free's space for trade deadline, Chimera is the right type of player for Washington. He big fast and cheap. I like Chimera, good gritty player and I see his stats go up to the 15-20 goal range and 50 point range under Clarks system. The most important part of this trade is unloading a captain in Clark. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 14:42:51
Alex116,
I did mean that he would be adding a player before or at the trade deadline this year in order to make a run deep into the playoffs, maybe to the cup.
I was just saying that this player is likely scheduled to be UFA at the end of this year and I was trying figure out who fits that description of being worth 4 mil and UFA. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 14:20:21
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
This trade is straight up maneuvering for possibility of adding more for a playoff run.
Mcphee is good GM who has been around awhile. He has his eye on someone and by the room available for the caps it is a player in the 4 mil range.
Question is who is the player that fits that bill, likely a UFA at the end of this year.
I don't think so. I think he knows he's close with this team but may need a piece or two? I could see him adding a guy at the deadline, even if it's a rental. They're that good of a team that if he feels this one guy will put them over the top, he'll jump on it and will have the money to do so. |
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 14:11:24
This trade is straight up maneuvering for possibility of adding more for a playoff run.
Mcphee is good GM who has been around awhile. He has his eye on someone and by the room available for the caps it is a player in the 4 mil range.
Question is who is the player that fits that bill, likely a UFA at the end of this year. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 13:41:03
FWIW
This is a small blurb about the trade from CBSsports.ca
"4. Caps trade popular captain
Chris Clark, who was dealt to the Columbus Blue Jackets on Monday along with defenceman Milan Jurcina in exchange for Jason Chimera, was a popular player in the Washington Capitals dressing room.
But the trade made sense for the Eastern Conference-leading Capitals for a few reasons. Washington had a surplus of defenceman and Jurcina, who is eligible to become an unrestricted defenceman on July 1, wasn’t playing. Chimera gives the Capitals speed and the exchange of players frees up more than $2 million US in salary cap space.
This transaction, coupled with getting rid of veteran Michael Nylander a few weeks ago, allows Capitals general manager George McPhee to add talent at the NHL trade deadline."
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| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 12:46:44
Chimera is $1.875/year through 11/12 however a cap hit of just barely over $1million.
Hurcina was $1.375 this season and a cap hit of around $600,000 but he's 26 meaning a UFA in the off season.
Clark is $2.65 this year, $2.50 next year and $1.433 cap hit.
Washington saves $1 million this season, $450,000 next season, and get a piece for a UFA they more than likely wou;dn't resign.
The deal doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, unless it's a set up move for a bigger picture move. Semin just extended for 1 season for $6 million and Backstrom is RFA next year. They get the $4.5million from Theodore in the off season as we all know he won't resign. They have Varlamov next year for $800,000 and then he's an RFA.
I am thinking that Backstrom will be getting a huge term contract, one of those 10+ year jobs for about $80 million. Maybe his cash they save makes the difference on that deal. |
| n/a |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 08:15:41
Screw who gets the C . . . it's really not that important, IMO. Let's talk about the trade!
Washington gives away Clark . . . a guy who had a bright future and obviously the former captain of the team, so a solid guy in the dressing room. But, last few years has been clouded by injuries, and I guess they don't see the bright upside that was there before.
Washington also gives away Jurcina . . . a young, stay at home defenceman who is very big but a little slow. Potentially bright future for this hulking kid.
And Columbus gives back . . . Jason Chimera. A left winger with some size and speed, but not too much in the ways of offence. He's becomes a bit of a tough guy/gritty player as well.
Am I missing something here? I don't know the salaries involved, but it must be a salary dump . . . to give up on Jurcina AND Clark and to only get back a gritty third-liner is piss-poor return in my opinion.
Anyone know the salaries involved?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest0482 |
Posted - 12/29/2009 : 00:05:52
actually i change my mind i think mike green will get the C |
| Guest4804 |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 20:10:53
Ovechkin should and I believe will be named captain of the team, he is there leader, the team follows him. He has earned the job. |
| umteman |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 18:58:11
Does Ovechkin have enough command of English for the captain role?
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 16:40:59
Personally, I don't give Ovechkin the C. I agree with Morrison or Poti. But those guys don't see jerseys.
Ovechkin, love him if you will, is just not that team kind of guy for the C. I don't see it. |
| Guest0482 |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 16:37:08
great trade to free up cap space sorry to see clark go good captain. I see Brendan Morrison getting C if not him Poti |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 16:29:50
I'm Ovechkin will get the C but I think Green would do just as well as the Captain. Chimera is a solid 3rd/4th line defensive minded forward which is why George Mcphee went out and got him. That and Mcphee free's up $2.13 million in salary to make a last minute addition at or before the trade deadline. |
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