| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 07:05:23
Very simple - where will Dany Heatley be playing in 2010? Let's end the speculation with your expert analysis, vote below, and write in your reasoning!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alex |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 17:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Erhoff, 1st rounder and Laraque for Heatley? Wow that's fair. Maybe I'll call Murray and ask him to buy some Nortel stock. Heck, I could make a pretty penny.
Hey smart guy, how about Josh Gorges???
Seriously, give your head a shake. Erhoff, Gorges, and a 1st rounder is pretty close to Cogliago, Smid, and Penner which Ottawa already said yes to.
Honest mistake.
And I still believe the deal is heavily skewed towards San Jose. Guess that's what happens when a GM gets his hand broadcast on loudspeaker to the whole league. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 13:58:55
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Erhoff, 1st rounder and Laraque for Heatley? Wow that's fair. Maybe I'll call Murray and ask him to buy some Nortel stock. Heck, I could make a pretty penny.
Hey smart guy, how about Josh Gorges???
Seriously, give your head a shake. Erhoff, Gorges, and a 1st rounder is pretty close to Cogliago, Smid, and Penner which Ottawa already said yes to. |
| Axey |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 13:30:34
I hate Cheechoo I hope the Habs do not get him. But man Heatley and Thornton together could be deadly. |
| Alex |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 09:18:14
Erhoff, 1st rounder and Laraque for Heatley? Wow that's fair. Maybe I'll call Murray and ask him to buy some Nortel stock. Heck, I could make a pretty penny. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 06:49:43
Alex, I think you are missing this a little.
Cheechoo goes to Montreal
Erhoff, 1st round pick, and a Montreal Roster player goes to Ottawa
Heatley goes to San Jose.
It will not be a forward. It would be a a Gorges type player or a draft pick.
Cheechoo's production has really slid the past year. He seems to play really well towards the end of the year but does nothing in the first 40ish games(just like Gagner in Edmonton). He's a $3 million cap hit and will cost $7 million over the next 2 season.
I don't think this is a really horrible deal, but I don't see it happening with these teams as all of them are up against the cap. |
| Alex |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 11:19:19
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
New Report I read today in the Edmonton Sun is that Brian Murray claims there is interest out of San Jose again. Apparently Cheechoo, Erhoff and 1st round draft pick is in the deal. But Murray is not interested in Cheechoo, so there will have to be a 3rd team involved. Reportly Montreal but no players were named.
Also heard that one. Beat me to the punch though Beans 
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=286562
Realistically though, what do the Habs have that the Senators want? And what reason do the Habs have to take Cheechoo and Erhoff? One would have to assume that any package from Montreal includes Camalleri. But from the Habs perspective, Camalleri + more for Cheechoo, Erhoff and a first rounder? Not sure that makes sense. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 08:15:59
New Report I read today in the Edmonton Sun is that Brian Murray claims there is interest out of San Jose again. Apparently Cheechoo, Erhoff and 1st round draft pick is in the deal. But Murray is not interested in Cheechoo, so there will have to be a 3rd team involved. Reportly Montreal but no players were named. |
| Guest4803 |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 22:40:06
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher
So Heatley has a no trade clause right? Most teams that he would want to go to would have to be contenders im guessing. Most "contenders" would be right against the cap, making fitting his huge salary a troubling deal. I think everyone wants Heatley, its just the price too pay may be too much for some teams to deal with. And if i team can easily fit him, (Atlanta, Islanders etc), he wouldnt want to play there anyway.
And if thats true about not returning Alfys calls, or ditching Spezzas wedding, i lost a lot of respect for the guy. You have been with those guys for 2-3 years, they should be very close to you. Above all, Dany ruined friendships throughout this, not just teammates.
I Promise I didn't give her the STD, I'm not a sharing person.
Ya for some reason i dont think Danny boy will be heading to Atlanta... and as far as ditching his buddies, i dont think he has been seen since he requested his trade probably avoiding spezza wedding so that it wasnt ruined with all the reporters showing up to ask him questions. |
| Thrasher |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 17:58:33
So Heatley has a no trade clause right? Most teams that he would want to go to would have to be contenders im guessing. Most "contenders" would be right against the cap, making fitting his huge salary a troubling deal. I think everyone wants Heatley, its just the price too pay may be too much for some teams to deal with. And if i team can easily fit him, (Atlanta, Islanders etc), he wouldnt want to play there anyway.
And if thats true about not returning Alfys calls, or ditching Spezzas wedding, i lost a lot of respect for the guy. You have been with those guys for 2-3 years, they should be very close to you. Above all, Dany ruined friendships throughout this, not just teammates.
I Promise I didn't give her the STD, I'm not a sharing person. |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 10:25:35
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What GM's (other than Burke) have said they don't want anything to do with Heatley?? I'd love to see the stories reporting this as I don't believe they exist. And if Burke is the poster boy for this, let's remember who it was who traded for Pronger when he demanded out of Edmonton.
I found this past week very interesting in that both Daniel Alfredsson (who has played with Heatley for some time) and Alex Kovalev(who played with Heatley in Russia during the strike) both stated on TSN that they want Heatley back.
Must be a complete garbage team mate for that to happen, hey???
Besides Beans, I don't really care if you believe they exist or not, it doesn't take a huge leap of common sense to understand that something is amiss due to the utter lack of decent deals available for Murray to persue. |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 10:22:50
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What GM's (other than Burke) have said they don't want anything to do with Heatley?? I'd love to see the stories reporting this as I don't believe they exist. And if Burke is the poster boy for this, let's remember who it was who traded for Pronger when he demanded out of Edmonton.
I found this past week very interesting in that both Daniel Alfredsson (who has played with Heatley for some time) and Alex Kovalev(who played with Heatley in Russia during the strike) both stated on TSN that they want Heatley back.
Must be a complete garbage team mate for that to happen, hey???
Beans,
There is Burke and Hextall, and I believe Holmgren. These are the ones 'on the record.' But 'sources' also say that there are a number of GM's who don't want Heatley and his baggage in their dressing room. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 07:11:40
Well, I guess in some people's eyes it would have been classy to go to the wedding and turn a friends wedding into a media circus??? That's being a really good friend isn't it??
Personally, I think Heatley will talk about everything. I know if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't say a thing until I knew for certain where I was playing next year. Why add fuel to a fire???
And realistically, as I said in my last post, it's to a point where it doesn't matter what he does. He could do the any of the things you listed and people will still find a way to make it negative.
I'm not defending his actions per se, I am simply stating that there is no way that people will look at anything he does off the ice as positive until after the season starts and they see what he's going to do on the ice. Rightly or wrongly, he has been painted with such a negative brush, nothing will change that except scoring goals and winning hockey. That takes care of everything. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 04:52:17
So, Beans: you think we're just a bunch of "Negative Nellies" for harping on Heatley's actions? The classy thing to do is not show up at Spezza's wedding?!?
Let's see, what other choices does Heatley have, besides complete silence and hiding away . . .
1. Hold a press conference, where he apologises for the drama that he has himself created. He explains that he did ask for a trade initially, but that he is more than willing to be the team player and play it out for Ottawa until they can find a suitable deal they can both agree on.
2. He can phone or speak to Alfredsson or any number of teammates and explain himself.
3. He can phone/talk to management, and explain why he nixed the Edmonton deal, so that going forward Ottawa knows better what the deal is.
4. He could do a controlled, private interview, to leak "his side" out to the media. In the interview, he could say all the right things about being willing to play for Ottawa, how the deal with Edmonton broke down because of a 'misunderstanding', and how he will play hard for anyone, he just loves hockey, blah blah blah.
5. Through Heatley's direction, his agent could make a press release explaining his side of the story, with an apology to his fans and all that good stuff, and a statement to the effect that he is ready to play for Ottawa.
Some of these choices take some testicular fortitude, others are a bit more cowardly; but they all, at the very least, are ten times classier than a continued stonewalling silence that he has chosen.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/26/2009 : 15:14:54
It's interesting. Heatley has no been seen by the media in literally months. There is definately speculation that he would be at Spezza's wedding. Enough to have the media report that Heatley wasn't going.
So, the classy thing for Heatley to do is to not show up to the wedding so that Spezza's big day doesn't turn into a Circus and some how people turn that into a negative on Heatley. Seriously, until the guy gets back on the ice and does what he does best, NOTHING he does will be viewed as positive.
I wonder what people would say about Heatley is he was to score the winning goal for Canada for the Goal Medal?
|
| hanley6 |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 16:52:37
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
But Beans, Alfredsson always says the right things . . . he did also mention that his calls have not been returned by Heatley. And, now Heatley has pulled out of appearing at Spezza's wedding . . . which of course is getting lots of media spin about his concern for taking away from his big day (as if there would be reporters in the wedding, lol).
I am thinking more and more that Dany Heatley will not play for the Sens, and will get his trade elsewhere after a very short holdout. He is giving every indication that he will not cooperate in the slightest until he gets his way.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Heatley needs to get a life, He is the idiot that signed the contract and for the amount that he's getting paid he should be happy even if it is Ottawa... What team is going to want a guy who signs multiple year contracts for huge $$$, and the decide to back out of them while still under contract... Ottawa tried to make a deal with Edmonton is was going through, Heatley backed out of "I don't wanna play for Edmonton" Make up your mind Heatley you want out of Ottawa or what???, that was your ticket out... You signed the contract, now play for your team and like it
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/25/2009 : 10:03:42
But Beans, Alfredsson always says the right things . . . he did also mention that his calls have not been returned by Heatley. And, now Heatley has pulled out of appearing at Spezza's wedding . . . which of course is getting lots of media spin about his concern for taking away from his big day (as if there would be reporters in the wedding, lol).
I am thinking more and more that Dany Heatley will not play for the Sens, and will get his trade elsewhere after a very short holdout. He is giving every indication that he will not cooperate in the slightest until he gets his way.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest9235 |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 16:33:43
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
quote:
Originally posted by Kirby
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
You're implying that the Sens wanted to pay out that 4 million. I guarantee you that if he wasn't going to be on the roster, they didn't want to pay. There was still another month to go. Now he has the Olympics to consider. If he wants in, he has to play. I said this at the outset of this whole debacle. He'll play for the Sens up to the trade deadline. Then things will get interesting.
I STILL don't see it as being that easy. There are SOOO many variables at play. It isn't just contact in contract out. If only it were that simple. The GM's have to agree on that talent. They both have to agree that they are getting value. Heaven forbid they get into considering potential.
This is one of the main reasons they only got ONE deal they felt was reasonable. Spin it however you want, there is a serious lack of serious offers out there. The Rangers may have taken Heatley over Gaborik, but they just had to go out and sign Gaborik and not send anything back. That is very attractive to GM's.
For what Gaborik was signed for, I think he was only Attractive to Sather. Im sure most teams wouldve been willing to take his contract on for his talent. And its not like its without its rewards with the Oilers deal. They wouldve gotten one of the best pure goalscorers in the league, and dumped one of the laziest players. I find it hard to beleive that no other team couldnt beat that deal within a month.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky
Kirby, I'm not sure you gotwhat I was saying. I am only saying that UFA's are more attractive because you can get the UFA PLUS keep ALL of your assets. Don't you think that if a better deal had come along, we would have heard about it? Don't you think Murray would have jumped on it? Of course he would have. What is worse is that there are a number of GM's who have basically stated that they wouldn't touch Heatley with a ten foot pole.
I know if there was a better deal, we wouldve heard about it. I was saying that it shouldnt be that hard to top SMid, Cogliano, and Penner for a guy like Heatley |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 11:52:20
What GM's (other than Burke) have said they don't want anything to do with Heatley?? I'd love to see the stories reporting this as I don't believe they exist. And if Burke is the poster boy for this, let's remember who it was who traded for Pronger when he demanded out of Edmonton.
I found this past week very interesting in that both Daniel Alfredsson (who has played with Heatley for some time) and Alex Kovalev(who played with Heatley in Russia during the strike) both stated on TSN that they want Heatley back.
Must be a complete garbage team mate for that to happen, hey??? |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/24/2009 : 09:55:33
quote:
Originally posted by Kirby
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
You're implying that the Sens wanted to pay out that 4 million. I guarantee you that if he wasn't going to be on the roster, they didn't want to pay. There was still another month to go. Now he has the Olympics to consider. If he wants in, he has to play. I said this at the outset of this whole debacle. He'll play for the Sens up to the trade deadline. Then things will get interesting.
I STILL don't see it as being that easy. There are SOOO many variables at play. It isn't just contact in contract out. If only it were that simple. The GM's have to agree on that talent. They both have to agree that they are getting value. Heaven forbid they get into considering potential.
This is one of the main reasons they only got ONE deal they felt was reasonable. Spin it however you want, there is a serious lack of serious offers out there. The Rangers may have taken Heatley over Gaborik, but they just had to go out and sign Gaborik and not send anything back. That is very attractive to GM's.
For what Gaborik was signed for, I think he was only Attractive to Sather. Im sure most teams wouldve been willing to take his contract on for his talent. And its not like its without its rewards with the Oilers deal. They wouldve gotten one of the best pure goalscorers in the league, and dumped one of the laziest players. I find it hard to beleive that no other team couldnt beat that deal within a month.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky
Kirby, I'm not sure you gotwhat I was saying. I am only saying that UFA's are more attractive because you can get the UFA PLUS keep ALL of your assets. Don't you think that if a better deal had come along, we would have heard about it? Don't you think Murray would have jumped on it? Of course he would have. What is worse is that there are a number of GM's who have basically stated that they wouldn't touch Heatley with a ten foot pole. |
| Kirby |
Posted - 07/23/2009 : 01:17:07
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
You're implying that the Sens wanted to pay out that 4 million. I guarantee you that if he wasn't going to be on the roster, they didn't want to pay. There was still another month to go. Now he has the Olympics to consider. If he wants in, he has to play. I said this at the outset of this whole debacle. He'll play for the Sens up to the trade deadline. Then things will get interesting.
I STILL don't see it as being that easy. There are SOOO many variables at play. It isn't just contact in contract out. If only it were that simple. The GM's have to agree on that talent. They both have to agree that they are getting value. Heaven forbid they get into considering potential.
This is one of the main reasons they only got ONE deal they felt was reasonable. Spin it however you want, there is a serious lack of serious offers out there. The Rangers may have taken Heatley over Gaborik, but they just had to go out and sign Gaborik and not send anything back. That is very attractive to GM's.
For what Gaborik was signed for, I think he was only Attractive to Sather. Im sure most teams wouldve been willing to take his contract on for his talent. And its not like its without its rewards with the Oilers deal. They wouldve gotten one of the best pure goalscorers in the league, and dumped one of the laziest players. I find it hard to beleive that no other team couldnt beat that deal within a month.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 12:53:01
You're implying that the Sens wanted to pay out that 4 million. I guarantee you that if he wasn't going to be on the roster, they didn't want to pay. There was still another month to go. Now he has the Olympics to consider. If he wants in, he has to play. I said this at the outset of this whole debacle. He'll play for the Sens up to the trade deadline. Then things will get interesting.
I STILL don't see it as being that easy. There are SOOO many variables at play. It isn't just contact in contract out. If only it were that simple. The GM's have to agree on that talent. They both have to agree that they are getting value. Heaven forbid they get into considering potential.
This is one of the main reasons they only got ONE deal they felt was reasonable. Spin it however you want, there is a serious lack of serious offers out there. The Rangers may have taken Heatley over Gaborik, but they just had to go out and sign Gaborik and not send anything back. That is very attractive to GM's. |
| Kirby |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 17:17:28
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
You guys crack me up. If Heatley doesn't get moved he'll have a spot firmly planted on the first line regardless of what's happened thus far. Not only that but he'll bounce back from his "off" year people will forget about the off season and he'll become a very very marketable commodity come trade deadline at which time a team will actually offer above market value (draft picks and can't miss prospects) for the chance to have Heatley in the line up come play-offs.
Say what you will but he's still an elite player who gives his all while on the ice. You can come play for team MSC any damn time you please.
Very, very well said MSC. There is no way in hell a 40 goal scorer and potential 50 goal scorer in on the 4th line. If that happens, Murray, Closton, and the rest will be in the line up at the Soup Kitchen. Not because it's Heatley. Because putting a 40 goal scorer on the 4th line does nothing to help a team win hockey games.
All of this is being said about Heatley negatively. Here's the bottom line. Where ever he goes, performance covers everything. For example, if he comes to Edmonton, scores 45 goals and 90+ points and Edmonton goes to the 2nd round or further, you will not here a single comment negative about him.
And I still love that there is nothing but negative press going his way when he has not made a single comment about anything in 2 months.
Funny. I'm still pulling for him to be an Oiler.
Yoiu guys all seem to think its easy fitting a $7.5M contract into a cap. When a good chunk of the teams are up against the cap, that makes it very difficult. Further, do you believe the Sens wanted to pay that $4M bonus? Of course not and that was Heatley's leverage. Quite a bit I would say. If he kept his mouth shut, he wouldn't be on the team today. The other thing at play here was the market. You say teams would have taken Heatley over Gaborik etc. But the bottom line os you could go sign those guys w/o sending anything the other way.
In a trade for Heatley, odds are you would be giving up a decent amount of capspace to get him. Ottawa wants a top 6 forward, a 3-4 dman and a prospect or 1st round pick. The top six would most likely be 3.5 mil+. Plus the dman would probably be at least 2 mil+. Unless the team trading for Heatley dealt alot of good prospects, they would give up a decent amount of capspace. I guarantee that the rangers would choose Heatley over Gaborik. Much less risk of injury, for less money I believe. Also, Murray did virtually nothing, so Heatley may have had to bring it into the spotlight to get his request.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 11:08:22
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
You guys crack me up. If Heatley doesn't get moved he'll have a spot firmly planted on the first line regardless of what's happened thus far. Not only that but he'll bounce back from his "off" year people will forget about the off season and he'll become a very very marketable commodity come trade deadline at which time a team will actually offer above market value (draft picks and can't miss prospects) for the chance to have Heatley in the line up come play-offs.
Say what you will but he's still an elite player who gives his all while on the ice. You can come play for team MSC any damn time you please.
Very, very well said MSC. There is no way in hell a 40 goal scorer and potential 50 goal scorer in on the 4th line. If that happens, Murray, Closton, and the rest will be in the line up at the Soup Kitchen. Not because it's Heatley. Because putting a 40 goal scorer on the 4th line does nothing to help a team win hockey games.
All of this is being said about Heatley negatively. Here's the bottom line. Where ever he goes, performance covers everything. For example, if he comes to Edmonton, scores 45 goals and 90+ points and Edmonton goes to the 2nd round or further, you will not here a single comment negative about him.
And I still love that there is nothing but negative press going his way when he has not made a single comment about anything in 2 months.
Funny. I'm still pulling for him to be an Oiler.
Yoiu guys all seem to think its easy fitting a $7.5M contract into a cap. When a good chunk of the teams are up against the cap, that makes it very difficult. Further, do you believe the Sens wanted to pay that $4M bonus? Of course not and that was Heatley's leverage. Quite a bit I would say. If he kept his mouth shut, he wouldn't be on the team today. The other thing at play here was the market. You say teams would have taken Heatley over Gaborik etc. But the bottom line os you could go sign those guys w/o sending anything the other way. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 13:48:52
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
You guys crack me up. If Heatley doesn't get moved he'll have a spot firmly planted on the first line regardless of what's happened thus far. Not only that but he'll bounce back from his "off" year people will forget about the off season and he'll become a very very marketable commodity come trade deadline at which time a team will actually offer above market value (draft picks and can't miss prospects) for the chance to have Heatley in the line up come play-offs.
Say what you will but he's still an elite player who gives his all while on the ice. You can come play for team MSC any damn time you please.
Very, very well said MSC. There is no way in hell a 40 goal scorer and potential 50 goal scorer in on the 4th line. If that happens, Murray, Closton, and the rest will be in the line up at the Soup Kitchen. Not because it's Heatley. Because putting a 40 goal scorer on the 4th line does nothing to help a team win hockey games.
All of this is being said about Heatley negatively. Here's the bottom line. Where ever he goes, performance covers everything. For example, if he comes to Edmonton, scores 45 goals and 90+ points and Edmonton goes to the 2nd round or further, you will not here a single comment negative about him.
And I still love that there is nothing but negative press going his way when he has not made a single comment about anything in 2 months.
Funny. I'm still pulling for him to be an Oiler. |
| MSC |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 12:26:36
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7093
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
4 weeks isn't alot of time to make a deal?
Could someone tell me how long after the midnight start of free agency did the first signing happen? Remember kids, it was illegal to discuss deals with players prior to midnight.
But for an UFA all you need is to offer cash and terms to the player and let them decide.
In this trade it is especially difficult when you are handcuffed by the fact that there is a substantial cap hit, a no movement clause as well as involving one the top 5 scorer in the NHL in return for a top 6 forward (someone capable of playing on the 1st two lines), a 3-4 pairing defensemen and a prospect or 1st rounder. To get a deal of the magnitude of trading Heatley, you need more than 4 weeks. I'm surprised that Edmonton got a package out so quickly.
Heck, Kovalchuk has been on the trading block (rumours) for at least a year now and still nothing.
Wrong.
Because we are dealing with such an elite player it wouldn't take anytime to put a deal together. Do you really think San Jose would want to see Detroit get him or Pitts would want to see Wash get him? No, I would be suprised if 3/4's of the league didn't make an offer if even to keep a divisional rival from acquiring him. |
| MSC |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 12:21:53
You guys crack me up. If Heatley doesn't get moved he'll have a spot firmly planted on the first line regardless of what's happened thus far. Not only that but he'll bounce back from his "off" year people will forget about the off season and he'll become a very very marketable commodity come trade deadline at which time a team will actually offer above market value (draft picks and can't miss prospects) for the chance to have Heatley in the line up come play-offs.
Say what you will but he's still an elite player who gives his all while on the ice. You can come play for team MSC any damn time you please. |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 11:13:35
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Honeslty, send his a** to the minors. Let him light it up down there, break the record for highest paid AHL player. Done, let him finish is contract down there...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
A player with a one way contract can not be sent to the minors without clearing waivers. That means Ottawa would lose him and get zero in return. And I bet my life that regardless of all this 'two trades' crap, every team in the NHL(with the cap room) would take Heatley for nothing.
Every single one.
Oh yeah, say what they want, Heatley would be welcomed by most GM's with open arms.
As for waivers, there should be loopholes in place for situations like this one. It's ridiculous. We all know, that eventually, if Ottawa does let him go, they'll get way below market value simply because every GM knows he wants out. Murray won't deal for anything but market value, so expect to see big number 15 in the lineup, well, 4th line in Ottawa next year :P
Players like him remind me of the CUPE workers in Toronto right now, don't realize how good they have it lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:55:20
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I give the Ottawa management an A in this deal, Beans, because they did everything they could. Yes, of COURSE they wanted to get it done before July 1st, in everyone's best interest! And they DID try . . . you honestly think that they wouldn't have grabbed even a half decent deal from LA or NY before the deadline? They most certainly would have, and Heatley nixed the deal with Edmonton, so that was a no go as he could invoke his no-trade clause if it was a team he didn't want (despite the spin in the media, that is the only conclusion I can come to - Heatley didn't want Edmonton).
The Kings even came out later saying they weren't too keen on acquiring a guy who has already demanded a trade twice . . . after they got Smyth. So, that speaks volumes. And, the Rangers got Gaborik and got rid of Gomez . . . which also speaks volumes to me.
Two teams who chose players of lesser stature than Heatley (Smyth with less goals and points, Gaborik with a bit less and injury issues) in the end, and left Ottawa with what they claimed was the only deal on the table, which Heatley rejected.
What the heck did you expect Ottawa management to do differently to trade Heatley? You can't just trade him for a bag of pucks . . . he is still a guy who could easily pot in 50 and be a top 5 player any given season.
Ottawa management would have been desperate to trade Heatley before having to pay that 4 million, and the fact that he wasn't suggests to me that there were no serious offers out there to take.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Couple of things.
Firstly, we will never really know everything that happens. There are so many speculated reports. For example, I read a report in the Edmonton Sun around the time when the trade looked to be on that stated that Brian Murray did nothing with the 'trade demand' until Heatley went public. If that is false, then I agree with Slozo 100%. But if that's true, that is a huge mistake. Reason being is that Murray could have looked like the one initiating the trade and teams like LA or NYR would have been none the wiser. Don't think for one second that these NHL GM's are ethical in their actions. If Murray could get more for Heatley by keeping his mouth shut about the trade demands, you damn right he would have. He would have shipped him anywhere Heatley agreed to go and offered enough in a deal.
So really, it's what you believe. I believe that Murray had a Golden Egg in Heatley wanting to move but no one knowing about it. He could have gotten easily market value.
And NY or LA (IMO) would take Heatley over either Gaborik (healthy issues) or Smyth. I mean, Smyth's best NHL goal season is weak compared to Heatley, Heatley's younger, and they make the same money!!
We'll agree to disagree because we seem to beleive different speculated reports. |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:50:58
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
4 weeks isn't alot of time to make a deal?
Could someone tell me how long after the midnight start of free agency did the first signing happen? Remember kids, it was illegal to discuss deals with players prior to midnight.
No, its not. Not a deal of this magnitude in the cap era. Agian, he had a pile of leverage. Now, thanks to the Olypmics, the Sens have the leverage. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:49:41
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Honeslty, send his a** to the minors. Let him light it up down there, break the record for highest paid AHL player. Done, let him finish is contract down there...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
A player with a one way contract can not be sent to the minors without clearing waivers. That means Ottawa would lose him and get zero in return. And I bet my life that regardless of all this 'two trades' crap, every team in the NHL(with the cap room) would take Heatley for nothing.
Every single one. |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:29:25
Honeslty, send his a** to the minors. Let him light it up down there, break the record for highest paid AHL player. Done, let him finish is contract down there...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 10:01:49
Beans... i stand corrected. It's not something i followed that closely but now that you mention it, it's rung a bell in my head! They were in fact comparing the Heatley/Pronger situations but it was as you said, Heatley's the one who went about it in the right manner. Pronger was the one who handcuffed his team. This explains why my hatred for him increased (surprised that was even possible) when the incident occerred. My mistake........ |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 07:45:28
I give the Ottawa management an A in this deal, Beans, because they did everything they could. Yes, of COURSE they wanted to get it done before July 1st, in everyone's best interest! And they DID try . . . you honestly think that they wouldn't have grabbed even a half decent deal from LA or NY before the deadline? They most certainly would have, and Heatley nixed the deal with Edmonton, so that was a no go as he could invoke his no-trade clause if it was a team he didn't want (despite the spin in the media, that is the only conclusion I can come to - Heatley didn't want Edmonton).
The Kings even came out later saying they weren't too keen on acquiring a guy who has already demanded a trade twice . . . after they got Smyth. So, that speaks volumes. And, the Rangers got Gaborik and got rid of Gomez . . . which also speaks volumes to me.
Two teams who chose players of lesser stature than Heatley (Smyth with less goals and points, Gaborik with a bit less and injury issues) in the end, and left Ottawa with what they claimed was the only deal on the table, which Heatley rejected.
What the heck did you expect Ottawa management to do differently to trade Heatley? You can't just trade him for a bag of pucks . . . he is still a guy who could easily pot in 50 and be a top 5 player any given season.
Ottawa management would have been desperate to trade Heatley before having to pay that 4 million, and the fact that he wasn't suggests to me that there were no serious offers out there to take.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 07:31:02
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans....i agree with most of what you said, except for the Pronger bit. From what i've heard (and this is just from radio and internet), Pronger in fact went about it (getting out of Edm) in the most professional way possible. He approached managment discreetly and it was all kept quiet from the media until a deal was done. I don't recall the incident completely and was probably bad mouthing him either way (i can't stand him) but that's what i've heard from the so called "experts"?
On the Heatley front, out here, all the talk on the radio was people saying that if you have a no trade clause (or movement clause) and you request/demand a trade, that right should be waived! I actually kinda agree with that thinking....
Sorry my man, completely inaccurate. Pronger left for vacation as soon as the Oilers lost game 7 against Carolina. Once he was out of the country, his agent took the story to the Edmonton Sun. Kevin Lowe and the rest of the Oilers management found out Pronger didn't want to be an Oiler any longer from the local paper, not Pronger or his agent. After that, he refused to speak to the team or the media and to this day has never officially talked to anyone about that situations.
This is a completely different story. As I said, the Sens had 4 weeks which is a landslide of time. And all of you who are saying it's not enough time are obviously not looking at the facts. The Oilers offer is more than fair and that came together in about 3 days. This includes the knowledge of paying the $4 million bonus.
And it's really funny. When he asked to leave Atlanta, everyone agreed. Everyone said that he would have a very hard time continuing playing in the city due to the situation. Now, a negative light is been brought onto that trade request. Please. That's a complete joke.
And Slozo, as much as I hate to say it, I completely disagree with Ottawa Management getting an A. I give them an F. And it's nothing to do with the trade involving the Oilers. But don't you think that Ottawa would have been way better off having this behind them before July 1st?? They could have been sitting right now with 2-3 players in their system for Heatley and still had the opportunity to go after UFA's. Instead, they have a player that doesn't want to be there and a risk in Kovalev. You have to remember that LA and NY were both very interested until the UFA market opened up.
I wouldn't call that an A. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 07:25:55
Side note on the comment about Kovalchuk:
Half-hearted trolling for an awesome deal and having to trade a guy who has requested it are two totally different situations. I have to think that Don Waddell was only trolling for the possibility of getting a Lindros-type deal if someone wanted to overpay by a lot . . . if there is/was any truth to any of the rumours. I really don't see that as comparable to the Heatley situation at all.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 06:08:03
Interesting . . . is 4 weeks enough? I'd probably say yes, even for Heatley's unique situation.
If I'm the GM of a team in the NHL, I have to think exactly as Guest 7093 pointed out so succinctly - consider all factors:
1. bonus of 4 mil
2. Ottawa will ask for a top 6 forward back, and either a very high draft pick back with a prospect, or a decent defenceman and a prospect.
If I'm a GM a month before the trade deadline, wouldn't I know in 5 minutes after hearing of Heatley being available who I have to offer for him? Seriously, at this point I know who I am willing to part with, how much cap space I have, etc - and I just have to work out the details in my head. Then, I decide if I really want that deal, or if it is possible or not, and either forget about it, or make a call to Ottawa. That's it!
But here is the deal . . . Ottawa sort of has to wait for these answers. And, in this tight economy, the 4mil looms like a beast over everything, and right away shuts out more than half the league in terms of whether it is doable or not. And, what needs to be offered, cap hit, etc might shut out more, and some teams may not need or want him. So, now only a handful of teams are left, and after the offers come in, you sift throught them and choose the best one. Or, you proactively phone teams on Heatley's list and tell them what you'd be interested in if they want him, which is what Ottawa management did.
So: plenty of time, I think, but a tight and small market, even for a premier forward of Heatley's calibre. As much as it hurts to say this, I give an A to Ottawa management in this situation.
What I think everyone has underestimated is that every GM now looks at Heatley as a risk, because of the fact that he has now twice asked to be traded. And don't think Heatley's reckless behaviour which resulted in the death of his teammate goes unforgotten as well. Yes, on the ice, nothing bad can be said about him - A+ player, good team player, good effort level, etc. But nobody wants to get burned like Atlanta and now Ottawa are.
As a side note, I was always of the mind that Heatley should have served jail time, like any other normal citizen would have, for the car crash which took Snyder's life. And, I can't say I gave him a full pass for that first trade request - but that's just my opinion.
I don't think anyone gives him a pass on the second trade request. The boy is too big for his own britches, and needs to spend some more time in purgatory . . . welcome to Ottawa's 09/10 season, Dany!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest7093 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 20:35:50
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
4 weeks isn't alot of time to make a deal?
Could someone tell me how long after the midnight start of free agency did the first signing happen? Remember kids, it was illegal to discuss deals with players prior to midnight.
But for an UFA all you need is to offer cash and terms to the player and let them decide.
In this trade it is especially difficult when you are handcuffed by the fact that there is a substantial cap hit, a no movement clause as well as involving one the top 5 scorer in the NHL in return for a top 6 forward (someone capable of playing on the 1st two lines), a 3-4 pairing defensemen and a prospect or 1st rounder. To get a deal of the magnitude of trading Heatley, you need more than 4 weeks. I'm surprised that Edmonton got a package out so quickly.
Heck, Kovalchuk has been on the trading block (rumours) for at least a year now and still nothing. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 20:27:21
Beans....i agree with most of what you said, except for the Pronger bit. From what i've heard (and this is just from radio and internet), Pronger in fact went about it (getting out of Edm) in the most professional way possible. He approached managment discreetly and it was all kept quiet from the media until a deal was done. I don't recall the incident completely and was probably bad mouthing him either way (i can't stand him) but that's what i've heard from the so called "experts"?
On the Heatley front, out here, all the talk on the radio was people saying that if you have a no trade clause (or movement clause) and you request/demand a trade, that right should be waived! I actually kinda agree with that thinking.... |
| MSC |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 14:23:27
4 weeks isn't alot of time to make a deal?
Could someone tell me how long after the midnight start of free agency did the first signing happen? Remember kids, it was illegal to discuss deals with players prior to midnight. |
| Odin |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 13:43:03
Beans, that is what happens when you open your mouth and let your belly rumble. He should not have gone public with this. He had leverage in the form of that $4M bonus that was due on July first. If he didn't go public, he would still be Canada's golden boy.
It is not only in the media, but NHL execs also bad mouthed him. And rightly so. I know you think this is all about the media, but several teams also said they had no interest in a me-first player who has asked twice to be traded. Further, a major issue here is that he hasn't said a word. That looks really bad especially because of the fact that apparently his main beef is with Clouston who did nothing but turn the team around. That reeks of sour grapes. And nobody likes a whiner.
4 weeks is hardly a lot of time to pull off a trade of this magnitude in a cap era when the draft is breathing down your neck. Murray had/has alot on his plate. What made this worse is that Heatley tied the hands of Murray in the UFA market. Hardly a way to go about gaining sympathy for your position. Considering that there was a trade available that Heatley nixed is just a little over the top. As soon as he made that request, that no-trade clause should have been null and void.
I'm not sure where you are getting the info about him being a bad teammate or being a cancer in the room however. I have seen nothing of the sort. Every Sen that I have seen has said that if things don't work out they would have to address a couple of things but would welcome him back.
But if he would have kept his mouth shut, especially because of the leverage of that bonus, he probably wouldn't be a Sen right now. He would be an Oiler right now if he didn't nix the trade. And he DID nix it. He didn't saying "nothing," as the Oilers execs flew to his summer home to convince him to go to Edmonton. He has brought all this BS upon himself.
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