| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| I HATE CROSBY |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 16:53:30
I wonder what would happen if I killed my friend while completely s***-faced speeding a car.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest9586 |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 19:18:05
i am glad it has been pointed out and emphasized that heatley was not intoxicated - this was never a factor in this case and never should have been - and I am glad that we have all pointed out that the original post was completely wrong in saying that he was. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 17:01:57
quote:
Ted Kennedy killed someone in his car while intoxicated. The sad truth is if you're powerful or famous enough you can get away with stuff like that.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me
Your signature is especially poignant considering your post, but for the sake of clarification, the youngsters should know that you are referring to Ted Kennedy, the politician, and not the former Leaf.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 13:28:37
Unbelievable. Literally.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
| MSC |
Posted - 02/09/2008 : 00:02:40
The guy in this story is neither drunk nor rich, he has numerous convictions for varous infractions and walked away $700 poorer and one friend less. I really don't want to get back into this conversation but I think this puts things into perspective to those who think Heatley got special treatment.
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1036561.html
Drunk with no licence fined $700 in crash that killed friend
By BEVERLEY WARE South Shore Bureau
Thu. Feb 7 - 5:09 AM
BRIDGEWATER — Jonathan Savory and David MacDonald dropped by the liquor store in Mahone Bay one morning last spring and, after about three drinks, Mr. Savory got behind the wheel, his friend beside him.
By lunchtime, Mr. MacDonald was dead and Mr. Savory was in hospital.
The $700 fine a judge handed the Blockhouse man Wednesday for drunk driving is "appalling," said Susan MacAskill, Atlantic region manager for Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
"Somebody’s dead and nobody seems to be held responsible. That’s a serious concern for MADD Canada."
Mr. Savory pleaded guilty Wednesday to three charges stemming from the accident.
He was initially charged with impaired driving causing death, impaired driving, taking his common-law wife’s Nissan Pathfinder without her consent and driving while his licence was revoked.
The charge of impaired driving causing death was dropped in Bridgewater provincial court Wednesday morning in exchange for the guilty pleas on the other three charges.
Judge Anne Crawford was also told that Mr. MacDonald was drunk and upset and contributed to the accident.
Although a man was killed, prosecutor Lloyd Tancock said that was not a factor in Mr. Savory’s sentencing.
"He is being sentenced on a straight impaired driving charge," Mr. Tancock said.
He told the court Mr. Savory was quite impaired, should not have been behind the wheel and had been warned many times not to take the vehicle.
Judge Crawford fined the 29-year-old $700 for impaired driving, $300 for taking his wife’s vehicle without her permission and $500 for driving while suspended.
She said the drunk driving fine would normally be much higher because Mr. Savory has been convicted twice in recent years of driving while his licence was revoked. But she had to take into account the total amount of the fines she was imposing, she said.
Mr. Tancock told the court Mr. MacDonald had also been drinking the day he died.
Mr. Savory and another passenger said Mr. MacDonald was "very drunk and aggravated," pressing down on Mr. Savory’s right leg as they sped down the road, headed to Middle Cornwall. The SUV went off the road, then veered back onto the road, but Mr. Savory overcorrected and the vehicle left the road again, crashing into bushes and trees.
"The deceased had something to do with the accident as well," Judge Crawford told Mr. Savory, but she said the accident might have been avoided if he hadn’t been drinking before he got behind the wheel.
Mr. Tancock said police were called to the single-vehicle accident on Cornwall Road in Middle Cornwall at 12:40 p.m. on May 10. Mr. MacDonald was dead when they got there, and Mr. Savory was taken to South Shore Regional Hospital for treatment. An RCMP officer described Mr. Savory’s eyes as red and bloodshot and said there were Styrofoam cups and an empty bottle of vodka in the Pathfinder.
A blood test showed Mr. Savory had a blood-alcohol level of between .14 and .16. The legal limit is .08.
Mr. Tancock said Mr. Savory’s wife had told him a number of times not to take her vehicle and that the man’s licence had been suspended in 2001 for driving without insurance. He had also already been convicted in 2002 and 2006 of driving without a licence.
Defence lawyer Tom Feindel also told the court Mr. MacDonald was "quite intoxicated" and "extremely aggressive toward Mr. Savory," pushing down on his leg and pulling on the steering wheel.
Ms. MacAskill said that shouldn’t matter.
A blood test showed Mr. Savory was impaired, and the Criminal Code says the driver is responsible for having care and control of the vehicle, she said.
"When the driver is distracted, it’s up to us to pull over and eliminate the distraction. For the court to say (Mr. MacDonald) was partly responsible for his own death is wrong. The driver is responsible for the care and control of the motor vehicle.
"They’ve totally eliminated that a passenger died in this," she said. "So what’s the message that goes out to the people of the Bridgewater area, or to anyone, from the decision in this courtroom today?"
Four people die and 187 are injured every day in Canada because of impaired driving, making it the No. 1 criminal cause of death in the country, Ms. MacAskill said.
"These are not accidents. They are 100 per cent preventable."
Twenty-five of 79 fatal crashes in Nova Scotia last year involved alcohol. It was the deadliest year on the province’s roads since 1996.
Ms. MacAskill’s father, Donald King, was killed by an impaired driver in Glenholme in 1993. The driver was charged with impaired driving causing death and impaired driving causing bodily harm to Ms. MacAskill’s stepmother.
The driver pleaded guilty to dangerous driving causing death and dangerous driving causing bodily harm and was sentenced to 3 1/2 years in jail. He was released after seven months.
|
| Datsyuk 1 |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 23:47:42
Hey "I hate Crosby" y do u have to be so negative? It's getting annoying. |
| leigh |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 20:50:39
quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailova
Ted Kennedy killed someone in his car while intoxicated. The sad truth is if you're powerful or famous enough you can get away with stuff like that.
Welcome home Mik! Missed ya! |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 17:24:46
OK Beans, there is obviously no question that Heatley's particular sentence was due to his celebrity.
But his lawyer would have found another route had that not been an option. Do you think at that age Heatley wouldn't pay no to throw his life away?
Obviously it helps that the Snyder's did not press charges, and that this was pursued by the state of Georgia. Now this is regardless of status -- they were friends so that's why the Snyder's didn't pursue.
So in conclusion, obviously the sentence he specifically got was based in part on his celebrity. But I feel had it been non pheasable to take that route, another lenient one would have been found
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 17:15:10
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
No listen.
Heatley being a celebrity did not incline the judge towards him. Heatley having money to buy a good lawyer did.
It wasn't his profession and his status, it was his money. Had he been some unheard of millionaire I feel he would have got the same results
Habs get number 25 this year
Alex, you need to read and research a little more before you post this garbage. If you read any of the articles online regarding the sentencing, you will clearly note that the deal hinged on the 150 speeches he agreed to do as part of his probations. That was possible specifically on his celebrity, not his money.
Do you know who T Denny Stanford is?? I would venture to say that most people don't. However, he is a man who made an enormous fortune in credit cards and subprime lending. The man is worth over $2.5 billion dollars and is #117 on the list of the wealthiest Americans.
I would absolutely bet my life that if he was charged with vehicular homicide, his sentence would not include doing speeches on the dangers of speeding. I'm not saying he wouldn't get special treatment, but the public speeking thing would not be part of it. I would think large sums of money would be involved. No one wants to hear a 70 yr old man from South Dakota talk about speeding. However, a 20 year old Hockey Player, people will listen to that!
Ever wonder why no one has talked about or printed anything on the fines Heatley had to pay?? Nope. Because they were minimal. His payment to society is his work in the community. That's something based on money isn't it.
Please, in the future Alex, read all posts clearly before you start talking, because I have made this point already. And do a little more research outside of this site too.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 17:03:12
Guys, stay on topic. Heatley's separated shoulder now has nothing to do with his legal issues from a few years ago.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| irvine |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 13:43:05
quote:
Originally posted by pensfan17
On the topic of Heatley hes out 4-6 weeks with a seperated shoulder.
HAHA
How is someone having a separated shoulder a laughing matter?
Anyways,
This may hurt the sens slightly, but defiatley hurts my pool. :/
Irvine |
| pensfan17 |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 12:06:56
On the topic of Heatley hes out 4-6 weeks with a seperated shoulder.
HAHA |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 08:04:51
quote:
Originally posted by hockster
I know if that was my kid i wouldnt have as much class as the Snyder family.
It would be tough to forgive someone for killing my own son.
Would any of you be able to forgive heatley?
i would have asked the judge if heatly could not go to jail but i get 10 minutes alone with him in a dark alley haha
Pasty |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 07:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
IHC, I dig the stiring of the pot, but let's make sure you got the facts dead on. Heatley was charges with 2nd degree vehicular homicide, driving too fast for the conditions, failure to maintain a lane, and speeding. He was not charged or was there indication that he was intoxicated at the time of the accident. Although he admits to having some drinks, nothing(blood alcohol levels) indicated him being impaired. Rest assured, if he was drunk he would have went to jail. Just like Craig MacTavish in 1985.
Secondly, 2nd Degree Vehicular homicide is defined in Georgia as all vehicular homicides without intent to kill that involve any other violations of the laws governing the operation of motor vehicles. The highest possible punishment was 1 year in prison, $1,000 in fines or both. But, the judge reserves the right to suspend the sentance or administer probation.
Thirdly, if an 18 year old kid is driving too fast and kills his buddy in an accident, and the family asks the judge not to send the kid to jail, the judge would more than likely not. It's not like Heatley was a habitual offender with tons of tickets and citations for speeding or reckless driving or whatever.
And finally, I think the Judge was right in his sentence. The original charges of 1st degree vehicular homicide(a felony and has a 3-15 year sentence) and reckless driving were dropped when Heatley agreed to do 150 speeches on the dangers of speeding.
That is the big difference. Think of it as you will, but the difference between you and Dany Heatley is that people want to hear Dany Heatley talk. Him talking 150 times about his situation is more valuable to society that him spending time in jail.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
hey beans on a personaly note, mind me asking what is your profession,, can i take a stab at lawyer or maybe somewhere in law enforcement somewhere?? haha great break down!
Pasty |
| n/a |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 06:46:27
I'll weigh in quickly here - Heatley made a terrible years ago, and because of his high-priced lawyer and age and previously clean record, AND most importantly - the Snyder family's forgiveness, got off fairly lightly. That being said, I am sure Heatley will never forget that terrible mistake, or his friend Dan.
I was chagrined to read about the inference that alcohol was involved - it was not. I was apalled at some idiots here conflating the Bertuzzi affair with this incident - it's unfair, stupid, and ridiculous.
Let's move on. |
| Guest4466 |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:49:10
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
No no no, God forbid, not at all! 
I am saying that his actions were a wakeup call to the immaturity of all of us at a young age. To get down on guys is not right. They live under constant scrutiny, and it is not our place to comment and relive past events from dark periods in their life.
Habs get number 25 this year
Speak for yourself, not everybody is immature in their early 20s. And what happened with Heatley involved a lot more than immaturity, young age does not automatically=poor judgement. Tlusty was just having fun that adults of any age have, its just that that type of behaviour is usually private with adults. |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:19:21
No listen.
Heatley being a celebrity did not incline the judge towards him. Heatley having money to buy a good lawyer did.
It wasn't his profession and his status, it was his money. Had he been some unheard of millionaire I feel he would have got the same results
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:29:29
Alex, you contridict yourself. You made the point that Heatley's choice and money on a lawyer helped him. Well how in the hell do you think he could do that?? Maybe his profession?? So, you are saying his profession helped him in one post and in your previous post you said his celebrity didn't help him.
Pick a position and defend it. Don't flip flop. That's like being a politician, and no one likes (or believes) politicians.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:12:37
Yeah you guys are right. It would be disgraceful to Dan Snyder. But I just though about Heatley coming back and getting back to back 50 goal seasons after this unfortunate incident and it made me wonder what it would look like to see the whole thing in a production. I don't mean any disrespect to the Snyder's about my recent post I just posted before thinking. A lot of the members do that occasionally. |
| hockster |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:28:39
Bertuzzi moore beat down crime
Heatley speeding Not as big of a crime
i dont no why they would bring this up instead of the bertuzzi incident |
| Mikhailova |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:27:16
quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
I wonder what would happen if I killed my friend while completely s***-faced speeding a car.
Ted Kennedy killed someone in his car while intoxicated. The sad truth is if you're powerful or famous enough you can get away with stuff like that.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:24:47
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year
Ok, let's get a couple of things straight, Bertuzzi punching a guy from behind is a far cry from someone getting in their vehicle at night after it rained and roaring their Ferarri down a winding road at 80 mph. Something like what Bertuzzi did happenes hundreds of time a day outside most any bar in Canada. Bertuzzi was made an example of, Heatley did get some special treatment based off his celebrity.
C'mon, the original charge was 1st degree (felony) vehicular homicide!! That means he would have faced a minimum of 3 years (and a Max of 15) in jail. The reason he didn't is because he agreed to speak 150 times on the dangers of speeding. Do you seriously think for one second that if you or I had the same charge we could do the same thing. Any judge in the world would laugh if you said, "Hey, lower the charge to 2nd degree, give me probation, and I'll do 150 speeches on speeding."
And pease don't put words into my mouth. My first post clearly stated to follow the facts that he was not drunk. That was it. I talked about the charges he was convicted on but also the charges he had dropped. Both charges dropped(1st Degree Vehicular Homicide and Dangerous Driving) carry stiffer penalties.
With all due respect to Heatley, as soon as he made the conscience decision to drive his car 80mph on a wet and winding road, he took the responsibility of his and his passanger's life in his hands. He may not have intended to kill the poor kid, but he is 100% responsible for it. I do believe however, that his celebrity coupled with the Snyder family asking the judge to not send Heatley to jail saved his ass. I think it was the right decision, but that's besides the point. Don't think for one second that his celebrity didn't help. The Snyder's helped more, don't get me wrong. But his celebrity did help him.
And my finally note, your faith in the American Judicial System?? I have only two letters for you:
O.J.
'nough Said.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Beans, regarding the verdict, I believe it was the money Heatley spent on his lawyer, not his personal status, that merited such a merciful outcome.
The same with O.J. Allan Dershowitz is the greatest lawyer the United States has ever been graced the presence of.
Regarding the responsibility, read my last post. Snyder gets in the car, he knew what was happening. They were close, even had he not known, he could have told his buddy to stop.
And no question Heatley was question. Bertuzzi was intent on injury. I see a big difference between two immature kids and a man punching out a kid.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| hockster |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:16:30
ya you really said it
Great points it just aint easy
He also agreed to get in the car and let heatley speed |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:12:41
No, I wouldn't. But listen, I have a feeling the only thing Snyder was doing different was he wasnt drving. When two close buddies get in a car like that at a speed like that, there is a mutual agreement about what they are going to do. Snyder was on board, literally, and unfortunately got the worst end of it. But it could have been the other way around has he driven. The Snyders probably recognize that he was not close to innocence.
That being said, your son dies it ain't easy.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| hockster |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:37:35
I know if that was my kid i wouldnt have as much class as the Snyder family.
It would be tough to forgive someone for killing my own son.
Would any of you be able to forgive heatley? |
| andyhack |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:32:55
I'm half American so I guess I have to do my thing and add some balance here.
Justice in the Canadian Judicial System? Karla Homolka! That's pretty embarrassing guys!
And, we must never forget one very important fact about O.J.:
He got his 2000 yards in 14 games, not 16.
Okay, okay, bad taste, and, yes, we can forget that point (unless I am greatly mistaken, O.J. "forgot" he killed a couple of people after all).
As for this topic, I think IHC has a bit of a point, but find it hard to get too worked up about it because the Snyder family was so forgiving to Dan Heatley. That family has a lot of class and a lot of grace.
|
| Antroman |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:02:19
Justice in the American Law System? Let me add Michael Jackson to your list!!!!! Anymore? |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 09:27:42
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year
Ok, let's get a couple of things straight, Bertuzzi punching a guy from behind is a far cry from someone getting in their vehicle at night after it rained and roaring their Ferarri down a winding road at 80 mph. Something like what Bertuzzi did happenes hundreds of time a day outside most any bar in Canada. Bertuzzi was made an example of, Heatley did get some special treatment based off his celebrity.
C'mon, the original charge was 1st degree (felony) vehicular homicide!! That means he would have faced a minimum of 3 years (and a Max of 15) in jail. The reason he didn't is because he agreed to speak 150 times on the dangers of speeding. Do you seriously think for one second that if you or I had the same charge we could do the same thing. Any judge in the world would laugh if you said, "Hey, lower the charge to 2nd degree, give me probation, and I'll do 150 speeches on speeding."
And pease don't put words into my mouth. My first post clearly stated to follow the facts that he was not drunk. That was it. I talked about the charges he was convicted on but also the charges he had dropped. Both charges dropped(1st Degree Vehicular Homicide and Dangerous Driving) carry stiffer penalties.
With all due respect to Heatley, as soon as he made the conscience decision to drive his car 80mph on a wet and winding road, he took the responsibility of his and his passanger's life in his hands. He may not have intended to kill the poor kid, but he is 100% responsible for it. I do believe however, that his celebrity coupled with the Snyder family asking the judge to not send Heatley to jail saved his ass. I think it was the right decision, but that's besides the point. Don't think for one second that his celebrity didn't help. The Snyder's helped more, don't get me wrong. But his celebrity did help him.
And my finally note, your faith in the American Judicial System?? I have only two letters for you:
O.J.
'nough Said.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| Guest9939 |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 09:10:29
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
You misunderstood me. What I meant was if I was to be drivng recklessly this afternoon, and caused an accident which resulted in a fatality, I could not conceive that five years from now I would be back to living my life the way I am accustomed to. |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 14:30:25
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9944
Paint Train,
I wonder if you would think the same way if one of your relatives were killed.
I completely agree with this. PainTrain your posts are very good, I enjoy reading them. And even here, you are right that public interest is there and money is to be made. But to make a movie... what a disgrace to the Dan Snyder legacy. I'm assuming that just slipped your mind, I say that sincerely 
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Guest9944 |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 14:04:02
Paint Train,
I wonder if you would think the same way if one of your relatives were killed.
|
| Alex |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:56:44
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:44:30
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Come on guys, get it over with. I will say however that Bertuzzi's action was far worse than Heatley's. Not the result, obviously, but still...
Habs get number 25 this year
You have obviously not attended one of Heatly's seminars on the subject if you think that what Bertuzzi did was worse. The point of the judgement handed down on the Heatly affair was intended to promote awareness. This has been lost on you, and likely countless others. Anyway, I agree to some extent with IHC that there is a bias of leniency involved with celebrity, that played a part in the ruling. If you or I had been in Heatly's shoes at the time, I don't think we would expect to be in a situation, financial, or social, anywhere near comparable five years down the road.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:32:38
This is what I thought. It was most likely the police who witnessed it or was on the crime scence bringing the case forward, as obviously, they are supposed to do. Now do you think that the judge would undermine a police man to favour a young hockey palyer? It seems unrealistic to me.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| irvine |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:15:12
He was likely charged by The State of Georgia it self. "ex: The People of Georgia VS Dany Heatley."
Irvine |
| Alex |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 12:55:22
I think we do not give enough credit to the judicial systems. Benas you yourself in your post regarding 'the facts' hit it on the money. What interest does a Southern U.S. judge in protecting a hockey player? I highly doubt he had much of an idea who Heatley was. The law is the law is the law. And Heatley got what he deserved.
By the way, would someone mind telling me on what charges Heatley was brought to court, i.e. who was the plaintiff? The Snyders could not have been, they forgave him did they not?
Habs get number 25 this year |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 08:01:14
Just curious, why would anyone think that Heatley was treated differently than any other Georgia citizen at the time?
Remember the laws in the US are much different than in Canada, in fact the laws vary from state to state, so be careful of where you commit your crime...
Of coarse you know that this means war!
- - Bugs Bunny
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 07:51:10
OK people, agree or disagree with the Topic, but let's keep it away from being personal. IHC has his opinions and he is entitled to them. No one said anything when there were posts about Mark Bell or that Tlusky kid, so why is this one off limits?? No one says, "Respect Steve Moore and his family," if there is a post about Bertuzzi, so how is this any different.
Personally, I think it's a valid question. Worded poorly maybe, but is it not a valid question about the justice system and the treatment that a Pro Hockey player receives compared to a "regular" guy???
Just because you disagree doesn't make something wrong.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:54:48
You know if Heatley keeps putting up these numbers for years to come. His story would make a good movie. Just saying. |
| Guest8815 |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:54:21
Hockster and Alex you guys are having an argument when you agree with each other. |
| hockster |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:53:08
I think Bertuzzi meant for someone to get hurt
Heatley didnt want to hurt Snyder in any way |
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