| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mytor4 |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 02:41:29
well ladies how do you think big joe will do this yr in the playoffs. will he fold as usual or will he actually show up and bring his a game to the playoffs
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mytor4 |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 13:18:54
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
mytor4 - I'm gonna have to give you some credit here for good research, you certainly made your point. Thornton definitely hasn't played up to his superstar status.
I guess we'll see what happens this year, if it's the same old story, or if Joe grabs a series or two by the horns.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
ty but i can't take the credit for it . the research was done by someone else. i just borrowed it. but it was done to prove a point.
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 08:49:31
mytor4 - I'm gonna have to give you some credit here for good research, you certainly made your point. Thornton definitely hasn't played up to his superstar status.
I guess we'll see what happens this year, if it's the same old story, or if Joe grabs a series or two by the horns.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:48:56
quote:
Originally posted by mytor4
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I gotta agree with the Thornton lovers - his playoff performance isn't bad at all, in fact I'd say it's pretty darn close to his regular season performance. Not to make too many excuses, but he was playing hurt in 03/04 for Boston, and got no points in 7 games. Also, his rookie year, he got no points in 6 games. Taking away only those two years, his stats are: 33games - 8goals, 19 assists.
Even for superstars of his calibre, an .818 PPG average in the playoffs is pretty darn good.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
pretty good for him is not near good enough.
stats don't tell the whole story, read on.
Last year's playoffs-
Nashville Series
Game 1- Joe assists on Carle's goal in the 1st to make it 1-0 and then on Michalek's goal to make it 4-2. Game goes to OT Rissmiller scores the game winner. ESPN says 3 stars are Rissmiller, Radulov and Dumont.
Game 2- Thornton pointless. SJ loses 5-2
Game 3- Thornton assists on Michalek's goal to make it 1-1. Sharks win 3-1. 3 stars are Grier, Guerin and Clowe.
Game 4- Thornton assists on Michalek's goal to make it 1-0 and again to make it 3-1. 3 stars are Nabokov, Michalek and Grier.
Game 5- Thornton assists on Marleau's game winner to make it 3-2.
3 stars are Marleau, Guerin and Fiddler.
Joe ends the series with 0 goals and 6 assists in 5 games. Michalek gets 4 goals, Marleau 3. Joe is never named in top 3 stars, but leads team in assists during series.
SERIES 2 Detroit v. SJ
Game 1- Thornton assists on Carle's pp goal making it 1-0. SJ wins 2-0. 3 stars are Nabokov, McLaren, Draper.
Game 2- Thornton gets 2nd assist on Cheecho's goal making it 1-0. Thornton scores to make it 2-0 SJ. SJ loses 3-2. Thornton named 3rd star.
Game 3- Thornton gets the 2nd assist on Clowe's goal in 2nd to make it 1-1. Thornton named 1st star.
Game 4- Thornton assists on Cheechoo's goal to make it 1-0. Wings win 3-2. Thornton not a top 3 star.
Game 5- SJ loses 4-1, Thornton scoreless and a -2.
Game 6- Thornton held scoreless. Wings win 2-0
Thornton finishes playoffs 11 gp, 1 goal 10 assists
I don't think you can say Thornton choked or disappeared. He performed ok and his 10 assists are nothing to scoff at. However, he was outplayed by Dumont in the 1st series and Datsyuk in the 2nd.
I think that's the crux of the criticism of Joe in the playoffs. In the regular season there have been years when you could argue he was the most dominant player in the league. However he hasn't been the most dominant player in any single playoff series.
He was good last year in both, but a true MVP-kinda player should at some point be the most outstanding player in a playoffs or even in a playoffs series. He's still young, that may come, but until he does that I think there will be criticism of him as a regular season point producer who doesn't "win".
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs
i agree 110% with that judgement,,,, a player of his caliber should be stepping it up rather than keeping the same pace but i thought your original post was refering to the false myth of joe being a playoff choke artist,,,,, but i do agree he should be a more clutch performer,,, but we all cant be named mr. chris drury now can we?
Pasty |
| mytor4 |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:29:32
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I gotta agree with the Thornton lovers - his playoff performance isn't bad at all, in fact I'd say it's pretty darn close to his regular season performance. Not to make too many excuses, but he was playing hurt in 03/04 for Boston, and got no points in 7 games. Also, his rookie year, he got no points in 6 games. Taking away only those two years, his stats are: 33games - 8goals, 19 assists.
Even for superstars of his calibre, an .818 PPG average in the playoffs is pretty darn good.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
pretty good for him is not near good enough.
stats don't tell the whole story, read on.
Last year's playoffs-
Nashville Series
Game 1- Joe assists on Carle's goal in the 1st to make it 1-0 and then on Michalek's goal to make it 4-2. Game goes to OT Rissmiller scores the game winner. ESPN says 3 stars are Rissmiller, Radulov and Dumont.
Game 2- Thornton pointless. SJ loses 5-2
Game 3- Thornton assists on Michalek's goal to make it 1-1. Sharks win 3-1. 3 stars are Grier, Guerin and Clowe.
Game 4- Thornton assists on Michalek's goal to make it 1-0 and again to make it 3-1. 3 stars are Nabokov, Michalek and Grier.
Game 5- Thornton assists on Marleau's game winner to make it 3-2.
3 stars are Marleau, Guerin and Fiddler.
Joe ends the series with 0 goals and 6 assists in 5 games. Michalek gets 4 goals, Marleau 3. Joe is never named in top 3 stars, but leads team in assists during series.
SERIES 2 Detroit v. SJ
Game 1- Thornton assists on Carle's pp goal making it 1-0. SJ wins 2-0. 3 stars are Nabokov, McLaren, Draper.
Game 2- Thornton gets 2nd assist on Cheecho's goal making it 1-0. Thornton scores to make it 2-0 SJ. SJ loses 3-2. Thornton named 3rd star.
Game 3- Thornton gets the 2nd assist on Clowe's goal in 2nd to make it 1-1. Thornton named 1st star.
Game 4- Thornton assists on Cheechoo's goal to make it 1-0. Wings win 3-2. Thornton not a top 3 star.
Game 5- SJ loses 4-1, Thornton scoreless and a -2.
Game 6- Thornton held scoreless. Wings win 2-0
Thornton finishes playoffs 11 gp, 1 goal 10 assists
I don't think you can say Thornton choked or disappeared. He performed ok and his 10 assists are nothing to scoff at. However, he was outplayed by Dumont in the 1st series and Datsyuk in the 2nd.
I think that's the crux of the criticism of Joe in the playoffs. In the regular season there have been years when you could argue he was the most dominant player in the league. However he hasn't been the most dominant player in any single playoff series.
He was good last year in both, but a true MVP-kinda player should at some point be the most outstanding player in a playoffs or even in a playoffs series. He's still young, that may come, but until he does that I think there will be criticism of him as a regular season point producer who doesn't "win".
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
| n/a |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 13:48:01
I gotta agree with the Thornton lovers - his playoff performance isn't bad at all, in fact I'd say it's pretty darn close to his regular season performance. Not to make too many excuses, but he was playing hurt in 03/04 for Boston, and got no points in 7 games. Also, his rookie year, he got no points in 6 games. Taking away only those two years, his stats are: 33games - 8goals, 19 assists.
Even for superstars of his calibre, an .818 PPG average in the playoffs is pretty darn good.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| ThorntonisTHEMAN |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 12:58:36
Not stepping up your game and choking are two different things. Sure, he doesn't score the big goal but you know what? He isn't a goal scorer! He is a playmaker!
Last year's playoffs: 11 points in 11 games
2005-2006 playoffs: 9 points in 11 games
And when you consider that his go-to guy that he is supposed to be passing to is Cheechoo, those are pretty decent numbers. In fact, if my math is serving me correctly, it looks to me like he was averagine a point a game last year's playoffs. That is what the great Sidney Crosby was averaging too!
Now, with that being said, I think he will step up his game even more this year partly due to the fact that he has a lot more confidence in the team, especially with the addition of Brian Campbell, and he doesn't have to feel like he has to do everything himself.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
| mytor4 |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 12:30:27
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by mytor4
well ladies how do you think big joe will do this yr in the playoffs. will he fold as usual or will he actually show up and bring his a game to the playoffs
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs
57 career playoff games,,,, 40 career playoff points?? i dont see the myth of his choking in the playoffs,, dont forget he was playing hurt in 03 against the habs,,, and tha was 7 games right there..
Pasty
well considering what he done during the regular season and then you compare what he done during the playoffs i would call it not very good . the truth of the matter joe has never stepped up his game during the playoffs. he's never even brought he's a-game to the playoffs so if thats not chocking i don't know what is than.
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 10:31:18
quote:
Originally posted by mytor4
well ladies how do you think big joe will do this yr in the playoffs. will he fold as usual or will he actually show up and bring his a game to the playoffs
57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs
57 career playoff games,,,, 40 career playoff points?? i dont see the myth of his choking in the playoffs,, dont forget he was playing hurt in 03 against the habs,,, and tha was 7 games right there..
Pasty |
| ThorntonisTHEMAN |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 06:49:41
This is going to be Joey's year! This is the year he turns it up and the Sharks will go all the way!. The confidence that they are playing with right now will take them a long way!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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