| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest9606 |
Posted - 12/15/2013 : 19:59:59
Who do you guys think is the most over-rated. NHL player |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/26/2013 : 15:19:42
does anyone still consider phaneuf an elite defenseman anymore? maybe he was overrated a few years ago but over the last few years he is more mediocre and his so so is kind of expected. lets just hope the leafs don't re-sign him to anything over 4 mil....then he jumps right back to the overrated/paid category. |
| Guest6165 |
Posted - 12/26/2013 : 11:30:31
No one has mentioned Dion Phaneuf! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!! |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/24/2013 : 12:30:59
The Oiler definitely gave up on Horcoff and Smyth a few years ago. When the New stars got drafted the filled up most of the Top 6 leaving Horcoff on the 3rd sometimes 4th line, yet during the most important points of the game he was the faceoff guy. Smyth rotated from the top 6 to the bottom 6 and when reunited on the top line with Horcoff for long stretches due to injuries, both had elevated stats that should have justified Oiler management and coaching to maintain them in the top 6 mix. Inexplicably both were sent back to bottom 6 minutes and the team struggled to finish the season 2-3 seasons in a row. All you gotta due is look at Edmonton's win/loss record with Horcoff in the Lineup and its record when he was not due to injury. He was very important to the Oilers. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/24/2013 : 12:25:08
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4088
I believe when macatavish took over he publicly stated he was gonna trade hemsky and smyth before the seasom, but then wasn't able to
I don't want to say "you're wrong", but I question the validity of this. It's extremely rare that a GM would say something like this publicly. I mean, why would he? It certainly doesn't help his chances of getting anything in return and if nothing else, alienates the player(s), unless they've asked for a trade? I don't recall the circumstances when MacT took over so I could be wrong, it just seems very doubtful.
Yah, both statements were true, when MacT took the GM position. It was then made public just prior to opening night that both were in the now plan because anything you could get for either in a trade would not replace what they bring to the rink. I think the last statement was more directed at Hemsky, more than Smyth. To be honest I actually agree, but I think Hemsky would be better elsewhere, like NY or Ottawa, while Smyth is best suited playing out his final years on the one team he used to star on, retiring there and soon. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/24/2013 : 12:18:36
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6018
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I totally agree with this. Might not be all Ferences fault, but he was hyped as the fix to Edmontons defensive faults, by showing the young guys how to do it. Horcoff being missed I also agree with. Team captain and guy the media threw the most shots at, but with him the Oilers record was much better than when he was out of the lineup or since his trade. It wasn't right that his contract became so bad that he had to go, because he was very important for the Oilers. How do you pay a player for things that don't show on the stats sheets and justify it to the media and casual fan.
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
I'd have to say Andrew Ference.
Edmonton was hyping him as a top pairing defenceman and the leader they needed to become a respectable franchise again. Needless to say, he hasn't lived up to the hype.
Edmonton went from allowing 2.79 goals per game in the lockout shortened season to allowing 3.43 goals per game this season!
Obviously some of the blame falls to Dubnyk but this Oilers team was supposed to contend for the playoffs this year and Ference was their biggest accquisition.
I think the Oil were better off with Horcoff as their captain, he wouldn't stand for some of the terrible habits the team has fallen into. Cheating defensively (Hall, Yakupov), complaining about ice time (Yakupov).
In my opinion, Ference benefited from playing in Boston. They played the perfect system for a guy with few offensive abilities to thrive in. Ference is exposed in Edmonton where they try to play a more skilled game and he simply isn't skilled enough to do thrive playing this way.
Leadership has little to do with point whoring, and more to do about attitude, unifying qualities, and doing the little things right every time. For those reasons Andrew Ference is the captain.
GAA is not only a deceiving stat, but also a dangerous metric to use to describe a one defensemen's contribution to the backend. The Oil were in a terrible slump during the start of the season. Arguably, the only reason they started winning is do to the compete level and insistence of doing the little things right demonstrated by Ference; furthermore, his grit and toughness started fuelling his team's confidence and drive to start winning as they can. This became no more apparent than when he stuck up for himself after a cheap pre-puck hit by Stempniak against Calgary. Ference responded in a way that not only asserted justice to the cheap hit thrown by Stempniak, but also fired up his team for a great comeback, which set the stage for further wins down that stretch of games.
He's overpaid, but they all are. In a sense though, his experience and consistency is well worth it, especially compared to Horcoff. Good riddance to Horcoff and his terribly overpriced salary. Ference earns that C every night...find someone else to pick on for this thread.
The only major problem with your argument here is the comment ("Arguably, the only reason they started winning is do to the compete level and insistence of doing the little things right demonstrated by Ference") I am wondering if you have seen some glimpse into the future. As of 3-4 days ago, fans were throwing jerseys on the ice in disgust at the lack of compete level being shown on the ice. To be honest, I am surprise Eakins hasn't thrown his Oilers tie and quit on the team like they have for long stretches this season. Both Ference and Eakins belong in this category. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/24/2013 : 09:06:06
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4088
I believe when macatavish took over he publicly stated he was gonna trade hemsky and smyth before the seasom, but then wasn't able to
I don't want to say "you're wrong", but I question the validity of this. It's extremely rare that a GM would say something like this publicly. I mean, why would he? It certainly doesn't help his chances of getting anything in return and if nothing else, alienates the player(s), unless they've asked for a trade? I don't recall the circumstances when MacT took over so I could be wrong, it just seems very doubtful. |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/24/2013 : 00:57:32
I believe when macatavish took over he publicly stated he was gonna trade hemsky and smyth before the seasom, but then wasn't able to |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 22:02:39
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4088
In regards to horcoff, I found that once the oilers got all the top draft picks they became a team for the future. They totally gave up on the present and guys like horcoff, smyth, hemsky were just forgot about as they weren't part of that future dynasty.
I don't entirely agree with the above quote. The Oilers didn't exactly give up on all of these guys, and in fact still have Smyth and Hemsky last I looked? From what I understand, Hemsky started the season on the 2nd line and has been more of a 3rd liner recently with Smyth. Either way, they're both still there so "giving up" on them isn't exactly accurate. You don't really expect Smyth to contribute to one of the top 2 lines at this point in his career do you? |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 21:55:37
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Mav....Absolutely, I'd expect better from Ference, which is what I think your whole point is. However, the thread is asking for the MOST over-rated player in the NHL, not just a guy who's not performing up to expectations. If it was "player (or FA signing) who's disappointed compared to expectations this season" then I'd agree Ference is right up there. I'm pretty sure this is more along the lines of what you are talking about with Ference. I can't see how you would possibly think he was more over rated than some of the guys who've been mentioned?
Alex, I truly believe Ference is up there for most overrated in the league. I do realize he's a tough sell though and I can't add anything else that would change peoples minds
Fair enough, I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, I just personally don't expect as much out of him perhaps as you and obviously the Oilers had hoped for. I mean, this guy wasn't exactly a top dman in Boston, moreso just a 3rd or 4th, no? Either way, I'm not going to say you're wrong in saying the Oilers were expecting A LOT more from him! |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 19:46:45
In regards to horcoff, I found that once the oilers got all the top draft picks they became a team for the future. They totally gave up on the present and guys like horcoff, smyth, hemsky were just forgot about as they weren't part of that future dynasty. management always talked about bringing in character guys to help support/teach these guys when in reality, they had great character guys (horcoff and smyth) already in the dressing room. those guys have gone to war and they play in the trenches...they aren't highly skilled guys but guys who work their butts off and will sacrifice themselves for the good of the team. The culture around the team became one of gaining experience instead of accountability. It was ok to lose as long as they learned from it. Compare that to young guys like Crosby and toews in their early days, they HATED to lose. Crosby was so paasionate he was often called a whiner. But they never ever used the excuse they were too young and in time they will win. Correct me if im wrong but I think both those guys won the cups while still on entry level contracts. I never got that sense of accountability or urgency or win now at all cost attitude from the oilers players and-or management, and hence why you never see improvement from the oilers year in year out because the culture was its ok to lose. now, all they have is a bunch of premadonna losers. So at this point I think the group of young high draft picks collectively are overrated. Kudos to edmontons PR and marketing guys as every year I seem to buy into the hype of the oilers....until they hit the ice that is!
|
| Maverick9 |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 17:49:09
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Mav....Absolutely, I'd expect better from Ference, which is what I think your whole point is. However, the thread is asking for the MOST over-rated player in the NHL, not just a guy who's not performing up to expectations. If it was "player (or FA signing) who's disappointed compared to expectations this season" then I'd agree Ference is right up there. I'm pretty sure this is more along the lines of what you are talking about with Ference. I can't see how you would possibly think he was more over rated than some of the guys who've been mentioned?
Alex, I truly believe Ference is up there for most overrated in the league. I do realize he's a tough sell though and I can't add anything else that would change peoples minds |
| Guest6018 |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 12:05:20
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
If you don't like GAA then lets go ahead and look at advanced statistics. (also, my key point was made using goal differential, not that it matters now)
http://www.extraskater.com/player/145/andrew-ference
Looking at his advanced stats make me more convinced ference is a middling player.
His fenwick for % is lower than his teams fenwick for % this year, last year, and last years playoffs. Basically, he has always had a weaker fenwick stat then the rest of his teammates.
Same story with the corsi. When he is on the ice, his team gets outshot worse than when he isn't on the ice. His corsi relative % is -1% this season and it was -3.3% last season.
Now addressing the intangibles. Ference is a decent captain. However, Horcoff was a better captain. Like Joshua said, Horcoff was the medias fall guy and somehow his relationship with them worked. The oilers were unified under horcoff, you never saw a new player in the league like yakupov whining about his ice time when horcoff wore the C.
Horcoff may have been terribly overpaid, but when you look at the oilers cap situation, there was no need to trade him from a financial standpoint. Edmonton currently has about $7M in cap space. Horcoffs $5.5M cap hit and $4M salary would have fit in there and still left some cap room to spare.
I guess we can pin that one on MacT though. Maybe one of his biggest mistakes so far?
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/22/2013 : 21:18:09
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
I have to admit, I was disappointed that the Canucks lost out on this guy.
Its not clear that the Canucks lost out at all... perhaps they said no thanks.
I can't recall exactly the details or what was announced, but I though Eakins had said no to Vancouver? Regardless of what happened, at the time I was hoping he'd end up here. Then again, I was no at all on the "hire Torts" side and yet I'm happy with him thus far. Of course, it's still very early.  |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 12/22/2013 : 20:25:31
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
I have to admit, I was disappointed that the Canucks lost out on this guy.
Its not clear that the Canucks lost out at all... perhaps they said no thanks. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/22/2013 : 02:37:16
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4088
how about dallas Eakins the coach as most overrated? if everybody on the team is struggling, the common link is the coach. But that goes back to management....why bring in a rookie coach to coach a bunch of young players? Didn't make sense to me when he was hired and certainly doesn't make sense now that they are s***ting the bed again this year. Time for another high draft pick next year again.
Wow, hadn't thought of Eakins! He def was highly touted around the league. I have to admit, I was disappointed that the Canucks lost out on this guy. Def hasn't worked out just yet in Edmonton. Have to see how good he is going forward! |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/22/2013 : 02:34:37
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
My only issue with Ference being suggested us I don't recall anyone making these claims that are being suggested? Who claimed him as a defensive "savior"? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall that? I do remember some saying he's a good start to improvements on the back end and will help some of the youngsters but a savior?
Eakins had said "Andrew Ference will UNITE us." Not that that proves anything towards him being a savior. But you would expect your brand new captain to be a little bit of a savior, wouldn't you?
Mav....Absolutely, I'd expect better from Ference, which is what I think your whole point is. However, the thread is asking for the MOST over-rated player in the NHL, not just a guy who's not performing up to expectations. If it was "player (or FA signing) who's disappointed compared to expectations this season" then I'd agree Ference is right up there. I'm pretty sure this is more along the lines of what you are talking about with Ference. I can't see how you would possibly think he was more over rated than some of the guys who've been mentioned? |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 22:09:49
don't get me wrong, I actually like ferrence and thought it was a good move. you cant bring in 6 top dmen all at once, you need to start somewhere and he is a more than decent start I guess.
how about dallas Eakins the coach as most overrated? if everybody on the team is struggling, the common link is the coach. But that goes back to management....why bring in a rookie coach to coach a bunch of young players? Didn't make sense to me when he was hired and certainly doesn't make sense now that they are s***ting the bed again this year. Time for another high draft pick next year again. |
| Maverick9 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 20:25:03
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
My only issue with Ference being suggested us I don't recall anyone making these claims that are being suggested? Who claimed him as a defensive "savior"? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall that? I do remember some saying he's a good start to improvements on the back end and will help some of the youngsters but a savior?
Eakins had said "Andrew Ference will UNITE us." Not that that proves anything towards him being a savior. But you would expect your brand new captain to be a little bit of a savior, wouldn't you? |
| Maverick9 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 20:22:00
If you don't like GAA then lets go ahead and look at advanced statistics. (also, my key point was made using goal differential, not that it matters now)
http://www.extraskater.com/player/145/andrew-ference
Looking at his advanced stats make me more convinced ference is a middling player.
His fenwick for % is lower than his teams fenwick for % this year, last year, and last years playoffs. Basically, he has always had a weaker fenwick stat then the rest of his teammates.
Same story with the corsi. When he is on the ice, his team gets outshot worse than when he isn't on the ice. His corsi relative % is -1% this season and it was -3.3% last season.
Now addressing the intangibles. Ference is a decent captain. However, Horcoff was a better captain. Like Joshua said, Horcoff was the medias fall guy and somehow his relationship with them worked. The oilers were unified under horcoff, you never saw a new player in the league like yakupov whining about his ice time when horcoff wore the C.
Horcoff may have been terribly overpaid, but when you look at the oilers cap situation, there was no need to trade him from a financial standpoint. Edmonton currently has about $7M in cap space. Horcoffs $5.5M cap hit and $4M salary would have fit in there and still left some cap room to spare.
I guess we can pin that one on MacT though. Maybe one of his biggest mistakes so far? |
| Guest4995 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 19:59:28
Anyone consider Brad Marchand or P.K Subban? |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 17:23:36
My only issue with Ference being suggested us I don't recall anyone making these claims that are being suggested? Who claimed him as a defensive "savior"? Maybe I missed it but I don't recall that? I do remember some saying he's a good start to improvements on the back end and will help some of the youngsters but a savior? |
| Guest6018 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 14:08:06
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I totally agree with this. Might not be all Ferences fault, but he was hyped as the fix to Edmontons defensive faults, by showing the young guys how to do it. Horcoff being missed I also agree with. Team captain and guy the media threw the most shots at, but with him the Oilers record was much better than when he was out of the lineup or since his trade. It wasn't right that his contract became so bad that he had to go, because he was very important for the Oilers. How do you pay a player for things that don't show on the stats sheets and justify it to the media and casual fan.
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
I'd have to say Andrew Ference.
Edmonton was hyping him as a top pairing defenceman and the leader they needed to become a respectable franchise again. Needless to say, he hasn't lived up to the hype.
Edmonton went from allowing 2.79 goals per game in the lockout shortened season to allowing 3.43 goals per game this season!
Obviously some of the blame falls to Dubnyk but this Oilers team was supposed to contend for the playoffs this year and Ference was their biggest accquisition.
I think the Oil were better off with Horcoff as their captain, he wouldn't stand for some of the terrible habits the team has fallen into. Cheating defensively (Hall, Yakupov), complaining about ice time (Yakupov).
In my opinion, Ference benefited from playing in Boston. They played the perfect system for a guy with few offensive abilities to thrive in. Ference is exposed in Edmonton where they try to play a more skilled game and he simply isn't skilled enough to do thrive playing this way.
Leadership has little to do with point whoring, and more to do about attitude, unifying qualities, and doing the little things right every time. For those reasons Andrew Ference is the captain.
GAA is not only a deceiving stat, but also a dangerous metric to use to describe a one defensemen's contribution to the backend. The Oil were in a terrible slump during the start of the season. Arguably, the only reason they started winning is do to the compete level and insistence of doing the little things right demonstrated by Ference; furthermore, his grit and toughness started fuelling his team's confidence and drive to start winning as they can. This became no more apparent than when he stuck up for himself after a cheap pre-puck hit by Stempniak against Calgary. Ference responded in a way that not only asserted justice to the cheap hit thrown by Stempniak, but also fired up his team for a great comeback, which set the stage for further wins down that stretch of games.
He's overpaid, but they all are. In a sense though, his experience and consistency is well worth it, especially compared to Horcoff. Good riddance to Horcoff and his terribly overpriced salary. Ference earns that C every night...find someone else to pick on for this thread.
|
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 13:43:16
teams like Edmonton always learn the hardway when they pay a second pair dman to be a top pair guy. in boston ferrence hid behind chara, never played those tough minutes against the top offensive guys. if Edmonton thought he would miraculously be as good as chara well then once again a bonehead move by edmontons management |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 12:03:31
I totally agree with this. Might not be all Ferences fault, but he was hyped as the fix to Edmontons defensive faults, by showing the young guys how to do it. Horcoff being missed I also agree with. Team captain and guy the media threw the most shots at, but with him the Oilers record was much better than when he was out of the lineup or since his trade. It wasn't right that his contract became so bad that he had to go, because he was very important for the Oilers. How do you pay a player for things that don't show on the stats sheets and justify it to the media and casual fan.
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick9
I'd have to say Andrew Ference.
Edmonton was hyping him as a top pairing defenceman and the leader they needed to become a respectable franchise again. Needless to say, he hasn't lived up to the hype.
Edmonton went from allowing 2.79 goals per game in the lockout shortened season to allowing 3.43 goals per game this season!
Obviously some of the blame falls to Dubnyk but this Oilers team was supposed to contend for the playoffs this year and Ference was their biggest accquisition.
I think the Oil were better off with Horcoff as their captain, he wouldn't stand for some of the terrible habits the team has fallen into. Cheating defensively (Hall, Yakupov), complaining about ice time (Yakupov).
In my opinion, Ference benefited from playing in Boston. They played the perfect system for a guy with few offensive abilities to thrive in. Ference is exposed in Edmonton where they try to play a more skilled game and he simply isn't skilled enough to do thrive playing this way.
|
| Maverick9 |
Posted - 12/21/2013 : 00:24:02
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4088
maverick 9...how do you figure the oilers would be better off with horcoff as captain....he led the team to multiyear basement finishes as captain...hence why they have such high draft picks in yakupov hall and RNH. To me they couldn't get worse so they sent him packing.
Can we throw oilers management (ie lowe, mactavish, tambellini) as overrated? they don't seem to have a clue how to put a caliber team together.
Just from a quick look at the standings, last year Horcoff's oilers were 12th in the west with a -9 goal differential through 48 games. This year, ference's oilers, with largely the same core group sit last in the west with a -32 (!) goal differential. And thats only through 37 games!
Obviously ference isn't completely to blame for this stat but wasn't he supposed to be part of the solution? Right now he is certainly not helping
If we go by cap hit, there are 3-5 players that I would consider preferable to ference in the same price range.
Ference's cap hit: $3.25 mil
Comparables: Dennis Seidenberg: $3.25
Trevor Daley $3.3
Dan Girardi $3.25 (this is an incredible bargain btw)
Jonny Boychuk $3.366
Marc Methot $3
Jared Cowen $3.1
Jon Ericsson $3.25
Personally, I don't see Ference being as valuable as these guys on the list. I see an older player who has a skill set that traditionally ages poorly. He is by no means a top pair defenceman and would only be top 4 dman on a poor team such as edmonton.
I do agree Oilers management is overrated. Tambellini especially. How do you have so many high draft picks and miss not address your biggest organizational need in a defenceman?
Think of what ryan murray could have done in edmonton? He looks miles ahead of yakupov right now. |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 22:20:15
I like the ovechkin suggestion. Good comparison for those that mentioned datsyuk and toews. They may not get 50 goal or 100 pt seasons like ovechkin may, but at least they carry their teams deep in the playoffs. Ovechkin disappears in the playoffs when refs aren't giving 6-7 power plays per game. for a guy often mentioned as one of the best in the league, he has never even carried his team to the finals, let alone winning. Sounds overrated to me. |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 22:13:31
maverick 9...how do you figure the oilers would be better off with horcoff as captain....he led the team to multiyear basement finishes as captain...hence why they have such high draft picks in yakupov hall and RNH. To me they couldn't get worse so they sent him packing.
Can we throw oilers management (ie lowe, mactavish, tambellini) as overrated? they don't seem to have a clue how to put a caliber team together. |
| Guest0232 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 21:51:40
ovechkin why? sure he can score alot of goals but he cant help a team win way too selfish. |
| Maverick9 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 21:26:21
I'd have to say Andrew Ference.
Edmonton was hyping him as a top pairing defenceman and the leader they needed to become a respectable franchise again. Needless to say, he hasn't lived up to the hype.
Edmonton went from allowing 2.79 goals per game in the lockout shortened season to allowing 3.43 goals per game this season!
Obviously some of the blame falls to Dubnyk but this Oilers team was supposed to contend for the playoffs this year and Ference was their biggest accquisition.
I think the Oil were better off with Horcoff as their captain, he wouldn't stand for some of the terrible habits the team has fallen into. Cheating defensively (Hall, Yakupov), complaining about ice time (Yakupov).
In my opinion, Ference benefited from playing in Boston. They played the perfect system for a guy with few offensive abilities to thrive in. Ference is exposed in Edmonton where they try to play a more skilled game and he simply isn't skilled enough to do thrive playing this way. |
| Guest4088 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 20:49:00
how about rick nash? only one season in his career over 70pts yet considered an elite player.
second choice would be anyone the flyers sign as free agents and overpay (ie lecavalier, briere, bryzgalov, hartnell, streit, etc). You can argue they are overpaid not overrated, but clearly someone rated then high enough to fork out big contracts. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 16:23:34
Joshua, just saw your post on Bryzgalov. By "pedestrian", i simply meant that, like Smith, his numbers were better in Phoenix than elsewhere. IMO, this is the result of playing in Phoenix.
I don't think either guy is a "bad" goalie, and i guess saying their stats are better while playing in a more defensive system is sorta obvious, but i'm trying to make the point that neither of these guys is likely as good as their numbers in Phoenix show.
|
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 15:58:21
Joshua, just wanted to clarify something. I wasn't saying Smith isn't or wasn't a good goalie. I just don't know if he'd find the same success in a less defensive oriented team. I agree, even Bishop would have worse numbers in TBay back in 2011, no doubt.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that i think that if Smith played elsewhere, his numbers would not be as good as they are in Phoenix, nor would he continue to be mentioned in the Olympic talk. Again, this is just me. He could go on to win Gold for Canada and stand on his head and win a cup for Phoenix and prove me wrong, but until then...... |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 15:57:22
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Quick! Very interesting theory re the Kings defense and their system in front of their goalies! I've often said something similar about Mike Smith in Phoenix after how good Bryzgalov was there only to become so pedestrian everywhere else he went! You could be on to something there, and considering Quick may be the US starter in Sochi, i hope you're right! Lol.
Over rated is such a tough thing to judge. I don't even bother thinking of guys like Booth as i don't see him really all that hyped to begin with. Overpaid, sure, but over rated? Not so much.
Gaborik is a good one though as mentioned, the injuries had a huge play on his success or lack there of! Shame this kid couldn't stay healthy.
I also disagree with Bryzgalov being pedestrian every else he has been. Bryzgalov was great enough to warrant a trade (sorry waiver drop, knowing Phoenix was at the top of the waiver pickup pool, a favor to Gretzky) to become a starter in Phoenix and was the best goalie prior to this season, Philly has had. He might have stole headlines for crazy talk, but Philly is that bad defensively no goalie is good there and Edmonton might not be an improvement. Bryzgalov on most teams with some defensive structure, IMO, would be a game changer. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 15:52:43
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Most overrated . . . my pick is Patty Kane.
There, I said it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Like him or hate him, if Patty Kane was on Toronto he would be the best offensive talent Toronto has, even with Kessel, Kadri and Lupul. Don't really agree with this one. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 15:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6377
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Quick! Very interesting theory re the Kings defense and their system in front of their goalies! I've often said something similar about Mike Smith in Phoenix after how good Bryzgalov was there only to become so pedestrian everywhere else he went! You could be on to something there, and considering Quick may be the US starter in Sochi, i hope you're right! Lol.
Over rated is such a tough thing to judge. I don't even bother thinking of guys like Booth as i don't see him really all that hyped to begin with. Overpaid, sure, but over rated? Not so much.
Gaborik is a good one though as mentioned, the injuries had a huge play on his success or lack there of! Shame this kid couldn't stay healthy.
i would agree with Smith he was terrible when he played with Tampa, a team that didnt play shut down hockey
I have to say that like Edmonton and Philly, a goalie playing in Tampa would normally not receive league wide praise, hence Smith poor performance in Tampa. The fact Tampa looks to finally be getting some defensive system in place, Bishop now in net and the recipient of Tampa's improved defensive play, is likely why his name is in the top for goalies. If this was Tampa of 2011, Bishop wouldn't be found near the top 30 regardless of his talent. And this is from a Bishop fan.
To say Smith isn't a good goalie because his stats are elevated while he plays in Phoenix, is a bit of a stretch and further back in Dallas he played his way into a trade as a starter in Tampa. A few years ago when Phoenix made the playoff, 90% on the back of Smith, he was top tier. I don't see him playing in a lessor capacity now, but the team in front of him is more free wheeling. |
| Guest6377 |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 10:57:19
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Quick! Very interesting theory re the Kings defense and their system in front of their goalies! I've often said something similar about Mike Smith in Phoenix after how good Bryzgalov was there only to become so pedestrian everywhere else he went! You could be on to something there, and considering Quick may be the US starter in Sochi, i hope you're right! Lol.
Over rated is such a tough thing to judge. I don't even bother thinking of guys like Booth as i don't see him really all that hyped to begin with. Overpaid, sure, but over rated? Not so much.
Gaborik is a good one though as mentioned, the injuries had a huge play on his success or lack there of! Shame this kid couldn't stay healthy.
i would agree with Smith he was terrible when he played with Tampa, a team that didnt play shut down hockey |
| foolpittier |
Posted - 12/18/2013 : 13:30:30
Evander Kane |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 12/18/2013 : 13:15:41
Quick! Very interesting theory re the Kings defense and their system in front of their goalies! I've often said something similar about Mike Smith in Phoenix after how good Bryzgalov was there only to become so pedestrian everywhere else he went! You could be on to something there, and considering Quick may be the US starter in Sochi, i hope you're right! Lol.
Over rated is such a tough thing to judge. I don't even bother thinking of guys like Booth as i don't see him really all that hyped to begin with. Overpaid, sure, but over rated? Not so much.
Gaborik is a good one though as mentioned, the injuries had a huge play on his success or lack there of! Shame this kid couldn't stay healthy.
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| Leafs81 |
Posted - 12/18/2013 : 12:50:41
I always thought that Marian Gaborik was over rated. Even in his prime. He did had some good seasons, he did had some games where he was dominant, but unconsistency (maybe due to an injury plague career) always took him away from the top of the league. He was often seen as top 5 to 10 in the league, where I never rated him this high, making him overrated. But he did seem to have fallen out of the radar. So this is probably something of the past.
As for today, I will go and say Jonathan Quick. Yiaks!!!! Just look at what Scrivens and Jones are doing with the Kings while he is injured.
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| Guest6751 |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 12:35:24
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9606
Who do you guys think is the most over-rated. NHL player
David Booth
Stephen Weiss and David Clarkson (big time UFA this year wow what a weak 2013 UFA group).
I have yet to see these guys do very much these days considering the pay they are getting. |
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