| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| oil guy |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 10:08:33
Who else is happy to see MAB down the road?
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| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| oil guy |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 08:21:09
Beans I agree with you, in Edmonton MAB was a complete joke but now with a good coach he has turned around, that tells me the problem was not MAB it was the coaching staff in Edmonton. I hope the Oilers ownership group sees this as well and takes every thing in to account, before MAB trade he wasa bum now hes a good player nothing but a hope in return. Before the Smyth trade they may not have made the playoffs but they could have and at least they could win a couple of games, after nada they should be playing in the AHL and I bet they would struggle there as well. They coaching and GM need to be held responsible.
IMO
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| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 18:04:41
Can you please explain to be how 25 points in 55 games and a -9 rating creates a proven, talented defenceman?? Maybe in his first year, but he has been in the league for 4 years.
I really don't want to be rude here, but did you watch a lot of Bergeron in the past few years?? He was easily, and I mean easily, the biggest defensive liability on the Oilers Roster. Not bad luck or other players bad play, he was horrible. I found myself feeling sorry for Matt Greene being forced to play with MAB and having to cover up for his mistakes. I have never, in my 20+ years of watching hockey, seen a player make more bad decisions and turn the puck over in worse spots as Bergeron did with the Oil. And rarely was he on the ice against the other teams top line.
He has totally turned it around with the Islanders. But with the Oilers, horrible. Blame him, blame MacTavish, blame who ever. With the Oilers he proven nothing except he was expendable.
I'll leave it at that. Good Debate, but I think we have beat it to death. |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 16:49:00
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
However, I think there have been times that a team didn't think a player would be better. A couple that come to mind are Brett Hull and Martin St. Louis. They didn't play in Calgary anywhere near the way they played in other places.
It's a hind sight 20-20 thing. Kinda like 1st overall draft picks. Look at a guy like Alexander Daigle or Pat Falloon. I would say that the teams who gave up on them were dead right on that.
Agreed. However, the differences I see aret:
1) Sure, they probably didnt see Hull becoming the player he was, but he was a point-a-game player when Calgary traded him. Don't forget that they got reasonable value (at the time) with Ramage coming the other way, and they were having a lot of trouble getting Hull to stay in shape (el lardo). As for St. Louis, he was small and had done nothing for Calgary before he was released (<5 goals). Yes, a mistake, but you have to look at it from that point in time as well.
2) As for the Daigle and Falloon references, yes.. some guys just dont pan out as hyped, but again this doesnt have implications on this debate.
The above (2) scenario has nothing to do with MABs case, and (1) case doesnt apply. Last year MAB was in the top 45 of ALL NHL defensemen in points, and this year he was already heading towards top 40 while still with edmonton (he's even higher now). Now, with a 'proven' offensive player on your roster, you need to either keep and develop him (his areas of weakness), or get value in return. Neither occurred. I dont think that trading a proven young MAB for a completely unproven and untouted Grebeshkov is a good deal. No matter how I look at it. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 15:36:29
Oh, I strongly agree that any organization has a responsibility to extract everything they can out of a player. And I have been saying for some time that I think the Oilers need to go in a different direction with the coaching staff.
However, I think there have been times that a team didn't think a player would be better. A couple that come to mind are Brett Hull and Martin St. Louis. They didn't play in Calgary anywhere near the way they played in other places.
It's a hind sight 20-20 thing. Kinda like 1st overall draft picks. Look at a guy like Alexander Daigle or Pat Falloon. I would say that the teams who gave up on them were dead right on that.
Sometimes you are right giving up on a player, sometimes you are wrong.
Plus, I don't think the Oilers lost much given the fact Grebeshkov is very similar to Bergeron in the fact he is a young, offensive minded defensemen. If Grebeshkov becomes a Norris type defenseman is it still a bad trade??
The Oilers dropped an under producing Bergeron for a prospect offensive defenseman. I still don't think that is a bad move.
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| tctitans |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 14:18:37
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Watching Bergeron for 2 years do worse than rookie mistakes, I have no problem with him leaving. Even if turns into a Norris D-Man, it never would have happened in Edmonton.
So how is it a mistake to release a player that was never going to perform here??
It would have been a big mistake to keep him........
You can't say he was never going to perform in Edmonton. The question is what does the team/organization have to do to get the best out of it's players? This is the real question. The answer may be an updated coaching philosophy, new coaching staff, or perhaps a new coach. But in the end, a team MUST keep it's talent and utilize it to it's fullest to be successful. And if you really need to unload talent for whatever reasons (locker room cancer, ...) then you really must make sure you get equal talent in return...
My opinion anyways... :) |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 13:03:28
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Watching Bergeron for 2 years do worse than rookie mistakes, I have no problem with him leaving. Even if turns into a Norris D-Man, it never would have happened in Edmonton.
So how is it a mistake to release a player that was never going to perform here??
It would have been a big mistake to keep him........ |
| tctitans |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 12:32:44
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
It still was a good trade because he was a bum in Edmonton.
And Nolan should be praised for his work with Bergeron as he has done more with him in two months than MacT did in 2 years.
I still think he is a highly overrated player.
Unfortunately I think it's tough to be a fan of a team and admit their mistakes. Us fans are always looking for the silver lining.
MAB is a good young (for a defenseman) player, and is only going to get better. Big mistake by Edmonton. Period. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 12:25:24
It still was a good trade because he was a bum in Edmonton.
And Nolan should be praised for his work with Bergeron as he has done more with him in two months than MacT did in 2 years.
I still think he is a highly overrated player. |
| Saku Steen |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 11:26:49
quote:
Originally posted by oil guy
Yes, he was a joke in Edmonton and is doing great on Long Island.
Maybe it was a problem with the coaching in Edmonton that could not get him settled.
Nolan seems to have him going.
I think Nolan would make any player knock out of a slump, a very long one too. |
| oil guy |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 08:05:03
Yes, he was a joke in Edmonton and is doing great on Long Island.
Maybe it was a problem with the coaching in Edmonton that could not get him settled.
Nolan seems to have him going.
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| Saku Steen |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 03:57:16
I'm not so sure it was a good trade anymore. He is doing good with NYI. Maybe he just needed a new start. |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 18:25:47
2006-2007 Islanders GP16 G5 A11 P16 +/-8 MAB's stats with the Islanders, not to shabby
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 16:54:16
quote:
Originally posted by Ddeathblade
THANK GOODNESS he's gone. He's horrible on defense. He's an offensive guy. Why not just make him a forward?? He has a great shot. He can be like Sykora, with the booming point shot on the PP. He jsut needs to work on his wrist shot. He has great speed, but is pretty weak and small. He probably can't even sustain a forecheck.
He isn't playing bad on Long Island.
Long Live Leafs Nation!! |
| Ddeathblade |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 16:50:00
THANK GOODNESS he's gone. He's horrible on defense. He's an offensive guy. Why not just make him a forward?? He has a great shot. He can be like Sykora, with the booming point shot on the PP. He jsut needs to work on his wrist shot. He has great speed, but is pretty weak and small. He probably can't even sustain a forecheck. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 12:25:26
You should all know my thoughts on MAB. All we have to do now is drop Torres and we will have a full team of class. |
| lyall |
Posted - 02/18/2007 : 11:15:29
In the east too! Hardly ever gunna have to seen the bird face again! |
