| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 08:46:07
After acquiring Versteeg, the Leafs have at least added what looks like a guy who can score 20 goals from the wing . . . but with Kaberle sure to leave in a trade, there is another shoe yet to drop.
What position or role do you think the Leafs need to aim for next, and be specific with players that might be acquired for Kaberle.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 10:13:11
Nah way more excited about Mike Zigomannis ... |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 20:22:44
Woo hoo! The Leafs signed the World Cup golden boot winner from Germany, awesome! H can kick in all his goals next year!
I'm here all night folks. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:11:54
Leafs signed Marcel Mueller out of Cologne Sharks of the German Elite League. Mueller played for Germany at the Olympics as well as this year's World Champinoships. Mueller is 6'3", 220lbs, so a proptypical "Brain Burke type player".
I don't know wenough about him but from what NHL.com and Hockey future's has to say about him it's a no lose signing. At the very least the Marlies will be good next year ... |
| irvine |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 13:27:44
Anaheim are not letting Bobby Ryan walk. Simple as that.
They also are not going to trade Bobby Ryan, unless an amazing, overpaying offer comes their way.
Bobby Ryan has only played 2 full NHL seasons, and one season of just over 20 games (if memory serves me correctly).
In those 2 full seasons, and 1/4 of a season, he has produced.
Bobby Ryan is 6'2, 208 Lbs. Which, is a good size for a forward of his finesse. And, is only 23 years of age.
Ryan had 35 goals and 29 assists this season, for 64 Points.
35 Goals in the NHL is nothing to sneeze at. Ryan's size, coupled with his scoring ability is something every team in the NHL covets. Anaheim being no exception.
Ryan in the past two seasons (his two full seasons), has two 30+ goal years.
In 64 GP (08-09), he had 31 Goals. 57 Pts total.
In (09-10), he produced 34 Goals in 81 Games. (64 Pts total).
And the kid is only getting better. Bobby Ryan has 50 Goal potential it would seem. He's not near his prime yet. You don't trade a guy like that away, especially when he's asking fair market value.
Anaheim want a longer term deal, of 5 years. If they can't get that, they will settle for 3 years. They are not letting this guy walk. Not at all.
They'd be crazy to let a highly skilled, 23 year old goal scorer to just walk over 2 years on a contract.
Ryan is staying.
Irvine/prez. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 09:54:33
quote:
Completely agree that Anaheim would get more if Ryan signs a $5+ million offer sheet with another team. The problem with that is that would nearly 100% take the Leafs out of the running.
So what? Why is TOR the only destination for Ryan? There are a lot of teams that would love a Ryan-type player, and most of them have cap room and the required picks to make a legitimate offer. ANA does not need Kaberle that badly.
Nor do they particularly want to move Ryan at all. The Ryan situation is also not about money - ANA is ready and willing to pay 5M for him - however they want to do it for 5 years, while Ryan only wants to do it for 3 years. I don't think that ANA wants Ryan to walk at all, and if no suitors come around with an offer sheet they'll just swallow it and agree to a 3yr deal. Letting Ryan get away because of that disagreement is crazy.
So, I think with Ryan, ANA will eventually come to the conclusion that they just sign him for 3 years and keep him. Unless someone throws the huge Vanek-style offer sheet his way (say 6M for 5 years), at which point they'll probably take the picks. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 05:57:05
quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
[br]
As for Ryan, I think ANA would be stupid to trade him at this point. Ryan has no arbitration rights, so he'll sit unsigned until an offer sheet or ANA comes to terms. If he gets an offer sheet and ANA lets him go, ANA will likely get 2 first round picks, a second round pick, and a 3rd round pick - far better than what they would get via a trade.
Completely agree that Anaheim would get more if Ryan signs a $5+ million offer sheet with another team. The problem with that is that would nearly 100% take the Leafs out of the running. Regardless if you agreed with the Kessel deal or not, Burke simply can not give up 4-1st round, 2-2nd round, and a 3rd round pick for 2 players. That will mean the Leafs will have zero ability to draft any quality players for another 3-4 years!!!
It just won't happen that way. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 00:46:47
in regards to ANA, I'm wondering if they're making room for something even bigger...
Kaberle has gotten all the headlines this offseason, because he plays for the Leafs and thats all we seem to hear about on TSN - so everyone forgets that CHI is likely trying to move Campbell's contract. ANA has 16M in cap space to sign 3 more guys, they could possibly have the room to take on Campbell's contract - the Atlanta Blackhawks can only take so many rejects...
Campbell obviously costs more money than Kaberle, and I would argue is comparable skillwise (he didn't see a lot of top ice time in CHI because of Keith and Seabrook). However, CHI would probably let him go for next to nothing as a salary dump, maybe a late round draft pick - far cheaper than Kaberle. Having Vish and Campbell quarterbacking your PP ain't so bad.
As for Ryan, I think ANA would be stupid to trade him at this point. Ryan has no arbitration rights, so he'll sit unsigned until an offer sheet or ANA comes to terms. If he gets an offer sheet and ANA lets him go, ANA will likely get 2 first round picks, a second round pick, and a 3rd round pick - far better than what they would get via a trade.
|
| Guest0905 |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 23:56:33
Now that anaheim has traded away another nhl defencemen Eminger for a winger in Voros they need a guy like kaberle who can qb the powerplay with Visnovsky and also play on the top pairing. Anaheim now only has 4 nhl defensemen, with Wisniewski being a rfa. The Leafs and Anaheim should get together and make a trade something like this:
To the Leafs
Bobby Ryan
To Anaheim
Tomas Kaberle, Juraj Mikus and Torontos 2nd round pick in 2012
Good and even trade for both teams. Anaheim have offered 5x$5.25 m and Bobby Ryan turned it down, looks like he doesn't want to playin Anaheim. So Anaheim adds a top pairing defencemen who can qb the pp and move the puck out of the zone quickly and efficiently and Mikus who is also almost ready for nhl duty + a pick. Not to mention they dump some salary as Ryan has already turned down $5.25 m over 5 years. Toronto gets there 1st line forward and round out there top 6 forwards.
What do u guys think? |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 05:18:11
Beans - Kadri being compared to Gagner isn't far enough off for me to make a snarky comment . . . they are both speedy, have skilled hands, etc. But so do most young guys.
I see Kadri as a bit more of a sniper, but that's me . . . and I also see Kadri not afraid of physical contact, unlike Gagner who (the few times I have seen him, admittedly) seems to avoid it at every opportunity. But, so hard to tell, as you know the learning curve can go many ways once you reach the NHL, and so many factors are involved in a player developing and reaching their full potential. But yeah, Kadri could become a marginal 2nd liner like Gagner is right now, so, we'll see.
Looks like the other "Gagne" isn't coming to Toronto, from the talk out of Philly where he claims he never gave permission to Phiolly to waive his no-trade clause. And frankly, it makes sense . . . why would he? Philly will still be at the top of most people's lists of Easter conference powers, just like last year despite the fact they eked their way into the playoffs.
All Leighton has to do is play steady and keep his save percentage above .900 . . . and hope to improve on his 4 shutouts in 103 games played. Ouch.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 22:26:24
quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
[br]quote:
Don't sell Simmonds short! As a west coast fan, i see more LA games than some of you i'm sure and this guy is pretty good! Size, strength and skill combined! Not saying he's a superstar in the making, but he could easily handle 2nd line duties on any team and top line on many!
+1
Leafs fans can be forgiven, as they probably don't see a lot of LA during the year. But Simmonds is the real deal. Only 2 years in the NHL, already at 40 points last year. He saw time on both the top line and second line. He's very fast, and plays a hard game, larger than his (surprisingly small) size. Last year he was +22, which is also surprising.
I too think Kaberle for Simmonds straight up is not fair. But in some of the group trades that were mentioned...that would be a good pickup by Burke. I'm actually surprised that LA has been thinking about moving him (or have they?)
Wow, never realized he wasn't bigger than that. I sat 2nd row at game 5 vs LA at GM Place (Rogers Arena?) a few months back and he def looked much bigger!
Either way, he's still a pretty darn good player and while maybe straight up for Kaberle seems weak, it could end up being a steal if this guy continues to develop and improve! Leafs have to keep in mind that the longer Kaberle is on the market, the closer he becomes to a UFA and basically a rental if he's not dealt until sometime into the start of the season? |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 22:03:46
quote:
Don't sell Simmonds short! As a west coast fan, i see more LA games than some of you i'm sure and this guy is pretty good! Size, strength and skill combined! Not saying he's a superstar in the making, but he could easily handle 2nd line duties on any team and top line on many!
+1
Leafs fans can be forgiven, as they probably don't see a lot of LA during the year. But Simmonds is the real deal. Only 2 years in the NHL, already at 40 points last year. He saw time on both the top line and second line. He's very fast, and plays a hard game, larger than his (surprisingly small) size. Last year he was +22, which is also surprising.
I too think Kaberle for Simmonds straight up is not fair. But in some of the group trades that were mentioned...that would be a good pickup by Burke. I'm actually surprised that LA has been thinking about moving him (or have they?) |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 19:34:44
Don't sell Simmonds short! As a west coast fan, i see more LA games than some of you i'm sure and this guy is pretty good! Size, strength and skill combined! Not saying he's a superstar in the making, but he could easily handle 2nd line duties on any team and top line on many! |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 18:23:50
And the Leafs land LeBron!!!!!
haha |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 14:25:09
I think The Leafs are really hoping Jeff Finger "Mike Van Ryn's" himself over the off season, ha ha.
I agree that Simmonds is over valued but would be a nice addition if the package were right, straight up for KAberle won't happen. My only question is Simmonds would be yet another Right Winger added to Phil Kessel, Kris Versteeg, Colby Armstrong and Colton Orr. I speculated if a prospect were included in the deal it would be Colton Tuebert, Burkie's dream is obviously Brayden Schenn but I can't see LA giving him up. Brandon Kozun would be the next best Offensive prospect the Kings would have to offer, so he would be my other guess. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 11:59:01
What's up Slozo, I though for sure that Kadri/Gagner comparison would get a vigorous retort. I'm a little disappointed I did not feel the venom of your written word!
Lebda does really make it look like Kaberle's move is on the horizon. How many more D-Men can TO fit back there. Geez, it's starting to look like Philly. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 05:04:41
Well, if we get Simmonds for Kaberle, I'll be a bit pissed, frankly . . . unless, maybe, a first rounder is thrown in there with him for next year, and we give out Kaberle and Grabo . . . that, I would be satisfied with.
But bottom line is, from what I have read on the LA Kings websites and chats, they love Simmonds, and because of that, he will be overvalued. That, plus, he is young and has potentially not reached his ceiling yet, and he is a Toronto boy who grew up in Scarborugh.
I really don't want to overpay . . . I want to underpay! And bottom line, he is probably just going to be another third liner in a long line of Toronto third liners, maybe with the odd second line duty. Which described our entire team two years ago before the moving started.
So far, we have (1) first line guy - Kessel
We have a couple of second line guys (2) - Versteeg, Kulemin [prob.]
We have a couple of potential 1st/2nd line guys in Bozak, Kadri, but they are a blank slate pretty much at this point, and odds are that at least one of them doesn't turn out to be a top 6 forward (probably Bozak)
If we are dealing Kaberle (and at some point dealing Grabo, which is why I didn't include him as a second liner), then I want a top 6 forward, someone of Verteegs value or greater at the very least.
Simmonds seems like a good kid, energy line stuff, but it's not what we need IMHO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 19:00:02
I respect that slozo but I think selling another GM on Grabo wouldn't be too easy, and we essentially have four 2nd and 3rd line centres in Bozak, Kadri, Mitchell and Grabovski. You could throw in Christian Hanson but he's my bet for a mean 4th line with Mike Brown and Colton Orr.
Barring the aquisition of a #1 centre Bozak will probably stay up there with Kadri probably playing in the 2 hole. Mitchell (and I'm no John Mitchell fan) will likely be on the third. Grabovski makes $2.1 million more than Mitchell for comparable offensive outputs plus he's more of a "Burke type" player.
Grabovski becomes I think Burke's ideal odd man out. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 18:41:02
That's not a bad guess, Tiller, except for the value back to the Leafs . . . as much as we think Grabo is a bit of a dog, he is still a day-to-day player that on a good team will provide excellent depth and a bit of scoring.
But . . . then again, with the salaries LA is taking on, that might be about right.
Bottom line, I don't like that deal, and I have to think Burke doesn't either. He still wants a scoring winger or first line center . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 18:30:16
So reports say that the Kings have once again shut down negotiations with Kovalchuk following an offer of 12 years 85 million. Couple that with the signing tonight of Brett Lebda and you have my conspiracy theory:
According to reports Dean Lombardi is getting carved up in the LA media for not being able to make a splash in this year's and recent free agency periods. He's given up on Kovalchuck's strong arm negotiations and is look at other avenues to help the Kings.
Rumours have been going since before the NHL draft that LA had interest in Kaberle. The return has been speculated as Wayne Simmonds and a prospect.
Brian Burke would ideally love to package Mikhail Grabovski in any deal for Kaberle and my guess would be Dean Lombardi would also like a forward. LA has cap room galore so Grabovski's inflated $2.9 million salary isn't as ugly for them.
TOR:
Wayen Simmonds
prospect (I suspect Colten Tubert)
a 2nd round pick in 2011
LA:
Tomas Kaberle
Mikhail Grabovski
(possibly a later round pick or conditional pick)
I name Tuebert as the prospect because of LA's glut of young defencemen (Doughty, Johnson, Teubert, Hickey etc.) |
| irvine |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 18:23:02
Indeed. The proof is in the pudding I guess.
Kaberle will be moved before next seasons opener, I'd say. I don't see Burke having plans to wait it out past day 1 of the NHL regular season. Before the signing, he could perhaps afford to keep Kaberle and just wait on it, if need be.
But with Lebda signed, I'm guessing plans have been altered to let Kaberle move on for certain. Lebda is a very serviceable D-man, and at $1.45M, is well priced.
Irvine/prez. |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 17:54:17
Looks that way Pasty
There had been some rumblings about Lebda for a couple days now. Glad to see it got done. He played well in Detroit last year, he'll be a solid depth guy for us. |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 17:34:10
well the next move was a d man,,, Lebda 1.45 mil 2 years but it must be a set up for the next move
Pasty |
| irvine |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 17:33:01
Bonuses are paid out the year after they are fulfilled. So if a player has a bonus clause in their contract for this upcoming season, it will not affect this years cap. As, nobody knows if they will reach said bonus, so it does not count on this years salary cap.
If a player does reach/exceed what they must do (IE: Score 25 goals), they will tack on that bonus to the following seasons cap.
Example: Jonathon Toews winning MVP of the 2009-2010 Stanley Cup Playoffs. In the 2010-2011 season, it will cost the Blackhawks $XXX in cap.
The team and league knew that he had that clause in his contract. But, they did not add the $ amount on to this years cap, as he had not fulfilled that part of the agreement. Now that he has, it is now tacked on to the salary cap, for next year.
They do not add bonus dollars to the cap, until the player in question exceeds what he must do. Once he does, (at any time during the year), it is still not added until the following season.
Irvine/prez. |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 15:41:49
You're partially right Irvine, teams are allowed to spend 10% over before the start of training camp so roughly a $65 million payroll. Like you said once training camp does start they must be at $59.4 million. From what I can tell capgeek is the most up to date website as far as NHL salaries go.
As far as the Leaf's numbers in my earlier post I still think the only explanation is the wierd bonus structure and when exactly bonuses are paid out/put towards the cap.
Anyone know a current GM or Player Agent ? LOL |
| irvine |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 14:31:36
For some reason, I believe teams have more to spend during the off-season, than they do during the regular season.
Don't teams have to be under a $62M cap, during this years off season? Which may explain why Toronto has $55.6M used, and almost $6M freed up.
I'm unsure the reasons why, but prior to this year beginning, I had heard something about Teams having higher cap rates during the off-season. Perhaps, this is so they can add on a little more salary, while still moving players around.
They then have to cap compliant, $59.4 (?) M by the seasons start.
So if this is in fact true, the Leafs only have $6M roughly in off-season cap space. They then have to send players to the minors, or trade guys out to be under the real, regular season cap.
Irvine/prez. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 13:31:31
I don't really understand the who 'bonus cushion' thing, but according to NHLnumbers.com(another salary cap site) the Leafs are at 55.254 cap hit, 2.535 bonus cushion, and they have a remaining cap number of $6.681 million.
Slozo, I aplogize on 2 fronts. Firstly, I did not see your retraction. However, I do not accept it! I want that bet. I need payback.
Secondly, I should have qualified my comments about Kadri getting more love than other guys. Let me use an example. I think that Sam Gagner was a solid pick and a good hockey player. I am not under any false assumption that he will become this end all/be all player because he wears Blue and Orange Silks.
Furthermore, Gagner and Kadri are actually very similar player with the exception that Gagner did play in the NHL earlier. However, both had exceptional hands in juniors, both were reasonably undersized centres, and both come with high expectations to the NHL. In fact, they played on the same team in the OHL and Gagner was actually more productive that Kadri as a junior. Gagner has produced in the 40-50 point area to this point in his career and I would be incredibly surprised to see Gagner come up with 60+ point seasons.
Kadri and Gagner are comparable
Kadri does not Zajac are not.
This is not really from the media as much as it is from the regular joe TO fan. (Not to generalize). My point is that many TO fans, Kadri will be this PPG, eventual legitimate #1 NHL centre where if he was say a Ottawa draft pick, those same fans would not think the same thing.
I am not saying that a fan can not be hopeful, but they have to be realistic at the same time. To belittle my own a little bit, it's just a sickening to hear how many Edmontonians these days are talking about Taylor Hall as the 2nd coming of Mike Bossy. It makes me throw up in my mouth a little. If he turns into the next Parise, it will be a success. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 10:34:36
interesting, the very same site capgeek is currently reporting that the leafs have only 2.5M in cap space. I'm not sure how that is calculated though, with bonuses/buyouts etc. They're usually pretty reliable when it comes to numbers though, and are always up to date. |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 10:21:18
Because Holidays are a wonderful thing and I have absolutely too much time on my hands here is the Leafs best (arguably) line up right now and their salaraies (Bonuses in brackets). All numbers are from capgeek.com:
First Line:
Versteeg $ 3.083333 / Bozak $3.725 ($ 2.85) / Kessel $ 5.4
Second Line:
Kulemin $ 2.35 / Grabovski $ 2.9 / Armstrong $ 3
Third Line:
Sjostrom $ 0.75 / Kadri $ 1.72 ($ 0.85) / Caputi $ 0.833333 ($0.265)
Fourth Line:
Brown $ 0.5375 / Mitchell $ 0.725 / Orr $ 1
First Defense:
Phaneuf $ 6.5 / Komisarek $ 4.5
Second Defense:
Beauchemin $ 3.8 / Kaberle $ 4.25
Third Defense:
Gunnarsson $ 0.8 ($ 0.17) / Schenn $ 2.975 ($ 2.1)
Goalies:
Giguerre $ 6 / Gustavsson $ 1.35
Extra Forward: Irwin $ 0.9
Extra Defense: Aulie $ 0.733333
Cap Penalties:
Tucker Buyout: $ 1
Bonus carryover: $ 1.4
Total Cap Hit: $ 60.232499
Total Bonuses: $ 6.235
Cap Hit (- Bonuses): $ 53.997499
|
| n/a |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 09:48:04
Beans - you must have missed my "I retract my comments on Kadri/Zajac" comment.
And, no, Kadri didn't get lauded more than these other guys you mention . . . that is plainly false. Especially so for Duchene and Kane who had hundreds of articles written on them as they vied for the Calder. For Kadri, it was a big buzz during a great pre-season, a few articles when he was sent back down, then nothing for the rest of the year.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 09:47:23
So I guess theat's the way the bonuses work??
Confusing. The only one I could see reaching a significant bonus for the Leafs would be Bozak however he does have their biggest bonus at $2.85 mil
But if Schenn's include games played he will likely hit some as well. |
| Leafs81 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 09:40:41
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tiller33[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]just a small question i could be wrong but according to capgeek.com the leafs can't afford to take on anymore salary, they are worse off than the Devils in view of cap space, according to capgeek the leafs only have $2,575,833 to work with,, that means they could only take on Zajac if Kaberle left and but could deffinetly not fit Elias' 6 million onto their roster without moving another player, unless its Kabby for Elias straight up then the leafs are right up against the cap with 500 large to spare roughly,, so the leafs need to shed the cap space,, maybe this is why Burkie wants to move Kabby so badly he needs cap room to fill out his top six, and the leafs have Phaneuf to move the puck along with Beachmin Kaberle's contract is expendable,,, basicly thats why everyone is lowballing Burke they know hes got to move kabby if he wants to fill out his top six, so if im another Gm im waiting or hoping Burke cracks and decides hes gottta make room,,
Pasty
I wondered the same thing because TSN, The Fan 590 etc. still say Burke has around $6 million to spend. I could be completely wrong but I think the Bonus hit that capgeek includes doesn't kick in to the cap until it is reached (goals for, games played etc.) which is what the bonus carry over penalty they show is.
Also when I proposed the deal I made the assumption of having Jeff Finger in the minors.
And let me reiterate that the proposed trade was merely speculation for us to debate about not something that i heard/see coming to fruition.
oh yeah tiller i understand we are all just spitballin here and obviously their are enough way to work around the cap its close enough you can try and make guys like fingers contract disapear in order to make this work,,
Pasty
I always go with the website nhlnumber.com and according to them the Leafs still has 6.681 million under the cap. Plus the Kaberle trade would clear up 4.25 and Jeff Finger in the minors would clear up 3.5 so this would mean they could get up to 14 million via trade. If everything happens that way.
14.431 |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 09:11:06
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tiller33[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]just a small question i could be wrong but according to capgeek.com the leafs can't afford to take on anymore salary, they are worse off than the Devils in view of cap space, according to capgeek the leafs only have $2,575,833 to work with,, that means they could only take on Zajac if Kaberle left and but could deffinetly not fit Elias' 6 million onto their roster without moving another player, unless its Kabby for Elias straight up then the leafs are right up against the cap with 500 large to spare roughly,, so the leafs need to shed the cap space,, maybe this is why Burkie wants to move Kabby so badly he needs cap room to fill out his top six, and the leafs have Phaneuf to move the puck along with Beachmin Kaberle's contract is expendable,,, basicly thats why everyone is lowballing Burke they know hes got to move kabby if he wants to fill out his top six, so if im another Gm im waiting or hoping Burke cracks and decides hes gottta make room,,
Pasty
I wondered the same thing because TSN, The Fan 590 etc. still say Burke has around $6 million to spend. I could be completely wrong but I think the Bonus hit that capgeek includes doesn't kick in to the cap until it is reached (goals for, games played etc.) which is what the bonus carry over penalty they show is.
Also when I proposed the deal I made the assumption of having Jeff Finger in the minors.
And let me reiterate that the proposed trade was merely speculation for us to debate about not something that i heard/see coming to fruition.
oh yeah tiller i understand we are all just spitballin here and obviously their are enough way to work around the cap its close enough you can try and make guys like fingers contract disapear in order to make this work,,
Pasty |
| Tiller33 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 08:55:41
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]just a small question i could be wrong but according to capgeek.com the leafs can't afford to take on anymore salary, they are worse off than the Devils in view of cap space, according to capgeek the leafs only have $2,575,833 to work with,, that means they could only take on Zajac if Kaberle left and but could deffinetly not fit Elias' 6 million onto their roster without moving another player, unless its Kabby for Elias straight up then the leafs are right up against the cap with 500 large to spare roughly,, so the leafs need to shed the cap space,, maybe this is why Burkie wants to move Kabby so badly he needs cap room to fill out his top six, and the leafs have Phaneuf to move the puck along with Beachmin Kaberle's contract is expendable,,, basicly thats why everyone is lowballing Burke they know hes got to move kabby if he wants to fill out his top six, so if im another Gm im waiting or hoping Burke cracks and decides hes gottta make room,,
Pasty
I wondered the same thing because TSN, The Fan 590 etc. still say Burke has around $6 million to spend. I could be completely wrong but I think the Bonus hit that capgeek includes doesn't kick in to the cap until it is reached (goals for, games played etc.) which is what the bonus carry over penalty they show is.
Also when I proposed the deal I made the assumption of having Jeff Finger in the minors.
And let me reiterate that the proposed trade was merely speculation for us to debate about not something that i heard/see coming to fruition.
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 08:43:59
Slozo, I am intrigued by your Kadri vs Zajac bet. Define 'better'. Do you mean straight up production?? Goals, assist, both?? +/-?? And when?? Are you saying that Kadri will produce more in his 1st and 2nd years than Zajac has or are you saying that in 2012 that Kadri will be producing more than Zajac straight up??
You can say as much as you want about my bias against the Leafs, but comments like this just make is clear that there is also very strong bias towards the Leafs. There are bigger, stronger, faster, and ultimately better players that are in the same age group(Draft Class) as Kadri who do not get the props or the potential that he gets because of the markets they play in. Again, take nothing away from a Kid who will be a Top 6 forward in the NHL (if his body can handle it). However, you don't hear about guys like Duchene, Evander Kane, Kulikov, or O'Reilly getting near the props that Kadri gets but these guys were actual NHL players this year.
Regardless, I apologize for going off topic but your bet is very intriguing. Please provide some more details on what you consider 'better' and I would more than likely take the bet. Zajac has 3-20+ goal seasons and 2-60+pts seasons in his first 4 seasons. He is only going to get better, baring any serious injuries. I just don't see Kadri's body, or immature head (as seen by his actions at the WJC) able to produce to that level. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 08:39:11
Interesting rumour about SImmonds . . . hmm. Very interesting, in that he is one of those players I haven't seen enough of to determine how good he could be, and he's had two years so far only. Seems to have surprised last year, and upside has been raised to a possible top 6 forward if he could bulk up into his 6'2" frame . . . but otherwise a great energy forward with some skills.
Would have to be a good prospect alongside Simmonds, but from what I hear, the Kings love him and would force someone to overpay to get him, so it's not likely.
Make it Braydon Schenn, and now we are talking . . . but I really don't see that as very likely either.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 07:45:55
just a small question i could be wrong but according to capgeek.com the leafs can't afford to take on anymore salary, they are worse off than the Devils in view of cap space, according to capgeek the leafs only have $2,575,833 to work with,, that means they could only take on Zajac if Kaberle left and but could deffinetly not fit Elias' 6 million onto their roster without moving another player, unless its Kabby for Elias straight up then the leafs are right up against the cap with 500 large to spare roughly,, so the leafs need to shed the cap space,, maybe this is why Burkie wants to move Kabby so badly he needs cap room to fill out his top six, and the leafs have Phaneuf to move the puck along with Beachmin Kaberle's contract is expendable,,, basicly thats why everyone is lowballing Burke they know hes got to move kabby if he wants to fill out his top six, so if im another Gm im waiting or hoping Burke cracks and decides hes gottta make room,,
Pasty |
| Guest4776 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 07:20:59
new rumour
kaberle to kings for simmonds and prospect |
| Leafs81 |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 07:12:56
quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
[br]wow, lots to comment on here:
quote:
But your trade makes total sense and I agree that NJ should look to dump some salary and they should look to get a puck moving defenseman. I hope Brian Burke talks to Lamoriello because a good deal could come out. Maybe Burkie can throw in a young goalie into the mix.
This is exactly why Kaberle to NJ for someone on NJD won't happen without additional parts. NJ has to dump salary - they cannot afford to trade Zajac (3.8) and take on 4.25M in return. So, NJD have to throw in something big, say Elias (6M) or Rolston (5M). If that happens, and you're moving Zajac + one more, then TOR is sending Kaberle + significant prospect in return (Monster, Kahdri, there isn't much more in the cupboard). Kaberle is 4.25M hit, but the entry level deal makes it work for NJD, and they shed about 5M in salary.
I don't think that Burke wants to let go of Kahdri, and I don't think that Lou wants to let go of either of the others.
If NJD are shedding salary, they could just dump Rolston somewhere and trade Elias for something cheaper than Kaberle. I just don't see this scenario happening for either side.
I don't think it was a question of trading straight up. I was suggesting exactly that, while acquiring a puck moving defenseman, which is exactly what they need, they can shed some salary. But it was never question of a straight up deal. We are always looking at a package deal. And in order to trade a big contract like Rolston or Elias you sometimes have to trade a more value piece, and while trading a value piece you might want to get something good in return. So that's why the trade tiller suggested makes sense, I'm not saying that it will happen but it's fair to say that it makes sense.
What I was suggesting is trading away Kaberle and a young prospect goalie like Jussi Rynnas for Rolston(salary dump) and a top six forward (Zajac) to compensate taking a salary like Rolston. This way NJ gets what they want a young goalie that MIGHT be ready when Brodeur retires, a puck moving defenseman, they shed some salary, they keep Elias. And Toronto gets what they want a young top six centerman and a veteran top six forward, plus they keep Kadri. Ok maybe Toronto would have to throw in another prospect to get this deal done.
Just remember that when we talk about a possible trade we're talking about a package deal and not straight up deal. Straight up deals are not much seen in the NHL today. |
| n/a |
Posted - 07/07/2010 : 06:32:55
Yeah, on the surface, you'd think a deal between NJ and Toronto could be beneficial to both . . . but as pointed out by Pasty, Zajac is young, full of promise, and pretty cheap considering, so I really don't see him going anywhere.
Would Toronto take on the older and more expensive Elias? I doubt it, but it's possible . . . he would certainly fill in the top line center role so that hopefully Kadri could make the team and become the #2. Just not certain that Burke will settle for that, and I think his primary concern is someone young and big and physical. Then again, are there any centers who are on the trading block that fit that description? Not of the caliber we need, it would seem . . .
And I suppose I will retract the Zajac/Kadri comment. Fair enough, in the end I do agree that one bird in the hand is better than two in the bush . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 07/06/2010 : 22:52:50
wow, lots to comment on here:
quote:
But your trade makes total sense and I agree that NJ should look to dump some salary and they should look to get a puck moving defenseman. I hope Brian Burke talks to Lamoriello because a good deal could come out. Maybe Burkie can throw in a young goalie into the mix.
This is exactly why Kaberle to NJ for someone on NJD won't happen without additional parts. NJ has to dump salary - they cannot afford to trade Zajac (3.8) and take on 4.25M in return. So, NJD have to throw in something big, say Elias (6M) or Rolston (5M). If that happens, and you're moving Zajac + one more, then TOR is sending Kaberle + significant prospect in return (Monster, Kahdri, there isn't much more in the cupboard). Kaberle is 4.25M hit, but the entry level deal makes it work for NJD, and they shed about 5M in salary.
I don't think that Burke wants to let go of Kahdri, and I don't think that Lou wants to let go of either of the others.
If NJD are shedding salary, they could just dump Rolston somewhere and trade Elias for something cheaper than Kaberle. I just don't see this scenario happening for either side.
Kadri vs Zajac - Leafs fans, don't get all bent out of place. One of them *might* be very good. The other one *is* very good. So many top draft picks have had potential and thrown it out the window come NHL time. I'd take proven at the NHL level over potential most days of the week (Hall, Seguin, Crosby at draft day being the exceptions).
quote:
ou don`t just go from being that good to a bum at still a young age, what is he 32 maybe ? I just don`t get these look at the numbers lately ( stats ) posts...winning in the playoffs takes heart, some players can step up their game, some can`t. I believe Giguere can still give a team a good playoff run, his salary has turned off many suitors these days, but after next season some team will get a good goalie at maybe 2.5 - 3 m per season for another 3-4 years.
The reason people look at stats is because past performance is hopefully an indicator to future performance. Duke, sometimes you do go from good to bad - esp if you're a goalie. Quite a few goalies have just "lost it" for no discernible reason after year or years of success, it happens.
JS has not been truly good since the year after his cup win. Hiller flat out outplayed him in ANA for one and a half seasons, and JS became very expendable very quickly. There were not a lot of teams looking to get him at the trade deadline, and not just because of his salary.
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