| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bozy |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 18:48:28
What will the Maple Leafs line up look like in the 08/09 season?
Post your line up below .
|
| 32 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Guest4381 |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 05:36:36
wow!!! very impressive line ups.
lets start the plans for the parade |
| pensfan17 |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 06:27:00
Thank you pickles, and I agree that this year does look bad for Toronto, the defence is good enough, Toskala is a solid goalie, but where's the offence gonna come from? |
| 99pickles |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 00:30:07
Although I meant your line-up as just an example, I viewed it as the most likely and sensible line-up offering of the thread by far. After scrutinizing your offering it seemed to me to be the most obvious and intelligent one.
That is definitely a compliment to you and your hockey intelligence, and in retrospect I should have said so. ( I was going to, but something else happened...)
What happened? That is when I realized that even though your suggested line-up is as good as it can get for this humble squad...it is a bleak outlook.
I suppose that is why I concluded that, no matter how intelligently one might line 'em up, it will still be a coaching nightmare!
Another compliment to you: as best as they can be fitted together, there is no clear or certain 1st or 2nd line. Highlighted by the fact fact that you- or any reasonably thoughtful hockey enthusiast such as you - would be wise to not try and prognosticate one as such.
The fact that we can't clearly identify leaders, checkers, mentors, aces, clutch performers, defensive specialists and so on, means that these roles may also be murky both in the dressing room and on the ice. More ingredients for possible chaos and disaster. Who will the coaches turn to when one of those roles needs to be met? Who will the teammates turn to when one of those roles needs to be met? Who will the scribes turn to when one of those roles needs to be, ahem, critiqued? And, finally, who will the fans turn to in their darkest hour, to lead their team?
Or a simple "I concur" would have sufficed, eh? |
| pensfan17 |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 10:53:45
quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
quote:
Originally posted by pensfan17
Bell - Antropov - Ponikarovsky: Big Line
Tlusty - Grabovski - Blake: Speed Line
Hagman - Stajan - Steen: Two-Way Line
Kulemin - Moore - Mayers - Grind Line
Kaberle Kubina
White Finger
Stralman Frogren(if signed)
This is going to be a season of futility.Look at the roster...some young kids who aren't ready yet... many 3rd line type players,...and at best about 4 guys who can be on an NHL team's top 2 lines. No depth. And in many cases, I foresee the possibility of unclear roles and expectations for most of them. This team is a coaching nightmare.
Is there any specifc reason you quoted my lineup, or just an example? |
| 99pickles |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 10:04:31
quote:
Originally posted by pensfan17
Bell - Antropov - Ponikarovsky: Big Line
Tlusty - Grabovski - Blake: Speed Line
Hagman - Stajan - Steen: Two-Way Line
Kulemin - Moore - Mayers - Grind Line
Kaberle Kubina
White Finger
Stralman Frogren(if signed)
This is going to be a season of futility.Look at the roster...some young kids who aren't ready yet... many 3rd line type players,...and at best about 4 guys who can be on an NHL team's top 2 lines. No depth. And in many cases, I foresee the possibility of unclear roles and expectations for most of them. This team is a coaching nightmare. |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 07:06:01
Understandable and I agree he is nowhere near being a great NHL goalie now, he shouldn't be in the NHL yet (5 games does nothing). His progress is steady and that is all you could hope for out of a rookie goalie.
When Pogge is in his prime and replaces Toskala (3-4 years away) the Leafs should have a better defense in place and an offense that can score. I'm not saying that the Leafs will be perenial Stanley Cup contenders in 3-4 years,but Pogge will be solid and should be a top tier goalie after a few years in the league. Here is why....
Pogge has the tools to be a Top Ten goalie in the NHL. Saying he has a surefire shot at it like LF_94 is not only very presumptuous but is also ignorant.
Pogge could be a Top Ten goalie because : a). He is a beast. At 6'3 and 204 pounds he really covers alot of net. This helps the next factor because...b). He is very agile. A big, agile goalie is a great asset and is a game saver. Couple that with a sturdy defensive corps (Brian Burke likes defensive teams and should no doubt create a solid defense (plus we have Luke Schenn)) and Pogge will be a force to be reckoned with. c). He is constantly improving. This shows us that Pogge is able to adapt to different levels of hockey and he can excel at them in time. lastly we have d). He has a fierce determination to be the best goalie in the league. This is apparent in his play at the WJC, his play with the Calgary Hitmen and his play with Toronto in the AHL. He constantly wants to improve and be better, which is a huge plus. Other goalies who have shown this are MA Fleury, Carey Price, Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy.
I'm not saying that Pogge will be the next Roy or Brodeur, but there are many similarities between the three of them. Size, skill, speed, determination, ability to improve. Pogge has it all. Now it's all a matter of what he does with those skills. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 19:59:18
Before all the Leaf Fans find my address and tie me to a stake outside the ACC, please understand that I am not saying he won't be a decent NHL goalie. All I am saying is that a) he is no where near that yet, and b) I don't see him as a top 10 NHL goalie in the future.
Let me explain:
1) What has he done?? He has a Gold Medal at the World Juniors. No easy feat. However, let's take a look back at other goalies who have the honor of a WJHC gold medal. Stephan Fiset(1990), Trevor Kidd(1991), Manny Legace (1993), Jamie Storr/Emannual Fernadez(1994), Jamie Storr/Dan Cloutier(1995), Marc Dennis/Jose Theodore (1996), Martin Biron/Marc Denis(1997), Jeff Glass/Rejean Beauchimin (2005), Devin Dubnyk/Justin Pogge (2006). I didn't go any further as the goalies from 07 and 08 are just barely drafted, however one of them is Carey Price, who is a bonified future top 10 NHl goalie. Regardless, if you look at the list above, there are not too many "superstar" goalies in that list. Actually, there are more flops than solid players. Have anyone heard anything from Jeff Glass or Rejean Beauchimin??? That was only 3 years ago!! My point: Being the gold medal winning goalie at the WJHC means nothing at all.
2) Let's compare Pogge to his parter at the WJC being Devin Dubnyk. And this is only statistically speaking of course. I will post all the info for anyone if they wish, but here are the details.
In the WHL, Dubnyk played around 40 more games, they had the same save percentage, Pogge had a better GAA by about .5/game and won a little more tha 50% of his games while Dubnyk won about 45%. Pogge was better
As a pro, Pogge has played 40 more games, Dubnyk has a better save percentage, better GAA, and a better win %. Dubnyk has been better.
What is my point: There are goalies in the AHL that are as good if not better than Pogge today and they are not being heralded as the next Martin Brodeur!!
And finally, if you would like to talk about a couple of goalies under the age of 25 that actually do have a shot of being top 10 goalies in the NHL we should talk about Marc Andre Fluery and Carey Price. Not a guy who had never seen an NHL regular season game.
Sorry for the long post, but understand my point. I am not saying that Pogge will not have a solid future in the NHL. I am sure he will. He will be hitting his prime when Toskala is on his downward slide. The timing should be perfect. All I am saying is that I don't see him being a top 10 goalie in the league based on what he has done so far. |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 15:03:33
At 22 years old you're telling me Pogge's .908 SV% and a 2.34 GAA are terrible. He played 41 games last year, getting experience and guidance from veteran Scott Clemmenson. Out of the 41 games he played he got 26 wins and let in only 94 goals. He improved from his first year, which is what I was saying.
Look at his numbers when he played with Medicine Hat and Calgary and you will see his numbers steadily improve and increase each year he plays with increased playing time and confidence.
He's 22 and he's improving. He is nowhere near NHL ready but in 2-3 years he could step in and be a big contributor. Isn't that what you want rookie goalie's to do, improve? His numbers at 22 are good and will be better as years progress.
You wouldn't want this guy in your system? Because you sure seem to be knocking on him hard. |
| Open_Ice |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 14:09:21
Admittedly I have not been following Pogge's career in the minor leagues ever since I had heard his numbers were not very good anymore.
I decided to look up his numbers though, as he is apparently the next guy in a long list of 'soon to be great' leafs prospects. (I guess fans have decided tlusty, bell, stralman, and kulemin cant live up to their expectations so they're on to the next guy)
Here are Pogge's amazing numbers leafsfan_101 (from the AHL site)
http://stats.theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?type=top_goalies&subType=0&season_id=12&league_id=4&lastActive=
Last season:
27th in SV% (0.908)
14th in GAA (2.34)
Two Seasons Ago:
37th in SV% (0.896)
37th in GAA (3.03)
Quite frankly, those numbers are terrible... and If you want to tell yourself that he is going to be 'The BEST' because he went from terrible to slightly less terrible that explains a lot about leafs fans and their predictions for prospects. |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 12:40:12
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
2) "toskala will not always be better than pogge. pogge is going tp be one of nhl's best goalies." quoted by Leafs_Fan 94
This one I really don't understand. We are talking about Justin Pogge right?? The guy who wasn't the best goalie in the WHL when he played, isn't the best goalie in the AHL, and now he is someday going to be the best goalie in the NHL??? There are goalies who are younger than Pogge who have already had a crack in the NHL.
Mark my words, Pogge will never be a top 10 goalie in the NHL.
If the kid was so go he would have played for the Leafs last season when everything was done for the playoffs. Any excuse you hear about why he didn't play is garbage.
How can you say Pogge wasn't the best when he was in the WHL or AHL! Pogge played extremely well in the WHL when he won the Goaltender of the Year trophy and CHL Goalie of the Year. Every year Pogge progresses and improves, as shown by his increasing numbers each year. Pogge has the tools, the size and the determination to be one of the best in the league and there is no reason to rush him.
Secondly, why would the Leafs have called him up at the end of last year? Seriously! He was in the midst of a playoff run and was playing well for the Marlies. Calling him up would have placed him onto the roster for no reason and would have added cap for no reason. It would probably hurt his development rather then help it! There was no logical reason to call him up, and any reason you hear in ignorant.
Beans, for a guy as smart as you that may have been your dumbest post ever. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 11:38:25
I have to reply to a couple of things:
1) "personnaly i havn;t seen any real proof toskala is all that good." quoted by Pasty.
What does a guy have to do to show you how good he is?? Career he's 98-53-5-11 in 181 games. He wins 2 for every game he loses. That includes playing on a weak Leaf team last year. He is the one true bright spot for the Leafs.
2) "toskala will not always be better than pogge. pogge is going tp be one of nhl's best goalies." quoted by Leafs_Fan 94
This one I really don't understand. We are talking about Justin Pogge right?? The guy who wasn't the best goalie in the WHL when he played, isn't the best goalie in the AHL, and now he is someday going to be the best goalie in the NHL??? There are goalies who are younger than Pogge who have already had a crack in the NHL.
Mark my words, Pogge will never be a top 10 goalie in the NHL.
If the kid was so go he would have played for the Leafs last season when everything was done for the playoffs. Any excuse you hear about why he didn't play is garbage.
And lastly, people, play nice. Stop the name called in the swearing. Even through you put symbols into the words, doesn't make it acceptable.
|
| Open_Ice |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 11:01:29
Maybe the MLSE will auction off roster spots to fans... it will raise some more money which they could offer to an NHL player chosen at random. It also really couldn't hurt their end of year point total.  |
| pensfan17 |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 10:33:06
Not a Leafs fan but I will input anyway, and by the way I have not set a first line or second line, just four lines.
Bell - Antropov - Ponikarovsky: Big Line
Tlusty - Grabovski - Blake: Speed Line
Hagman - Stajan - Steen: Two-Way Line
Kulemin - Moore - Mayers - Grind Line
Kaberle Kubina
White Finger
Stralman Frogren(if signed)
Frogren and Stralman were a D-pair for Sweden at the World Championships and played well together. If Frogren doesn't sign with the Leafs than Coliacovo would replace him, or maybe Knowall (he's Swedish).
Toskala is the starter with Cujo backing him up. Only bring pogge up if Toskala is injured or if Toronto is out of playoff contention. |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 19:25:14
1). I don't like you or your spelling.
2). You made Finger a LWer, Blake a Center, Hagman a Center, neither Steen nor Stajan are center's (meaning you never made them a Center), Ponikarovsky is on the 3rd line, Deveraux on the 2nd line, Kulemin a Center, you put Dale Mitchell on the roster for some strange reason and, to top it all off, you put a Jay Harrison on the Leafs. The guy is playing in Europe! So let's have a final look at your roster..... You messed up lots of positions, put player's that should be on a higher line on a lower one ( Poni, Hagman) and vise versa. You put a player who isn't in the organization (Harrison) in the lineup and put Mitchell into it for no reason. Basically, to sum it up, your lines suck.
3). Everyone else has some sense in their lines but yours have none. They have the positions correct, which is a huge step in the right direction and they (somewhat) know where to put key players. You are just stupid and you can't spell. End of story. |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 17:20:39
1. i dont like you
2. so maybe i mixed up a forward with a d man
2. nobody else's roster is any better you f***ing d***smack
quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
I think if you're looking at LF_94's roster the team actually looks worse then it is. It's by no means good but it's not the worst in the league because Atlanta has a terrible roster and Los Angelas isn't much better. It should make bottom 5 , which isn't bad considering what would be gotten with the #1 pick. It exites me to think we have a shot at Taveras, and if a few bad years means we will have a good team in 3-4 years then so be it.
Let's just hope Leafsfan_94 isn't making rosters then or any time in the near future.
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
|
| Bozy |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 10:29:49
I dont understand why the leafs are going to be so horrible next year . This is what happened Tuckers gone replacment Hagman (Hagman is more all around), Kilger is gone replacment Mayers (Better defence) Wellwood is gone replacment Grabnovski ( less injuries) , Gill is gone replacment Finger (will hit more often) & Ryacroft is gone replacment Joseph (more consistent). We have a much better coach . Also our young players have improved alot . So we have just improved and got younger .  |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 08:29:58
I think if you're looking at LF_94's roster the team actually looks worse then it is. It's by no means good but it's not the worst in the league because Atlanta has a terrible roster and Los Angelas isn't much better. It should make bottom 5 , which isn't bad considering what would be gotten with the #1 pick. It exites me to think we have a shot at Taveras, and if a few bad years means we will have a good team in 3-4 years then so be it.
Let's just hope Leafsfan_94 isn't making rosters then or any time in the near future. |
| 99pickles |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 03:09:25
I am not trying to be mean or anything, but this team looks very weak on paper. It is going to be a long year for Leafs Nation. The early 80's Leafs had more promise and skill than this group. The advent of the 3pt. game and the luck of the shootout might save this group from setting the team record for fewest points in team history. The worst part? Finishing 20 pts into last place doesn't actually guarantee them first pick overall.
And this is all coming from a childhood Leafs fan... |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 14:01:17
toskala will not always be better than pogge. pogge is going tp be one of nhl's best goalies.
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Toskala will always be a better goalie than Pogge.
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
|
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 10:11:42
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I am not saying there isn't hope for the future, I am saying short term. If this is the roster that is going to be on the ice this season, the Leafs should have no problem getting Tavaras. They will be horrible this year.
But, I also have to say that of all the players you named, there are only a couple of studs. Shenn and Stralman. One more d-man, can't remember his name but he played about 6 games with the big club this year. Pogge is not the answer. Toskala will always be a better goalie than Pogge. The problem is Toskala is 9 years older and won't be around for ever.
I still don't see a Cup for the Leafs, now or the future. Still a lot of pieces to the puzzle and you are also banking on all the draft picks maxing their potential. That is often not the case. Patrik Stefan anyone??
i think its a little early to say toskala will always be better than pogge,,, personnaly i havn;t seen any real proof toskala is all that good
Pasty |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/16/2008 : 07:28:25
I am not saying there isn't hope for the future, I am saying short term. If this is the roster that is going to be on the ice this season, the Leafs should have no problem getting Tavaras. They will be horrible this year.
But, I also have to say that of all the players you named, there are only a couple of studs. Shenn and Stralman. One more d-man, can't remember his name but he played about 6 games with the big club this year. Pogge is not the answer. Toskala will always be a better goalie than Pogge. The problem is Toskala is 9 years older and won't be around for ever.
I still don't see a Cup for the Leafs, now or the future. Still a lot of pieces to the puzzle and you are also banking on all the draft picks maxing their potential. That is often not the case. Patrik Stefan anyone?? |
| leafsfan_101 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 19:32:44
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
With all due respect to Leaf Fans, you guys are in big big trouble.
That roster would be near the bottom of the AHL!!! And, there is talks that McCabe had been trade to Florida for reportedly at least Van Ryn. Smart move Leafs, McCabe is going to make $12.45 In the next three years. So once the stupid expensive piece of the contract is done you trade him???
Seriously, #1 draft pick is coming to TO. Unless they done something drastic and add a lot of offense, they are in huge trouble. One guy with more than 20 goals and only 2 guys with more than 50 points on the roster???
Gross
I don't think it's as in dire straits as it's made out to be. Would anyone seriously not want to be in last this up comming season. Even if the Leafs don't get the first pick there is a guy that will go second overall called Victor Hedman. I don't know how long I've been preaching about him now on this site but he is going to be great, like Nik Lidstrom great.
So there are pieces to the puzzle in place now, it's just a matter of putting them together and finding the right pieces. Prospect wise we have a future superstar in Luke Shenn and a new possible one this year. Pogge is steadily improving and his AHL numbers from last year are much better then from his first year.
Then the defense is solid, now and for the future. That gives the Leafs a potent defensive lineup for the future (plus additions through free agency) and a goalie that can backstop them to wins. Up front there aren't as many solid prospects, but Nikolai Kulemin, Jiri Tlusty, Jimmy Hayes and Tyler Ruegsegger aren't the worst ones to have.
That leaves the Leafs with the potential to have a superstar in all three positions (Shenn on D, Pogge in net and hopefully Taveres at C). Add in a sturdy defense system (Stralman, Vorobiev, Kronwall) and some forwards that are reliable, plus another draft (2010 draft) and an all star general manager (I'm talking about soon to be GM Brian Burke) that is known for producing good prospects and making good trades.
All in all, looking at the Leafs with a grain of salt is like looking at a reflection of yourself in a dirty glass. It takes some cleaning and effort, but in the end you get a good result. For Leafs Nation that means a Cup. |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 19:21:23
WOOPS
quote:
Originally posted by PainTrain
quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
LW Finger
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
Hate to break it to you but Jeff Finger is a defenseman.
When the going gets tough....the tough get going!
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
|
| PainTrain |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 15:21:11
quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
LW Finger
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
Hate to break it to you but Jeff Finger is a defenseman.
When the going gets tough....the tough get going! |
| MSC |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 13:41:55
I think their best bet now is to do what the Philly Eagles did back in the day and hold open try outs. Worst case scenario they improve the entire fourth line and some of the third. Best case scenario they can charge a fee to try out and to watch try outs and use the profits to buy out Blake, McCabe, Kaberle, Kubina and Toskala. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 11:41:18
With all due respect to Leaf Fans, you guys are in big big trouble.
That roster would be near the bottom of the AHL!!! And, there is talks that McCabe had been trade to Florida for reportedly at least Van Ryn. Smart move Leafs, McCabe is going to make $12.45 In the next three years. So once the stupid expensive piece of the contract is done you trade him???
Seriously, #1 draft pick is coming to TO. Unless they done something drastic and add a lot of offense, they are in huge trouble. One guy with more than 20 goals and only 2 guys with more than 50 points on the roster???
Gross |
| Guest9649 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 11:07:08
Forwards:
Blake Antropov Ponikarovsky
Steen Stajan Hagman
Tlusty Grabovski Kulemin
Bell Moore Mayers
Defencemen:
Kaberle Kubina
McCabe Finger
Colaiacovo Frogren
Goalies:
Toskala Pogge
Subs:
Earle,Strallman & Pogge
|
| Guest8141 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 08:21:01
I totally forgot about Grabovski as well, he will definatley start the season in the line-up. Id scratch Bell =/ |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 08:18:08
You could thrown Jeremey Williams into that mix as well, the guy can score. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 08:16:26
LW Blake
C Antropov
RW Poni
LW Steen
C Stajan
RW Kulemin
LW Meyers
C Moore
RW Hagman
LW Deveraux
C Bell
RW Tlusty
Hollwig, Earl, Mitchell
Kaberle
Kubina
Stralman
Finger
Frogren
Colaiacovo
White, Kronwall, Walser
Toskala, Joseph |
| 99pickles |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 01:46:00
Just looking at this line-up makes me shake my head....there really is something to Wilson's statement, "sometimes you have to take a step back before you can move forward".
I think T.O. is finally going to do the right thing and bottom out for a season. The turtle race is between them and Florida this year. |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 19:13:53
ummmm why did you make this a poll if you dont want us to pick one of the choices you just want us to post below?????
but heres my line
LW Stajan
C Antropov
RW Steen
D McCabe
D Stralman
LW Tlusty
C Blake
RW Deveraux
D Kaberle
D White
LW Finger
C Hagman
RW Ponikarovsky
D Coliacavo
D Harrison
LW Mitchell
C Kulemin
RW Bell
G Toskala
G Joseph
Leafsfan_94
f*** You Cliff Fletcher..
LF94 is the LEAFS GM NOW
|
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