| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| admin |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 20:48:47
Is the Aaron Asham post-fight gesture a suspendable offence in today's NHL? |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fmedleg |
Posted - 10/19/2011 : 14:15:07
To everyone claiming his gestures would have been acceptable 20 years ago, we need to stop taking standards from the past and validating our actions now using them. The argument is whether he should be suspended based on today's standards.
I'm no supporter of fighting, I think it's a dumb part of the sport (Does basketball have it despite being called a contact sport? What about rugby and football? Of course not). Yet it's viciously guarded as a hallowed part of the culture.
BUT, if you're going to allow fighting to take place with only a 5 minute penalty as a consequence (essentially "allowing" it), you have to allow the actions that go along with fighting, i.e. celebrations. If you try to restrict the kinds of celebrations based on how badly a player gets injured, you leave too much room for interpretation and open a potential Pandora's box of issues for officials to deal with when they should be focusing on other things. I agree with a previous comment; if no rude gestures were made, allow it. If you don't like the celebrations, take out the fighting altogether. |
| Guest2387 |
Posted - 10/19/2011 : 10:38:45
It is the same as scoring a goal. You score, you want to celebrate. You win a fight, you wanna celebrate. If your feelings are hurt easy then get away from hockey. It's people who think celebrating is an issue WHO ARE RUINING OUR GAME! |
| Guest0543 |
Posted - 10/18/2011 : 18:16:11
To show boat like he did after hurting another hockey player....if nothing else there should have been a suspension... there are a lot of young kids that think it was so kool to watch.....set an example so the show boating never happens again...! it was a fair fight....actions after are not permitted .. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 10/18/2011 : 11:33:10
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
. Celebrating achievements is part of that fun.
and it brings fans to the arenas |
| Odin |
Posted - 10/18/2011 : 09:58:22
Have we all gotten a little too politically correct with this? I think so. Its hockey. Its a contact sport. I completely agree with Laichs comments on this. Was Asham a sore winner? Perhaps. But I don't see a problem with him showing some exuberance.
I liken this to the debate about over-celebrating in the NFL. I think they have gone entirely too far and I don't want to see the same thing happen with the NHL. Let the players have some fun. Celebrating achievements is part of that fun. |
| Guest7752 |
Posted - 10/18/2011 : 06:01:46
If Asham's gesture was suspendable or even worthy of "review by the league"...
Then "the league" will have to review all the post-goal celebrations that "may" be viewed as crossing the line or taunting. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/17/2011 : 20:48:18
My point is not that I think there should be a suspension. My point is that you can not have remorse if there was no wrong doing. By the NHL stating that no further discipline would occur because he was remoresful tells me they believe it was wrong. Furthermore, the NHL would not have sent out a memo to all teams discussing taunting if there was no wrong doing.
I would have been fine if the NHL come out by saying that no further disciple would occur, period. But the no repercussion because the player was remorseful sends the wrong message. |
| leigh |
Posted - 10/17/2011 : 14:54:02
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7601
Like it or not'remorse does play a factor in sentencing across most modern judiciary systems and rightly so. However in repeat offenders it loses its impact. Asham is a prolific fighter and is a repeat offender. I can't help but wonder if his remorse is real? Looked rehearsed to me almost like he called his agent before the cameras came in the room.
Well, we will consider this next time an NHL players is in court. However, this is completely different than the judiciary system......
I don't agree with you here Beans - it's not much different. Sporting organizations take cues from the legal system. If someone shows remorse, the level of sentence is generally reduced (as it should be) The guest above me is also correct; it does not negate the conviction, but merely lessens the sentence (or hastens the parole)
Handing out punishment should be the key goal in any disciplinary situation, but it should not be the only goal. Education and reform are also be key factors to consider. So when someone shows remorse they are in essence showing that then can be reformed. This is good for society and obviously good for the NHL too.
Punishment takes many forms and in this case the NHL has actually said that what he did was wrong, but at best his punishment should be a 'nice talking to'. The punishment must fit the crime and for someone to just gloat and get only a 'talking to' seems appropriate to me. To suspend him would be as bad or worse than not suspending a player for a sticking another in the head. Both are extremes at each end of the scale and should be punished/not punished accordingly. And of course if someone shows remorse it should be lessened.
...blah blah blah... |
| Guest5052 |
Posted - 10/17/2011 : 11:12:34
... and just to be clear, while remorse may affect a sentence, as it probably should, it does not impact a conviction.
In otherwords, the NHL did not deem Asham's actions to warrant discipline. That has nothing to do with remorse. The scope of the punishment, if it were deemed a punishable offence, might have been effected. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/16/2011 : 13:47:50
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7601
Like it or not'remorse does play a factor in sentencing across most modern judiciary systems and rightly so. However in repeat offenders it loses its impact. Asham is a prolific fighter and is a repeat offender. I can't help but wonder if his remorse is real? Looked rehearsed to me almost like he called his agent before the cameras came in the room.
Well, we will consider this next time an NHL players is in court. However, this is completely different than the judiciary system. I doubt that his remorse was staged but I simply believe that remorse or not, the action must be punished. |
| Guest8149 |
Posted - 10/16/2011 : 11:47:42
I don't think Asham should be suspended, and the league doesn't need to send a message to eliminate such classless behavior.
Ashram got the message, and if his agent was involved (as speculated by one poster), his agent called him, not the other way around.
I think the real message was delivered by his coach(es) and/or teammates who told Asham that his actions crossed the line. And that's more impactful than a suspension or fine.
What Asham did was classless and embarrassing, and he was called out for thiis thoroughly in the media. Most players (notable exception - Sean Avery) care about their image, and when don't, it's up to all who influence (or guide) them to set them straight.
I have no way of knowing the sincerity of Asham's remorse, but I highly doubt we will see a repeat of the antics he showed after his fight. |
| Guest7601 |
Posted - 10/16/2011 : 00:48:43
Like it or not'remorse does play a factor in sentencing across most modern judiciary systems and rightly so. However in repeat offenders it loses its impact. Asham is a prolific fighter and is a repeat offender. I can't help but wonder if his remorse is real? Looked rehearsed to me almost like he called his agent before the cameras came in the room. |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 10:01:56
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Does that mean that if other players are remorseful that they will not be suspended for their actions?
Exactly! Bertuzzi never should have been suspended! He showed remorse.........okay, nevermind  |
| Oilearl |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 08:27:48
I voted not suspendable. The league got it right and I thought the responses from other tough guys around the league were thoughtful and to the point. Both guys go into a fight to hurt each other and they are aware of this when they drop the gloves. The post celebrating is part of the spectacle for teammates and fans alike. This however was over the line and you can bet that Asham will have to respond against other tough guys for his actions. |
| Guest4706 |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 06:50:08
I think the league and those around this incident got it about right: It was classless and as a fan, i dont like to see it, but its not suspendable.
There is a certain irony here that after knocking a guy out hold with two big punches, we are talking about the incident after that. Given the choice, Id rather have a guy make classless gesures than punch my face in. call me falstaff.
While I did appreciate his regret, and do doubt that he knew the extent of his knock out at the time, I do agree with whoever posted that being remorseful has no bearing on whether its suspendable or not.
|
| n/a |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 06:15:09
Remember folks - it was admin who asked if it was a suspendable offence. The NHL and Shanahan may not have been that close to suspending him in the first place, and were only reacting to calls for further disciplinary action.
Myself, no suspension is totally the right call for this. It's not a particularly rude or demeaning gesture per se . . . it's just schoolyard stuff (which is where this kind of stuff belongs, IMHO). Makes him look stupid after he could have walked away with head high, letting his knockout speak for itself: a 5 minute trophy of having his team kill off a penalty.
But yeah, no suspension.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| Guest4684 |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 05:00:40
How many times did Tie Domi or any heavyweight do that kinda Jesure after a fight and get No suspention ...This is getting dumb already and Boring ..... |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 03:51:38
It will obviously not be he popular opinion based on the other posts but I would give him one or two games to send a message to the other NHLers. Reason being is the NHL's comment after the game that Asham would not be suspended because he was remorseful.
Does that mean that if other players are remorseful that they will not be suspended for their actions?
That being said, the actions of Asham were far more classless than they were rule breaking so my crusade on this cause is not very passionate. I just don't like the NHL's comments on remorse. That tells me they think he did something wrong but are not doing anything be because he is sorry about. That is the part that is wrong in this situation. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 23:24:47
The actual fight is not really in question...
But when you beat someone in a very lopsided contest (any contest in any sport), its pretty unclassy to then gloat about your victory. Asham realized what he had done was stupid, said as much, and we move on. |
| Guest4684 |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 22:16:06
Man Im sick of people crying about small gestures like asham did ... 20 yrs ago no one would of said anything know with this no fighting stupid talk ita all crap Brutall....Great Fight I didnt anything wrong at all.. |
| nuxfan |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 21:20:25
I agree, its hard to make gloating a suspend-able offense. He did not make a rude or offensive gesture, he did not intentionally injure the player in an illegal way, so no suspension.
Absolutely unclassy though, at least he recognized that and admitted as much. |
| leigh |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 21:02:59
Not a whole lot of class, but suspendable? No way! He's celebrating and getting the fans into it. If you win a fight you should be able to celebrate. But you should be aware of how badly you hurt someone and guage it from there. In that case he knew he KO'd him so maybe dial it back a bit. But it's the heat of the moment so no biggie.
I loved Brooks Laich's comments after the game. He's my new favourite player. Full respect. From TSN...http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378078
Laich, the Capitals' NHLPA representative, responded to suggestions that Beagle wanting to hurry back into action following the fight on Thursday night. Capitals head coach Bruce Boudreau said Beagle wanted to return but was not allowed because of the league's protocol.
"I really don't care about that awareness stuff," Laich told Stephen Whyno in a blog for The Washington Times. "To be honest I'm sick of hearing all this talk about concussions and about the quiet room. This is what we love to do. Guys love to play, they love to compete, they want to be on the ice.
"How do you take that away from somebody? We accept that there's going to be dangers when we play this game and know that every night that you get dressed. Sometimes it just feels like we're being babysat a little too much. We're grown men and we should have a little bit of say in what we want to do."
Brilliant!!! |
| admin |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 20:55:34
Here is a link to the fight and the gesture...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBXfD2oHRg |
