| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest4504 |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 22:37:47
I was watching the game last night and Ovechkin got another 4 goal game it is amazing how he does that. (Could he or is he) the best goal scorer in history? |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| willus3 |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:34:06
Here's a relevant article on Ovechkin's scoring this season with projections and adjusted stats for comparisons.
http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2008/02/ovechkin-08-one-of-greatest-goal.html
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 15:54:59
This is a list of the players with 400+ career goals, that had more goals than assists.
Name GP G A G/A Dif
Maurice Richard 962 544 421 123
Peter Bondra 1081 503 389 114
Pavel Bure 702 437 342 95
Rick Vaive 877 441 347 94
Brett Hull 1269 741 650 91
Mike Gartner 1432 708 627 81
Bobby Hull 1063 610 560 50
Steve Shutt 930 424 393 31
Stephane Richer 1054 421 398 23
Garry Unger 1105 413 391 22
Keith Tkachuk 976 473 453 20
Mike Bossy 752 573 553 20
Dino Ciccarelli 1232 608 592 16
Joe Nieuwendyk 1257 564 562 2
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 15:46:05
I often think of a pure goal scorer as a player who tends to get more goals than assists in a season. Below is a list of players that had more goals than assists in a season, and their differential.
Name Sea GP G A G/A Dif
Brett Hull 91 78 86 45 41
Brett Hull 90 80 72 41 31
Brett Hull 92 73 70 39 31
Maurice Richard 45 50 50 23 27
Bobby Hull 67 66 52 28 24
Maurice Richard 50 70 43 22 21
Teemu Selanne 93 84 76 56 20
Maurice Richard 47 60 45 26 19
Maurice Richard 51 65 42 24 18
Teemu Selanne 98 73 52 34 18
Brett Hull 94 81 57 40 17
Bobby Hull 62 70 50 34 16
Bobby Hull 68 71 44 31 13
Mark Messier 82 78 50 38 12
Bobby Hull 66 65 54 43 11
Maurice Richard 44 46 32 22 10
Maurice Richard 52 48 27 17 10
Bren Shanahan 96 74 44 34 10
Bobby Hull 69 74 58 49 9
Bobby Hull 70 61 38 29 9
Gordie Howe 52 70 47 39 8
Brett Hull 95 48 29 21 8
Bren Shanahan 93 71 51 43 8
Maurice Richard 54 70 37 30 7
Bobby Hull 65 61 39 32 7
Bobby Hull 72 78 50 43 7
Brett Hull 93 80 54 47 7
Mike Modano 94 76 50 43 7
Phil Esposito 79 80 42 36 6
Jean Beliveau 56 70 47 41 6
Maurice Richard 46 50 27 21 6
Bobby Hull 61 67 31 25 6
Brett Hull 99 60 32 26 6
Bren Shanahan 97 81 47 41 6
Jean Beliveau 53 3 5 0 5
Marcel Dionne 83 80 56 51 5
Maurice Richard 56 70 38 33 5
Maurice Richard 57 63 33 29 4
Bren Shanahan 99 81 31 27 4
Bren Shanahan 0 78 41 37 4
Teemu Selanne 2 82 29 25 4
Gordie Howe 53 70 49 46 3
Maurice Richard 48 53 28 25 3
Maurice Richard 60 51 19 16 3
Brett Hull 96 70 43 40 3
Gordie Howe 50 70 35 33 2
Maurice Richard 49 59 20 18 2
Maurice Richard 55 67 38 36 2
Brett Hull 97 77 42 40 2
Bren Shanahan 94 81 52 50 2
Jean Ratelle 63 48 11 9 2
Teemu Selanne 7 82 48 46 2
Mario Lemieux 87 63 54 53 1
Phil Esposito 64 27 3 2 1
Phil Esposito 66 69 27 26 1
Jean Beliveau 55 70 37 36 1
Brett Hull 87 5 1 0 1
Guy Lafleur 73 69 28 27 1
Pierre Turgeon 95 49 24 23 1
Pierre Turgeon 7 17 4 3 1
Mike Modano 7 59 22 21 1
Jean Ratelle 61 3 2 1 1
Jean Ratelle 67 41 6 5 1
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| Alex |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 19:16:46
Touching on Datsyuk's comment
If you look at Marian Gaborik, his goal highlights are nine times out of ten breakaways. Sure he is one of the streakiest in the game, but with his harnessed speed, he is the funnest player in the NHL to watch when he gets hot. People have said Ovie, maybe on a nightly basis. But at their prime, no one can come close to Gaborik!
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Datsyuk 1 |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 17:45:42
I think that Bure was a pretty good goal scorer but not as close as good as Ovechkin and Bure also cherrypicked a bit and then got a lot of breakaways. |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 16:07:51
Their are formlae for Adjusted scoring stats, they are a little more complicated. The formula is developed so it can be multiplied by the players goals to better compare them with other players in other seasons.
The one I came up with today is just to keep it simple, and based solely on the individual player.
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| Guest8815 |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 15:37:12
So by scoring factor he is 7th all time. That's pretty good for a 3rd year sophomore. By the way did you create that scoring factor stat? Because I think it is a great stat actually. |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 15:15:18
This is a list of some of the top scorers (since 1943) in their first three seasons.
The formulae I used was "Their Season Total Goals / Their # of Games Played / League Goals per Game Average that Season / 3"
Name Scoring Factor
Teemu Selanne 0.125
Mike Bossy 0.110
Alex Ovechkin 0.104
Wayne Gretzky 0.092
Joe Nieuwendyk 0.092
Maurice Richard 0.085
Luc Robitaille 0.078
Mario Lemieux 0.076
Pavel Bure 0.075
Dale Hawerchuk 0.070
Steve Larmer 0.070
Barry Pederson 0.069
Mike Gartner 0.067
Brett Hull 0.066
Peter Stastny 0.066
Jimmy Carson 0.063
Marcel Dionne 0.059
Pierre Larouche 0.057
Joe Sakic 0.044
Gordie Howe 0.019
But remember many of the top goal scorers had their best seasons in the middle of their careers...(SF=Scoring Factor)
Top Scoring Seasons
Name Year SF GP G NHL G/G
Brett Hull 91 0.160 78 86 6.9
Mario Lemieux 93 0.159 60 69 7.3
Cam Neely 94 0.157 49 50 6.5
Mario Lemieux 96 0.157 70 69 6.3
Phil Esposito 71 0.156 78 76 6.2
Mario Lemieux 89 0.149 76 85 7.5
Wayne Gretzky 84 0.149 74 87 7.9
Mario Lemieux 1 0.148 43 35 5.5
Gordie Howe 53 0.146 70 49 4.8
Alex Ovechkin 8 0.145 53 43 5.6
Wayne Gretzky 82 0.143 80 92 8.0
Pavel Bure 0 0.143 74 58 5.5
Phil Esposito 72 0.142 76 66 6.1
Brett Hull 92 0.138 73 70 7.0
Bobby Hull 66 0.137 65 54 6.1
Phil Esposito 74 0.136 78 68 6.4
Alex Mogilny 93 0.136 77 76 7.3
Maurice Richard 45 0.136 50 50 7.4
Teemu Selanne 98 0.135 73 52 5.3
Jean Beliveau 56 0.133 70 47 5.1
Bobby Hull 67 0.132 66 52 6.0
Bobby Hull 69 0.131 74 58 6.0
Pavel Bure 1 0.131 82 59 5.5
Ber Geoffrion 61 0.130 64 50 6.0
Peter Bondra 98 0.130 76 52 5.3
Gordie Howe 52 0.129 70 47 5.2
Jaromir Jagr 97 0.128 63 47 5.8
Jari Kurri 85 0.125 73 71 7.8
Teemu Selanne 93 0.125 84 76 7.3
Charlie Simmer 80 0.125 64 56 7.0
Peter Bondra 96 0.123 67 52 6.3
Mike Bossy 79 0.123 80 69 7.0
Mario Lemieux 88 0.122 77 70 7.4
Brett Hull 90 0.122 80 72 7.4
Pavel Bure 94 0.122 76 60 6.5
Jaromir Jagr 0 0.121 63 42 5.5
Jean Beliveau 59 0.121 64 45 5.8
Peter Bondra 95 0.121 47 34 6.0
Jarome Iginla 2 0.121 82 52 5.2
Jaromir Jagr 96 0.120 82 62 6.3
Joe Sakic 1 0.119 82 54 5.5
Maurice Richard 51 0.119 65 42 5.4
Jean Ratelle 72 0.119 63 46 6.1
Teemu Selanne 99 0.119 75 47 5.3
Bobby Hull 62 0.119 70 50 6.0
Maurice Richard 47 0.119 60 45 6.3
Bernie Nicholls 89 0.118 79 70 7.5
John LeClair 98 0.118 82 51 5.3
Pavel Bure 98 0.118 82 51 5.3
Wayne Gretzky 85 0.117 80 73 7.8
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
|
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 14:24:16
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6578
[quote]
Linden, Ronning, Courtnall??? Oooo big talent there, Larionov and Nedved okay, they actually had high end talent. Ovechkin did play with Semin last year, but fine he is not a playmaker like Larionov.
Yeah, they were THAT good. These 3 players in their prime would almost certainly make the basis for a championship team.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
| Axey |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 13:33:18
He can win the scoring title as many times as he wants in this era, when he cracks 50 in 50 come talk to me, also ever here of Joe Malone (pioneer goal scorer) 44 goals in 20 games., different era I know but come on now thats amazing. |
| SuperSakic |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 12:48:37
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
Along with Lemieux and Gretzky, Pavel Bure was a far better goal scorer than Ovechkin.
This is where I don't think Ovechkin gets the props he deserves. Bure played his first three years with a Vancouver team which I feel is more talented than the team that Ovechkin is playing for now.
Bure, through his first 3 years. 224 games, 144 goals.
Ovechkin, 30 game short of his first 3 years, 215 games, 141 goals.
So, as long as Ovie gets 3 more goals in his next 9 games, he is on the exact same pace as Bure. I can see him having more than that.
How is Bure so much a better goal scorer?? I could agree if you put them in the same context, but Bure(through his first 3 years anyways) is in no way more significant in the goal scoring column than Ovechkin.
You're making the assumption that "Is Ovechkin the best goal scorer in history?" means that he can score the most goals...I interpreted it to mean that he's the most exciting goal scorer. Ovechkin hasn't left me with my jaw hanging open just yet. Therefore, I would say with much confidence that Bure is far above Ovechkin. 
|
| Alex |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 04:10:51
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Really??
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
What do you mean by goals per game? No ways the NHL in 05 06 was averaging 6.17 goals per game?! I don't understand the stat.
Habs get number 25 this year
Alex, here is the site where I got the numbers.
http://dropyourgloves.com/Stats/LeagueGoals.aspx
In 05/06, there were a total of 2460 games played (30 teams X 82 game season). When you look at goals for and against (total goals in the season), the total was 15,176. Average goals per game would be 15,176 divided by 2460 games. That number is 6.17.
Goals per game is the number of goal BOTH teams score in a game. Considering that 6.17 would mean each team is averaging about 3 goals per game is pretty reasonable.
Oh that changes a lot! I'm sorry, I thought for some reason it was per TEAM not per GAME. My reading error, sorry about that Beans! 
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Datsyuk 1 |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 21:32:06
He sure has the potential although not quite yet. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 10:31:13
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Really??
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
What do you mean by goals per game? No ways the NHL in 05 06 was averaging 6.17 goals per game?! I don't understand the stat.
Habs get number 25 this year
Alex, here is the site where I got the numbers.
http://dropyourgloves.com/Stats/LeagueGoals.aspx
In 05/06, there were a total of 2460 games played (30 teams X 82 game season). When you look at goals for and against (total goals in the season), the total was 15,176. Average goals per game would be 15,176 divided by 2460 games. That number is 6.17.
Goals per game is the number of goal BOTH teams score in a game. Considering that 6.17 would mean each team is averaging about 3 goals per game is pretty reasonable. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 10:23:31
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6578
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Really??
I really think I need to put my banner back up about people doing their research.
Firstly, I was talking about the 1ST THREE SEASONS. We can't compare anything past that as Ovechkin has not done that yet. In 5 years we can then look at that period of time.
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
So your arguement is completely wrong. Ovechkin has produced the virtually the same amount of points, in the same amount of games, in a lower scoring league.
And please don't start with who had a better team. In Bure's first 2 season he played with the likes of Trevor Linden, Cliff Ronning, Igor Larionov, Geoff Courtnall, and Petr Nedved. Ovechkin's time this year with Nylander was the only time in his career he has played with similar talent as Bure did.
Take nothing away from Bure, I loved watching the guy. But to say cut and dry that he is far superior to Ovechkin THROUGH THREE YEARS is completely without merit.
Linden, Ronning, Courtnall??? Oooo big talent there, Larionov and Nedved okay, they actually had high end talent. Ovechkin did play with Semin last year, but fine he is not a playmaker like Larionov.
You only do research that is self-serving. In terms in doing research you talk about...Bure scored 58 goals (in 74 games) in 1999-2000 and 59 goals in 2000-2001 playing on an average offensive team (Florida) WITHOUT any elite playmaker and in an era where the trap was dominant and I would guess the average goals per game was significantly lower than it is now.
Ovechkin definitely has the potential to be the greatest goal scorer but he is far far away from that title until he puts up the 92 goals Gretzky put up put up or even the 86 Brett Hull put up, that is my opinion, regardless of era.
Regarding the thred
As I have said countless other times, READ THE POST!!
I am talking specifically about the first three years in careers of Ovechkin and Bure. I know what Bure did in FLA, and I know he had Viktor Kovlov(70 points) and Ray Whitney (71 points). Definately not the talent he had in Vancouver and that is impressive.
And my point about the players in Vancouver is that Bure had better and more talent that what Ovechkin has played with.
Again, just read the post. I clearly say that in 5 years we can look at it differently, and 5 years after that. All you can do today is compare similar time periods. Through the first three years(which Ovechkin is still short of), they are very similar in goals. My whole point by that was to say that you can not say that Bure is a far Superior scorer to Ovechkin, THROUGH THREE YEARS.
|
| Alex |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 07:34:01
As an aside, of the quick release guys I think we have to include Joe Sakic the guy barely even thinks and he has a wicked not to mention accurate wrister that can burn goalies more times than not.
It is actually crazy to think that he can put so much power without even cradling the puck! Kudos to my man Joe.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| andyhack |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 06:38:11
Right now Ovie may be the best goal scorer, but it is too early to talk about him as the best goal scorer in history. It's too early really to talk about him "historically". I mean let's show some respect for the older guys. Putting Lemieux and Gretzky on the side, as of right now, Ovie should not be judged as a better goal scorer historically than quite a number of players, including the three guys I mention below as well others such as Steve Shutt and Cam Neely.
Of the "quick release" type guys (probably best represented by Bossy, Espo and Brett Hull), I like Bossy the most. Though I am not a stats guy, with these types of guys, and this type of question, stats are much more revealing than in a "best ever" discussion. Look at Bossy's numbers, BOTH in the regular season and in the playoffs, particularly the playoff numbers in the Cup years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bossy
Hull - he had an amazing 4 year stretch and no question was a remarkable goal scorer throughout his career. Espo was even more remarkable. BUT, look at the consistency of Bossy's numbers! That WAS his career, from start to finish - 50 goals plus/60 goals plus. But for a back injury that would have been ALL you would see. And but for that injury, probably at least 5 more of those types of seasons. Think about that. 15 seasons straight of 50 or 60 goals! This is VERY reasonable hypothetical too guys. He was only 30 years old when he retired, and it was the middle of the offensive boom period.
15 seasons at 50/60 goals. It deserves to be repeated! |
| Datsyuk 1 |
Posted - 02/03/2008 : 00:05:18
He sure has potential too although I'd probably say Hull because he was just sit in the slot wait for the pass and next second in your net. |
| Alex |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 17:47:56
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Really??
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
What do you mean by goals per game? No ways the NHL in 05 06 was averaging 6.17 goals per game?! I don't understand the stat.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| Guest4943 |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 16:40:23
hes the top in the nhl now
but there have been beter
hes still young welll seee if hes da best lata |
| Guest6578 |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 13:18:52
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Really??
I really think I need to put my banner back up about people doing their research.
Firstly, I was talking about the 1ST THREE SEASONS. We can't compare anything past that as Ovechkin has not done that yet. In 5 years we can then look at that period of time.
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
So your arguement is completely wrong. Ovechkin has produced the virtually the same amount of points, in the same amount of games, in a lower scoring league.
And please don't start with who had a better team. In Bure's first 2 season he played with the likes of Trevor Linden, Cliff Ronning, Igor Larionov, Geoff Courtnall, and Petr Nedved. Ovechkin's time this year with Nylander was the only time in his career he has played with similar talent as Bure did.
Take nothing away from Bure, I loved watching the guy. But to say cut and dry that he is far superior to Ovechkin THROUGH THREE YEARS is completely without merit.
Linden, Ronning, Courtnall??? Oooo big talent there, Larionov and Nedved okay, they actually had high end talent. Ovechkin did play with Semin last year, but fine he is not a playmaker like Larionov.
You only do research that is self-serving. In terms in doing research you talk about...Bure scored 58 goals (in 74 games) in 1999-2000 and 59 goals in 2000-2001 playing on an average offensive team (Florida) WITHOUT any elite playmaker and in an era where the trap was dominant and I would guess the average goals per game was significantly lower than it is now.
Ovechkin definitely has the potential to be the greatest goal scorer but he is far far away from that title until he puts up the 92 goals Gretzky put up put up or even the 86 Brett Hull put up, that is my opinion, regardless of era.
Regarding the thred |
| LeafsFan4Life |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 12:58:07
Gotta love Ovie, who else gets put on the point on a powerplay great natural goal scorer, could be one of the best or maybe the best goal scorer there is in the nhl at the present time, although i dont think right now in history, but time will tell
Go Ovie
Long Live Hockey |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 08:54:56
Really??
I really think I need to put my banner back up about people doing their research.
Firstly, I was talking about the 1ST THREE SEASONS. We can't compare anything past that as Ovechkin has not done that yet. In 5 years we can then look at that period of time.
Bure's first three seasons and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
91/92 - 6.96
92/93 - 7.25
93/94 - 6.48
Ovehckin's first 2 1/2 years and the goals per game for the league in those years are:
05/06 - 6.17
06/07 - 5.89
07/08 - 5.62
So your arguement is completely wrong. Ovechkin has produced the virtually the same amount of points, in the same amount of games, in a lower scoring league.
And please don't start with who had a better team. In Bure's first 2 season he played with the likes of Trevor Linden, Cliff Ronning, Igor Larionov, Geoff Courtnall, and Petr Nedved. Ovechkin's time this year with Nylander was the only time in his career he has played with similar talent as Bure did.
Take nothing away from Bure, I loved watching the guy. But to say cut and dry that he is far superior to Ovechkin THROUGH THREE YEARS is completely without merit. |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 06:39:01
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
Along with Lemieux and Gretzky, Pavel Bure was a far better goal scorer than Ovechkin.
This is where I don't think Ovechkin gets the props he deserves. Bure played his first three years with a Vancouver team which I feel is more talented than the team that Ovechkin is playing for now.
Bure, through his first 3 years. 224 games, 144 goals.
Ovechkin, 30 game short of his first 3 years, 215 games, 141 goals.
So, as long as Ovie gets 3 more goals in his next 9 games, he is on the exact same pace as Bure. I can see him having more than that.
How is Bure so much a better goal scorer?? I could agree if you put them in the same context, but Bure(through his first 3 years anyways) is in no way more significant in the goal scoring column than Ovechkin.
Beans, I think bure is better. Don't forget he played his entire career in the dead puck era. To even get one goal every three games was impressive.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 06:37:11
He's not even close. First, let him consentrate on being the ebst goalscorer in the NHl right now, which I don't think he is. Then, when he's maybe 32 or something, he can think about being one of the top ten goal-scorers of all time. He does have a scoring gift though.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
| shinnyafterschool |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 21:24:34
quote:
[i]
And my heart stays with the Canadian boys. I don't want a Russian taking some of the spotligh away from us Canucks 
Habs get number 25 this year
I understand where you're coming from, but right now, the NHL NEEDS Ovechkin. Even as a canadian I would love to see Ovechkin get 70+ goals right now. Its good for the sport and it's fun to watch.
After seeing the top five goal scorers, It was hard for me to envision Ovechkin cracking 700. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 14:43:18
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
Along with Lemieux and Gretzky, Pavel Bure was a far better goal scorer than Ovechkin.
This is where I don't think Ovechkin gets the props he deserves. Bure played his first three years with a Vancouver team which I feel is more talented than the team that Ovechkin is playing for now.
Bure, through his first 3 years. 224 games, 144 goals.
Ovechkin, 30 game short of his first 3 years, 215 games, 141 goals.
So, as long as Ovie gets 3 more goals in his next 9 games, he is on the exact same pace as Bure. I can see him having more than that.
How is Bure so much a better goal scorer?? I could agree if you put them in the same context, but Bure(through his first 3 years anyways) is in no way more significant in the goal scoring column than Ovechkin.
|
| Guest5243 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 13:48:58
I wouldn't argue with Ovechkin being the greatest goal scorer this season. He clearly has great touch around the net and he plays hard most nights.
As far as greatest 'pure goal scorer' in history. We need at least another 10 seasons to determine that.
Beside those players already mentioned above I would add Mike Bossy and Cam Neely. Those two guys deserve mention on the best 'pure goal scorer' list. |
| Alex |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 12:15:40
quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
ties for first with gretzky and lemieux
>>>Go Leafs Go<<<
Wings 4 Da Cup
I'm sorry that is completely unwarranted without some backup and at least a paragraph of evidence supporting you. We are talknig about the best players in NHL history right here mister LF94. You can not just type 'oh this little kid over here is better than them' without justifying it.
Maybe one day he will be. In fact, I would absolutely love to see history in the making. But for now it is too early to say something at least without adding some proof.
And my heart stays with the Canadian boys. I don't want a Russian taking some of the spotligh away from us Canucks
Habs get number 25 this year |
| SuperSakic |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 12:13:54
Along with Lemieux and Gretzky, Pavel Bure was a far better goal scorer than Ovechkin. |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:49:35
ties for first with gretzky and lemieux
>>>Go Leafs Go<<<
Wings 4 Da Cup
[IMG]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/shahir29/sundin500apwm6br2.gif[/IMG]
|
| Beans15 |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 11:09:45
I can say that so far, no. There are other who have been better.
That being said, might be. Consider that he is getting 40+ goals a year in his first few years. He will continue to get better. He is on pace for nearly 70 goals this year.
It is not out of the question to think that he MIGHT end his career among the best ever. Here are the top 5
Gretzky-894
Howe-801
Hull-741
Dionne-731
Esposito-717
IF Ovechkin finishes the year with 70, he will be at 168 through 3 seasons (average of 56/year). He would have to continue that pace for another 13 seasons to overtake Gretzky.
Is that possible?? Yes. Can you say it will happen for certain?? No.
Will it be fun to watch?? Definately. |
| Alex |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 04:18:51
I'm sorry, but Ovechkin clearly is the best goal scorer in the NHL right now.
'Does this kid LOVE to score'
You all know where that line comes from 
Best goal scorer in history, whoa. Hold on Guest, one 4 goal game and to be leading the NHL by about 7 goals a little more than halfway through and NHL season does not make you the greatest goal scorer in NHL history.
That would go to Lemieux or of course Wayne, the sixth-sense guys who made plays out of nowhere again and again and again every single night.
Habs get number 25 this year |
| MarkhamMax |
Posted - 02/01/2008 : 01:39:26
I have to agree. As a 'complete' two-way player, Ovechkin is far down the list as I see it.
As a pure goal scorer, he is absolutely exciting to watch, but until proven otherwise "The Great One" will hold this title for a looooong time. |
| PENSFAN8771 |
Posted - 01/31/2008 : 23:05:38
He may have the potential to be, but not even close. Is he even the best scorer of the present? I think Kovie and Iggy are both at present better scorers. And a young Lemieux could do things with the puck that I don't know if I'll ever see again. I was still too young to appreciate Gretzky in his prime, but his highlight reels at least rival Ovechkin's. His instincts on full game reels are far better.
So . . . no, just no. |
