| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alex |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:43:36
It's probably the closest race out of all the hockey awards. Who deserves the Jack Adams Trophy for coach of the year? |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| PainTrain |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 09:50:46
Its kinda obvious that Bruce Boudreau will win it. But I think Brent Sutter should win it. He took a New Jersey Devils team with just a good goalie, and 4 good forwards and 1 good defence and he lead them to playoffs with a really bad team. I think he deserves some consideration. |
| Guest2719 |
Posted - 05/02/2008 : 11:59:19
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
I come from the days when both teams got a point for a tie and went home, so to me the "loser point" is a bit of a myth. What is more relevant is actually the "winner point" which wasn't there before, and my guess is that the Bs didn't have too many of those this past year as I don't remember too many overtime or shootout wins.
So the Bs finished well above .500 by calculations under our current point system in the 2000s and more or less by the old point system in the 1970s too (great decade by the way ). And that IS something to brag about! But Claude won't, cause he is a cool understated guy. I admit it. I like the guy!
I do agree with your assessment that the Jack Adams should go to the coach that contributes most to his team, and that Boudreau deserves a lot ofcredit based on the numbers the Caps put up with him behind the bench, but lets not forget that he had at the very least an MVP candidate, maybe THE MVP, on his team. Eventually that team, whose roster improved as the year went along by the way, was going to turn around from their slow start no matter who replaced Hanlon. But I admit that what Gabby did was impressive indeed.
BUT when you factor the Ovie thing in and the adversity that Julien helped the Bs overcome, this 77% biased Bruin fan concludes that Julien's performance is the more admirable of the two.
Edit - As for Therien, Crosby played 53 games. Bergeron played 10. And the Pens have Malkin and some other pretty talented guys. They are a step or two up on the Bs in the talent department I would say.
I have to agree, the loser point is a myth. Losing in overtime should be all or nothing, as the whole team can contribute to a win or loss. The shoot out is a spectacle with only the fans in the building getting anything out of it. Points for that should mean nothing.
But out of those 41 wins, how many were in overtime or shootout? Probably a couple. Thing is you have to go by the rules being played at the time the game is going on for the season we have, not from the past or something else. So the Bruins were above .500, because they got more than half the points they could get. And good on them. Julienne should be coach of the year, because he took a weak team, gave them a system they could accomplish things with, and pushed a more talented team to the brink of elimination in the playoffs.
Statistically, a team could be at .500 having never won a game all year long. But they couldn't lose one either, in overtime or by shoot out or whatever. If they did, they shouldn't be considered at .500. But by tieing every game, you are .500.
But now, Go Habs Go!!! |
| Axey |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 18:54:42
Carbo gets it, pulling his team from 10th to 1st, first time in decades. Boudreau right there but the only reason they got to 3rd was because the canes and the rest of that division was brutal and it was either be 3rd or out. Good comeback though but Carbo gets it in my opinion |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 14:16:57
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Craig MacTavish also deserves recognition for almost pulling a team who openly admitted not trying to win this season out of the hardest division in the NHL and into the post season.
Openly admitted not trying to win? Where on Earth did you get that?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
| Alex |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 14:08:00
Just want to say, thank you guys for giving this topic the attention it deserves. Coaches go unnoticed when they play the biggest if not one of the biggest parts in hockey. The candidates are endless and this is why I would have to say my favourite award is the Jack Adams.
Just want to say that I did forget Sutter when I made my ''could have should have'' list. Thank you MadCapper for that one.
When you look at all the nominees, the ones we are inclinied to vote for had a distinct advantage over others. Boudreau, who in my mind is the shoe in, happened to have a red-hot Ovechkin and stellar Huet, Federov, Green, Backstrom, Semin and Laich. Babcock I think we can all agree has way too good of a team to be a worthy candidate, regardless of his team's record. Over in Montreal, it was Gainey that set up the first NorthEast title in 15 years, not Guy.
Andyhack makes a great case for Claude Julien, and I tip my hat to him because he is right. Julien had so much going against him, and he pulled off a great finish. Imagine had they been in the SouthEast, with an Ovechkin on their team how much better they would have been!
As an aside, I really think that the NHL should have a GM of the year award. Thoughts?
Check out the Alex Blog
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4028 |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 12:44:26
i went with boudreau because montreal and detroit are very easy teams to coach considering how good they are
Leafsfan_94
|
| andyhack |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 12:06:25
quote:
Originally posted by hkalirah
I have to respectfully disagree with you Andyhak.
Under your logic all but 6 teams hit the .500 plateau (82 points in 82 games). This used to work, however the “loser” point has thrown a wrench into that logic. When I said Boston was only .500, it was because they won 41 of 82 games. Hardly something to brag about.
However, discussing the “loser” point is a whole new topic on its own.
I think the Jack Adams trophy represents more than the adversity your team faces. It should go to the coach who is most responsible for their team’s success.
I think Boudreau is the perfect example of this. His team had only won 6 games prior to his arrival. After he took over, the team won an astounding 37 of 57 games.
If you want to talk about coaches who lost their #1 player, as well as their starting goalies, Michel Therien should be nominated as well.
I have to respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement hkalirah.
I come from the days when both teams got a point for a tie and went home, so to me the "loser point" is a bit of a myth. What is more relevant is actually the "winner point" which wasn't there before, and my guess is that the Bs didn't have too many of those this past year as I don't remember too many overtime or shootout wins.
So the Bs finished well above .500 by calculations under our current point system in the 2000s and more or less by the old point system in the 1970s too (great decade by the way). And that IS something to brag about! But Claude won't, cause he is a cool understated guy. I admit it. I like the guy!
I do agree with your assessment that the Jack Adams should go to the coach that contributes most to his team, and that Boudreau deserves a lot ofcredit based on the numbers the Caps put up with him behind the bench, but lets not forget that he had at the very least an MVP candidate, maybe THE MVP, on his team. Eventually that team, whose roster improved as the year went along by the way, was going to turn around from their slow start no matter who replaced Hanlon. But I admit that what Gabby did was impressive indeed.
BUT when you factor the Ovie thing in and the adversity that Julien helped the Bs overcome, this 77% biased Bruin fan concludes that Julien's performance is the more admirable of the two.
Edit - As for Therien, Crosby played 53 games. Bergeron played 10. And the Pens have Malkin and some other pretty talented guys. They are a step or two up on the Bs in the talent department I would say.
|
| hkalirah |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 11:32:48
quote:
Originally posted by hkalirah
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
The Bruins had 94 points in 82 games. Better than .500, and actually the exact same point total as the Caps.
Of course it wasn't just his doing, but I think, given the circumstances, including losing your Number 1 Goalie, losing maybe your Number 1 or 2 forward, losing a number of other valuable players for lengthy periods, losing A LOT of games to shootouts, losing all your games to your Number 1 rival, ETC, that, if nothing else, Julien deserves some credit for preventing any of his players from jumping off the top of a Boston skyscraper this past year.
I have to respectfully disagree with you Andyhak.
Under your logic all but 6 teams hit the .500 plateau (82 points in 82 games). This used to work, however the “loser” point has thrown a wrench into that logic. When I said Boston was only .500, it was because they won 41 of 82 games. Not a bad record, but hardly something to brag about.
However, discussing the “loser” point is a whole new topic on its own.
I think the Jack Adams trophy represents more than the adversity your team faces. It should go to the coach who is most responsible for their team’s success.
I think Boudreau is the perfect example of this. His team had only won 6 games prior to his arrival. After he took over, the team won an astounding 37 of 57 games.
If you want to talk about coaches who lost their #1 player, as well as their starting goalies, Michel Therien should be nominated as well.
Go Wings Go!
Go Wings Go! |
| hkalirah |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 11:32:10
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
The Bruins had 94 points in 82 games. Better than .500, and actually the exact same point total as the Caps.
Of course it wasn't just his doing, but I think, given the circumstances, including losing your Number 1 Goalie, losing maybe your Number 1 or 2 forward, losing a number of other valuable players for lengthy periods, losing A LOT of games to shootouts, losing all your games to your Number 1 rival, ETC, that, if nothing else, Julien deserves some credit for preventing any of his players from jumping off the top of a Boston skyscraper this past year.
I have to respectfully disagree with you Andyhak.
Under your logic all but 6 teams hit the .500 plateau (82 points in 82 games). This used to work, however the “loser” point has thrown a wrench into that logic. When I said Boston was only .500, it was because they won 41 of 82 games. Hardly something to brag about.
However, discussing the “loser” point is a whole new topic on its own.
I think the Jack Adams trophy represents more than the adversity your team faces. It should go to the coach who is most responsible for their team’s success.
I think Boudreau is the perfect example of this. His team had only won 6 games prior to his arrival. After he took over, the team won an astounding 37 of 57 games.
If you want to talk about coaches who lost their #1 player, as well as their starting goalies, Michel Therien should be nominated as well.
Go Wings Go! |
| mAdCapper |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 11:12:35
I'll give andy that one. I think Julien should be given a big nod for what he did in Boston. Savard is their top offensive player and he is soft at best. Tim Thomas is not the goalie you'd expect to be able to come in and get things done and your D is good in their zone, but there isn't exactly an Orr on the blueline.
I'd have voted Julien or Sutter in NJ (to lose the players they lose every year and still have home ice?) |
| andyhack |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 10:57:10
The Bruins had 94 points in 82 games. Better than .500, and actually the exact same point total as the Caps.
Of course it wasn't just his doing, but I think, given the circumstances, including losing your Number 1 Goalie, losing maybe your Number 1 or 2 forward, losing a number of other valuable players for lengthy periods, losing A LOT of games to shootouts, losing all your games to your Number 1 rival, ETC, that, if nothing else, Julien deserves some credit for preventing any of his players from jumping off the top of a Boston skyscraper this past year. |
| Alex |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 10:45:55
A ton of guys who didn't get on the ballot deserve recognition. Joel Quenneville of the Colorado Avalanche is one of them. Others had Ron Wilson as another one. And of course, Ken Hitchock and Wayne Gretzky all did amazing things too. Craig MacTavish also deserves recognition for almost pulling a team who openly admitted not trying to win this EDIT: What I mean is they are in a process of rebuilding and clearly sent across the message that they were not trying to be contenders this year. This is obvious by, for example, their trade deadline actions (i.e. none). That is what I meant, OilinOntario season out of the hardest division in the NHL and into the post season.
But when push comes to shove, I think the argument becomes how much did the coach contribute, and how much did the GM contribute. Montreal was not supposed to be this good, not by a long shot. Is Carbo the reason for their success? I would say not the big on. First you have a great drafting team, who stole guys like Streit and Halak, took a gamble on Price, and had the presence of mind to keep his cards close to him during the trade deadline. I think that Bob Gainey, an overachieving core of young talent, a stud in Mike Komisarek, and Cristobal-free Carey Price are the reason Montreal was so good. Not as much Guy Carbonneau.
Then you have Mike Babcock. Goodness gracious, that team is all Ken Holland. Even NHL.com focuses on all the franchises' previous achievements (17 straight playoffs, most succesful professional sport team) before actually saying what it was that the coach did to make his team better than they are this year. Any coach with such great players could have done nearly as well, some even better.
Ron Wilson, same story, it was the Campbell trade, the Thornton trade, the Rivet trade, nabbing Nabokov, all orchestrated by the GM, that made the team this great this year.
Wayne Gretzky, on the other hand, has no one to work with. Nor does Ken Hitchcock. Calude Julien's group is slightly better, but not much. And Washington? Their success lies in the drafts of previous years. While Boudreau is undoubtedly the feel good story of the year, if any player other than Ovechkin was his go-to guy, he would never have had the results. Getting Federov and Huet, as well as a red-hot Ovechkin was the difference. Not as much Boudreau. That being said, I think he will win, only because he is the feel-good story of the year.
Gretzky and Hitchkock are not nominated because their teams did not make the playoffs, although I feel both of them and Julien should be on the ballot as opposed to the guys who are on the ballot. Queneville did a pretty good job too, shifting around his lineup every night due to injuries. Though at the end of the day, the Avs are an easier team to win with, regardless.
Only because Julien fought through injuries, weak rosters and adversity to take the Eastern champs to seven games, I will vote for him. Had they not made the playoffs, I would vote for MacTavish.
Check out the Alex Blog
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4028 |
| hkalirah |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 10:30:46
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
I'm going the homer route on this one. The coach of the year isn't on the list. It's the guy who made a playoff team out of a team which lost one of their best players for almost the entire season and a host of other players. It's the guy who has no Russian superduperstar on his team. It's the guy who has minimal talent compared to a team with players like Datsyk and Zetterberg or a VASTLY underrated Habs team that SHOULD have been picked significantly higher by the experts at the start of the season (I still don't get how wrong the experts got that).
The coach of the year was the coach fired by the Habs after leading them to an improbable first round victory in 2004, and the coach fired by the Devils late in the 2006 season despite having the Devils in frst place at the time.
This guy is used to getting the short end of the stick. One day, maybe there will be a very sweet ending for him.
You have to keep the faith!
I don't know how good his team really was. He lead them to a .500 record.
Was the playoff birth really his doing? Or was it that teams like Buffalo didn't live upto expectation?
Oh and I picked Boudreau.
Go Wings Go! |
| Pasty7 |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 10:28:58
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
I'm going the homer route on this one. The coach of the year isn't on the list. It's the guy who made a playoff team out of a team which lost one of their best players for almost the entire season and a host of other players. It's the guy who has no Russian superduperstar on his team. It's the guy who has minimal talent compared to a team with players like Datsyk and Zetterberg or a VASTLY underrated Habs team that SHOULD have been picked significantly higher by the experts at the start of the season (I still don't get how wrong the experts got that).
The coach of the year was the coach fired by the Habs after leading them to an improbable first round victory in 2004, and the coach fired by the Devils late in the 2006 season despite having the Devils in frst place at the time.
This guy is used to getting the short end of the stick. One day, maybe there will be a very sweet ending for him.
You have to keep the faith!
i agree 110% julien is deffinetly coach of the year no question and its a shame he is not nominated!
Pasty |
| andyhack |
Posted - 05/01/2008 : 10:10:57
I'm going the homer route on this one. The coach of the year isn't on the list. It's the guy who made a playoff team out of a team which lost one of their best players for almost the entire season and a host of other players. It's the guy who has no Russian superduperstar on his team. It's the guy who has minimal talent compared to a team with players like Datsyk and Zetterberg or a VASTLY underrated Habs team that SHOULD have been picked significantly higher by the experts at the start of the season (I still don't get how wrong the experts got that).
The coach of the year was the coach fired by the Habs after leading them to an improbable first round victory in 2004, and the coach fired by the Devils late in the 2006 season despite having the Devils in frst place at the time.
This guy is used to getting the short end of the stick. One day, maybe there will be a very sweet ending for him.
You have to keep the faith! |
| Timay |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:58:53
I went with Boudreau too.. not bad to take the last placed team in the NHL and bring them to 3rd in the east after something like 20 games into the season. Earned his team home-ice advantage and was able to squeak out 4 games there too!
Phaneuf pher Norris |
| Gostarsgo12 |
Posted - 04/30/2008 : 20:55:45
Bruce boudreau deserves it. The Caps started the season terrible Glen Hanlon was fired looked liked another crappy season for the caps but this guy came in and got the most out of his players. He should probably thank Alexander Ovechkin in his speech when he wins it. I also think Dave Tippet deserves some credit even though he can't win it because he's not a nominee but considering we started the season terrible and now were close to getting into the 3rd round thats pretty darn good.
Go Stars!!! |
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