| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:59:46
is benching a player every game a good idea by ron wilson?
go thrasher go! |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fanoleaf |
Posted - 11/06/2008 : 12:42:27
Tough to vote on this one.
I don't think that it needs to be a mandate to always bench a player every game. When it needs to be done it should be done.
I think the Ronnie has done a great job showing the players on this young team that if they do not perform or buy into the system they could easily be on the outside looking in.
I don't know if the energy that the team is bringing into the games is because they are afraid that they will be benched if not.
What I do know is the Ronnie is putting his stamp on this team and that I have not seen the Leafs play with as much speed and determination as they are currently.
Hats off to Ron Wilson thus far.
Does anynone think that Mats would have bought into this system? |
| colarox |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 17:43:00
were done arguing with you!!
whats clorapedia?!
stop giving specific examples
go thrasher go! |
| MSC |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 08:23:39
blah blah blah blah blah blah BOOM
http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/news/index.php?id=4702&showToc=1&
here's one...99mph
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/2008/02/06/king_chl_news/
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| MSC |
Posted - 11/04/2008 : 07:14:25
Yes, some players play their best hockey after 30. The problem is when you're talking about the league in general "some" players aren't the ones you count. You have to go by the "MAJORITY", and the majority see a decline after 30 or shortly thereafter. You're arguement about me just being wrong about the shooting in the OHL compared to the NHL is very compelling. I don't know why I bothered trying to talk about this in the first place when I was going against a Master Debater like yourself.
Please feel free to do your own research to prove to me that the real average weight difference isn't under 10lbs but in fact the 20lbs which you seem to believe in. So far the only proof I've seen to the contrary is you saying so. As highly as I regard you as my source of hockey related info I know you won't let me down and you'll be able to pull somthing out of www.clorapedia.com to prove me wrong.
Nashville- Jr=85 NHL=90....didn't think I'd have to explain that one out....that's besides the point, I find it very hard to believe no one in Jr is hitting 90+ on their shots. |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 15:02:57
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
The 85-90mph shot was a Jr. to NHL comparsion please use a little common sense when replying. I would be absolutly amazed if there's a 20 lbs difference. The only players who really have a huge weight difference from now and when they broke into the league are your over 30 players. And for the most part although they've gotton bigger they've also slowed down.
And again I'd like to reiterate that the lower quality of hockey you're going to see different types of injuries. NOT EVERY INJURY IS FROM A SHOT. Yes, more then likely if you get hit in the ankle with a puck from some dude in Pee Wee it's gonna hurt but just bruise...if you get hit in the ankle with a shot by ANYONE in Jr. hockey you've got just as much of a chance of serious injury then if someone in the NHL took that shot.
I'd love to see a junior hit 90 mph. Let me know when you witness it. Not all injuries are from shots, that's true. As for the slowing down comment, not true. Goalies have much more agility when they lose weight, but I've seen when some players gain weight (muscle) they get a lot faster as well.
Ellis or Renne....
ELLIS
Go Preds Go! |
| colarox |
Posted - 11/02/2008 : 08:03:03
to msc,some players at age 30 are at their best..
with the shot of an nhler compared to a ohler--yuore just wrong and im done arguing about it
the spitfires are a big team--and still thats ten pounds less than an "avg" nhl team--which can make a big difference
go thrasher go! |
| MSC |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:59:14
Ok, so it's real funny the things you'll do at work to avoid work....I was curious about the size thing so I did a little research. I didn't feel like finding averages for every damn team in every damn league so I took the two teams who were currently first place in their respective leagues. The Windsor Spitfires vs New York Rangers....
Spitfires
Average weight-194.80lbs
Rangers
Average weight- 203.63
I really don't know what this says about the big picture, but when I look at the little picture I see a group of 16-19 year olds weighing under 10lbs on average then a group of 19-40 year olds.....
|
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 00:27:12
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Which brings me to PhillyFan12 - you're wrong. Luke Schenn most definitely IS an amazing player. At 18 turning 19, he is a defenceman that has been much better than average as a rookie, playing lots of minutes in crucial situations. That to me is amazing, and well beyond any expectations I ever had for the kid.
When did PhillyFan12 say that he wasn't amazing, it most definalty was not in this forum.
I think the fact that the Leafs have a decent enough record right now, compared to what alot of us thought they would, shows that whatever Wilson is doing is working and he should keep on doing it.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
| MSC |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 20:53:48
The 85-90mph shot was a Jr. to NHL comparsion please use a little common sense when replying. I would be absolutly amazed if there's a 20 lbs difference. The only players who really have a huge weight difference from now and when they broke into the league are your over 30 players. And for the most part although they've gotton bigger they've also slowed down.
And again I'd like to reiterate that the lower quality of hockey you're going to see different types of injuries. NOT EVERY INJURY IS FROM A SHOT. Yes, more then likely if you get hit in the ankle with a puck from some dude in Pee Wee it's gonna hurt but just bruise...if you get hit in the ankle with a shot by ANYONE in Jr. hockey you've got just as much of a chance of serious injury then if someone in the NHL took that shot. |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 17:16:01
to ThorntonisTHEMAN, luke plays better
to axey, yes the whole organization is a joke, until theyve finished rebuilding
yes, i think weve established that hollweg is a goo, pest etc and should be benched
to nashvillepreds, thank you, exactly my point
to msc,
hollweg, as we can see, got brain damage (sorta lol)
5-10 lbs ?! more like 20 avg
for injuries,comparing peewee to nhl is just plain wrong--i THINK quite a few more nhl'ers have injuries.
and 85-90! a house league player with a 85 mph shot ?!wow--some league you play in/watch
from a peewee shot you can get a bruise
from an nhl shot you can ....(eg. break a rib, an ankle etc)
sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about
go thrasher go! |
| Guest4677 |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 16:27:35
If anything Hollweg should be benched. All the guy is, is a goon |
| MSC |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 15:30:45
So guys like Hollweg skipped Jr? They went straight to the NHL and never threw a greasy hit in the minors? I don't know the numbers, nor do I have the time to research them, but I'd be willing to bet that the average height/weight of an OHL'er compared to an NHL'er isn't that much difference....I'm saying 5-10 lbs off the top of my head.
As far as injuries coming from other sources that's precisely my point, it doesn't matter what league you play in chances of injury ARE THE SAME from pee wee house league to the NHL....also anyone who thinks that you don't have as much of a chance of injury from being hit by a 85mph slap shot as a 90mph slap shot has no hockey sense. |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 15:23:49
quote:
Originally posted by MSC
I think this line of though is wrong. In the NHL you are playing against more experianced players who have been around the league. These players are in fact better checkers, and for the most part a good check has less chance of injury then a kid in juniors just throwing his weight around not using proper technique, form or respect. Therefore, there definatly IS LESS of a chance of getting injured in the nhl then in the juniors BECAUSE it IS a MUCH HIGHER LEVEL (eg. players check smarter and more precisly then in the juniors)
quote:
Originally posted by colarox
A. there definetly IS more of a chance of getting injured in the nhl than in the juniors. it is a much higher level (eg. , and therefore players check harder-- so its easier to get injured)
go thrasher go!
I completely disagree. Yes they are better checkers, but the guys are much bigger and hit much harder. Also, having guys like Hollweg out there just adds to it. Dishing out hits can injure players as well, as we've seen in colaiacovo's case. Plus, checking isn't the only way to get injured, blocking shots causes many more injuries than hits, and, if anybody disagrees that NHLers have harder shots than juniors, they have no hockey sense.
Ellis or Renne....
ELLIS
Go Preds Go! |
| MSC |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 15:16:21
I think this line of though is wrong. In the NHL you are playing against more experianced players who have been around the league. These players are in fact better checkers, and for the most part a good check has less chance of injury then a kid in juniors just throwing his weight around not using proper technique, form or respect. Therefore, there definatly IS LESS of a chance of getting injured in the nhl then in the juniors BECAUSE it IS a MUCH HIGHER LEVEL (eg. players check smarter and more precisly then in the juniors)
quote:
Originally posted by colarox
A. there definetly IS more of a chance of getting injured in the nhl than in the juniors. it is a much higher level (eg. , and therefore players check harder-- so its easier to get injured)
go thrasher go!
|
| Axey |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 14:43:54
This is a joke .. the whole organization is a joke
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
| ThorntonisTHEMAN |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 14:12:00
quote:
Originally posted by colarox
and im not saying that schenn doesnt deserve to play--and i know im starting an argument here, but i think hes their best defenceman"
You think he is the Leafs very best defenceman that they have? Of that he is playing better than any of their other defence? Cuz there is a big difference. |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/30/2008 : 14:02:21
A. there definetly IS more of a chance of getting injured in the nhl than in the juniors. it is a much higher level (eg. , and therefore players check harder-- so its easier to get injured)
B.and slozo, we are basically looking at the bottle as half empty and half full...but i still believe that he is benching the bad players,rather than your opinion, that he's letting the good players play--a lot more and different players would be and should be benched
you said hes rotating defencemen-no, clearly not--the same ones have played the last 5 games
benching colaiacovo for THIS long has been deserved?!
and im not saying that schenn doesnt deserve to play--and i know im starting an argument here, but i think hes their best defenceman
go thrasher go! |
| n/a |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 10:24:43
colarox - Ron Wilson is not "benching a player every game" - he is putting on the ice the best team he can, while rotating around a few defencemen.
I like Ron Wilson so far, actually - he hasn't been afraid to bench a floater like Blake, he hasn't been afraid to call people out and make them accountable, and he has been developing our youth nicely from what I can tell so far. Benching Coli has been deserved - he was floating! Well, in some ways that's been made easier, because of the outstanding play of Luke Schenn . . .
Which brings me to PhillyFan12 - you're wrong. Luke Schenn most definitely IS an amazing player. At 18 turning 19, he is a defenceman that has been much better than average as a rookie, playing lots of minutes in crucial situations. That to me is amazing, and well beyond any expectations I ever had for the kid.
Now if only that asshat Fletcher would spend some money on a franchise player, we'd have the beginnings of a real team here . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
| MSC |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 10:13:29
I fail to see the logic in sending a player to the minors to avoid an injury....I'm not extremely current on the Minor Leagues but I find it hard to believe that there aren't any injuries down there. Do they play with special gear that prevents anyone in the minors from getting hurt?
Grab a clue, you have just as much chance of getting hurt in the minors, maybe even more depending on how many minutes you're playing. |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 10:13:10
what is the rule of how long you can be a healthy scratch for?(at a certain point what will happen to colaiacovo if he stays benched for so long?)
go thrasher go! |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 10:10:30
sorry, continued...
speaking of specific players, heres what i think they should do with them
kaberle ,van ryn, finger,colaiacovo,frogren,kubina should play
white should be either put on the marlies, waived or traded--whatever is faster
schenn--should be sent back to kelowna, no matter how great he is--the leafs have a history of injuring yuong players--although i understand(and agree ) with all the reasons to keep him, and why he'd be a great player to build the team around. either way, sometime he may get injured , and then the leafs are going to be , lets just say, even( in a) worse (situation) than now
and stralman--while i have nothing against him, should be put on the marlies for alittle while longer, even though he is good enough to play on the leafs
|
| colarox |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 09:54:32
personnaly , i dont like it
have you noticed that theyre benching colaiacovo more than any player--wilson said it wouldnt be that way-i think they should pick 6 dmen already, as it is making some players angry at the coach and the team--and who wants that
go thrasher go! |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 16:59:14
to be honest kinda like this benchin people. i mean with maurice guys have bad games he just lets it go. but maybe if wilson starts becnhing them for a game for sucking then maybe they'll learn something and try a little harder.
Leafsfan_94
|
| brentrock2 |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 14:57:08
Said Yes but not amazing |
| Canucks Man |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 14:50:49
I think it does a good job to show that no one person is above the team. I also think Toronto bringing in a no nonsense coach like Wilson was a great idea, the team needs to no they need to win and that just because they will sell out the game regarless its not ok to lose.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
|
| PhillyFan12 |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 14:06:54
i said yes but not amazing |
| J-Dog |
Posted - 10/27/2008 : 18:21:37
I think benching players when they aren't playing as well as they can or as hard as they can, is a good idea. However benching players on a consistent basis is wrong. Because obviously they aren't going to bench the guys playing on the first line (although in Toronto's case, they probably should). Would Sundin get benched? I think not! And if not everyone is being benched, it's not fair. And if everyone IS being benched, its still not fair, because they could be playing well. Plus, how can we tell they are being benched at the same rate, there might be a glitch in the system, its aLL a conspiracy! You see, it gets complicated and useless, it will lose its impact on the players if its a usual happening.
On another note:
I had a look at the article on the web site posted above and its not really benching players, they are 9 capable players and there are only 6 spots. Some will rotate the last few spots but I'm sure the deserving players will always dress...so that only gives us Schenn for now. |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/27/2008 : 15:53:20
hah, nashville preds, lol(colaiacovo)
go thrasher go! |
| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 09:26:13
How do you think Colaiacovo felt? He probably thought the term "healthy" scratch was an oxymoron.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
| nashvillepreds |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 07:41:09
I think it's a great idea. When your team plays like crap, you have to teach them to play better. His players have to earn the right to play. I'm glad to see he isn't afraid to bench a few players, although I'm not happy to see colaiacovo get benched, I thought he was one of the leafs best players.
Ellis or Renne....
ELLIS
Go Preds Go! |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:32:48
The only person who has played well enough to cement a top spot has been Luke Schenn! lol
LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE!!! |
| Guest9836 |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 09:32:37
What's he supposed to do, there's too many players on the team and it's not like only a couple of them are marginal. When you have a team of 5&6th type d-men and 3rd&4th line forwards, you might as well pick the names out of a hat. No one has played strongly enough to be seen as safe. |
| Leafsfan_94 |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 18:03:43
i dont know, he should be benchin bad players like ponikarovsky, jamal mayers, not like stajan and some of their good players
Leafsfan_94
|
| Porkchop73 |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 16:43:29
i say yes but not an amazing way to coach, depending on the player it could make the player try harder to stay in the line up or it could have the opposite effect and bring a player down on themselves. Some players can handle it ,some can't. Until the leafs fix their numbers game on defence it is wilsons best tactic for short term. Hopefullly for leaf fans they can trade a few for future picks or blue chip prospects. I would like to see Stajan respond better from his benching because he can play well when he wants to. |
| colarox |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 13:01:13
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/519800
go thrasher go! |
