| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest5221 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 08:37:12
That guy always was teh penalty kill for the KIngs and Rangers?
Just curious if he ever blocked a shot?
I have no idea why he killed penalties. He was appalling in his own end.
Ego thing? More SH goals for his 61 records?
No wonder he never coudl lead his team to the Cup w/o Messier.
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| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 21:47:48
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
While the question is, was Gretzky a great penalty killer, by and large we are talking about his defensive abilities. Here is a stat that speaks to his effort in that regard. He has the highest even strength goals against since they started recording this in 1968. He has 2285 esga in his career.
But yeah, his defensive abilities are definitely under rated.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
This stat misses a lot of important points. First, he played big minutes every game for a lot of seasons.
Second, Gretzky played most of his minutes in an era where an 8-5 game was commonplace. It's why Grant Fuhr is a Hall of Famer with a GAA of 3.48.
If a goalie has a 3.48 GAA now, he'll be playing back-up for some minor pro league in Denmark next year.
Defensively Gretzky was not a liability, but I'm not saying he was awesome either. He was average or a little below (but that was all right, he also scored a little, so it wasn't his main role).
The best point made was the one regarding his intelligenace - that's what the PK is all about.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Gretz |
| fly4apuckguy |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 21:37:53
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2882
Gretzky was the most intelliigent player to play the game and the penalty kill is about reading the pp set up & player tendencies. Two things that Gretzky did instinctively. Playing on the kill also allowed him to be on the ice without a shadow.
A brilliant response. Could not have said it better myself. I agree 100% with all of that.
Don't underestimate intelligence. Intelligence trumps speed any day. Maxim Afinogenov is unbelievably fast, but is he a better player than, say, Briere or Drury? He was a healthy scratch this playoff year for a reason. He's dumb.  I know that's not nice, but oh well.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Gretz |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 19:08:17
Willus, I think that ESGA stat is not incredibly relevant. I would like to see the 10 worst ESGA players and see who many players from the 80's and/or players from the Oilers in the 80's. It was a run and gun league. Can you fault a player for the era he is playing in?? Same as people saying that Crosby is at a disadvantage chasing Gretzky's records in a lower scoring era.
I still stand by the fact that he was a good penalty killer because of his vision of the game and his ability to be in the right place at the right time, as well as the fact he was still very dangerous offensively on the PK which more than likely made the other teams PP strategy different. |
| willus3 |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 20:46:11
While the question is, was Gretzky a great penalty killer, by and large we are talking about his defensive abilities. Here is a stat that speaks to his effort in that regard. He has the highest even strength goals against since they started recording this in 1968. He has 2285 esga in his career.
But yeah, his defensive abilities are definitely under rated.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Guest5221 |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 17:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by GOWINGS19
they guy saw the ice better than anyone what coach would keep that off the ice...and its becoming incredibly annoying how you belligerently hound gretzky everytime his name is raised 5221
"I don’t need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals." -Vladmir Konstantinov
ummm....Actually, I started the thread....
And our granny would see the ice better than anyone if she was protected to that extent too.
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| GOWINGS19 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 21:19:21
they guy saw the ice better than anyone what coach would keep that off the ice...and its becoming incredibly annoying how you belligerently hound gretzky everytime his name is raised 5221
"I don’t need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals." -Vladmir Konstantinov |
| Guest2882 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 14:35:14
As far as Gretzky's skaing was concerned, he was deceptively faster than appeared. His stride rate may not be comparable to that of Samsonov's, he did not use his edges like Crosby or as efficiently as Orr, Niedermeyer or Coffey. But he always got it done while playing 25-35 minutes a game...... meaning his skating style was an aerobic vs anaeobic activity for him. Smart players "pick their ice"
The strongest statement for his superiority of the game.......the 5 or 6 Lester B awards. I don't remember what year but he won the Lester be one year with 90% of the the votes. |
| Guest2882 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 14:07:20
Gretzky was the most intelliigent player to play the game and the penalty kill is about reading the pp set up & player tendencies. Two things that Gretzky did instinctively. Playing on the kill also allowed him to be on the ice without a shadow.
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| Leafs Rock Planet |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 13:56:42
Yes this is true he was not the best skater on the ice but you can definetely not say that he wasnt a good skater.
Forecheck+Backcheck= Paycheck!!! |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 13:45:15
I agree with Willus, he was not a strong staker. And the reason why he was on the PK is that he was an incredibly smart player. He played decent positionally on defense. He was far from horrible on his own end. Also, having Gretzky on the PK kept the other team on their twos, as an ill advised pass would turn into a 2 on 1 and normally ended up in the back of the net for a short handed goal.
And how can you call it ego. Isn't it the coach who decides who is on the PK???
And what does Gretzky playing on the PK have to do with him not winning a Cup after he left the Oilers?? |
| willus3 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 12:41:07
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs Rock Planet
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5221
Gretzky was the slowest player in the NHL except for March by 1990.
Gretzky was not fast at all? Was the slowest player in the NHL? What are you seriously talking about. Are you actually segesting that Wayne Gretzky was not a fast skater!
Forecheck+Backcheck= Paycheck!!!
I will. Gretzky was never a good skater. I'm not bashing him when I say that either. He always looked like he was about to fall over because he lost his balance. He was one of the slower Oilers. He was very shifty on his skates, probably because he was not fast. That's a true story.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Leafs Rock Planet |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 12:30:03
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5221
Gretzky was the slowest player in the NHL except for March by 1990.
Gretzky was not fast at all? Was the slowest player in the NHL? What are you seriously talking about. Are you actually segesting that Wayne Gretzky was not a fast skater!
Forecheck+Backcheck= Paycheck!!! |
| Guest5221 |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 11:23:58
Gretzky was the slowest player in the NHL except for March by 1990. |
| Leafs Rock Planet |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 09:43:30
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5221
That guy always was teh penalty kill for the KIngs and Rangers?
Just curious if he ever blocked a shot?
I have no idea why he killed penalties. He was appalling in his own end.
Ego thing? More SH goals for his 61 records?
No wonder he never coudl lead his team to the Cup w/o Messier.
Im not so sure that it was an ego thing. If you think about it, most penalty killers have some sort of speed. Gretzky was a fast skater, nobody can denie that, so this could be a reason he was on the PK.
Also his hockey intelligence. He would know where, when, and how to dump the puck down the ice.
Definetely not an EGO thing.
Forecheck+Backcheck= Paycheck!!! |
