| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| andyhack |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 16:28:01
My last post in the What if thread got me thinking about this. Looking at the finalists in particular, but also generally at the calibre of opposition in the years in question, which of the three dynasties below would you say had the most difficult opposition? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 18:43:07
You make some good points andyhack, I thought I would just show how teams dominated, or not during the regular season, but we all know that the best regular season team does not always win the Cup.
When some players hit the playoffs they elevate their game, how many of those players were on the teams that played in the finals?
When you look at the players that were on the Minnesota team of 81, most people would be hard pressed too evan have heard of half the players...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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| OILINONTARIO |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 17:35:31
Ooh, I like it. I won't disagree, but many will. Watch out for the Gretzky crowd. The Lindros trade deserves consideration. Esposito, Dionne, Messier, Sawchuck, Jagr, and on and on. Could be a good thread. |
| andyhack |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 17:17:31
Thanks for the stats Pucknuts.
I am going to stick to my first thoughts on this - that the 70s contenders were the strongest of the bunch and therefore the late 70s Habs had the toughest competition for the Cup. Even though Pucknut's stats seem to be saying there may have been a few more stronger teams for the 80s dynasties to contend with, and that the Habs may have had a slightly easier time of it during the regular season, I still feel that the top three contenders in the 70s were better than the top three contenders which the 80s dynasties had to deal with (I agree with Willus's last post on this, but go a step further and say the '70s Flyers were better than the 80s Flyers - and I forgot how good the late 70s Sabres were too).
If you guys are right though, and the Islanders had the toughest competition, it really puts that much more focus on the Goring trade (which triggered this thread for me) doesn't it. I mean, if their competition was that good, then presumably without that key addition, there may not have been an Islanders dynasty. I don't know if we have done a poll on trades here, but it sounds to me that if you guys are right, the trade for Butch Goring may very well have been, bar none, the most significant trade in the history of hockey.
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| PuckNuts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 14:02:14
1976-79 4 seasons
Rnk............Team.............Points... Average.. Won Fin
1 Montreal 503 126 76,77,78,79
2 NY Islanders 434 109
3 Boston.. 432 108 77,78
4 Philadelphia 430 108 76
5 Buffalo 402 101
6 Atl Flames 339 85
7 Toronto 337 84
8 Los Angeles 325 81
9 Pittsburgh 316 79
10 NY Rangers 303 76 79
1980-83 4 seasons
Rnk............Team.............Points... Average.. Won Fin
1 Montreal 417 104
2 NY Islanders 415 104 80,81,82,83
3 Philadelphia 406 102 80
4 Boston.. 398 100
5 Buffalo 391 98
6 Min N Stars 365 91 81
7 Edmonton 360 90 83
8 Chicago 341 85
9 NY Rangers 332 83
10 Atl Flames 328 82
11 St Louis 324 81
12 Los Angeles 302 76
13 Quebec.. 301 75
14 Vancouver 298 75 82
1984-88 4 seasons
Rnk............Team.............Points... Average.. Won Fin
1 Edmonton 433 108 84,85,87,88
2 Philadelphia 396 99 85,87
3 Calgary 376 94
4 Washington 373 93
5 Boston.. 365 91 88
6 Montreal 364 91
7 NY Islanders 360 90 84
The 70's Canadiens were the most dominant, then the late 80's Oilers,and then the Islanders.
The team with the toughest opposition, I think would have been the Islanders of the early 80's, the standings were a little more balanced...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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| willus3 |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 11:41:31
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Do you guys think that the fact the top 5-6 teams in the late 70's having a high point total means that the teams in the 80's means the league was tougher through the 80's or that the good teams were better through the 70's??
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997.
I really wasn't sure at first on this Beans. Good question. But the I got to thinking and started to compare the top teams on the list to themselves by decade. Here's how I see it.
70's Montreal better than 80's Montreal
70's Boston better than 80's Boston
70's Philly = 80's Philly
70's Islanders = 80's Islanders (yes I do think so)
70's Buffalo better than 80's Buffalo
I'm still not 100% sure but after comparing the top teams like that I'd say the 70's teams were just better hence the higher season totals.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 10:58:48
Do you guys think that the fact the top 5-6 teams in the late 70's having a high point total means that the teams in the 80's means the league was tougher through the 80's or that the good teams were better through the 70's??
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 09:42:54
From 1975 to 1979 5 seasons
Team--------- Total Points---- Average
Montreal------------ 616-------- 123
Philadelphia--------- 543-------- 109
Boston------------- 526--------- 105
NY Islanders-------- 522-------- 104
Buffalo-------------- 515-------- 103
These are regular season standings total points and average points per year, all other teams were below 430 total points, and below 90 average points.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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| willus3 |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 09:22:45
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
Willus, who were the real powerhouses in the early 80s? I'm not questioning your choice so much as trying to recall who were the great teams of that era.
As you can see from Pucknuts stats the strongest teams were in the East. Edmonton is the only team there from the west.
Philly was always tough. They were so close a few times.
If you look at Edmonton's path to the cup every year versus New York's, Edmonton had the easier route.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| willus3 |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 09:17:16
quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
early eighty's 1980 to 1985 6 years
Team------- Total Pts-------- Average
Philadelphia------ 617------------- 103
NY Islanders----- 605------------- 101
Edmonton------- 588------------- 98
Montreal-------- 586------------- 98
Boston---------- 584------------- 97
Buffalo---------- 584------------- 97
These are regular season standings total points and average points per year, all other teams were below 515 total points, and below 90 average points.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
Great stats Pucknuts. Any chance you can do the same for the latter half of the 70's?
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 08:14:17
I will go along with the Islanders also, it has to be more difficult to establish a dynasty with more teams in the league. Yes that means that there are more “weaker teams”, but when you look at Minnesota, and Vancouver in the finals in the early 80’s that shows that any team has the chance to win the Cup…
And Beans I like your new Sig…
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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| Beans15 |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 07:58:29
I agree with Willus (for a change) that the Islanders had it the toughest. To have to deal with the late 70's Canadiens and the Early 80's Oilers in thier time. Not to mention the Bruins and Flyers that were solid for almost 2 decades. And for your comment about the late 70's Bruins or Flyers winning Cups in other eras. I think the same can be said for the Bruin and Flyer teams that ran into the mid-80's Oilers. Put those teams in the mid-90's and I believe they are winning Cups.
My vote is the Islanders. To have to face arguably the 2 strongest dynasty's in the Canadiens in their twilight and the Oilers in the begins is a tough road to travel.
If you are under the age of 15, please do some research before you make a post about anything pre-1997. |
| PuckNuts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 07:55:02
early eighty's 1980 to 1985 6 years
Team------- Total Pts-------- Average
Philadelphia------ 617------------- 103
NY Islanders----- 605------------- 101
Edmonton------- 588------------- 98
Montreal-------- 586------------- 98
Boston---------- 584------------- 97
Buffalo---------- 584------------- 97
These are regular season standings total points and average points per year, all other teams were below 515 total points, and below 90 average points.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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| andyhack |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 06:46:38
Willus, who were the real powerhouses in the early 80s? I'm not questioning your choice so much as trying to recall who were the great teams of that era.
I remember in the late '70s the Bruins, Flyers and Isles were all very strong teams, strong enough perhaps to win a cup in another era (which didn't have those frigg'n great Habs in it!). The Isles had a bit of choking problem, yes, but they already had a pretty awesome roster. The Flyers and Bruins of those years were very very tough. The problem is after that, I guess. The Leafs were "okay" and there were maybe one or two other "okay" teams" but after that one could argue that there wasn't so much parity in the rest of the league.
As for the Oiler years, there were some strong teams (Calgary, Boston, Philly) but not sure if they match up to those great contenders of the 70s. There may have been a little more parity by then, though. What do you think?
I was gonna vote for the 70s but wanna hear a few opinions first and read up a bit on those eras.
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| willus3 |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 17:43:04
I would say the Islanders had the toughest competition.
The Canadiens next and then the Oilers.
That's taking into account the whole playoff run though, not just the finals.
At the risk of sounding like Chooch, the western conference generally was weaker back then.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
| andyhack |
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 17:33:08
The finalists in those years were:
Habs
1976 - Flyers (Clarke-led Broad Street Bullies swept in four)
1977 - Bruins (Cherry's Big Bad Bs swept in four)
1978 - Bruins (Park, Ratelle, Middleton and co. take the Habs to six)
1979 - Rangers (but really the Bruins again in the famous semi-final)
Isles
1980 - Flyers (team that went 35 games without a loss in the season)
1981 - North Stars (a young Bobby Smith led this cinderella team)
1982 - Canucks (another cinderella opponent - Roger and the white flag)
1983 - Oilers (a not quite ready dynasty in the making)
Oilers
1984 - Isles (starting to age a bit, but still a pretty strong opponent)
1985 - Flyers (P. Lindbergh on a team that led the reg season standings)
1987 - Flyers (Hextall, Tochett, Poulin, Tim Kerr take the Oilers to 7)
1988 - Bruins (Bourque & Neely but otherwise not close to the Oilers) |
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