| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest2789 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 10:18:39
I think Crosby has proved...just scoring goals does not make you the ultimate player....you gotta have heart...Ovi doesn't. |
| 28 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| irvine |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 16:41:12
This topic pops up once a month. Sid or Alex. (And that's this site alone.)
Both players are superb. Both will continue to progress in their careers, barring injury. (hopefully not for either) and as fans, we'll all continue to enjoy the action of Sid vs Ovie. While being slightly jealous, none of us will ever be as good on the ice as either of them. ;)
Enjoy the show guys, because it has an expiry date. Get it while it's hot.
Irvine/prez. |
| Guest9494 |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:12:55
PATRICK ROY |
| Hugh G. Rection |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:05:03
So you're saying that Lemieux's penguins were always good when he was on them? For the entire first part of his career, this wasn't the case. Gretzky too, once he left Edmonton. No matter what you say, Gretzky was infinitely more dominant than Crosby ever will be, and even he couldn't bring average LA Kings, St Louis Blues or NYR teams over the hump. If their careers were over, it would be one thing, but with one at 22 and one at 24, let's not label one a winner and one a loser just yet. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:53:19
There is a reason that crosby is always on good teams, its because he is on them. The kid is a natural leader, makes the players around him better and forces the opposition to play their best against him which opens up the ice for the rest of his teammates. Sure having Malkin, Staal etc helps, but OV has great players around him as well and hasnt been able to win.
Im sure given time OV will win a cup or a gold but for now crosby has his number.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Leafs81 |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 11:40:07
Of course single players can't win championship. But when two players are compared like Crosby and Ovechkin and they are both top players then you look at who as won and who didn't. I mean to determine a great player you need to win at every level. Crosby is now showing he can win, he's doing everything to win. Like somebody said, it's not just about scoring goals and putting points on the score sheet. Backchecking, winning faceoffs, leadership, winning battles, blocking shots. Crosby is the whole package, he did have good olympics, many other players were worst then him. Crosby expectations is to dominate, do you realize how hard it is to dominate the Olympics????
Although I agree one winning goal doesn't determine who's better. Ovechkin is the most exiting player in the NHL and he plays with heart. Crosby is becoming the most complete player in the NHL and he's winning.
And right now the last laugh goes to Crosby, until Ovechkin wins a cup and a gold medal, which he will probably do during his career. |
| Hugh G. Rection |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:38:52
When will people realize winning at a team sport doesn't prove you are a better player than someone who doesn't, it proves your 'team' is better.
Not many argue Gretzky is the best ever, but he never won a single cup after he left Edmonton, and was surrounded by greats like Messier, Coffey, Kurri, etc. He came close once with LA, but couldn't do it.
If you look at Lemieux as well, he didn't even make the playoffs the first 6 or 7 years (too lazy to look it up) he was in the league. It was only when he had greats like Jagr, Mullen and company that he started winning cups.
Single players can't win cups or championships on their own, no matter how good they are. Crosby is an elite NHL player, definitely one of the best. But he has also been part of elite teams his entire career. The WJC team he was on was possibly the best in that tournament ever.
In Pittsburgh he has one of the other top 3 players in the league (Malkin), as well as two of the most underrated young stars in the league (Staal and Fleury). Needless to say, the team Canada he was on wasn't too bad either. So when comparing two guys, I don't really buy the 'one has won, the other hasn't; argument', unless of course one guy is known for becoming invisible in the playoffs (like a Thornton/Yashin type player). This isn't the case with either of these guys. |
| Guest9494 |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:25:13
Agreed Ovie put back the passion and energy of what a true hockey player should be like. |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 08:11:55
quote:
Originally posted by bounty2k3
He's done more for the game than Crosby ever has or ever will.
Hahahahaha, good one
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| bounty2k3 |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 21:39:37
Let's not get started on Gretzky please. We all know Lemieux was the better player.
I dont like Crosby to be honest. As Beans said, right place at the right time. Ovechkin has more flash and skates like the wind. Doesnt really play the team game that I really like to see, but he throws more hits and shoots the puck a lot more. He's done more for the game than Crosby ever has or ever will.
GO HAWKS GO!!! |
| Guest7625 |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 10:05:21
All it proved to me, is that there is no player in the world today that can rise to the occasion like Wayne Gretzky did in every international tournament he ever played in. |
| Guest8701 |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:15:39
Head to head
09 Playoffs
WJC
Olympics
Crosby 3 - OV - 0 |
| Matt_Roberts85 |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:51:34
I think Mike Babcock said it best when he described Crosby as the "ultimate 200 ft player". Most people dont really notice just how hard Sid backchecks, this is what seperates him from a player like Ovechkin. Sid may not have been on the scoresheet in the games against russia or slovakia but he tied up his man in slot and finished his checks along the wall and got the puck out of the zone as well as ANY player on team canada.
he is the total package, it isnt just about waiting at the red line for a breakout pass so you can strut your stuff offensivley, the man knows what needs to be done in crunch time. He has shown leadership well beyond his age and is further ahead of guys like gretz and lemeiux at the same age in that department in my opinion.
OV is an amazing talent and the most exciting player to watch, but I dont think he is quite the total package of offence, defence and leadership like Crosby is. Not to mention OV is a full 2 years older.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 08:10:33
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2211
i totally agree with guest 9494....i watch a lot of hockey and its been a long time since ive seen some1 with on ice VISION as i saw in P.Kane during this tourn....amazing. Wont be long before he is leading the NHL in scoring.
Patrick Kane is an incredibly gifted and talented player who sees the ice better than many perhaps. He is likely a top 10-15 scorer in the NHL for many years to come. However, if he's leading the scoring title for the NHL at any point, my guess would be it'd be in the first half of a season. As much as i respect his skills, i don't see him ever winning the scoring title as long as guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, etc are around. Yeah, it's possibly, but IMO, it won't happen...... |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 07:46:13
I gotta say that regardless of which player it was who scored the goal; we would be talking about that specific player in Canadian folklore, not the entire team.
Paul Henderson anyone?? By all accounts his less than 500 pts and less than 250 goals in 700+ career games. He did have a standout Summit Series, but no one talks at all or in many cases don't know that he has 3 consecutive game winning goals and tied Esposito with the most goals in the tourney.
He made his career in a span of 4 seconds in '72. Same thing would have happened here if it were Morrow or Seabrook or Bergeron who had scored the goal.
I don't think as many people would have pinned the blame on Crosby (if they would have lost) based on the breakaway chance. I think far more people, if picking a singular event, would pick the puck that fell out of Luongo's glove with less than a minute left just before the Parise tying goal.
But I do completely agree that it was not one player that won. It was a collective effort of all the players. Crosby just happened to finish it.
|
| Guest2211 |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 07:40:40
i totally agree with guest 9494....i watch a lot of hockey and its been a long time since ive seen some1 with on ice VISION as i saw in P.Kane during this tourn....amazing. Wont be long before he is leading the NHL in scoring. |
| Hugh G. Rection |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 07:23:14
Listening to Bill Simmon's podcast yesterday was interesting, as you saw a casual american observer's perspective on the game. He was talking with a big time Penguins/Crosby fan who was American, and they were discussing the ultimate internal struggle a fan has to make. Do you cheer for your country or your team's captain/favourite player?
What's funny is that both agreed if the US had come all the way back to win- Crosby would have been a goat. He gets a breakaway up a goal with a couple of minutes left and botches it completely, which would of course have iced the win. People would look at him as the reason Canada lost rather than the 'greatest ever blah blah blah'. Whether or not this would have been fair, this would have been the media response. Instead, he's now part of 'Canadian folklore' according to tsn at least.
The sad part about him being the hero was that it takes away from the solid team effort Canada put forth. No one player won this gold medal, it was contributions from all of them, including Crosby. As a fan of this team, I would have preferred Crosby scored one of the first two goals and not the clincher strictly because of the ludicrous media response. Had someone like Morrow/Nash/Heatley/Whoever scored, we wouldn't just be talking about one of the players, we'd talk about all of them.
Say what you want about Crosby, but if he's not on last year's Pittsburgh team and team Canada 2010, he is still without a gold medal or a stanley cup. He was a key component on two excellent championship teams, not the entire reason for their success. |
| ryan93 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 20:20:16
I've always been a firm believer that Crosby is a better all-around player than Ovechkin, and i still stand by that.
The Olympics did nothing to change my opinion on either player though. Crosby didn't have a bad tournament, in fact by times he was one of Canada's best players, but honestly he didn't have as good of an Olympics as i kind of expected him to. Sure he scored the overtime winner in the biggest game which is no small feat, but he really didn't have that great of a game against the US.
I thought there were betters players the last 3/4 games than Sid, Ryan Getzlaf comes to mind, but again, that doesn't change my opinion on Sid either, to me he's the best player in the world. |
| Guest9951 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 18:52:36
Crosby didnt even have a good game... if you watched it again he was invisible besides that breakaway that he was gone from the redline and barely got a shot, and that goal that he got |
| Guest9494 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 18:51:00
I think Kane pretty much showed he is the best player in the world excellent vision and speed I wish Oilers could pick up this guy I would even considering giving up Gagner and Hemsky my favourite players just to get him |
| impropriety |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:58:35
Let me get this straight... scoring goals (multiple) does not a great player make, but scoring a goal (singular) is really what defines a player? I think you're a little confused... |
| HawkinOilCountry |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:32:13
Proves nothing, Ovie and Sid are the two greatest players on the ice today. Were both given the same chances, both would do amazing things. My personal favorite is Ovechkin, I like his style. What he does off the ice has no bearing on my opinion.
No one can satisfactorialy prove to me that one is better than the other. Yes Crosby has the Cup Ring and the Medal, but he likely wouldn't have either if he was playing for any teams other than Pittsburgh 2009 and Team Canada 2010.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
| Hugh G. Rection |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:26:58
Do we really need to make this topic over yet again? Tournament proved nothing except Canada was the best over a two-week span. Earth-shattering stuff. Crosby was average to below average for team Canada overall, just happened to pot the winner. Russia and Ovechkin looked good until they ran into a brick wall and got owned. All I can say is bettman needs to rig Washington/Pitt eastern final to keep this momentum hockey has going. |
| tbar |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 13:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Although I am a huge Pro of the Crosby is better arguement, one can not make a judgement based on a 6 game tournament and even more so on one goal.
This tells us nothing more than Crosby was in the right place at the right time and made a great play.
Does Ovechkin not do the same given the opportunity??
Well he might give up his shot if somebody is filiming him  |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 13:05:29
Although I am a huge Pro of the Crosby is better arguement, one can not make a judgement based on a 6 game tournament and even more so on one goal.
This tells us nothing more than Crosby was in the right place at the right time and made a great play.
Does Ovechkin not do the same given the opportunity?? |
| leigh |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 12:01:31
Don't forget Iginla, Parise and Luongo; these fellas played like they were on a mission!
Personally I don't think that Crosby played badly at all. He wasn't scoring much but neither were a lot of the best players in the league. His work ethic was there every shift and in the end it resulted in him scoring the biggest goal in the tournament and arguably one of the biggest goals in Canadian hockey history - right up there with Henderson, Lemieux, and Sakic.
Personally I think it is really hard to argue who is better between Ovechkin and Crosby, they are both amazing in different ways. I don't buy this "Russians don't have heart" garbage...especially with Ovechkin - his heart is massive! I've never seen a player in the NHL openly love the game and his country more than him. |
| Guest9836 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 11:33:25
I agree, I don't think this tournament proved anything about these two as individual players (let's keep personalities out of it). It only proved that Canada was the better team on the whole.
If you want ot talk about stand out individuals then we should be talking about Toews, Nash, Rafalski, Miller and a couple of the Slovaks. |
| Guest4651 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 11:13:26
personally Crosby played like crap, thank god he scored. Ovi also played like crap. they are both great players in different ways. give it a rest! |
| Guest2211 |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 11:10:04
These russian players come over here, make a s**t load of money, and lay back, (most of them anyway). Thet havent the same outlook on the game as north amercian players. Russians havent played any TEAM CONCEPT hockey since the days of the Red Army. Just a team of skill and bloated EGO`S. Build my NHL team outside of them anyday.. |
