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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2010 : 11:37:37
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I agree with you Beans15 they will win the series on Saturday NOW BRING HOME THE CUP SAN JOSE
'' GO SHARKS GO '' |
Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 04/23/2010 11:38:48 |
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 13:01:42
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Ha Ha to everybody who thought the Sharks would go out in the first round they could sweep the Wing's tommorow
GO SHARKS GO |
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 13:06:46
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Oh and Jumbo Joe has 8 points that is more than Holmstrom,Hossa and Plekanec so Ha Ha Thornton is not the worst playoff superstar in the league
GO SHARKS GO |
Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 05/05/2010 13:08:24 |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 05/06/2010 : 10:24:51
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He's definately been better than past years, it's a different Sharks team for sure.
But don't compare him to Holmstrom, Hossa and Plekanec. He's a top 10 player in the league, he should be producing somewhere in the range of Zetty, Dats, the Sedins, Malkin, and just below the pace of the Crosby's and Ovechkins. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 11:22:12
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Jumbo Joe Rocks - take heed of Guest 9818, because he's correct. Thornton hasn't been "rocking" so much as "strumming folk tunes" . . . he's been just ok, from what I've seen.
From what I can tell, San Jose continues to win because of a very hot Pavelski, a very good Boyle, and the overall depth at all positions that puts their last defensive pairing and third/fourth lines a step above their opponent's.
Wait until they play a hungry team with a goalie that isn't a rookie . . . either Vancouver, or maybe Pittsburgh in the finals.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 16:36:05
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Ya, I gotta completely agree. Joe is getting his point, but he really is playing a secondary role on the team right now. Pavalski's line is the big guns. And as Slozo said, Boyle has been playing amazing as well.
Let's not forget Nabokov, who has the best GAA of any goalie left in the Playoffs, 4th best save %, and has won 6 games in a row and 7 of the last 9.
Remember everyone saying how Nabokov wasn't even a top 10 goalie in the league because he didn't perform in the playoffs?? He has not let in a soft goal since that 1 in a million Boyle clearing shot.
Ultimately, Thornton is part of the success, but far from a key to the playoff success to this point.
That being said, the play in OT to make the 2 on 1 and pass to Marleau nearly perfectly, he is still a pretty special player. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 18:11:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Let's not forget Nabokov, who has the best GAA of any goalie left in the Playoffs, 4th best save %, and has won 6 games in a row and 7 of the last 9.
Even after tonight?  Anyone see this one coming? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 21:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Let's not forget Nabokov, who has the best GAA of any goalie left in the Playoffs, 4th best save %, and has won 6 games in a row and 7 of the last 9.
Even after tonight? Anyone see this one coming?
Did you watch the game??? Until he was pulled, most of the goals Nabokov was hung out to dry on.
Even the leaker that went off Douglas Murray's skate would be tough to blame on Nabokov.
The whole SJ team played like Crap tonight. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 21:24:30
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Nope, and i wasn't trying to undermine your thought on his performance thus far as i'm in agreement he's been beyond solid! Still think he should have stopped the Boyle blast though
I was only kidding as it was ironic that they got blown out tonight after you made the comment!  |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:20:36
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lol. Don't you hate it when teams don't back up your talk on hockey boards...
Detroit definately had at least one in them, I wonder if Franzen blew his whole load in one game. SJ is probably so unused to being in this position, they just relaxed with the 3-0 lead, and Detroit schooled them on why you can't do that. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:38:31
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Detroit will definitely get confidence with their win, but maybe too much?
I think that the blowout win for Detroit is the perfect situation for SJ. They know exactly what they did wrong, and will be angry for being so embarrassed. Detroit may be slightly over confident(though they are very experienced and should know otherwise).
I think SJ will get the next game in a close one, maybe OT?
Besides, how many teams have come back from a 0-3 deficit? Was it not 2? Toronto came back from a 3-0 deficit against DET to win the cup 4-3 in 1942, and the NY Islanders came back to win the series 4-3 in 1975. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:55:05
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I don't think anyone expected SJ to sweep Detroit - like others said, I think Det had one in them, and they certainly got it last night with emphasis.
I too think they blew their entire load last night, and SJ will win in 5 or 6 as I predicted |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
Besides, how many teams have come back from a 0-3 deficit? Was it not 2? Toronto came back from a 3-0 deficit against DET to win the cup 4-3 in 1942, and the NY Islanders came back to win the series 4-3 in 1975.
That's right. That means it is due time for it to happen again. The NHL was formed in 1917 so it was 25 years before a team in the NHL had ever reached that feat. Then the Islanders did it in 75, that was 33 years later. That brings us to now 35 years later...it's due time, maybe not this year but in the next 5 years I hope we get to see such an accomplishment. I also hope it's the Leafs that repeat it.
Detroit isn't going down without a fight and I expect to see a game 6 back at the Joe. If it goes that far game 7 is going to be exhilarating.
When Hell freezes over, I'll play hockey there too. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 00:47:21
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| Well, i'll admit, the odds are stacked against them, but imagine the pressure on Sj if they don't wrap it up at home in game 5? Say all you want that they hold home ad for game 7, but face it, if Det can steal the next one, the pressure begins to mount on SJ and we've all seen what they've accomplished under pressure in the playoffs the past 4 or 5 years? |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 18:45:17
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| Even though san jose are done for the year i think they will have their turns soon in the next couple years they will take it down. |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 06:54:42
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given recent events with this team, i thought it was a good time to revive this topic and gets some good discussion going.
the big question: where do the Sharks go from here? or WHAT do they do from here?
a good portion of their core (Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, etc.) are all signed at least until the 16-17 season. only Dan Boyle is up for UFA this summer, and Niemi is UFA next summer.
do they shake up their roster and make a major move in the summer by trying to trade someone like Jumbo Joe?
do they fire the Coach?
fire the GM?
let's hear it people! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 09:57:30
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Having just signed the biggest names on the roster long term, I wasn't expecting someone to suggest blowing the team up this soon. I had suggested prior to the lead up to the post season that Thorton would be a good person to throw on the trade market. San Jose management disagreed and signed him long term shortly there after. I doubt Thorton or Marleau will be shopped unless a team makes a significant offer in return.
Coaching change seems possible, but this is a team, which a lot of the time can dominate for multiple game stretches, only to drop games when it matters most. I dont see that all on the coaches head.
Playoffs are a crapshoot at the best of time and there are a lot of veteran players on the roster now with lots of young up and coming talent. The Forwards, Defense and Goaltending seem strong. I don't know what big changes would get this team from post season disappointment to stanely cup winner, that they already don't have already. |
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CrockOShight
Top Prospect
95 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 13:06:57
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Why is it, that whenever a Team doesn't win the Stanley Cup, they need to "blow up" the team?
Do you know how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup? It's not easy man. There are 29 teams every season who don't win it. The Sharks have done a great job of just getting into the Playoffs - 10 years straight. Not too shabby.
And actually, they've had quite a bit of success in the Playoffs - making the Conference Finals 3 times, and making the Second Round 7 times in the last 10 Seasons.
So, they must be doing something right. Why blow it up because of some bad luck and a hot goaltender? Sit back, and take a longer look at it. They are actually a fairly successful team.
I say: Do nothing. They are a good team. McClellan is a good coach. Joe Thornton is a great leader. They will be back. Shark Attack. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 14:50:45
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Crock, showing some love! They your team for next season? 
I do agree that far too many teams (more specifically their fans and the media) go the "blow up" route. I guess when the pressure is on at times like this, teams tend to cave? FWIW, Wilson went on record today apparently saying something along the lines of "i'd like our coaches to be involved moving forward". Somewhat of a vote of confidence. So, if he is on the side of keeping Todd McLellen as coach, the only way that would likely change would be for "higher ups" to can them both! There was already talk around here about McLellen being in the running for the next Canucks coach! The guy's not even been fired!!! This talk even started before the collapse was complete! Latest talk, and this isn't a rumour, moreso just talk radio guys throwing ideas out there, was a package of both Wilson and MacLellen coming here to fill the GM and coach positions which are still available. Would be interesting. The Canucks would be getting two guys with experience, not just in their positions, but in the western conference too.
I have a feeling they won't can either, and will look at making a big change, be it Thornton or Marleau or someone like that? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2014 : 05:58:40
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quote:
Originally posted by CrockOShight
Why is it, that whenever a Team doesn't win the Stanley Cup, they need to "blow up" the team?
Do you know how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup? It's not easy man. There are 29 teams every season who don't win it. The Sharks have done a great job of just getting into the Playoffs - 10 years straight. Not too shabby.
And actually, they've had quite a bit of success in the Playoffs - making the Conference Finals 3 times, and making the Second Round 7 times in the last 10 Seasons.
So, they must be doing something right. Why blow it up because of some bad luck and a hot goaltender? Sit back, and take a longer look at it. They are actually a fairly successful team.
I say: Do nothing. They are a good team. McClellan is a good coach. Joe Thornton is a great leader. They will be back. Shark Attack.
I agree with almost 100%, Crock . . . unfortunately, there is a tipping point for this continually contending team that never makes it to a final. I think we are very, very close to the tipping point here . . . and the fact that it happened in the way it did - blowing a 3-0 series lead - only provides emphasis for some of the perceived failings.
I predict that Thornton OR Marleau are going to be shopped . . . and I think it has to be Thornton. And I don't think it'll be a blow up move at all - they could even make another 'sideways' deal for another player as well - but they need to change SOMETHING.
You'd still get very good value for a Thornton . . . and if San Jose is able to get a decent centre of 2nd line/3rd line value, plus a defenceman with upside . . . I think it's a smart deal.
I don't see a blow-up per se, BUT, I do see at least one big trade/deal for San Jose to make a sideways deal - value for value.
If I'm Toronto for instance . . . would I give up Bozak and Gardiner for a Thornton? Yep. Washington . . . give up a Grabovski and a Mike Green? Yep, done. Etc . . . lots of options out there, and lots of marginal playoff teams that would take a Thornton in a SECOND to put them over the top.
All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on! |
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CrockOShight
Top Prospect
95 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2014 : 13:00:42
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Omg Thornton on the Leafs would make my YEAR!! That would be AMAZING!!
Remember the 2010-2011 Bruins? They went up 3-0 against the Flyers in Round 2, only to eventually lose 4-3 in 7 games. Heart-breaking for Bruins' fans. There were thoughts of blowing up that team and firing Claude Julien. Imagine how much things would have changed in the League if the Bruins had fired Julien??
We all know what happened the next season...
...And look at them now...
It's not easy here for sure. But sometimes the best action is "do nothing". If I were the GM of the Sharks - or President or whatever - I would just simply sit on my hands, and do nothing. The window is still open for another 3-4 Seasons. After that, blow it up. But for now, stay the course. That's my thinking anyway.
...But Slozo, boy, have you ever got me thinking about Thornton in a Leafs' Jersey. Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh BOY!!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2014 : 08:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by CrockOShight
Omg Thornton on the Leafs would make my YEAR!! That would be AMAZING!!
Remember the 2010-2011 Bruins? They went up 3-0 against the Flyers in Round 2, only to eventually lose 4-3 in 7 games. Heart-breaking for Bruins' fans. There were thoughts of blowing up that team and firing Claude Julien. Imagine how much things would have changed in the League if the Bruins had fired Julien??
We all know what happened the next season...
...And look at them now...
It's not easy here for sure. But sometimes the best action is "do nothing". If I were the GM of the Sharks - or President or whatever - I would just simply sit on my hands, and do nothing. The window is still open for another 3-4 Seasons. After that, blow it up. But for now, stay the course. That's my thinking anyway.
...But Slozo, boy, have you ever got me thinking about Thornton in a Leafs' Jersey. Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh BOY!!!!
To be honest, this isn't the first time I predicted San Jose management to deal Thornton or Marleau. In fact, I may have predicted it two years ago, and I think I said Marleau at the time.
You could well be right . . . smart could be sitting on your hands, reaping in the rewards of perrenial playoff mediocrity, and always having an engaged fanbase for a team that always makes the playoffs. Even making one major "sideways" trade could upset the chemistry in this applecart, so there is always risk when tinkering with a very good team.
But yes - I'd look back at what Boston did, and use that as my template, if I'm San Jose management.
Tough, tough call either way. And any sideways deal would have to be just right.
All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2014 : 17:40:36
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Slozo, you are crazy if you think San Jose says Bozak and Gardiner are close to value. Throw in free Gatorade for a decade and you still havent come close to the value. Gardiner if shopped will go for a prospect or draft picks. Bozak is a dump and you know this. Im not saying either player is garbage because both have value but not as trade bait for a franchise centerman of a 100 point per season category. Thorton will draw a package on the level of what Gaborik or Nash brings. He's older but he is still bringing the heat. Drop him in Florida and they go from bottom rung to mid pack, instantly IMO.
Marleau might go for the package you suggested, because although his stats suggest he is a guy who can produce, IMO he is not of Thorton quality. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2014 : 17:48:45
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Mind you if you said Kadri and Gardiner or (and this would be my preference), Phaneuf, San Jose might take a good hard look. San Jose might look good on Phaneuf and Kadri would be a big enough draw to pull Thorton away. Toronto would be better for this as well, because although Kadri is a better center than Bozak, Thorton would immediately create a 2nd line which could compete with the first line with Kessel and Bozak, whomever Thorton plays with.
Gardiner would slot in on the powerplay in Phaneufs place, Phaneuf would add to the depth on D San Jose has and up the scary physical intimidation factor San Jose already has. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 05/08/2014 17:50:03 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 06:00:43
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Slozo, you are crazy if you think San Jose says Bozak and Gardiner are close to value. Throw in free Gatorade for a decade and you still havent come close to the value. Gardiner if shopped will go for a prospect or draft picks. Bozak is a dump and you know this. Im not saying either player is garbage because both have value but not as trade bait for a franchise centerman of a 100 point per season category. Thorton will draw a package on the level of what Gaborik or Nash brings. He's older but he is still bringing the heat. Drop him in Florida and they go from bottom rung to mid pack, instantly IMO.
Marleau might go for the package you suggested, because although his stats suggest he is a guy who can produce, IMO he is not of Thorton quality.
You are out of your mind NUTS if you think Bozak is a "dump". Wacko, bonkers, losing it.
Bozak has continually gotten better and better, is currently playing at what I would term is an "elite 2nd line centre value", albeit playing with a #1 elite winger in Kessel. And he's got a reasonable salary.
And Gardiner . . . he is still very coveted by a lot of teams.
But that's where I will end the conversation on those Leafs, as this topic is about the Yearly Playoff Meltdown in San Jose (love that title).
I disagree about who would get more, BTW - 2 years ago, you're right, Thornton get more value. But now, I think Marleau gets a slight edge.
- last few years, Thornton (despite being only 34) looks significantly slower, and has fallen a bit below a point per game pace.
- it doesn't look like Thornton will ever hit 20 goals again
Conversely,
- Marleau LOOKS like a 34 year old who is still in his prime in terms of foot speed, aggressiveness, etc. A key barometer of that Marleau was on the Olympic team; Thornton wasn't
- Marleau continues to be a 30 goal guy with 40 goal potential, and points-wise still looks to be at the apex of his career. Statistically, the downward slide always starts when the goals go down and assists go up slightly, changing the ratio of goals:assists dramatically.
And lastly, the kicker: Thornton has a reputation which Marleau currently doesn't. Thornton is seen now as a guy who couldn't do it in Boston, and can't do it on an even more stacked team in San Jose. Fair or unfair, it's Thornton who has this tag, and not Marleau.
All hail Canada`s team the Montreal Canadiens our hope for a Stanley Cup to come home to Canada is 2014! Keep Calm and Carey on! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 08:30:24
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I'm thinking you covet Goalscoring much more than an elite set up guy who can bank pucks off of pilons to create scoring chances. This was not a rag on Bozak, Gardiner or Marleau, just my opinion that the respect level given for Thortons return value has hit an all time low. Let me put it to you this way, in your dream scenerio Thorton goes for Bozak and Gardiner and plays on Kessel's line. I would put my money down that Kessel nets 50+ goals in 2014-15. Switch Marleau in that scenerio for of similar value and Kessel has no net increase in goal scoring, but Toronto gains another secondary scoring piece.
I think Bozak is great with Kessel, but like it or hate it he is not elite 2way and away from Kessel is not a #1. If magically slotted on Sanjose current lineup without removing a centerman, would be #3-4 centerman. Gardiner is coveted by other team's in your opinion, yet every year his name is out there as trade bait, later to lace it up for Toronto because management and fan based haven't put a lot of thought to his actual value, which is that of a prospect, marginal current roster player and/or draft picks.
I agree with your points on Marleau's value having risen in the last 4-5 years, yet Thorton hasn't fallen that much and is still the bigger return should he hit the trade market, now. Olympic roster selection was based on versitility and a player being able to work at many roles. Marleau could slot from #1 all the way to #4 and still fill any role asked of him. He is one of the more versiltile players being able to play wing/center in a offensive/checking and defensive role. |
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CrockOShight
Top Prospect
95 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 11:01:46
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These are ALL very good hockey players.
Thornton had 76 points - 13th in the League in Scoring this Season. He's 10th in League scoring over the last 3 Seasons (ironically, Kessel is 2nd). And he's 7th in League Scoring over the past 5 Seasons. Whatever, we all know Joe Thornton is still an elite player who will produce for another 4-5 years.
And guess who has more goals in the NHL over the past five seasons than Phil Kessel? Patrick Marleau. Again, still bringing the heat.
On the other hand, Gardiner was on a tear down the stretch. Unfortunately, that didn't help the Leafs' epic collapse - but nonetheless. He was showing signs of understanding the flow of play, great dish passes, and speed to a rather sluggish lineup. Gardiner is showing signs of becoming a big-time PP defence a la Keith Yandle. Now, he might not develop that way - but I sure wouldn't trade him at this point.
And Bozie has to be the most under-appreciated player in the League. Wins faceoffs, blocks shots, plays a mean power-play. He has a great habit of scoring big goals. He's a very valuable player - I think trading him would disrupt the chemistry.
Either way, I think that you are both right here. We all agree that these are all great players, but Bozak and Gardiner's values haven't fully come to fruition yet. Does San Jose want to gamble on two relative prospects? (Probably not). Would they like to trade their center-piece franchise player in Thornton (probably not). Would this be good for Toronto? - Maybe not. If the Leafs traded for Thornton right now, they are closing a window down the road. They are saying, "we want to win the Cup in the next two years.". I'm not sure if that's a good strategy here. Kessel is still relatively young, as are some of the other players in this lineup (Kadri, Gardiner, Bernier, Bozie).
If I were San Jose, I wouldn't dare trade Joe Thornton (or Marleau for that matter). If I were the Leafs, I wouldn't disrupt what seems to be a solid group of guys who are maturing together. Patience boys. Patience. Let's see what happens.
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 13:41:48
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wow, i sure didn't expect this to turn into a Leafs conversation....
as a Leafs fan i love to debate anything and everything that is Leafs, but let's stay on the Sharks with this one.
Josh, Crock - i never suggested blowing up the team. i simply stated that perhaps they'd entertain the idea of moving ONE of their core players, like Thornton. completely blowing this team up would be a mistake, that i agree with.
and i also agree that it is extremely difficult to win the cup. BUT at the same time, after almost 15 years of regular season success and no cup to speak of.....not even one appearance in the finals......questions about the make up of the team have to be asked.
think about this....both Chicago and LA went from sucking to cup winners over the same time period that San Jose was enjoying regular season success. and once again Chicago and LA are both in a good position to win, while San Jose once again is on the outside looking in.
Doug Wilson has to be considering a major move at this point. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 15:08:14
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I think the major move will be to let Dan Boyle walk, and find a replacement for him. Now, is that replacement Jake Gardiner? At this point i doubt it and in fact have heard, contrary to what someone else mentioned, that Gardiner's value, due to his underwhelming progress in development, has gone down. Considering how highly touted this kid was 3 years ago, i'd have expected him to be closer to Paul Coffey by now than Hal Gill!
The Sharks would need to find a puck moving dman somewhere to replace Boyle, and admittedly i don't know if they have any such youngsters in their system? It may take a Marleau or Thornton to not just "shake things up", but to bring back that asset as well! |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2014 : 19:54:29
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| ......say someone like Mike Green in Washington? he could probably use a change in venue. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2014 : 14:06:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
wow, i sure didn't expect this to turn into a Leafs conversation....
It is indeed an oddity. I cannot remember the last time a thread about another team's shortcomings evolved into a discussion regarding which underachievers on the Leafs it would take to draw said team's star players.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2015. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2014 : 01:50:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
......say someone like Mike Green in Washington? he could probably use a change in venue.
Yeah....though his defense isn't on Boyle's level, very good example regardless! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2014 : 01:51:45
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
wow, i sure didn't expect this to turn into a Leafs conversation....
It is indeed an oddity. I cannot remember the last time a thread about another team's shortcomings evolved into a discussion regarding which underachievers on the Leafs it would take to draw said team's star players.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2015.
Seriously? This sort of stuff happens all the time! |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2014 : 13:06:26
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Sorry. Forgot to make that last post in the sarcastica font.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2015. |
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Topic |
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The Yearly Playoff Meltdown in San Jose 
