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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
 Posted - 02/28/2014 : 18:29:44
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| Why are miller and ott worth so much more than stewart and halal? |
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Guest0917
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Posted - 02/28/2014 : 19:53:47
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Miller and Ott are rentals. Though either could sign next year.
Halak is technically a "rental" if he doesn't resign. So not really worth much in the trade in the event he doesn't resign since this year is a write off for the Sabres.
Stewart has a year on his contract, so a little value there but not a ton if he doesn't stick around.
Don't know much about Carrier.
You could see this trade as a shot at the cup this year with Miller (and Ott as a solid veteran rental as well) for a year with Stewart, a prospect, a 1st and a 3rd.
Seems like a lot... But if Miller delivers the cup it was worth it. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2014 : 22:49:45
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This is a pretty big overpayment for two upcoming UFA's that could both walk next year.
Halak is a reasonable replacement for Miller, Miller has a better pedigree but their career stats are very similar. Stewart is a definite offensive upgrade on Ott, and has size and skill. He's not known for his defensive side, but he'll add much needed offense in BUF.
Just on active NHL players, I think BUF wins this deal. However, STL also added:
- William Carrier, who was STL's second rounder a year ago, a solid prospect LW who is currently better than over the last 3 years in junior
- a conditional first rounder next year (don't know what the conditions are)
- a 3rd rounder in 2016.
To me this swings the deal definitively into BUF's favour. The only way that STL breaks even on this deal is if they go 3+ rounds in the playoffs and manage to keep Miller next year, and Miller keeps doing what he's done so far in his career. |
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Guest7139
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Posted - 03/01/2014 : 06:57:56
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| Halak also had a the leagues best defence in front of him. Millers the better goalie by far. I just think the blues gave up way to much. Should've just been miller and ott for halak and Stewart plus first rounder |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2014 : 10:36:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7139
Halak also had a the leagues best defence in front of him. Millers the better goalie by far. I just think the blues gave up way to much. Should've just been miller and ott for halak and Stewart plus first rounder
Halak's GAA is actually quite a bit lower than Miller's, I was trying to account for the fact that Halak benefits from a better defense... however their SV% are very close. Miller is also 5 years older than Halak. Goalies tend to go longer than forwards so 33 is not an alarming age. However, 3 years from now, when Miller is 36 and Halak is 31... but hey, who can predict the future.
I still think this deal hinges on STL making some noise in the playoffs, and/or him resigning with STL. If neither one of those happens, this will become a fairly lopsided trade for BUF.
An interesting development, word is that BUF may still trade Stewart for further youth. Stewart could be a valuable asset, 26 years old with size and skill, I'm surprised that BUF might not want to hang on to him as part of a youth movement. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2014 : 14:30:14
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| I think this is a fair deal actually, for both sides! It's easy to say St. Louis overpaid (esp with the UFA statuses) but look at how good they are and how close they are to winning it all! I get the feeling Miller will be happy to resign with a team that is all but guaranteed to be a contender for the next 4-5 years! Ott, if he fits in, could also be resigned for the same reason. Any way you look at it, this is the exact type of trade that a team like St Louis should make in their position! If I were a Blues fan, I'd have ZERO complaint about this deal and I'd be looking very forward to the playoffs! |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2014 : 18:44:02
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| St louis just became more serious contenders. Miller has the ability to raise his game to match the best in the league, no problem. I`ve always thought highly of Ott. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2014 : 21:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
I`ve always thought highly of Ott.
He's a lot like Clarkson (except 2M per season cheaper), so that is not surprising  |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2014 : 07:27:40
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Whoever said Halak and Miller are similar is . . . well, fill in the derogatory comment.
Miller has a Vezina trophy. Silver medal as a starting goalie for the US team, and he was the best goalie of that tournament. For 540 starts, he has an amazing .916 career save percentage, mostly with a bad team with middling defence. He's a perennial all-star on the NHL, and basically a top 5 goalie every year, as rated by pundits and hockey commentators.
Halak has no trophy as yet of any kind. He has performed very well internationally for the Slovak team however. And he has the exact same career save percentage as Miller (.917), EXCEPT - and this is a big caveat for me - it's over a 260 game span. He has been an OCCASIONAL all-star, and always has the potential to be a top 5 goalie in the league . . . but I think we could say he's been top 5 . . . maybe once? Possibly twice?
No hockey commentator or pundit would at this time rate him in the same stratosphere as Miller. Nor would I.
They are NOT the same.
Done.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2014 : 12:18:20
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on my nuxfan , always the clarkson dig.
i didn`r sign his dam contract !!!
Staying on topic ( which doesn`t include clarkson ) .....do you think Ott is a good pickup for st . louis going into the playoffs ??
Whats ur thoughts on Miller ?? i suppose you think he isn`t an upgrade over Halak ??
Ryan Miller has always been and is still is an elite ALL - STAR goalie, he is one of the games best....no doubt about it. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2014 : 12:22:06
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was going to add....
Brodeur and Roy has set the bar for goalies....on a scale of 1 - 10.....Brodeur and Roy being 10`s......Miller is easily a 9 or 9.5. |
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andarchy
Top Prospect
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2014 : 18:13:48
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| In my mind, St.Louis just won the cup by picking up Ryan Miller. They were so close to having a complete team, really only needing a stud goalie to take them to the promise land. Then 'whammo', there he was... Miller on a silver platter. Kinda takes me back to the Avs when all they needed was a goalie, then came Patty Roy (or Hasek to the Red Wings). |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2014 : 21:26:53
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Miller has a Vezina trophy. Silver medal as a starting goalie for the US team, and he was the best goalie of that tournament. For 540 starts, he has an amazing .916 career save percentage, mostly with a bad team with middling defence. He's a perennial all-star on the NHL, and basically a top 5 goalie every year, as rated by pundits and hockey commentators.
Halak has no trophy as yet of any kind. He has performed very well internationally for the Slovak team however. And he has the exact same career save percentage as Miller (.917), EXCEPT - and this is a big caveat for me - it's over a 260 game span. He has been an OCCASIONAL all-star, and always has the potential to be a top 5 goalie in the league . . . but I think we could say he's been top 5 . . . maybe once? Possibly twice?
BUF has not always been the gong show that they are now, they have had some good years during Miller's time there, where offensive support was provided. On the same note, STL has not always been the juggernaut that they are now either, and had a few years where they were good defensively but not very good offensively, which puts pressure on the goalie to perform.
At the end of the day, neither of them have the trophy that matters the most - the Stanley Cup. Miller has been excellent so far for STL (benefitting from the same defense that Halak did), but it will ultimately depend on how he does in May and June that will decide this trade.
quote:
Originally posted by duke
Staying on topic ( which doesn`t include clarkson ) .....do you think Ott is a good pickup for st . louis going into the playoffs ??
Whats ur thoughts on Miller ?? i suppose you think he isn`t an upgrade over Halak ??
Ryan Miller has always been and is still is an elite ALL - STAR goalie, he is one of the games best....no doubt about it.
Ott is a good pickup for any team that wants to go deep, he's durable and a great checking forward. I don't think that STL really needs him, they have plenty of toughness through all of their lines already. Ott is insurance for them in case of injury, but I doubt he'll see much better than 3rd/4th line minutes.
So far Miller has been great for STL. As I said above, it will depend on what he does in May and June. I cheer for a team that had "one of the game's best goalies", and an "elite all-star"... but those accolades mean little unless you can bring home the cup. It will be an interesting thread to revisit come June.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2014 : 14:26:01
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I thought we'd be revisiting this thread in June, but here we are in mid-May with the future already decided for STL.
Miller will not be resigned by STL. He played about 20 games for them, at times bad and at times spectacular. STL loses the final 6 games of their season to lose top spot in the west, and then loses in the first round to CHI, after being up 2-0 in the series.
In return for 20 odd games and a first round exit, STL gives up:
- Stewart - a solid 26 year old power winger, capable of 20+ goals per season (although he hasn't hit it in the past 3)
- Halak - a solid-but-unspectacular 29 year old goalie who enjoyed a great deal of success with STL
- William Carrier - a solid forward prospect
- 2015 first round pick - somewhere in the middle of the pack
- 2016 3rd round pick - TBD
Who still thinks this was a good deal for STL? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2014 : 16:04:34
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My opinion is unchanged. Good deal both ways. I think it was worth the gamble for the Blues. Sure, Halak may have done as well or better than Miller but had he not, Blues fans prob woulda been angry they didn't make an upgrade and at least take a shot.
Fair deal then, fair deal now. No different than if Miller brought them the cup. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2014 : 10:17:34
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It seemed like a steep price to pay for the Blues to give all that up for Miller but it was a gamble they could afford to make. They are a deep team all across the board and with Elliot (the NHL leader in shutouts over the past 2-3 seasons) and Jake Allen in their pocket, the could afford to risk Miller not resigning for a value they liked.
It's not like they were betting the farm on black and red hit. They made a calculated risk with money they could afford to lose and their number didn't hit.
Smart gamble that didn't pay off and another situation of hindsight being 20/20/
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2014 : 22:42:40
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I wasn't a fan of the deal in the first place, and I'm even less of a fan now. I think they gave up too much to get Miller, and it looks even more like it now that Miller will be elsewhere.
I will be curious to see how both Stewart and Halak do next season, especially Halak. The message that acquiring Miller sent was that STL didn't think Halak was good enough to lead them to the cup. Now Halak has a chance to be the undisputed #1 on a young and promising NYI team without a top notch defense - we'll see what he can do. |
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Ryan Miller to St. Louis - DONE 
