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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
 Posted - 04/10/2008 : 06:09:59
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I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page as you, Beans. Barring a miraculous comeback, this debate is way more one-sided than it should be.
Willus- BOOOO!! If there is no replacement, I would be wiling to debate myself. I'd kinda' feel bad taking a bye, and I'm enjoying the process so far. It would be a shame to have a breakdown.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 07:08:56
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I'm really sorry guys but i'm gonna have to back out of this one!  I really wish i could still be in it but i'm leaving for 6 weeks and i won't have internet. i apologize sincerely for any problems this may cause and i really hope you can find someone to take my place!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 04:23:48
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Ok Keith you are now a member of the Great Debate. We are still looking for two more members.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 04:25:14
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No worrys to whoever had to drop out of this for whatever reason. I understand and I hope everyone else also does.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 04:28:11
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Thanks LRP. I really wish i could stay for this cuz I was really looking forward to it! I hope it goes well for all of you!
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Been There and Done That
Top Prospect
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 10:10:52
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I would like to join this. It looks very interesting and could be a nice challenge.
Oilers fan for 38 years and for life. |
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Ethan
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 18:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
I'm pretty sure I'm on the same page as you, Beans. Barring a miraculous comeback, this debate is way more one-sided than it should be.
Willus- BOOOO!! If there is no replacement, I would be wiling to debate myself. I'd kinda' feel bad taking a bye, and I'm enjoying the process so far. It would be a shame to have a breakdown.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009.
Leafsfan_101, you already lost!
Alex had the harder side guys, don't fool yourselves. Ovechkin has made such a case for himself this year, and Alex had to find a way to fight classic arguments to which there is no classic rebutal.
I was reading these forums as a guest when Alex was in his posting-frenzy, and I thought there was no way he would win this debate.
But I thought long and hard about it, and he is not only the winner, he is the clear cut winner. He does not even need to add another post, he has already won.
What would you guys have answered? He was smart. First off, he opened the debate right up by making it about more than on-ice things. Second of all, he looked at international play, which is something I would never have thought of.
Third of all, he pointed out a lot of discrepancies in Ovechkin's conduct and the percieved image we have of him. Fourth of all, he did something so simple yet profound: just look at the age advantage, guys!
And lastly, Leafsfan_101 hurt himself by not following standard rules of debate. Beans warned at the beginning, get your facts straight or you will be chewed apart. Well, Alex asked for sources, and Leafsfan_101 made a very tactical error by coming out and saying ''I will not give them to you because they are to my disadvantage.''
As well, he failed to rise to the very challenge Alex took succesfully from him.
Ovechkin, in the hockey world's opinion at large, is the clear winner. But seriously look at the facts Alex threw out. This was a debate contest, and Leafsfan_101 did not debate. He had the better candidate, and if we had to vote who in fact was better, we probably would vote for AO. But think about what was said, think about what YOU would have done, and think about how close it really is. Alex by far had the better debate.
The voting will be close, and I don't have a vote, but I do not need one. Alex wins hands down, unless he retracts or contradicts himself in his last post. |
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Bleeding Blue and White
Top Prospect
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 19:58:04
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Wow, I can't believe you just said that. Oveckin is a harder side because there is less info on him. And some thngs u said were stupid actully.
1). Crosby won the scoring title last year and has been in Canada's eye since he was 14. There is alot more info then for Ovechkin, so he had ample resources.
2). If I were to debate a topic, why would I focus and expand on a minor detail. In hockey, on ice play matters foremost. I bet that if Emery had been outstanding this year on the ice and his team was winning consistently his off ice antics wouldn't be as magnified. On ice play matters most, and LF_101 showed that. Alex focused on a detail that has a part in the larger scheme of things but isn't what the majority of debate should be focusing on. LF_101 dis, and showed what mattered. Point him.
2). Ovechkin has been better in international play then Crosby. LF_101 illustrates thiis in post 3. That's a knock against Alex, and shows that LF_101 researched something and capitalized on a lack in studying on Alex's part.
3). Also, if I were debating why would I want to fall into a strategy set by my opponent. LF_101 came out with something that illustrated his point further, therefore giving his debate side more validity. Alex managed to focus alot on things other then on ice play. If I were trying to judge a hockey player his on ice feats would be the first and foremost thing I would try to make clear.
Look at it and you will see that LF_101's argument was a much more difficult side to portray/ Alex just didn't display the important info better then LF_101.
PS. Ethan = Alex. Look at the past posts of Ethan. In the Top 30 Since Lockout, Ethan joins, and 2 MINUTES LATER Alex posts. That isn't coincidence. It's Alex. Not cool.
I'd like to join this debate game. Seems very interesting.
~Long Live the Leafs~ |
Edited by - Bleeding Blue and White on 04/13/2008 08:25:20 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 20:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Bleeding Blue and White
PS. Ethan = Alex. Look at the past posts of Ethan. In the Top 30 Since Lockout, Ethan joins, and 2 MINUTES LATER Alex posts. That isn't coincidence. It's Alex. Not cool.
~Long Live the Leafs~
Um, ouch? No I am not Ethan. That you would suggest that is very insulting, offensive and belittling. Maybe you would think of that type of scheme, but not I.
I happened to notice that he posted, and was quick to reply. I want to get that game going. It's no big, seriously.
Don't make this personal because it's not cool, not at all.
"You're playing worse every day and right now you're playing like the middle of next week."
-Herb Brooks
EDIT: I will require a little time for last post. Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. LRP, if you wish you may throw out the next topic so the next contestents can at least start to fashion their debates. |
Edited by - Alex on 04/13/2008 13:05:20 |
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Ethan
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2008 : 06:47:11
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| I'm in. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 11:45:57
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| Unless I'm mistaken, this next post by Alex will end the debate, right? Subsequently, the voting can begin. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 13:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Unless I'm mistaken, this next post by Alex will end the debate, right? Subsequently, the voting can begin.
Yes, Alex still has one post then the voting may begin.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 14:16:20
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Can I join?
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey'' |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 15:09:24
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quote:
Originally posted by BradTheBadDad
Can I join?
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey''
Sorry we have reached our maximum.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 17:39:34
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Ethan you are now the Final Member.
ALEX we are still awaiting your final post.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Edited by - Leafs Rock Planet on 04/14/2008 17:40:43 |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 17:43:53
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New Matchups based on fill-ins and first to join.
Paintrain
99pickles(advancing)
Keith
Leafs Rock Planet
Leafsfan_101
Alex
Bleeding Blue and White
OILINONTARIO
Shinnyafterschool
Beans15
Patchy
Ethan
Lets speed this up everybody.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Keith
Top Prospect
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 18:20:32
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Err it's a tough call. I think Ovechkin is better BUT I reread both multiple times and Alex makes a strong point, he had to fight the fan favourite and actually come up with a lot of his material
Also, it is true that LF101 made a little too many debate mistakes to be ignored
I vote Alex |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 18:38:22
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Hey Keith can you move your vote over to the Debate thread please. Its called The Great Debate-LF101 vs. Alex
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 18:40:31
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Leafs fan's arguements were alot more relative to everyone than Alex's, and I felt Ovechkin was being better represented than Crosby. Therefore I vote Leafs Fan.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 18:41:36
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Please move all votes over to the DEBATE THREAD!!!
Its just easier to calculate and more organized.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 19:06:23
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Make sure you understand the topic you are debating. Something as simple as Ovechkin vs. Crosby can be interpreted so many different ways, it would have been in both debaters best interest to inquire into something deeper. Is it who is the best player?? Who is the best person? Who is better looking?? Who is more popular?? etc.Due to this, both debaters were arguing different points. Leafs was about on the ice, Alex was about off the ice (for the most part).
With that being said, I looked at the support each person had for their own view. Leafs fan was very fact based, and regardless if you think he only used one or two web sites to research, I think he did the job well. Clear, simple, to the point.
Alex, couple of things. Firstly, quantity does not equal quantity. I literally had to stop at least 6 times in the last post to go back and start again because I lost interest. It was almost over researched, if that makes sense. So much info that the point was lost. What was the point?? What did it prove or disprove??
And the final kicker in this that swayed my vote is that NEVER should a person in a debate speak personally about their opponent. Attack their opinion all you want, but never bring them up. Alex talked about the mistakes his opponent made which is complete taboo in debates. It might be accepted in political debates(such as Clinton vs. Obama on the TV's every night these days), but it doesn't make it right.
My vote goes to Leafs_Fan.
In the end, something I have said to before and I will say again,
QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!!!!
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Edited by - Beans15 on 04/14/2008 19:09:47 |
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Ethan
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 19:09:15
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It's a shame, you guys are not viewing this for what it is, a debate contest. You are seeing this as an effort to persuade the reader
Clearly, Alex Ovechkin makes much more of a case for himself. We were looking at what the debater ADDS and Alex runs away with this one!
As for attacking, its all over debates that's not really valid Beans. |
Edited by - Ethan on 04/14/2008 19:11:13 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 19:40:52
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Ethan, I completely disagree.
1) Alex added what??? A ton of "facts" which were actually opinions?? So much information that you have no idea what the point is??
2) What's not valid?? Pointing out the mistakes (or what you consider to be mistakes) of your opponent has nothing to do with the debate. It's normally what people who are losing a debate do to try to make people dislike the other debater. It's not a popularity contest. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2008 : 22:07:55
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| Good thing the voting for the debate between PainTrain and I is over....Minnesota just won their game on an icing chase-down!! O/T winner to boot... |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 06:14:55
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I've been busy lately, but last night I finally got around to reading Alex's posts here. Alex, I don't think your posts are long enough! You really need to think about this brevity problem of yours!
Anyway, both guys obviously gave it a good effort. If I were voting though, my vote would go to LF. And that is not because I love Ovie! Nothing against him, but I certainly am not a huge fan. In fact, if I had to choose which of these two great players I would have on my team, I would, in most circumstances, take Crosby.
I would give LF the edge mainly because he simply made his arguments in a more precise , organized manner.
And I think the non-ice point would have been a more significant point for you Alex if there would have been a more glaring difference between the players this way. Whether or not this point is relevant is one question, but even if we say that it is relevant, how much "greater" a person is Sid than Ovie off the ice, if any. Both these guys are far from terrible guys off the ice. So bringing the point up didn't really advance your cause that much, Alex, and as others have mentioned, it may not be all that relevant anyway. But credit to LF for his post on Ovie's background - that was interesting and insightful and was sufficient enough to negate any point Alex may have had on this I think.
Anyway, Alex, I need your billing address so I can send you a bill for the time used to read your posts! Just kidding. I'll write the time off |
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Bleeding Blue and White
Top Prospect
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 14:00:46
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Two things I must take care of.
1). My vote- Because I am a member of this panel and my vote counts towards the final standing, I am going to make my vote count. Which is why I vote......LF_101.
I voted for him simply because of organization and length. LF_101's posts combatted everything Alex said and added more. Alex's posts were very long and I lost the meaning of his post. LF_101's were shor, sweet and to the point. This had nothing to do with if I like Ovie more. It had to do with organization, facts presented and post length.
2nd Order of Buisness- I must humbly request to withdraw from the compitition at this time. Unfortunatly my midterm are comming up along with final exams and it's crunch time here for me. But my vote still counts. I wanted to contribute to this even for a short time. I think Andyhack or BradTheNadDad would be happy to take my place.
Congrats Leafsfan on moving onto the next round.
~Long Live the Leafs~ |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 14:32:14
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If you have time Andy, I would gladly like to submit you back into this thing?
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 16:04:55
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I am confused. I am now pretty sure that there is one vacancy still remaining. There are just so many people wanting in. But, I still think there is one vacancy.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2008 : 17:15:06
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| Thanks, I appreciate the offer, but I think it would be better to give the spot to someone else. I wouldn't want you to hold a spot for me and then have to pull out again (that scenario happening probably has a higher than 50% chance). |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 07:53:32
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| Hey LRP, can I be a member? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 12:11:13
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Who's up next??
LRP, could I suggest that we get more than one going at the same time?? I am just thinking that the ball got rolling on this a month ago and we are through just two debates. As we know, after the playoffs, the traffic to the site slows considerably.
I would think we want to get this done before the end of the playoffs.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2008 : 17:57:07
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If you are having trouble thinkig of topics, as I said before, I'm sure you could get a lot of help from forum members.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 04:36:25
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I would surely/gladly take any requests regarding the debate topics.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 07:35:26
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Here are a couple of debates of the top of my head:
1) NHL Discipline.
2) The Salary Cap.
3) Bigger Nets
4) Smaller Goalie Pads
5) Low Scoring vs. High Scoring.
6) Delay of game penalty for shooting the puck over the glass.
7) The Shoot out
8) 3 Point Games (2 for win, 1 for OT loss)
9) NHL Schedule
10) CBC's visable Leafs Bias.
I'm sure there are more.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 13:51:18
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Let's get going! As Beans said, do at least two at a time. This thread is really slowing down, and in danger of becoming extinct.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 14:05:10
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I hope LRP doesn't mind but I'll take over from here. We will do, as Beans said, 2 arguments at a time. The next arguments are:
Beans vs. SuperSakic
Topic = NHL players and the Olympics
OILINONTARIO vs. BradTheBadDad
Topic = NHL's Economic Model
Tell me how you like these topics, and which side of the argument you like. If both want the same side then a new topic will be chosen. If neither like the topic a new topic will be chosen.
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 14:13:26
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Yes. Me and LF101 have been communicating Via. email and we both think that it would be best if he takes over. His and my knowledge of the game are almost identical but I feel that this topic would be better of run by him. I will still participate in this, debate, follow and comment regularly. Just think of this as a change of management.
Take it away LF101.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Edited by - Leafs Rock Planet on 04/19/2008 14:16:01 |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 18:11:08
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I'll take the hit, and argue against the latest CBA, if that's cool with BradTheBadDad.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2008 : 15:30:01
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| I will let SuperSakic decide what side he would like to debate. It really doesn't matter to me. I have opinions both ways. |
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BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2008 : 19:06:35
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Sorry guys, gonna have to drop out. So will Keith and Ethan if I'm not mistaken. We all are in the same playoff pool at work and started having fun on this site during work hours  Boss caught on and now internet is strictly monitored starting next week. Don't think we'll be able to play... unless from home. But I'm out and I think they will be too. Really sorry for the inconvenience.
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey'' |
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