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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2010 : 03:59:45
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Who do you think is the most overrated
GO SHARKS GO
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Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 05/07/2010 04:00:17
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 04:03:21
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I think Roberto Luongo is the most overrated goalie in the league the most overrated player would easily be Milan Michalek
GO SHARKS GO |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 05:02:19
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Actually, Jumbo Joe Rocks, I think your namesake may be the most overrated player.
Seriously though, to be the "most" overrated, you have to be rated quite highly to begin with - which would automatically disqualify a player like Michalek, who has always just been considered a solid second liner with first liner potential.
As I have said before about the Sharks - they are not there because of Thornton, up 3 games to 1 in the second round . . . they are there DESPITE him. Except for one game where he scored and made a nice pass, his points have been of the 'ho-hum' variety . . . soft points, I like to say.
To use players from the same series - guys like Pavelski, Zetterberg - they don't take a shift off, and continually outwork their opponents . . . which is how they get their points.
I used to defend Jumbo Joe, but I have seen the light: I would never want him on my team. Oh. Verr. Rated.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4740
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Posted - 05/07/2010 : 05:15:27
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My top 4.
1. Marc Andre Fleury
2. Olli Jokinen
3. Alex Burrows
4. Bobby Ryan |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 07:34:47
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I think Marc Savard might be one of the more over-rated players this year, or at least this post season.
For the Bruins' best player they definitly showed that they can still win without him in the first round.
Not saying he's not a good player, I just don't think he makes or breaks the team like a lot of people seem to think.
And Halak is easily the most over-rated Goalie of the post season. He's playing over his head and has been since the first round. If Montreal beats Pittsburgh it'll have to be a team effort, not this guy.
This guy is going to crash and the people that keep comparing him to Roy are going to look very silly.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Guest7886
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Posted - 05/07/2010 : 07:35:26
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Bobby Ryan? I thought that he proved himself quite well this year, procuding nicely despite not having Getzlaf/Perry to coast off of since he got moved to the 2nd line...
I definitely agree with the other 3 though. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 08:15:13
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JJR, is this meant as a playoff performer or overall cuz i believe we've had this question thrown around multiple times?
I agree with Slozo's comment that to be overrated, you have to be somewhat highly rated at some point? I'd say that rules out guys like Burrows, Michalek and especially Halak! Don't confuse a Montreal fan saying "he's the next coming of Patrick Roy" after the success he's had with him suddenly being a highly rated goalie? Michalek? Never had him very high on my radar to begin with? Burrows, who ever had him rated high? Not even anyone here in Canuckland expected what we've gotten out of him offensively and if it's Canucks fans enthusiasm over his play that has you thinking he's suddenly highly rated then i'd say you're a little off based there?
Luongo i can see getting votes, mostly because he IS highly talked about and highly regarded as one of the top goalies in the league. Some thought winning the gold might validate some of this praise and perhaps it does, but others still wanna see him put his team on his back and get them to the cup final before considering him one of the best. Funny how these same people will continue to say Henrik Lundquist is better and look what he's done? Based on this years playoffs so far and how highly Luongo is regarded, sure, he'd be an easy vote for over rated. Funny thing is, he's actually played quite well and made the huge saves to keep his team in games and / or keep them ahead in games. When you're down a goal or two and the other team has a quality chance, that's when you need your goalie to step up and Luongo's done that time and time again. Just goes to show you how difficult it is to get respect when you're expected to be one of the best!
For me, Thornton would be an easy pick regardless of his production this spring! Look career wise and he's a gimme!
Other's i'd consider are:
1. M. A. Fleury (only cuz i've never been sold on this guy as one of the best to begin with)
2. M. Green (still needs to either work on his defensive side or else maybe move to wing?)
3. P. Demitra (yeah, maybe not so highly regarded anymore but a successful olympics had many expecting huge things from this guy and he just doesn't have it anymore. Even analysts i hear talk about how good he still can be and yet we never see it)
BTW, can't agree with Savard being overrated, not even for the playoffs. Just because a team rallies and wins without their best player doesn't mean he's overrated! Not to mention, he's just come back from a serious injury (prob early), scored a huge OT winner and been playing pretty decent overall from what i've seen! |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:27:00
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I don't see how MA-Fleury is overrated?
i don't think he is the greatest, but why do some say he is overrated?
In his 7 years in the NHL, his lowest SV% was .896, his rookie year in which he played 21 games, and had another year at .898, in which he played 50games. The .898 year was also his second year. Other than that, his save percentage has been above .900.
Only in his first two years did he lose more games than he won. Other than that, and overall in his career, he has a winning record.
Sure, he plays on a great team, but he still wins games, doesn't he?
But, in all honesty, I have not seen him play very much, so someone has to tell me in what way he is overrated. It would be greatly appreciated. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:11:27
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In regards to playoffs,
Ovechkin, or perhaps more politically correct, the Washington Capitals. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 13:41:34
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I am a little surprised to see MA Fleury spoke as over rated by so many people. Sure he has a decent team in front of him, but they are far better offensively than defensively.
There is something to be said of a goalie who backstopped his team to the Stanley Cup Finals in back to back years.
I would consider Lunogo a great regular season player and an average playoff players. Much like Joe Thornton. If that is the measuring stick, I would put both of those guys as over rates well before MA Fleury.
If I had to pick one single player who is rated quite high on most people's list who really doesn't belong it would be Dion Phaneuf. I know Willus will more than likely beat me down for that, but for a guy who started his career so wicked, I'm a surprised to see how much he has fallen. Consider that Ian White was a solid contributor to the Leafs yet Phaneuf was really not anything other than physical for that team. Considering his salary, production, and potential, I say he is the most over rated player. |
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Guest5211
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Posted - 05/07/2010 : 17:55:02
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Nabokovvvvv
everyone blames thornton, marleau and guys like that when they lose.. no one seems to blame him. and oh ya he comes up clutch in the olympics too.. luongo too
most overrated player. hm. jokinen, hossa too, he dont know how to win |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 01:06:17
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Why do i feel MAF is overrated?
Like i stated, it's prob because i've never been "sold" on this kid to begin with but i just don't see him as a top 5-7 goalie like many do? Personally, he wouldn't even have been my 3rd pick for team Canada, but maybe that's just me? I'm not saying he can't become one of the best, i just don't think he's as near it as a lot of other people think he is.
PE, ...... To answer your question, it's more to do with the hype he gets (not just from Beans, but from many) for taking an abundantly offensively talented Pittsburgh team to the finals two straight years! I RARELY ever hear Chris Osgood's name mentioned in the top goalie category yet was he not the goalie at the other end of the same two finals where we saw MAF play? Don't throw these "he led his team to two straight cup finals" facts out there and try to make them seem more important than perhaps they are???
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 09:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry
I think Marc Savard might be one of the more over-rated players this year, or at least this post season.
For the Bruins' best player they definitly showed that they can still win without him in the first round.
Not saying he's not a good player, I just don't think he makes or breaks the team like a lot of people seem to think.
And Halak is easily the most over-rated Goalie of the post season. He's playing over his head and has been since the first round. If Montreal beats Pittsburgh it'll have to be a team effort, not this guy.
This guy is going to crash and the people that keep comparing him to Roy are going to look very silly.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
I agree with this in a sense. It's not that he is over rated but rather has been over acheiving. With that being said I'll ride him as far as he goes right now, he is playing great but the D in my opinion has been playing great as well. They are taking a huge load of him night after night.
If they trade Price I still believe it will be the worst thing since Roy leaving because I dont see Halak as a franchise goalie. |
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Guest4780
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Posted - 05/08/2010 : 11:31:51
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Roberto Luongo. He's definitely not worth 8 million a season the way he is playing. Top tier goalies can carry their teams and steal games, making a "spectacular save" after letting in 3 or 4 is too little, too late. A teams best penalty killer is supposed to be their goalie, Luongo looks like Cloutier out there, i'm constantly afraid that any shot from anywhere will get past him, and IF he stops it, there wil be a juicy rebound for toews and Byf to jump on. The Canucks should start Raycroft on sunday, i doubt he can bobble the puck any worse than Luongo has in these playoffs  |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 11:56:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Why do i feel MAF is overrated?
Like i stated, it's prob because i've never been "sold" on this kid to begin with but i just don't see him as a top 5-7 goalie like many do? Personally, he wouldn't even have been my 3rd pick for team Canada, but maybe that's just me? I'm not saying he can't become one of the best, i just don't think he's as near it as a lot of other people think he is.
PE, ...... To answer your question, it's more to do with the hype he gets (not just from Beans, but from many) for taking an abundantly offensively talented Pittsburgh team to the finals two straight years! I RARELY ever hear Chris Osgood's name mentioned in the top goalie category yet was he not the goalie at the other end of the same two finals where we saw MAF play? Don't throw these "he led his team to two straight cup finals" facts out there and try to make them seem more important than perhaps they are???
Alex, you are trying to compare a goalie playing behind Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Erikkson, and Lebda against a goalie playing behind Gonchar, Letang, Eaton, Scuderi, Boucher, and Orpik???
It's not even a fair fight.
Osgood face 187 shots and allowed 14 goals (.925)
Fleury faced 187 shots and allowed 17 goals (.909)
Considering the hugely lopsided advantage Detroit had in that series offensively, Fleury played pretty effin good.
I was never saying that I say he is an elite, top 5 in the league goalie, but he is far from over rated. He is rated exactly as good as he should be.
In the end, I can throw out any statements I want. If you want to argue the points, I would appreciate the challenge. To say not to throw them out, c'mon. You are way better than that!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 17:25:04
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Beans, my apologies, my chosen words or at least the way i worded that does seem a little condecending now that i've reread it. It was certainly not my intention to belittle you. 
Perhaps i should have said, IMO, the back to back finals appearances by MAF are part of why i feel he's overrated seeing as he plays on such an offensively talented team.
As for the goalie comparison, that's not what i was getting at. I was just saying that Osgood gets little recognition for similar accomplishments. I agree his d was better but with the numbers you posted, i'm a little confused? What exactly are you trying to say? They seem to point to exactly what i was saying, that Osgood did as much or more than MAF yet gets little or no praise for it? Are you saying the shots he faced were lower quality due to his better D? I'm kinda lost..... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 21:37:51
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Your arguement is that it's no big deal that Fleury backstopped his team to back to back Cup finals as Osgood did it as well.
Name the last goalie outside of those two to do it???
I bet you will be going back about 20 years.
My point was not that Fleury is amazing. My point is that it's hard to say he is over rated considering what he has accomplished in his still very short career.
My point behind the shots is weak, I admit. My point was that Fleury only let in 3 more goals over 7 games facing the same number of shots as Osgood. The assumption is that Fleury's defense was not as good so the quality of shots was more than likely high.
However, that is very difficult to prove either way. |
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Guest9423
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Posted - 05/08/2010 : 22:02:17
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| Overrated Crosby, he whines constantly when he gets his way and gets man handled by a rookie and yells at the refs all the time to b*tch. How many points does he have against montreal this series it sure does look like Ovie atleast did something to make his team go to 7 games, Crosby is a no show throughout the series even if pens win its goes to show how young and immature sid the kid really is. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 22:12:06
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I would agree that Crosby is being a bit more immature this series that he has in a long, long time. I thought he had grown up a little, but he still has a bit of a ways to go.
However, when he is not scoring because Montreal is so focused on him, look at the rest of his team. They have done enough to set Montreal on the edge. Realistically, if Crosby has even an average game on Monday and Pitt wins, his whining really doesn't matter.
But I have to ask, how does him whining make him over rated?? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 22:42:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Your arguement is that it's no big deal that Fleury backstopped his team to back to back Cup finals as Osgood did it as well.
Name the last goalie outside of those two to do it???
I bet you will be going back about 20 years.
My point was not that Fleury is amazing. My point is that it's hard to say he is over rated considering what he has accomplished in his still very short career.
My point behind the shots is weak, I admit. My point was that Fleury only let in 3 more goals over 7 games facing the same number of shots as Osgood. The assumption is that Fleury's defense was not as good so the quality of shots was more than likely high.
However, that is very difficult to prove either way.
Brodeur? Didn't he do it with the Devils and i think Belfour did it with Dallas, or was that 2 finals in 3 years? Can't remember, but moot point as yes, both are / were pretty darn good goalies!
Anyway, l agree he's accomplished a lot but that's where my Osgood reference was meant. Osgood has a pretty darn good resume but never gets any talk of being a top tier goalie. Either way, over rated is simply an opinion and it banks largely on who's rating the player to begin with! Tough to argue really!
@ guest9423...... funny how it's been widely talked about around here how Crosby really has grown up a ton over the past year and you have to bring "whining" into a thread in which we're discussing who's over rated? C'mon, go show your hate for Crosby and your love for Ovie in the proper thread. And, how can you give props to Ovie for "making his team go 7 games" when they led 3-1? Dude, you're basically trying to tell us that even if the Pens move on, Ovie's better? Yeah, maybe at golf as i'm sure he's honing is skills on the links these days? |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 00:53:28
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My internet is acting up badly tonight, so i'll keep this brief. (Home Internet should be fixed Monday.)
Anyhoo,
Why is it people always say Crosby is a whiner? Is he? Or is he just like every other NHL player?
We see guys complaining to the ref after every shift, after every call! Every game, every player. They all plead their case. And, Sid doesn't do it any more or less than anyone else.
I guess he's just that talented, people can only point out that he whines. Shows how awesome he truly is... biggest flaw... he whines!
Irvine/prez. |
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FLYING -V
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 09:52:51
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I'd say Thornton is an underrated playoff performer, here's why... Everyone's always slagging him for how useless he is in playoffs when really, nothing could be further from the truth.Just because thornton isn't putting up his usual phenomenal numbers at playoff time doesnt mean he's not taking care of business. He plays tough and physical,winning puck battles along the boards while still creating chances for his teammates. Besides,take a look at the defencemen who've been assigned as Thornton's shadows these last five seasons: Lidstrom,Pronger,Niedermayer. Arguably the NHL's three best defencemen since the lockout. And still Joe's been averageing almost a point a game. Even when he's not been producing offensively, take last year's Anaheim series for example, he's still been making a difference. He provided the spark the team needed in game 5 when he dropped the mitts with Ryan Getzlaf off the opening faceoff. And look at him this year, with all the attention going to Pavelski he's quietly had a tremendous post-season. If not for him, they would have been knocked out by colorado and maybe even by detroit. Game 2 of the avalanche series for example,san jose is down 1 with 20 or so seconds remaining. Jumbo gets the puck at the half wall under pressure, any other player just throws it on net and hopes for the best, but Thornton stays cool, gets his head up and makes a perfect cross-ice pass to Joe Pavelski, who ties it up. Sharks win in OT. Had they lost that game they would have gone down 2-0 in the series and may not have been able to come back. He also had some beauty feeds on game winners in the detroit series. I mean did you see last night's game? Joe Thornton overrated...please.
Its not worth winning if you cant win big! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 12:04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by FLYING -V
I'd say Thornton is an underrated playoff performer, here's why... Everyone's always slagging him for how useless he is in playoffs when really, nothing could be further from the truth.Just because thornton isn't putting up his usual phenomenal numbers at playoff time doesnt mean he's not taking care of business. He plays tough and physical,winning puck battles along the boards while still creating chances for his teammates. Besides,take a look at the defencemen who've been assigned as Thornton's shadows these last five seasons: Lidstrom,Pronger,Niedermayer. Arguably the NHL's three best defencemen since the lockout. And still Joe's been averageing almost a point a game. Even when he's not been producing offensively, take last year's Anaheim series for example, he's still been making a difference. He provided the spark the team needed in game 5 when he dropped the mitts with Ryan Getzlaf off the opening faceoff. And look at him this year, with all the attention going to Pavelski he's quietly had a tremendous post-season. If not for him, they would have been knocked out by colorado and maybe even by detroit. Game 2 of the avalanche series for example,san jose is down 1 with 20 or so seconds remaining. Jumbo gets the puck at the half wall under pressure, any other player just throws it on net and hopes for the best, but Thornton stays cool, gets his head up and makes a perfect cross-ice pass to Joe Pavelski, who ties it up. Sharks win in OT. Had they lost that game they would have gone down 2-0 in the series and may not have been able to come back. He also had some beauty feeds on game winners in the detroit series. I mean did you see last night's game? Joe Thornton overrated...please.
Its not worth winning if you cant win big!
LOL!  I barely made it past the first bolded part but after struggling with it a bit, i toughened up and got through the rest. I'll just say this, and for the record, i'm a big Joe Thornton fan as i've said in other threads, if you wanna go and claim he's not really over rated for what ever your reasons are, ok, but it's hard for me to take you seriously when you claim he's actually UNDERrated!?!?!?! I don't think i'm gonna waste my time with reasons, it's pretty clear to me he's def not UNDERrated! I really wish you'd just claimed he's rated just fine...... |
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Most Overrated Player or Goalie 
