| Author |
 Topic  |
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2011 : 20:50:46
|
quote:
The more i post on this thread, the more i have to go back and make sure i really picked Toews as i always seem to be backing Kesler
It is a bit eerie.
6 months ago this question would have been laughable, and this thread probably wouldn't have even been started the answer was so obvious. The fact that this comparison is being made, and that its not a landslide for Toews says more about how much Kesler has improved than anything else.
|
 |
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 21:09:25
|
I love this debate, it keeps going and going. Alex116, seems like you got into it as well.
Here were your first thoughts (you were the first to post something):
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 23:20:34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a little surprised seeing Kesler leading this poll, but then again, it was obviously put up on this site late tonight while most back east and even in the central are likely asleep!
I love Kesler as a player and even moreso because he's a Canuck, but no way do i put him up there with Toews, at least not yet. I will concede, that over the past month he's prob been as good or better than Toews but i need to see a lot more of the same to consider him as good as JT.
Both great hockey players, but Toews is at the very least, a slight step up on Kes. Pretty sure there's not a gm in the leauge who'd take Kesler over Toews if they could choose one to start a new team with.
Pretty sure the numbers on this poll will swing in JT's favour before i rise tomorrow morning!
Then guest 6583 (me), gave a little bit of his thoughts because Pasty7 asked for arguments for those who voted Kesler, and here is your last post on the subject:
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 17:54:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pasty, i think i get your point, but i'm not sure i agree with it at all times. I assume the answer you were looking for was Henrik and Toews? Aside from those possibly being arguable, it's tough to compare like that. Here's an example. Crosby is Pittsburgh's best player and Kessel is prob Toronto's best, agreed? If so, does that make Kessel is better than Malkin? Do you follow what i'm saying? A teams second best player is not always inferior to another team's best?
I'm not even claiming Kesler is the Canucks best. Some might say Henrik or Daniel, some maybe even Luongo?
The more i post on this thread, the more i have to go back and make sure i really picked Toews as i always seem to be backing Kesler!
I know you're still picking Toews over Kesler at the moment, but I'm just making poolers notice that this was a good debatable question...
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 22:15:07
|
Exactly, and i gave you credit for a good question posted, however, i don't know the point of your last post. You supplied a couple of my past posts, and my thoughts haven't changed. I only mentioned the fact that i was quite defensive of Kesler (and one might think he was my choice had they not read my first post) as part of the argument that they in fact are VERY close, at least this year.
Nothing that i've said in those posts has changed, i was simply enjoying the debate and making sure that false statements to back up a claim (ie. Kesler is better at faceoffs) didn't go unnoticed.  |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 23:11:29
|
I know I know, just concerning the (now) 60%/40% votes and to show that it's defendable. Annnyywwayyss, enough said on this topic. Talk to ya soon, in the next poll.
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2011 : 23:16:15
|
But still...how come am I a rare one who argued in favor of Kesler, while 40% voted for him. Where are the others?
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 07:58:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Go_Habs_Go
What a horrible argument. Here are Henrik Sedin's stats for his first three seasons :
2000-2001: 82 games, 29 points
2001-2002: 82 games, 36 points
2002-2003: 78 games, 39 points
Here are Jussi Jokinen's stats for his first three seasons:
2005-2006: 81 games, 55 points
2006-2007: 82 games, 48 points
2007-2008: 72 games, 42 points
Does this make Jussi Jokinen a better overall player than Henrik Sedin, who won the Art Ross last year ? Is this really comparing apples to apples ?
And the question was in terms of present, not past, not future.
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
You kmissed the point.
Your comparison is AFTER the ENTIRE (almost) careers of your two guys here.
My comparison is based on Toews' career up to TODAY, (three years in the league) and Kesler's carrer at Three years.
Same goes to Mario66 - you're comparison if after a longer carrer.
And also, the fact the Kesler did not start on the top line as Toews did (as some mentioned) does not mean Kesler did not have the same opportunity as Toews did - it means Toews is a better hockey player at DAY 1 of his carrer, and he's been putting up numbers to this day confirming that. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 09:03:44
|
quote:
And also, the fact the Kesler did not start on the top line as Toews did (as some mentioned) does not mean Kesler did not have the same opportunity as Toews did - it means Toews is a better hockey player at DAY 1 of his carrer, and he's been putting up numbers to this day confirming that.
Or it means they both joined very different teams at very different times.
Kesler did not have the same opportunities as Toews did - when he joined the Canucks in 05/06, they already had an established first line (and second line at the time). The only slot for Kesler was as a 3rd line checking centre, which is fine, its where many young players start their careers. And he did just fine.
Toews on the other hand, joined the Hawks at a very low point in 07/08, along with another highly touted rookie Kane. They had no real first line at the time, and had been failing in years past (4 consecutive years with no playoffs, and finishing 26th overall the year before). CHI put both of their highly touted prospects on the first line as part of a rebuild, and it worked great for both of them.
Had Kesler been with CHI in 07/08 instead of Toews, I wonder if he might have been put on the first line. Had Toews been with VAN in 05/06, there is no doubt he would not have started as a first line centre.
BTW, the numbers that Toews puts up are not all that spectacular. He has never gone over 70 points in a season, despite playing on the first line and first PP unit with a highly offensive team and great offensive partners. Kesler on the other hand did better than that last year playing on the second line with neither of the Sedin's, and second PP unit. If you're doing a numbers game alone, kesler wins this battle for now. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 11:09:54
|
I think people are missing a very important note that has not be argued and that is Toews wins. He wins everything. He wins all the time. He wins on literally every team he has ever played on.
This may not be relevant to some but it is to me as not only does he win but most often he has been the very best player on his team and in many cases the very best player period.
This was really solidified for me at the Olympics as he was the best player for Canada who was the best team on the ice. Kesler was not the best player for his team. Toews did it at the World Juniors, Kesler did not. Toews did it in the Cup final, Kesler has not (yet).
The it matters the most, Toews gets it done. Throwing all the stats, age, opportunities, and what ever else out the window. When your team needs to win and you can put Toews or Kesler on the ice, I picked Toews every single time. At least for now. If Kesler continues to improve this is far mor difficult. However, based on track record it's Toews.
The best players in the world win. Period. That is Toews. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 11:17:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think people are missing a very important note that has not be argued and that is Toews wins. He wins everything. He wins all the time. He wins on literally every team he has ever played on.
Beans, this certainly wasn't missed by me. That's one of the reasons i would pick him as well. Some will say that he's been on better teams (WJC's, Chi the past couple, Cdn Oly Team, etc) but he certainly has stepped up. Another argument i heard, not here on this site but through friends, was that at the Olympics, he wasn't playing top line and facing top defensive pairings. I was about to yell POPPYCOCK at my buddy, but thought better of it . Anyway, imo, while he might not have been top line the entire tournament, we're talking about the best players in the world in the tournament. Dmen1 and 2 aren't that much better on the elite teams than 3-6 and while Kesler did play well at the Olympics, it clearly was Toews who shone! |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 13:07:27
|
Guest 7752... if the comparison is for the present, then why are you talking about day 1. Same thing i did for the Sedin/jokinen comparison.
And Beans, I totally agree that the best players are winners. That said, if the comparison between the two players is for now...Cant we agree that Kesler is more of a winner than Toews? There's nothing going well for Toews' s team at the moment. I'm talking about this season of course.
Yesterday: Toews is the best player in the last couple years (world junior, stanley cup,etc) in comparison to Kesler
Today: who is really a winner between Toews and Kesler ? We cant tell, that's why statistics are pertinent.
Tomorrow: We will see
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 14:07:53
|
GHG, i kinda get where you're going with this, but c'mon, Crosby's had one point in his last 3 games and is now hurt. Alex Burrows has 4pts in his past 2 games. Does this mean "TODAY" that Burrows is better than Crosby???
Goes both ways....
In my opinion, this question "should" be, if you were starting the playoffs right now, which guy would you pick? Or maybe even, if you were entering the playoffs today, which guy would you pick?
Of course, it is your poll question, however, that's what i was getting at earlier in the thread, that these questions, when not written/proposed 100% specifically, can be looked at in various ways.
|
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 16:48:55
|
i was more in the "today" meaning this season. Whatever lol
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 22:09:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6911
TSN has Kesler ranked 9th in the NHL currently. Toews is ranked 23rd.
Just sayin'.
http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?ID=10467
This is a fantasy ranking based on what a player will do for your fantasy or pool team. This has zero relevance to the game of hockey and who is a better all around player.
Just sayin'
Kesler had another hat trick tonight and is on pace for 48 goals this season. 39 points in 40 games. 5th overall in goals scored (only Crosby, Stamkos, D. Sedin and Sharp have more). But still not worth $5M a year. Denial clearly isn't just a river in Egypt, eh Beans?
Are you choking on the feathers from all the crow you've eaten? Just sayin'. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 23:08:14
|
Kesler was awesome once again tonight, 2 of the 3 goals were great tips in front, and he could have had a couple of assists to go with the hattrick, 2 missed open nets for Raymond on beautiful Kesler passes. Everyone was clicking tonight, they had trouble picking the 3 stars...
Hey, I saw Toews scored in the shootout and had 1 SOG during the game. Good for him
If Kesler hits 48 goals this year 5M will seem like an absolute bargain. I don't think he'll keep this pace up, but I think 35g/75pts is a reasonable expectation if he plays the full year. |
|
|
|
polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2011 : 23:50:30
|
I want to see Kesler put up that performance against a real team.
Now, I didn't watch the game (I was playing hockey tonight, not just watching it...), but Vancouver was playing the Oilers.
I'm no rocket scientist, but First vs. Worst, and Kesler scores a hattrick, for me is not that special(as far as evidence in comparing against Toews).
Looking at the boxscore, I see some ridiculous stats supporting that EDM must have stunk it up.
37-17 on faceofffs? Getting 70% in faceoffs means the other guys must have been looking the other way when the puck dropped.
33-18 in hits? One team must have been tired and/or lazy. Let you figure out which one.
2/4 on the PP? Why not just let EDM flip a coin to see whether VAN should have got a goal after a penalty call.
4/4 on the PK? EDM was on a powerplay? Naaaaah, VAN was just too lazy to send the 5th guy over the boards.
And, EDM was playing the second of back-to-back games.
Let's see Kesler score a hattrick on a better, fresher team. |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 00:23:17
|
Kesler's december 15th hat trick was against columbus (who were about 5th in the western conference at that time, and who are still a challenging team) and as said previously, he's the 5th best goal scorer. Are his goals always against bad teams? No, com on. Kesler is having an insane season and we have to give him credit. If the canucks (and their players) score, it's not because they play against the oilers, it's because they rock. They won 8 straight games and Kesler always was part of the wins. Whatever you guys say on Toews or Kesler...I think it's relevant to say Kesler is having a better season, and so are the canucks
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 06:00:23
|
quote:
Whatever you guys say on Toews or Kesler...I think it's relevant to say Kesler is having a better season, and so are the canucks
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
He is having a great season, and his greatness is helping his team, while his team is feeding his greatness too....
However - as a response to your original question, Toews is the better all around player.
And I'm sure when it comes to captains picking teams - Toews will be picked ahead of Kesler! |
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 12:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
I want to see Kesler put up that performance against a real team.
Crosby's 2 hat tricks this year came against Atlanta and Calgary. Stamkos's 2 hatty's came against Atlanta and Philly. Of these teams, I would only consider Philly to be a "good" team.
The point is this: it takes SKILL to score goals, even against s***ty teams. And if you were watching last nights game, you would've seen a couple of SICK redirection goals by Kesler that few, if any, goalies would've stopped.
The fact that it was against the Oilers is COMPLETELY irrelevant.
BTW, the last time Kesler played Philly, he had 2G and 1A. The last time he played Detroit (which is the team he'll play tonight) he had 3A.
Are those teams "real" enough for you? IDIOT.... |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 17:48:49
|
quote:
I want to see Kesler put up that performance against a real team.
Now, I didn't watch the game (I was playing hockey tonight, not just watching it...), but Vancouver was playing the Oilers.
I'm no rocket scientist, but First vs. Worst, and Kesler scores a hattrick, for me is not that special(as far as evidence in comparing against Toews).
Kesler has been performing this way all year, and has been particularly good over the last 20 games (where the Canucks are a 17-1-2). Some other notable games:
- 3 pts (2g, 1a) vs PHI, Dec 27
- 3 pts (3a) at DET, Dec 22
- 3 pts (3g) vs CBJ, Dec 15
- 3 pts (2g, 1a) vs ANA Dec 8
Toews was playing eastern "powerhouse" OTT last night... should he not have had more points against such a weak opponent?
quote:
Looking at the boxscore, I see some ridiculous stats supporting that EDM must have stunk it up.
37-17 on faceofffs? Getting 70% in faceoffs means the other guys must have been looking the other way when the puck dropped.
VAN has been killing on faceoffs all year long, regardless of the opponent. They lead the league with a 56.5 FO%. EDM was just the latest victim.
quote:
33-18 in hits? One team must have been tired and/or lazy. Let you figure out which one.
Last night was VAN's 5th game in 8 nights (tonight will be 6 in 9), EDM was playing a back-to-back. I'd say both were pretty tired, or had reason to be.
quote:
2/4 on the PP? Why not just let EDM flip a coin to see whether VAN should have got a goal after a penalty call.
VAN has been lighting up the PP all year regardless of opponent, that was their 13th multi-PP goal game this season to lead the league. They lead the league in PP effectiveness this year. I suppose it helps that EDM has the lowest PK%.
Kes scored at least one of his goals on that awesome PP.
quote:
4/4 on the PK? EDM was on a powerplay? Naaaaah, VAN was just too lazy to send the 5th guy over the boards.
Been doing it all year, VAN is 3rd in the league in PK%. Kesler is a big part of why.
quote:
And, EDM was playing the second of back-to-back games.
VAN was playing its 5th in 8, and has only had 2 days off since last Saturday. Last night was their 4th game this week and it was only Friday.
So, whats your point with this? That Kesler can only score against weaker opponents? Really? You don't get 75 points in a season unless you can score against all your opponents on a failry regular basis. The team beat EDM last night that is for sure, but Kesler's performance, once again, was front and centre in that beatdown. |
|
|
|
Guest7694
( )
|
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 18:20:06
|
Please lets not break down which points he got against which teams. Are we really going to look at Crosby and be like, oh he got 5 points against This team, so those dont count.
Also, back to the Olympic topic, I am going to say that Kesler was indeed the American's best player. Now I did not watch all their games, but maybe other than Ryan Miller, he loked like he was the best player dawning the USA jersey. He was getting lots of playing time, even at the crucial moments, such as the end of games no matter if they were winning or losing. He also showed some real determination and grit, not to mention scoring the nicest empty netter goal I've ever seen, against Canada... okay fine not that impressive. But it was watching him play during the Olympic tournament that really made me unsure of who I thought would make a better Canuck captain (other choice being Henrik of course). Excellent leadership for the Americans is what I saw from him.
The leadership argument was brought up several times in favor of Toews but I would be inclined to throw it the other way. He plays a hard fast style that really rubs off on others. It really depends on what kind of a leadership role needs to be filled but if you're looking to get your team fired up then Kesler would be your man, and there aren't many others I would pick ahead of him in that regard. Toews is a good leader, but maybe for other things. The guy barely shows any emtion. Ice cold veins.
And as far as Winning goes, if you look at all the teams Toews and Kesler have respectively been on, it's a no brainer that Toews has been on the better team every time. And I mean every time. I'm not saying that he had nothing to do with the winning ways, as was accurately mentioned, he is often the best player. But every time he has had an A-Class supporting cast. And I mean every time.
So like, Kesler is as good a leader or wutevr dan Taves, and like wuz also da best player 4 team USa n s***and also like may-b Keslr haznt 1 anytin yeet but like, hes nevr bin on like a soopr teem yet. Until now. Let's f***in bring er home, eh! And by home, I mean somewhere it's only been once before, and not even by the same guys... (Vancouver...)! |
|
|
|
polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 18:21:35
|
Thank nuxfan!
That is the response I wanted!!!
And, it goes to show that playing on one of the best, if not the best team in the NHL right now really helps your stats.(But playing against my favourite team this year helps any opponent's stats)
P.S.:
@Nuxfan:
I'm not stupid, I wasn't trying to prove Kesler can only score against weaker opponents. Besides, 1 game is by no means proof of anything whatsoever. One game may supplement evidence for a proof, but rarely can be the full and only proof. And even then, remember, "correlation does not imply causation." |
|
|
|
Guest4278
( )
|
Posted - 01/08/2011 : 21:45:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Go_Habs_Go
Whatever you guys say on Toews or Kesler...I think it's relevant to say Kesler is having a better season, and so are the canucks
So Kesler is as good as Datsuyk this year. I'd pick Pavel for the next 3 years. How about Backstrom of the Caps. You would have choosen Kesler over him because statistically Kesler is having a better season than Backstrom for this one single season?
This would also mean you would choose Byfuglien over Lidstrom, Keith or Doughty this year? Say you had first pick for a defencemen, who would you pick this season? You and Atlanta fans (are there any?) would likely be the only ones picking Dustin.
Unlike a hockey rink, your argument holds no water.
Toews over Kesler past, present and the foreeable future. |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 00:21:16
|
Guest 4278... you gotta step your game up a little. We are talking in terms of this season. And yes i would pick Kesler over injured Datsyuk. I wont repeat the arguments in his favor, because this topic has been going on for about a week, and everything was said. Kesler is the most used forward of the best nhl team of the season.
Nuxfan, thank you for that post, very good.
Guest 7694, thanks for the leadership arguments.
And thanks for everybody supporting Kesler, and noticing (finaly) that he's a tremendous hockey player.
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 00:27:49
|
So Kesler is as good as Datsuyk this year. I'd pick Pavel for the next 3 years. How about Backstrom of the Caps. You would have choosen Kesler over him because statistically Kesler is having a better season than Backstrom for this one single season?
We're not (only) talking about statistics bro...
And no I wouldnt pick Byfuglien over these guys (eventhough in a points pool he would be better), cause he's not a better defenceman, and he's not making his team win (while Kesler does, and Toews doesn't).
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Guest0991
( )
|
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 11:39:25
|
| Chicago over Vancouver in the first round. 6 games. Toews is clutch! |
|
|
|
Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 12:47:16
|
| wow now Kessler is better than Crosby and Datzyuk TOO!!! Kesslers best finnish anywhere is second period!! He is having a great start to his year granted.. But to be compared to the elite players mentioned here?? IMO he hasn't done enough.Parise was the best American BTW. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 13:53:12
|
I just want to throw a couple of things out there:
Firstly, to the argument that Toews has played on better teams through his career (NCAA, WJC, Chicago) and the fact that he has won everywhere is because he has played on better teams. Answer me this:
If Toews has played on the best teams and Kesler has not, and Toews has been the best player on better teams when Kesler has never been the best player on any team he has been on, what does that say???
Secondly, think about this for a second.
If Kesler and Toews were traded straight up tomorrow and Toews played in Kesler's spot in Vancouver and Kesler played in Toews spot in Chicago, does either team get better?? If so, why??
Finally, it is virtually impossible to argue against Kesler today. He is one of the top 5 players on the planet over the past 40 games. He is absolutely on fire. However, one can not gauge the entire career on the past 40 games. He has been a very good player for a long time and a great player for a short time. His playoff performance has been average and he has never been known as a clutch player.
Today, I still take Toews. In the next year to two it might change, especially if Kesler continues to play as he has recently. Watching the Det/Van game last night, Kesler was the best player on the ice. No doubt. Far better player today than he ever has been. But he still has something to prove to me and that's to produce when it counts.
We'll see this spring. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 01/10/2011 07:03:04 |
|
|
|
Guest9921
( )
|
Posted - 01/09/2011 : 16:04:48
|
| Who is Chicago's best player? it could be Toews, Sharp, Keith, Hossa, Kane, Boland, Seabrook or Campbell !! That's just naming a few. NO other team can match the Hawks on paper, Sure they're having a rough year, due to injuries, but they will be there for the long playoff run!! Comparing Kesler to Toews is an absolute joke and like many have said, Toews is only 22 and is a CANADIAN!!! Not ONE coach or GM in the NHL would choose Kesler over Toews and that includes those in Vancouver! |
|
|
|
Guest0856
( )
|
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 01:07:57
|
^that guy makes no sense. Someone get him pokemon yellow so he can go play that for a while.
Also, Beans, I was saying that I believed Kesler to be the best player on the US team. It seems that it was recently that he has found himself and hopefully it continues. Unless you dont like the Canucks. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 07:06:45
|
Regardless of if I like the Canucks or not I don't believe that Kesler has been the best player on any team he has played for up until this season. Even this season, I would argue that either Sedin and Luongo has been as valuable to the Canucks as Kesler has been.
He is absolutely coming into his own this year and is entering that elite group of players in the NHL. However, that's 40 games. It's gotta happen for a longer period of time. He could fall of the face of the earth tomorrow and be a marginal player (a la Cheechoo) for all we know.
Over the same period of time Toews has been more successful and the best player on the most successful teams on the planet. Until Kesler can catch up, it's still Toews. |
|
|
|
HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 10:12:53
|
You can't win the Cup on 40 games. Yes, Kesler is having an amazing season, so far. But Toews has won on EVERY level you can win on as far as hockey is concerned. He's younger than Kesler and his resume has a few extra pages on Kesler's.
Ask me again in a couple years and I may think different, but right now, all my Hawk-loving bias aside, the clear pick is Toews.
He brings something intangible to every team he plays on. Goals and Assists might not be his strength compared to Kesler... but winning is.
This list of players that have won as much as this kid is a very very short one. How anyone can dismiss those accomplishments half a season after he won the Cup and Conn Smythe is beyond me.
My 2c.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
|
|
|
Guest9921
( )
|
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 16:48:49
|
| One more thing about Toews....... he has the second most shootout goals scored amongst ALL active players. Ahead of all the elite players in the league. I'm not sure where Kesler stands in this group? |
|
|
|
Guest9921
( )
|
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 17:42:33
|
| Checked many top 50 Polls. TSN's 2010 poll has Toews ranked 3RD and Kesler 46TH. Many polls don't even rank Kesler!! This should end the argument!! Check for YOURSELVES!! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Toews vs Kesler 
