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 Kulemin vs. Gleason vs. The Code Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  10:39:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0ALTJyj5I

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=350999

Above is a link to the scuffle between Kulemin and Gleason and an article fromTSN.ca about the fight,

Does Tim Gleason break the "CODE" in fighting Kulemin a sniper not a fighter?

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker

Choices:

Yes
No
there is no code!

(Anonymous Vote)

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  10:47:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
right before Gleason drops Kulemin, Kulemin got a couple of shots into Gleason's face - with his glove on. To me that says "I'm ready to fight", and whatever code exists is out the door. If anything, its more of a "what were you thinking" moment for Kulemin.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  11:05:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have to agree. It's unfortunate for Kulemin that he got stung by a good punch but that's what can happen. Just ask Kevin Bieksa. He got it worse than that on Sat night and he's a fighter!!!
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  11:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am in agreement with the vancouver group had Gleason just wound up and punched him then i'd justify the code. But the second a guy starts punching you or giving you a face wash with his stinky dirty glove it becomes survival of the fittest. Kulemin simply bit off more then he could chew and unfortunately payed the consequences. Next time kulemin will just stick to keeping his guy out of the melay as oppose to getting physically involved.

Lemieux owns Gretzky
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TheRC
Rookie



105 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  11:20:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kulemin was getting his shots in before Gleason smoked him. If he wasn't intending to fight, he shouldn't have been so agressive, and if he was, he should have got his gloves off faster.

I don't think I'd even have given Gleason the penalty.

"If at first you don't succeed, you fail"
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  11:26:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Since I saw dumbass Carcillo beat on Gaborik, there is no code.

"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.ö - Brian Burke
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  11:41:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I don't think I'd even have given Gleason the penalty.



If you punch someone with your glove off, thats a pretty mandatory penalty - I'm fine with him getting a penalty. I'm not sure why he got a game misconduct though, it seems pretty stiff given that Kulemin only got a roughing minor.
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect



69 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  12:30:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two things right with the fight:
(1) Kulemin pushed around Gleason, Gleason responded.
(2) Gleason responded with his gloves OFF

Three things worng with the fight:
(1) Beauchemin was right next to Kulemin at the start of this fight - as the veteran, he could have "helped" his rookie play mate
(2) Same for Phaneuf - he shows up at the end of the fight and "talks" to Gleason... what a wimp... DROP YOUR GLOVES Mr. Phaneuf.... !!!
(3) Wilson's response to post-game question on this: Kulemin got what he deserved... What a moron Wilson is.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  12:44:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have not watched the video yet so this is based only on the written story. All I can say is:

1) If you are engaged with a player and punches are being thrown with gloves on, a player better be ready for the gloves to come off.

2) A sucker punch is a hit to an unsuspecting player. When you are engaged with a player, it's not a sucker punch.

3) MacArthur's comments about Kulemin not being a fighter are a joke. You see it night after night in the NHL. When there is a scrum, the fighters grab the fighters and the non-fighters go and have tea in the corner. If Kulemin didn't want to dance, he should not have been on the dance floor.


4) Kulemin is a Leaf. Isn't there an old rule that isn't followed anymore than says you much punch any Leaf players in the face whenever possible??? Gleason was just following the rules.
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Guest4050
( )

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  13:14:01  Reply with Quote
think he deserved it...think he was too slow and didnt take his gloves off and got caught, whos fault is that??? not gleason i agree gleason should have gotten the extra 2 min penalty not a misconduct only the extra because puss boy didnt have his gloves off and apparently doesnt know how to fight lol
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Guest9836
( )

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  13:22:58  Reply with Quote
Gleason was incredibly quick to get the gloves off, Kulemin got popped, lesson learned by Kuley.

Should Gleason have squared up?maybe, but he's getting punched in the face already (albeit gloves on), it was heat of the moment, so it's hard to say he broke any code.

MacArthur's rag dolling of Larose was more entertaining. Reminiscent of Chara tossing McCabe around like a little boy (a particularly hilarious memory).
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  16:09:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if you punch a face, expect a punch in your face... life lesson learned.
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  16:28:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
(2) Same for Phaneuf - he shows up at the end of the fight and "talks" to Gleason... what a wimp... DROP YOUR GLOVES Mr. Phaneuf.... !!!
(3) Wilson's response to post-game question on this: Kulemin got what he deserved... What a moron Wilson is.



Can't believe I am going to agree with anyhing 7752 posts but I too have to agree. Phaneuf needs to protect his teamate here. I realize Kulemin was being very aggressive but Phaneuf and others need to notice that its one of their teamates that does not fight and come to his defence. If anything the code of protecting your teamate was not followed.
Also Wilson was not moron, he said he saw nothing wrong with the fight. Basically he agreed with everyone who has posted on here. I guess you are calling everyone here a moron as well.
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Guest4675
( )

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  19:43:31  Reply with Quote
Bieska is a Punk and got what was coming to Him.. Gleason Punch was awesome Love it Great Punch ..
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  19:52:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why all the critizism of Phaneuf and Beauch ? Kuleimen is a big kid, he ripped Gleason twice and got ripped back. End of story.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  21:40:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure the Leafs don't want Kulemin fighting. And I'm pretty sure Phaneuf knows that too.

Alex Edler is a big boy too, but I woudn't want him dropping the gloves in any situation. European players are generally not brought up with fighting in their development, unless they spent time in North America during junior. Either way, there are very few that are capable fighters.

Edited by - nuxfan on 01/25/2011 21:42:26
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1618 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2011 :  01:27:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm late to the party here but have to post because I think it's so rediculous. As everyone has already stated, Kulemin deserved to get dropped. If there is a code here Gleason respected it by allowing the poor boy to get a few shots in before giving him a spanking. If Kulemin hadn't have been all bambi-like and skating himself into the boards then Gleason probably wouldn't have gotten a misconduct - although it was a Toronto game and perhaps the refs were being a little extra careful. Speaking of which, if this wasn't a Toronto game we probably wouldn't even be having this debate right now.

Also, I agree thatáat a young ageáKulemin learned a valuable lesson that he'll never forget (especially with the crazy media coverage of it all) And this will save many young players at all levels of hockey from having to learn the same lesson the hard way - assuming they were paying attention.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2011 :  05:20:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's funny, because I watched this game EXCEPT for the first period when this event occurred. And before I saw the replay, from what everyone said, I would have agreed that Kulemin probably just got unlucky and should have been prepared more to fight if he was giving shots to Gleason.

But after watching it . . . the line is a bit fuzzy here, frankly, between what some people are calling punches by Kulemin (with gloves on) and what I viewed as a push with his hands up too high. The way I read it, Gleason was extremely excited to have any reason close enough to take a few swipes at Kulemin, and Kulemin came close enough to the line for him to do so.

I certainly wouldn't have called Kulemin's swats/swipes "punches" though, not sure how one can say that after watching the video.

All that being said, I think the penalty was appropriate, and fair enough for Kulemin, he should learn his lesson from this incident.

But the BIG thing for me was Phaneuf and Beauchemin standing around doing NOTHING to help him out, or take on another guy afterward . . . as Nick Kypreos said on the FAN590 the other day, that is EXACTLY the kind of situation where it's worth it to be the third man in and stick up for your teammate(s).

I was sorely disappointed by Phaneuf's non-actions, and Beachemin . . . I can almost forgive him for thinking that Phaneuf would be the guy to step in there, but really, it should have been an automatic reaction and there was none.

I really hope this incident is not indicative of the Leafs dressing room.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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T-RAV
Top Prospect



Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2011 :  05:22:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with most of you, in that if you throw a punch be prepared to receive a punch.

And I agree with Seventy7fifty2 that Phaneuf never should have let it go down that way. Hell if you aren't worth what you're paid, you'd better do something more to earn your paycheque.

As for Wilson...are you really surprised? He is known for throwing his players under the bus. But what do you want him to say? Next time maybe Kuley will make the first one count.

I guess when Leigh has his/her nose broken, he/she can see clearly unlike the rest of us. But to think that this is the reason for the game misconduct or extra penalty minutes is just silly. Refs are supposed to be unbiased, not feel sorry for the guy that got beat up.

Even though I am a Leafs fan, I still think the penalties were lopsided. It should have been either Match Roughing penalties, or Match Fighting Majors.

Peace and Respect
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Guest9052
( )

Posted - 01/26/2011 :  05:31:18  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leigh

Speaking of which, if this wasn't a Toronto game we probably wouldn't even be having this debate right now.



Open your eyes Leigh, Patsy started this thread, and Patsy is a Habs fan. Incidents happen in all sorts of games, but I guess nobody posts about any of that though, cuz its not a Leafs game. According to your logic anyway.

P.S. Nobody here, including Leafs Fans think that Kulemin should get all the free shot he wants!

Peace and Respect
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2011 :  06:25:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leigh

I'm late to the party here but have to post because I think it's so rediculous. As everyone has already stated, Kulemin deserved to get dropped. If there is a code here Gleason respected it by allowing the poor boy to get a few shots in before giving him a spanking. If Kulemin hadn't have been all bambi-like and skating himself into the boards then Gleason probably wouldn't have gotten a misconduct - although it was a Toronto game and perhaps the refs were being a little extra careful. Speaking of which, if this wasn't a Toronto game we probably wouldn't even be having this debate right now.



Deserved to get dropped? No. Deserved to get a roughing minor, if Gleason had not retaliated? Yes.

Kulemin plays pretty hard, and the Bambi name calling is totally unnecessary here, really.

But you do have one think dead to rights, that guys like T-RAV just do not comprehend: if it wasn't a Toronto game, we certainly wouldn't be talking about.
Also, I agree thatáat a young ageáKulemin learned a valuable lesson that he'll never forget (especially with the crazy media coverage of it all) And this will save many young players at all levels of hockey from having to learn the same lesson the hard way - assuming they were paying attention.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 01/26/2011 06:26:38
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1618 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  14:02:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by T-RAV

....I guess when Leigh has his/her nose broken, he/she can see clearly unlike the rest of us. But to think that this is the reason for the game misconduct or extra penalty minutes is just silly. Refs are supposed to be unbiased, not feel sorry for the guy that got beat up....


I'm refering to the fact that Leafs games get a little more scrutiny as the eyeballs watching are more widespread, and the NHL brass pays a little more attention. Also whenever a player gets popped and they flail around uncontrollably like Kulemin did the league (by way of the refs) needs to err on the side of taking action so that they appear to have the situation under control for the media; and for better or worse, they did.
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1618 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  14:19:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9052

quote:
Originally posted by leigh

Speaking of which, if this wasn't a Toronto game we probably wouldn't even be having this debate right now.



Open your eyes Leigh, Patsy started this thread, and Patsy is a Habs fan. Incidents happen in all sorts of games, but I guess nobody posts about any of that though, cuz its not a Leafs game. According to your logic anyway.

P.S. Nobody here, including Leafs Fans think that Kulemin should get all the free shot he wants!


sigh....I am not attacking Toronto or Toronto fans. I love our nation's capital What I mean is that in general our conversations tend to be by-products of the media. We debate things more when we have access to more information. In hockey our information comes mostly from (although not entirely) Toronto based media sources ie: CBC, TSN. This can skew the things we think are more important and therefore debatable - That is why we - from all across the country - are happily discussing an insignificant moment in NHL history.

And to your second point, I never said that anyone from Leaf nation said Kulemin should get free shots. I think that everyone in the forum is on the same page (and essentially everyone in the media as well) We're all good T-Rav. Peace and respect to you too.
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1618 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  14:46:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Deserved to get dropped? No. Deserved to get a roughing minor, if Gleason had not retaliated? Yes.

Kulemin plays pretty hard, and the Bambi name calling is totally unnecessary here, really....


Slozo, If you aggressively single out a person in a scrum and begin to punch him in the face repeatedy (yes, I know, with your glove on) then in the game of hockey you deserve to have the opposing player defend himself with force. AS PLAYERS WE ALL KNOW THIS. If you have chosen your battle poorly then you have no one to blame but yourself. Kulemin chose poorly. It was a fight that ended quickly and your boy was on the losing end, that's it, that's all. Now if he had managed to get a few shots in after the gloves were off then we'd be talking about what a good fight it was (or not talking about it at all)

As for the "bambi" comment, did you not watch him try to skate off the ice? He was out of control, a very dramatic moment, really one for the academy. I thought "bambi" described the act perfectly (I didn't think I was name-calling) And I wasn't at all refering to style of play so I'm not sure what you are getting at there.
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  14:52:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If cocking your arm back and attempting to deliver a stiff jab with a glove on to the face that clearly caused Gleason to move back is considered a swat / swipe then does that mean Gleason's heymaker would be deemed a love tap? By no means do i want to see a player get laid out but to say kulemin was trying to swat at Gleason not punch him is a little condescending in the favor of a leaf fan.

Lemieux owns Gretzky
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  19:11:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fair enoug Leigh . . . but seriously, I assumed that Kulemin was truly hurt when skating off, and did not automatically assume it was all an act, especially since it wasa Leaf. He is not the acting type at all, and you would know that if you watched as many Leaf games as I do.

Yeah, he chose poorly, I admitted as much . . . but Gleason also acted on an opening that was surely over-aggressive. Like I said as well, the line was blurry here, and I would have been satisfied with a penalty, one gamer at most.

And no, I really don't relish fights anymore at all, so I would not have joined in clinking beers to such a good fight if Kulemin had gotten good shots in.

I'd rather he score on the pp, that is the point of the game, after all, and I try to never lose sight of that.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest5806
( )

Posted - 01/27/2011 :  20:08:46  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by Beans15
[. All I can say is:


2) A sucker punch is a hit to an unsuspecting player. When you are engaged with a player, it's not a sucker punch.



Was smid suspecting?
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