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Guest5958
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 Posted - 02/19/2011 : 11:55:33
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Poll Question:
The Oilers have just placed Sheldon Souray on re-entry waivers. With all of the trades of late featuring defencemen and with teams (esp. Montreal, Vancouver) in desperate need of help on the blueline, will Souray get picked up at half price?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 12:33:41
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I hope he clears because with the number of injured defensemen in the NHL today he has more value now than he did at the start of the year. I know the Rangers were interested and took a look recently and decided against it. The Habs are hurt, the Canucks are hurt, Washington might be interested.
Anything in a trade would be value and the $2 million is would cost the Oilers on re-entry is peanuts.
Souray off the books is very valuable long term. |
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Guest5958
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Posted - 02/19/2011 : 12:42:35
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Yeah but I think the chances of the Oilers getting anything for Souray in a trade are remote. Unless some team's circumstances change drastically, or they are gunning for another dman and the deal falls through, why would anyone give up assets for Souray in the next week or so when they could pick him off the waivers for nothing right now?
I think best case scenario for the Oilers is that someone claims Souray off waivers and they can finally close the book on what was, in retrospect, a horrible signing. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 12:59:31
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I don't agree that it was a horrible signing as much as one with tons of injuries. No one can predict a player is going to get injured. It's a crap shoot. Furthermore, when Souray was healthy he did exactly what he was paid to do. His one healthy season in Edmonton was 23 goals and 53 points. In total, he played 144 games, had 30 goals, 46 assist, for 76 points. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Now, his attitude totally changed as well, but again, how can a team know that is going to happen when the player is signed. It's like saying Ottawa signing Heatley was stupid because he wanted to leave. There are things, believe it or not, that can not be predicted or accounted for.
Now, that being said I don't completely disagree with the point that a trade for Souray is unlikely. With that, it would actually be better if he didn't clear waivers and the Oilers sent him back down again. That way, 100% of the contract is off the Oilers books. If someone picks him up, it will cost the Oilers a couple of million. |
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Guest3138
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Posted - 02/19/2011 : 13:23:08
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| the habs know what he can do, I say he goes there |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 13:29:21
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| Surely someone would pick him up. The only reason he would be on re-entry waivers is if a deal is in the works and he would be easy pickins off waivers for a team needing veteran depth on the blueline. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 17:07:10
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Habs and Canucks are breaking Dmen at a record pace, but Van stated they're standing pat.
Montreal is running out of Dmen to choose from that won't cost an arm and a leg, so i agree he goes to Habs or he goes nowhere. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 20:49:11
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How much does Souray make in salary ? Whats so bad about him that the Oilers won`t play him ? ....or for that matter why doesn`t any other team show any interest in him ? obviously he is available to any team that wants him.
I haven`t really followed his exploits in Edmonton, just hear tidbits here and there on TSN. |
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Guest5958
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Posted - 02/19/2011 : 22:20:41
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Believe it or not, I agree that there are things that can not be predicted or accounted for, including injuries. Which is why I said that Souray was a horrible signing in retrospect. That is ex post, taking into account the things that could not be predicted or accounted for, like Souray's penchant for getting himself into fights and injuring himself in those fights, or his willingness to publicly demand a trade and thus instantly destroy his trade value.
Heatley, on the other hand, was acquired in a trade that was not particularly bad in retrospect, as Heatley played four relatively injury free seasons for the Senators, two of which saw him eclipse 100 points, all of which saw him perform at a high level, and although he was probably traded at diminished value, still brought a *reasonable* return. And the player they originally traded him for, Marian Hossa, put up lesser (though comparable) numbers for Atlanta and left Atlanta before Heatley ever left Ottawa. Not bad at all.
Putting that aside, is it true that if Souray clears waivers and is sent back down, the Oilers are off the hook for his contract, including $4.5 mil owed and $5.4 mil cap hit next year? If so, that would be ideal indeed. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 22:30:43
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Guest 5968- a contract is a contract, the player is obligated to be paid.
Souray will be paid his salary whether he plays in the NHL/AHL. If he is picked up on re-entry waivers, Oilers have to pay half of his salary.
If clears re-entry waivers, and still has to play in the AHL, the contract is not off the hook. (ie Wade Redden)
In fact, because he's not playing in the NHL, Souray makes more money, because there is no money subtracted that goes to NHL escrow! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2011 : 22:53:32
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quote:
How much does Souray make in salary ? Whats so bad about him that the Oilers won`t play him ? ....or for that matter why doesn`t any other team show any interest in him ? obviously he is available to any team that wants him.
Souray makes 4.5M with a cap hit of 5.4M, this year and next.
Souray burned his bridges with Oiler management at the end of last year by demanding a trade and criticizing management publically. Oilers tried to accomodate, no takers, and then felt they could not have him on the roster after what was said - they tried waivers, then re-entry in September, no takers, so down to the minors. He'll never play in EDM again, and if no one takes him, he'll play out his contract in the minors.
As for why no takers, I'm not sure. He's had injury problems for sure, and perhaps he's made himself out to be a bad apple in general, bad in the dressing room, etc. But if you needed a defenseman, you could do a lot worse than Souray @ 2.5M IMO, which is what it would cost the team picking him up. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2011 : 06:54:08
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Three big issues with Souray. Firstly, the injuries are the obvious and biggest issue. He has played only 3 of the past 7 seasons of anything close to a full seasons. In the past 3 seasons he has played 26 games, 81 games, and 31 games respectively. He was injured again this season during a fight in the AHL. His second biggest issue is that he has to work hard than you can imagine to keep up to the speed of the NHL game. He is slow skating and has horrible foot speed. He gets beats all the time defensively. Thirdly, he has 2 years left on a contract that is paying him over $4 million a season and is a cap hit of over $5 million a season.
The upside to Souray is clearly offensive. He has, without question, one of the 5 hardest shots in the NHL. Not only that, his shot is wicked accurate. When healthy, he is one of the top 5 defensemen in the NHL on the PP. Unfortunately, few if any teams are willing to spend $5 million of their cap for a one-dimensional defensemen. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2011 : 07:16:03
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If a team picks Souray up on re-entry waivers though, as nux pointed out his new team would only be on the hook for 50% of his salary/cap hit...so his cap hit would be $2.7 million for next season, the last on his current contract.
How has Souray looked this year in the AHL? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2011 : 07:55:10
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Does the cap hit change or just the pay??? Does 1/2 the cap go against the new team and 1/2 go against Edmonton??
I don't recall a situation that we can compare this to. Can anyone think of a player that has been picked up on re-entry waivers?? |
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Guest5958
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Posted - 02/20/2011 : 08:21:42
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| Sean Avery |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2011 : 08:47:10
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Both teams are responsible for 50% of the salary cap hit, and yes Sean Avery is one example. Avery is still a $1.9 million cap hit for the Stars, and the same for the Rangers.
The Rangers are in desperate need for an offensive defensemen & one who can run the PP. When Souray was mentioned as a possiblity earlier in the season, i didn't want him because of his high salary...but at $2.7 million, perhaps. I read last week where the Rangers were apparently out of the Souray hunt, but with him on re-entry waivers, who knows.
Anyone know when the deadline is for teams to put in a claim? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2011 : 09:47:26
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The Rangers were interested, but when watching his foot speed not keep up with the AHL game they opted out.
Thanks for the info on the how the salary cap hit works. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 09:51:50
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Souray has now cleared re-entry waivers. Foot speed, injury prone, bad attitude, whatever - obviously something is not good with him. I am surprised that someone was not willing to take a gamble for 2M in salary and 2.5M in cap space on him for the remainder of this year and next. Even if he only plays half his games due to injury, he's still a bargain at that price compared to the going rate for offensively gifted defensemen in the NHL.
I too read reports from scouts that he was slow, perhaps that was enough. Hopefully he can find a new home in the summer for the last year of his deal. |
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Souray on re-entry waivers 
