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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2007 : 15:27:35
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Speaking of baseless comments...
Apparently you don't believe in objectivity. |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 15:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Speaking of baseless comments...
Apparently you don't believe in objectivity.
That comment directed to me? Cheap hits don't belong in hockey...flying elbows are cheap hits...late or not. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 15:41:24
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I'm not talking about cheap hits, I'm talking about you saying that everyone would suddenly change their tune if it was their team's best player or their favourite player. Well you're right, a lot would, but I believe I can remain objective and I had nothing against Kaberle, so I have no biased reason to be saying what I am (refer to my previous posts).
It's easy to distinguish those who are objective in their opinions and those who aren't. Those who aren't objective and are whining because it was a player from their team say stuff like the first post. Those who are objective have an opinion and are backing it up with reasons. |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2007 : 15:47:48
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
I'm not talking about cheap hits, I'm talking about you saying that everyone would suddenly change their tune if it was their team's best player or their favourite player. Well you're right, a lot would, but I believe I can remain objective and I had nothing against Kaberle, so I have no biased reason to be saying what I am (refer to my previous posts).
It's easy to distinguish those who are objective in their opinions and those who aren't. Those who aren't objective and are whining because it was a player from their team say stuff like the first post. Those who are objective have an opinion and are backing it up with reasons.
You're right babs. I am a leaf fan and for that people will always assume that I am saying everything with a huge bias, lol. Thats fine. I am trying to stay objective but we are trying to make the playoffs and losing Kabby is a huge hit. I'll try to stay more objective  |
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Guest4161
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Posted - 03/09/2007 : 13:33:26
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| Whether it was a late hit or not it was a cheap shot to the head thats not tough hockey at all. Someone from the leafs team should have taken janssens head off after that happened. Kaberle did watch his pass which he should not have done hes in the nhl not pick up, but there is no room in the game for cheap shots like that |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 14:28:02
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People are saying that Kaberle should have had his head up, but it was a dirty hit. That's hippocritical to me. It like the ref calling a hooking penalty and a diving penalty in the same play. It's one or the other, not both. This hit was maybe a little late. Maybe. But as far as dirty, if Kaberle wasn't admiring his pass, he would have seen it coming and braced himself, right??
People, it's not both a cheap hit and Kaberle with his head down.
Watch this clip from the 80's, and there is nothing dirty about this hit at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oxwUo1T9E
It was clean, just another situation with a player with his head down. McCreary hit Gretzky directly in the head with his forearm/elbow as he was finishing the check. THIS WAS 100% GRETZKY TO BLAME. If his head was up, the hit would not have been as bad, or not to the head.
Just for you people out there that think people would change thier tune if it was the team's star. Well, Gretzky is my favorite player of all time, and I strongly feel it was Gretzky's fault.
So finally, Janssen hit might have been late, but not dirty. The blame must also go to Kaberle.
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ryschevy1
Rookie
Canada
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 14:53:25
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I agree with you 100% beans
GO OIL!!! YA!!! |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 14:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
It was not a cheap hit! Sure, it looked like Janssen hit him from behind, but Kaberle was too busy turning to watch his pass. The announcer nailed it when he said that Kaberle turned and was "lower than usual", so it looked higher than it was probably intended. And it was NOT late. You get 3 seconds or 3 strides, Janssen was following through on his check.
Even if it should have been a penalty, which it shouldn't, the puck had just moved to the neutral zone and you can see the ref looking up ice figuring the play in the Toronto zone was dead. As the announcer in that video said "I don't think anyone was watching it", including the officials. And an official can not call what he did not see.
The injury was terribly unfortunate, but even the announcer said "It wasn't a real late hit... it was one of them borderline plays." There is no way Janssen intended him to smash into the boards like that.
NHL'ers have to stop taking glory in their own plays and realize that there are 220 Lb men out there than might be following up on their checks. Kaberle could have easily avoided that hit, or brushed it off if he had listened to that old adage, "keep your head up".
And if anyone should be suspended, it's Darcy Tucker. Unless you are a dressed player, trainer, or coach, you are not allowed on the bench or in the tunnel to the bench. That is paramount to leaving the bench to join a fight, and Tucker should, by the letter of the law, get 3 games, if not 10.
And fancy that, Leaf fans getting bent all out of shape over a hit to one of their players. You wouldn't be so boisterous if Kerberle did the exact thing to Janssen... in fact their would be a thread in here praising Kaberle!
I was going to go on a rant like that but id rather just quote u and say i completly agree.
CANUCKS RULE!! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 15:02:44
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I have watched the replay many times, and if you look closely I think Kaberle saw him out of the corner of his eye, but thought that he might just skate by, so he was not prepared for the hit...
No elbow at all in the hit, just a late hit...
I am Leafs fan...
Light travels faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright, until they speak... |
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ryschevy1
Rookie
Canada
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 15:14:04
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Too bad Tucker is the only one with balls enough on that team to stick up for one of his guys. After Drury got hit, the whole team took after Neil. I believe there should be a price to pay for attempting to take out one of a teams best players. Too bad the only player left on the leafs to cheer for is Tucker. If you watch the Chris Simon hit, the whole Rangers team was ready to rock and stick up for the guy, just like Buffalo did. Cheers!
GO DARCY TUCKER, GO NEW YORK RANGERS, AND GO LINDY RUFF AND THE BUFFALO SABRES!!!!
GO OIL!!! YA!!! |
Edited by - ryschevy1 on 03/09/2007 15:17:34 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 15:41:52
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If you watched the game you would know why...
Light travels faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright, until they speak... |
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ryschevy1
Rookie
Canada
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 15:48:36
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Sorry Pucknuts, I didn't have the luxury of watching. I try to avoid watching Leafs games if I can help it. So can you fill me in as to why? Then I can post my rebuttal.
GO OIL!!! YA!!! |
Edited by - ryschevy1 on 03/09/2007 15:49:56 |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 17:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
quote:
Originally posted by Patchy
That hit was terribly cheap. Janssen hit him 4 seconds after he passed it off, it was a hit to the head and the real crime was that there was no penalty called on the play.
Then you are watching a completely different video. Watch the video again and count off the seconds from the time the puck leaves Kaberle's stick to the hit. You won't even make it to 2 seconds. Even in slo-mo you only barely make it to 2 seconds. Janssen did not take another stride towards him, and he did not turn into him, he just finished his check. If Kaberle had not turned, had not bent at the waist, and/or had kept his head up, none of this would have happened.
Check your pathetic Toronto bias at the door and watch it objectively... it was a clean hit. Except in Toronto of course, where hits like that are only clean when dished out by Maple Leaf players.
And Mik, that is exactly what I meant... Toronto fans, and only Toronto fans, would be lauding Kaberle - or any other Maple Leaf - if they had done the exact same thing to Janssen.
WOW dude, do you even watch hockey? Cause you can't be serious about what you said! He jumped at Kaberle!!! How is that a good hit???? Not to mention the elbow. Have you played hockey? What Cam did IS NOT finishing a hit. It's head hunting!!
he didnt jump at all
CANUCKS RULE!! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2007 : 17:29:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ryschevy1
Sorry Pucknuts, I didn't have the luxury of watching. I try to avoid watching Leafs games if I can help it. So can you fill me in as to why? Then I can post my rebuttal.
GO OIL!!! YA!!!
Then how can you comment on the hit? Oh you saw TSN, they don't show everthing only what they want you to see...
I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy…
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ryschevy1
Rookie
Canada
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2007 : 18:06:54
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Yes I did see TSN and sportsnet and The Score. I did see the hit and I don't understand why I had to watch they whole crappy game to make sense of the hit! Maybe you can enlighten me on this and back up what you're saying about watching the game.
GO OIL!!! YA!!! |
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guinman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 20:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
YOU ARE 6916?????????????? Wow. I found it weird that you always had so much to say but never registered, but now it makes sense... Anyways...
quote:
Originally posted by admin
If someone runs your best player you kick his ass. Its that simple.
I don't completely agree with your statement. If someone runs a team's best player, I find it logical and acceptable they would want to get even with him. What I DON'T agree with is someone (Souray) jumping on someone's back and whaling on him because that could be extremely dangerous (just ask Steve Moore). If Souray wants to get even, then fight him from the front, or nail him back, but don't resort to being a p**** and attacking someone from behind.
And Leigh I don't think it matters if a hit to the head is intentional, it's a hit to the head. If you knock a guy like Kaberle out for months because of post-concussion syndrome or something (just talking hypothetically), do you just say "Sorry I didn't mean to?". You are responsible for your body and your stick while you're on the ice and are accountable for any damages either does to anyone, whether it's intentional or not.
I'm the most passionate penguins fan you'll find and I'll submit this: If anyone hit Malkin clean like Army did, I'd do exactly what Souray did and I don't blame Sheldon one bit. Secondly, regarding coming from behind, Bertuzzi came announced and chased Moore for half the rink. If Moore had turned and faced Bertuzzi and hung on for life the mess wouldn't have happened. How can you compare Army to Moore? Army tried to turn around when he felt Souray coming, Colby dropped his gloves and even got a couple of half assed punches in. Colby knew Souray was coming for him - as Moore knew Bert was coming. Ya attacking from the front is preferable but sometimes guys just keep skating away. I'm pretty sure Army was trying to avoid Souray to draw a penalty. |
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guinman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2007 : 20:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4161
Whether it was a late hit or not it was a cheap shot to the head thats not tough hockey at all. Someone from the leafs team should have taken janssens head off after that happened. Kaberle did watch his pass which he should not have done hes in the nhl not pick up, but there is no room in the game for cheap shots like that
I hate the Leafs. But a spade's a spade. That hit was dirty to me not because the rule of body contact was broken by the book, but Kaberle's vunerability in that position. He switched back on his heels and was at a very dangerous position in regards to his distance from the boards. It looked pretty ugly and I'm hoping that Janssen didn't realize how vunerable Thomas actually was because I think any player with an ounce of dignity and respect for the game would let up if he could fully understand the consequences of finishing the check 'cleanly' if only by the book in circumstances like that. Things happen so fast at the NHL level. I hope Kaberle is back soon because he's a heck of a good player. Nobody deserves to be seriously hurt on a play like that.. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 11:08:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
It was not a cheap hit! Sure, it looked like Janssen hit him from behind, but Kaberle was too busy turning to watch his pass. The announcer nailed it when he said that Kaberle turned and was "lower than usual", so it looked higher than it was probably intended. And it was NOT late. You get 3 seconds or 3 strides, Janssen was following through on his check.
Even if it should have been a penalty, which it shouldn't, the puck had just moved to the neutral zone and you can see the ref looking up ice figuring the play in the Toronto zone was dead. As the announcer in that video said "I don't think anyone was watching it", including the officials. And an official can not call what he did not see.
The injury was terribly unfortunate, but even the announcer said "It wasn't a real late hit... it was one of them borderline plays." There is no way Janssen intended him to smash into the boards like that.
NHL'ers have to stop taking glory in their own plays and realize that there are 220 Lb men out there than might be following up on their checks. Kaberle could have easily avoided that hit, or brushed it off if he had listened to that old adage, "keep your head up".
And if anyone should be suspended, it's Darcy Tucker. Unless you are a dressed player, trainer, or coach, you are not allowed on the bench or in the tunnel to the bench. That is paramount to leaving the bench to join a fight, and Tucker should, by the letter of the law, get 3 games, if not 10.
And fancy that, Leaf fans getting bent all out of shape over a hit to one of their players. You wouldn't be so boisterous if Kerberle did the exact thing to Janssen... in fact their would be a thread in here praising Kaberle!
I was going to go on a rant like that but id rather just quote u and say i completly agree.
CANUCKS RULE!!
Please read the forum rules: http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=608
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PENSFAN8771
Rookie
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 22:06:02
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| Sure he should have had his head up. That, however, has no bearing on the fact that the hit was late and unnecessary. If someone is skating up ice and looks behind them to get a pass only to get crushed by an opposing defenseman, then it's fair to say his head should have been up. That's even what my coach told me when I suffered a concussion as a freshman playing varsity high school hockey. But if the guy turns around to be elbowed in the face, yeah, he should have had his head up, but there's still no reason for him to get elbowed. The two "should"s here are unrelated. Kaberle should have had his head up, but that has no bearing on the kind of contact that should have occured. |
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Guest4114
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:00:18
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| The point i was making is Kaberle would have been put at a greater advantage to defend the hit if he wasnt looking up ice at the cross ice pass he made. Janssens hit WAS cheap its not like he majorly used his elbow or whether he jumped off the ice or not. As a player in the Nhl you should respect your fellow players and not take open runs in the danger zone along the boards. There was no respect for Kaberles well being from Janssen, and thats what made it dirty. |
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Guest4114
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:04:27
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| Btw beans saying that the hit was MAYBE late is the only thing hypocritical so if your gonna try to pick someone apart who was seeing things from both sides try not to turn around and actually do what you were accusing me of |
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PENSFAN8771
Rookie
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 08:05:26
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So . . . the Devils play the Leafs on Tuesday in Toronto. Janssen sat out the rest of the game after the Kaberle hit to avoid retaliation. What will happen now:
1. Will there be retaliation against Janssen?
2. Should there be?
3. Will there be any attempt to stop it?
4. How could it be stopped?
The only question I know the answer to is the #2 - there shouldn't be any major retaliation. Hit him hard and clean a few times, I suppose, but he did serve his suspension. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 09:07:08
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| Tucker will fight him, end of story. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 09:59:01
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This is where the league needs to step in and make it clear that ANY retaliation that happens that is not considered a 'hockey' play will result in a suspension for the remainder of season/playoffs.
So a good body check is fine. A fight is fine. An elbow, stick, or blind punch should not be tolerated. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 11:37:29
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Guest 4114 what are you talking about?? My opinion it was questionable if the hit was late. My point was, if anything, it was a late hit. It was far from cheap. Take another read of that post. My point is that it is the responsibility of each player on the ice to have their head up and be aware of what's going on. If not, be prepared to get rocks. A la the hit Gretzky took in the video I put on.
I'm not trying to pick apart someone looking from both sides. My perspective is there is only one side. Late or not late. It was not a cheap hit. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/15/2007 11:38:10 |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2007 : 14:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by admin
This is where the league needs to step in and make it clear that ANY retaliation that happens that is not considered a 'hockey' play will result in a suspension for the remainder of season/playoffs.
So a good body check is fine. A fight is fine. An elbow, stick, or blind punch should not be tolerated.
I agree, the league should have learned by now that being PROactive as opposed to REactive will benefit everyone and hopefully keep the players a little safer. |
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Guest4106
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Posted - 03/16/2007 : 12:35:34
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| Bean Ya i guess if your point was keep your heads up point taken im sure kaberle knows what your talking about right now anyways.. |
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JerseyDevil
Top Prospect
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 00:43:23
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Everyone (including the announcers in several of the videos I've seen) that's saying Janssen's hit was late is not taking into account that half of the replay videos are in slow motion. Yeah, it's 3 seconds, if you count. But if you watch the full speed video, the hit was about 2 seconds after the pass, if that. Janssen takes exactly ZERO strides when delivering the check, and never leaves both his feet (the front of his left skate is still touching the ice, although I admit it's close). There was no elbow on the play, as is seen clearly from some of the better angles. Janssen hits Kaberle with his shoulder. Janssen was not looking around for "someone to say something to him," as the announcers in some of the videos are claiming. He saw that Kaberle was down, and was looking around to see if any of the refs noticed it. When a player is down, play is stopped rather than continuing around said player, and Janssen was waiting for one of the refs to notice Kaberle. He doesn't "stand there for about 10 or 15 seconds," either.
You can't argue with the facts here- the hit wasn't late, as it came 2 seconds after the pass and there were no strides taken; there was no elbow; and Janssen didn't jump into the check. Take a look at some of Scott Stevens' hits from the NJ Devils in previous years- the one that sent Kariya to the ice was very similar- both players were caught with their heads down, and because of this mistake, both were injured. In Kaberle's case, the boards were the real culprit- if you watch, his head slams violently into the boards after the hit, knocking him out. The hit itself didn't knock him out.
I'm not saying Janssen was necessarily right in hitting Kaberle, but it doesn't merit a penalty (or, in my opinion, a suspension- it seems like every time a player is hurt, someone is suspended nowadays. I thought it was generally understood that hockey is a rough sport). |
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Blubberboy
Rookie
155 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2007 : 11:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by jbraiter
what a douche
Seiriously. He is.
I wonder if he thought it was a *accident*.
go `nucks |
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Topic |
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Cam Janssen Hit on Tomas Kaberle 
