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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2011 :  18:56:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
. . . great start to a new beginning, or is it just "same 'ol, same 'ol" and we'll be fighting life and death to make the playoffs next year?

Give me your thoughts on the season which has now effectively ended for the blue and white.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2011 :  19:10:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll try and make my comment short here.

I raise my glass first to the amazing Grabovski. He was my first huge surprise of the season, and he has gone way above my expectations into a potential star player. The guy has more heart than Daredevil, seriously . . . and that hallmark game he had against the Bruins in Feb I believe made me proud to wear blue and white again. Thanks, Grabo - here's hoping you continue to make me raise a glass.

Kulemin - besides being a guy I picked in just about every hockey pool I could, you did not disappoint, and rose to my highest expectations. Well done, kid - keep it comin'.

Reimer, Reimer, Reimer . . . you came out of nowhere, like a dream, when the thought of actually having a true starting goaltender you could depend on was starting to look like a bad joke. You saved the Leafs season - not singlehandedly, mind you, but you were the key cog in it. Kid, you were awesome, and I raise my glass to you for letting me have dignity . . . although I will wear a Canadiens jersey for the playoffs (icon on pickuphockey), I get to watch Beans don the Leafs blue and white for a second straight year. Beauty!

Schenn - you were absolutely awesome, and for one year, looked like the second coming of Scott Stevens. A fantastic bounce back from last year's cruddy season, you are among the leaders in hits for d-men, played solid D, and showed some offensive flair at times. You look loads better than the third defenceman I thought you were . . . here's hoping it wasn't a mirage.

The rest of ye . . . most of ya played a bit piss poor at the start of the season, or at least, inconsistent. You all picked it up later though, and I'll forgive you for looking bad when we didn't have a true starting netminder. Great effort at the end, and backslaps all around - even to Komisarek (grudgingly).

I have a lot of hope for next season, and the future looks bright. I know Burke won't disappoint in the offseason, and I expect a player of note to come here - just have a feeling.

Beginning of a beautiful new beginning. Or something like that . . . poetry has left me and I am drunk.

slozo out.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
905 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2011 :  19:22:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Leafs performed well above my expectations this year. I anticipated them being a lottery team again this season, probably either 14th or 15th in the East.

For the first time in a long time, i actually feel good about the Leafs moving forward. They are starting to put together a lot the pieces to be a playoff contending team. They look to have found their goaltender in James Reimer. Luke Schenn had a strong bounce back season & has a bright future ahead of him. Dion Phaneuf finally started to rediscover his game in TO down the stretch & hopefully he can carry that over to next season. Up front, Grabovski, Kulemin & MacArthur all had excellent seasons, and Kadri will be on board full time next season. Hopefully they can land a #1 center this summer to play with Phil Kessel through either free agency or trade, which would give them 2 very good scoring lines.

The Leafs have always been my 2nd favorite team...it's been 15 years since both the Rangers & Leafs made the playoffs in the same season, hopefully that changes next spring!
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Guest4278
( )

Posted - 04/05/2011 :  20:16:09  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Give me your thoughts on the season which has now effectively ended for the blue and white.


First the negative. Finally, it's over. The bubble has burst. I wouldn't be able to stand the garbage that would be posted by overly excited fans planning the parade route even before the playoffs even started. Good night and good riddance. Now we can talk about real hockey and really good hockey teams.

To the positive. They were impressive at the end there. Confidence looked up all around. I really liked the fact that they didn't lose to get elminated, but that it took Buffalo's win to knock them out. Good on ya.

Unfortunately I will now have to dread of the hot air of the hopes and dreams of leafs fan all over again in June (and some even earlier - not you Slozo). If only leafs fans can promise that they keep it real and not plan the parade route for 2011-12, I'll be happy.
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Guest8149
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Posted - 04/05/2011 :  21:02:28  Reply with Quote
Yes, the Leafs season is done! And so it is for the Hurricanes, Devils, Islanders, Senators, Panthers, Avalanche and Oilers. And the season is probably done for the Stars and Flames too!

The one major difference between the teams mentioned (except for the Leafs), is that each team has made the Stanley Cup Finals in a league with more than five opponents.

It's been 44 years since the Leafs last won the cup, which was the last year of a 6-team NHL. Since then, the Leafs have not made a Stanley Cup Final, so forgive me when I express no surprise that the Leafs season is done. They were a very good team with only 5 NHL opponents, and a very advantageous draft system which favoured their franchise. Since then, they have faltered and struggled. They are the only remaining "original six" team which has not won a Stanley Cup since expansion.

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Guest2759
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Posted - 04/06/2011 :  03:51:12  Reply with Quote
I have seen this movie many times before. Play like crap till January and when you are basically eliminated from playoff contention go on a run that brings you a couple of points from the promised land.

I need proof the Leafs are for real and for me, that proof will be a couple of season making the playoffs. Although based on his his work this year which was great, Im not sold on Riemer yet. I could name you 5 goalies, some of which won the Calder that were flash in the pans.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  05:02:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will keep this short and sweet as I am sure the conversations about this team will go on for months. Two points:

1 - The Leafs are an enigma to most. The past few seasons have been disappointments, however the teams I thought would be better and make the playoffs finish near the bottom of the league and the teams I thought would be horrible and near the bottom of the league at the end of the season fight for a playoff spot. Weird.

2 - This Leafs are no where near being a team that can win games without their entire team firing on all cylinders. They simply do not have the elite level talent to make that happen. Say all the great things you want about Kessel and Reimer and Grabovski and Schenn and the seasons they had. But they don't have the talent to see their team having and off night but still having a chance to win. All the top teams in the NHL have that top level talent that will carry the load on those off night. The Leafs top talent is not good enough to do that.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  05:33:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8149

Yes, the Leafs season is done! And so it is for the Hurricanes, Devils, Islanders, Senators, Panthers, Avalanche and Oilers. And the season is probably done for the Stars and Flames too!

The one major difference between the teams mentioned (except for the Leafs), is that each team has made the Stanley Cup Finals in a league with more than five opponents.

It's been 44 years since the Leafs last won the cup, which was the last year of a 6-team NHL. Since then, the Leafs have not made a Stanley Cup Final, so forgive me when I express no surprise that the Leafs season is done. They were a very good team with only 5 NHL opponents, and a very advantageous draft system which favoured their franchise. Since then, they have faltered and struggled. They are the only remaining "original six" team which has not won a Stanley Cup since expansion.





Thanks for the hockey history lesson. Yes, I am aware that the Toronto Maple Leafs have not made a final since the 60's. Painfully aware.

But that is not the topic of discussion, is it, Leaf-hater?

Beans:
I partially agree with you about the Leafs being an enigma . . . which means, going by that logic, that the Leafs should fail miserably next year, right?

I smell a bet for next season already!

Or maybe we should wait until you are done wearing a Maple Leafs icon on this board AFTER the playoffs to get that talk going . . .

On your second point:
I find this to be a bit of a muddled point on your part. Frankly, the Leafs offence is still a bit short of where they want to be, yeah. The goaltending is not certain yet, no. But this league is so even at this point, that ANY TEAM can beat ANY OTHER TEAM, and I can solidly say that on most nights, even the best have to put in a very good effort to win.

Look at last night . . . your Oilers beat Vancouver, a team which is miles ahead of Edmonton in terms of talent, experience, goaltending, defence - everything. And yet, the lowly Oil defeated a full squad of Canucks. Obviously, even with the huge disparity in talent . . . taking it a little bit easier having the conference lead sewn up does make it possible for bad teams to win.

So I reject your comment that it's only the Leafs who have to play on "all cylinders" to win. I submit that EVERY team pretty much has to do that to win. And for the nights when you aren't firing on all cylinders . . . a hot goalie helps.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 04/06/2011 05:35:23
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  05:52:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, perhaps I can be more clear and I will use your example of the Oilers vs Vancouver.

The Oilers never should have beaten the Canucks once let alone twice. However, did Edmonton win or did the Canucks lose??? Edmonton played smart, solid hockey and gave themselves a chance to win. Vancouver did not play a smart, solid game of hockey but because they have one of the best goalies in the NHL, the past 2 Art Ross winners, and one of the top 2-3 two-way forwards in the NHL they had a chance. In both games, Vancouver was in it until later in the 3rd period. It was because they have top teir talent that can carry the team when needed.

Sure, any team can beat any other team any given night. But for a team to win on a regular basis they need talent. There is not a top team in the NHL today that wins on a regular basis that do not have top level talent in at least some level of the team. Even teams like Phoenix(Bryzgalov, Yandle) and Nashville(Rinne, Weber, Suter) have top tier talent.

There are teams out there (the top 5-8 teams in the NHL) that do not need ALL of their players firing on all cylinders to win. Teams like the Leafs are in the middle of the league that might win a game or two when they shouldn't but they lose most often when their team is off their game.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  06:14:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Slozo, perhaps I can be more clear and I will use your example of the Oilers vs Vancouver.

The Oilers never should have beaten the Canucks once let alone twice. However, did Edmonton win or did the Canucks lose??? Edmonton played smart, solid hockey and gave themselves a chance to win. Vancouver did not play a smart, solid game of hockey but because they have one of the best goalies in the NHL, the past 2 Art Ross winners, and one of the top 2-3 two-way forwards in the NHL they had a chance. In both games, Vancouver was in it until later in the 3rd period. It was because they have top teir talent that can carry the team when needed.

Sure, any team can beat any other team any given night. But for a team to win on a regular basis they need talent. There is not a top team in the NHL today that wins on a regular basis that do not have top level talent in at least some level of the team. Even teams like Phoenix(Bryzgalov, Yandle) and Nashville(Rinne, Weber, Suter) have top tier talent.

There are teams out there (the top 5-8 teams in the NHL) that do not need ALL of their players firing on all cylinders to win. Teams like the Leafs are in the middle of the league that might win a game or two when they shouldn't but they lose most often when their team is off their game.



You contradict yourself then. Using your logic then in your last line, the Canucks still should have won against the Oil last night.

I don't think we disagree than any more talented team has a much BETTER chance at winning when they are not "on" their game . . . but the fact is, looking at the scoresheets, the playing field is much more even these days, and not even good teams can afford to coast very much.

I point to Pittsburgh as an example. Without Crosby and Malkin, I don't think they are that much better than the Leafs in terms of talent. But they know how to play intense hockey night in and night out . . . probably one of the highest compete levels of any team in the league. And that is why they have miraculously hung on to a decent playoff spot without the games best player, and one of its top stars.

For a team to win on a regular basis, they still need to have a very high compete level - even with top talent.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest7752
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Posted - 04/06/2011 :  09:02:21  Reply with Quote
Not sure that the season ended any better than expected.
At the start, Burke's goal was to make the playoffs.
Didn't happen.
What did happen - is that it wasn't the players that everyone expected (Pheneuf, Kessel, The Monster, Komi, Beauch, Giggy, etc...) that brought them even this far...
The unpexpected ones provided the surprises.
Kulemin, Grabovski, Macarthur, Riemer, etc. made the difference from where they'll finish this season and the bottom of the pack by having carreer seasons.
So, had these guys not had carreer seasons, there would have had a major uproar in TO on the huge failure.
Grabovski is typically 30 to 40 point player - 60 or so this year?
Kulemin same thing...?
Macarthur is typically 20 to 30 point player - 60 or so this year??
Next season... will ALL these guys have an other carreer season?
Kessel ? He's at the point level he usually is...
Phaneuf? Nowhere near his capability
SO... with a number of players unexpectedly ALL with carreer season... and with Kessel's, Phaneuf's, etc... playing at their level... they'll STILL finfished out of the playoffs.
Does not look good for next season, too many stars have to be perfectly aligned just to make the playoffs if the team does not change.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  10:44:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752

Not sure that the season ended any better than expected.
At the start, Burke's goal was to make the playoffs.
Didn't happen.
What did happen - is that it wasn't the players that everyone expected (Pheneuf, Kessel, The Monster, Komi, Beauch, Giggy, etc...) that brought them even this far...
The unpexpected ones provided the surprises.
Kulemin, Grabovski, Macarthur, Riemer, etc. made the difference from where they'll finish this season and the bottom of the pack by having carreer seasons.
So, had these guys not had carreer seasons, there would have had a major uproar in TO on the huge failure.
Grabovski is typically 30 to 40 point player - 60 or so this year?
Kulemin same thing...?
Macarthur is typically 20 to 30 point player - 60 or so this year??
Next season... will ALL these guys have an other carreer season?
Kessel ? He's at the point level he usually is...
Phaneuf? Nowhere near his capability
SO... with a number of players unexpectedly ALL with carreer season... and with Kessel's, Phaneuf's, etc... playing at their level... they'll STILL finfished out of the playoffs.
Does not look good for next season, too many stars have to be perfectly aligned just to make the playoffs if the team does not change.



I partially agree - there were a lot of unexpected player successes in Grabovski, MacArthur, Schenn, and most notably Reimer. Kulemin and 2nd half Kessel could be added in there too.

But just as many players disappointed this season - Gustavsson, 1st half Komisarek, 1st half Phaneuf, Lebda, Kadri (until his second call up now), and even Giggy could be included, although he wasn't a huge one. And as much as Reimer has played fantastic for a bit less than half the season . . . the first half of the season we had crappy to mediocre goaltending.

So, one cannot just dwell on the surprises and say they won't all repeat - you are correct, they probably won't - without mentioning that the disappointments also are not all likely to repeat.

To me, and I don't think I am being too optimistic here - only one star needs to be aligned, Reimer. If he plays even a step below what he has been doing, that is - be a good starting goalie - and if he plays 50 odd games . . . and the rest of the team plays close to what they should . . . I think it's a playoff team. Especially if they get an offensive upgrade in the summer.

But that's just me, and of course, any positive comment I have to make about the Leafs will be seen as being a "homer", and any negative comment as "realistic".

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest9201
( )

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  11:30:53  Reply with Quote
I am not a Leaf fan and I am not a Leaf hater. If you want everyone outside of Leaf nation to take Toronto serious than we are going to have to see some consistency. Until they get back to the Gilmour, Potvin, Sundin years of making the playoffs, unfortunatelly this negativity as you call it will contiue.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  11:40:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, we are arguing the same point in the end. Vancouver shouldn't win every game, but they should win most games based on their talent. More importantly, Vancouver will win a some games they will not based on their superior talent level.

This is the point I was trying to make. Without a great team you will not win many games (FLA,EDM,OTT) and without enough top tier talent (TOR, CGY, CAR) you will struggle just to make the playoffs.

As I said, TO is still missing some top level talent to make that leap.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  12:14:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, to clarify things, i'm an admitted Leaf Hater, if there's such a thing?

However, i do see some positives going forward for this team. I mean, it's been 7 years since they've been in the playoffs, they've got the financial means to compete, they've got a few young players who should continue to develop AND they've got some others who need to regain their past form.

Slozo, like you, i had Kulemin in more than one pool i was in and was rewarded accordingly. Someone mentioned that he, Grabo, McArthur, etc had career years and can they do it again? Well, how are we to know they were career years and not simply guys starting to live up to theri potential. Is Kulemin not just 24 and in his 2nd or 3rd season in the NHL? McArthur has likely never had a shot playing 1st or 2nd line minutes. Grabo, maybe he just clicked with linemates finally? Who knows, but if they can play come close to this production going forward, the Leafs will be happy.

I don't see all the Leafs games, but from those i did see and everything i've read, guys like Phaneuf and Kessel did well down the stretch. If Dion can live up to even 3/4 of his potential, their in good shape.

Mix in another year of growth, maturity and experience for Kadri and Schenn, who had a really good year, and the future doesn't look so dim!

My big issue is goaltending. While that may sound strange after what "Optinus Reim" did once given the net, i just worry about a letdown. Someone already mentioned that goalies like Reimer can sometimes be "flash in the pans" and this is possible. What i wanna know is, what is Burke going to do with his goaltending situation. Does he run with Reimer going into next year or does get go out and aquire a veteren to share the net with him and act as an insurance policy in case this kid comes back next year and doesn't repeat his success? Personally, i think he grabs a vet!

Lastly, and this is important, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that BB will finally get that #1 center for Phil Kessel (let the Kessel from boston trade talks fire up even more!). I think he's going to be a HUGE player for Brad Richards. Just a hunch, but if not Richards, then someone else to play first line center. Burke's going into his 4th season (i think) in the "center of the universe" so he's going to start feeling some heat if he doesn't produce a team that has a shot at some serious success!
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  12:17:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In Slozo's Words I to am a Homer, but also a big time hater, simply because I endure the parade talk & Kessel if he had a centre talk on a regular basis

To me it was a typical (recent yrs) Jeckyl & Hyde type season for the leafs. In the end though, they come out with much more positives then negatives, so undoubtedly progress has been made even though it may not particularly show in the standings.

Some make the points that Kulemin, Grabovski & McCarthur all had career years and are unlikely to maintain such level of play. The one thing those of you with this mindset are forgetting is that the three gentleman in question play together. Their point totals show that the three of them compliment each other well and clearly have a confidence and comfort zone while playing together which normally increases over the yrs (TBD).

Reimer, early on even while winning I felt went down to early and crouched down when he did; allowing teams to beat him upstairs. The last couple of weeks he has adjusted that and appears to be outweighting the shooter, using his size to allow pucks to hit his shoulders and deflect out of play. Still not sold on this kid, but for the time being is a vast improvement from earlier in the yr & I really like Scribbons as a back up going fwd.

As for the D core going fwd the youth movement looks great. Aulie beyond the occasional rookie mistake was their best dmen during the last month while playing both sides of the ice & his size is a key factor going fwd. The real steal of the Leafs Flames trade. Schenn is advancing along the way he should and the rest of the D going fwd are WTF's as you just don't know which version will show up from game to game.

The Fwds is where it is a little messy. Lupul if healthy will be a good provider along with the second line players. The problem with this fwd group presently is to many pylons. People on here make reference to my pens having pylons, but the talbots, kennedy's Dupuis etc have tremendous foot speed & defensively repsonsible. The leafs pylons (3rd & 4th line) are slow, defensively incompetent & consists of to many guys more concerned with fighting then throwing their weight around and forcing guys off the puck. Kadri is stil a TBD, although I like his advancements in the defensive end; having watched him with the marlies several times this yr he needs to develop the mentality to shoot more which will undoubtedly open up the passing lanes and allow him to use his talent to give him more space on the ice. Then their is the "Air Apparent / The Saviour" Phil Kessel who I absolutely despise as he is a pathetic version of Ovechkin. Only knows how to play one end of the rink & as long as he is your only go to guy futilitity is the leafs mantra going fwd. I know it's hindsight, but even if this yr's draft pick doesn't pan out Seguin would be a stellar two way player going fwd. If kessel starts to play defense a little more the way Malkin has slowly adjusted then I will gladly cut him some slack. As long as he is a 30 goal 60pt - 7000 player who doesn't know what number Reimer wears, then I will continue to harp on his true desire to win. Dislike my comments if you like, but real player's make adjustment's to their games to ensure team success (Yzerman, Sakic, Hossa etc) while one way players continue their ways and maintain playoff futility (Bure, Ovechkin, Heatley).

If you wish to make positive arguements in Kessle's favour, just remember Ken Hitchcock turned a certain young one way superstar into a legitimate two way beast. So it can be done, the desire for it to happen just has to be there.

The leafs will be a playoff contender going fwd, but are still far off from legit cup contenders. That said Rome wasn't built in a day so only time will tell what this teams potential really is.

In youth we learn; in age we understand

Edited by - Mario 66 on 04/06/2011 12:25:25
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  12:29:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
WHOA WHOA WHOA there Mario66!!!

BURE? Please tell me you're referring to Valeri and not Pavel??? All Pavel did in his career was:

64 games played
35 goals
35 assists
70 points
+8

Without Bure, the 7th place (conference) Canucks wouldn't have had a sniff at the cup in '94!

How in the world you can call him a one way player is beyond me! I'm shaking my head....
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  13:12:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex, its no disrespect to Bure's offensive talents, but lets be honest he was no two way player. If you look only at Ovechkin's plus minus he looks like a defensive wizard, but we both know otherwise.

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  13:20:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sure, he wasn't gonna win you a Selke, but he was far from the defensive liability that some guys are. Your opinion on Kessel, from what i read, would fit into a defensive liability category and i just don't see Bure in that same sort of group, that's all.
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  13:21:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can respect & agree with that.

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  16:17:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Slozo guest 4278 is a big - time leaf hater. I stated somewhere else that Chi. would beat Bos. in 6 games to take the cup and he freaked all over me...i think he is a touchy, feely Boston Bruins fan

Guys Bure played a good few years. Your comparing a kid ( kessel ) with no center iceman and no wing help until the draft, even then with a player who missed 1 day short of a calender year due to back surgery and infections......not saying kessel is Guy Carb. but give him a chance with bonafied line-mates.

I thought Toronto would make the playoffs at the beginning of the season but their veteran players were HORRIBLE. Goaltending was medicore at best earlier on...the monsters holes and Giggys groins, and over-all poor team play soon moved in.

After watching the leafs play several top teams lately, its clear to see thay are not close to being a bonafied team. With some tinkering next season, a couple of new UFA`s and strong goal-tending from Reimer ( hopefully )...they should compete for between 5th and 8th in the east next season. With a little luck, maybe even 4th.

The leafs have accumulated the 4th most points in the entire NHL since the all - star break......not an easy feat without them being the 4th best team.....this sez a lot about their work ethic and determination, if they can carry this over into next season, the playoffs shall finally be their destination.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  16:19:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sorry i wrote DRAFT......should have been trade - deadline, in the kessel / Bure paragraph.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  16:28:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

The leafs have accumulated the 4th most points in the entire NHL since the all - star break......not an easy feat without them being the 4th best team.....this sez a lot about their work ethic and determination, if they can carry this over into next season, the playoffs shall finally be their destination.



WOW, if that's accurate Duke, that's pretty impressive! Taking a wild guess, i'd have to say Vancouver and SJ are two of the teams with more since then? The last, i'd guess NJ?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  16:59:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ya, I would like to see some stats to back that 4th most comment as well. I know Calgary was on absolute fire for a period of time, Detroit has not slipped, Washington picked up ground, as did Anaheim.

I found this cool tool that will tell you the standings as of specific dates during the season. Holy Crap. The Leafs's weren't 4th, they were tied for 2nd. Here is the list by pt production since Juan 29th. (The website is http://www.shrpsports.com/nhl/)

Does anyone else remember when people were talking about Atlanta as a playoff team. Wow, did they tank.


Team Pts
San Jose 47
New Jersey 42
Toronto 42
Vancouver 42
Washington 42
Buffalo 41
Los Angeles 41
Calgary 37
Chicago 37
Nashville 37
Phoenix 37
Boston 36
Detroit 36
Pittsburgh 36
NY Islanders 35
Montreal 34
Anaheim 33
St Louis 33
Philadelphia 32
Tampa Bay 32
Carolina 31
Columbus 30
NY Rangers 30
Ottawa 30
Minnesota 27
Dallas 26
Edmonton 23
Atlanta 21
Florida 21
Colorado 10

Edited by - Beans15 on 04/06/2011 17:20:00
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
905 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  17:30:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ugh, you beat me to it Beans! I found a link with the standings at the AS break & spent the past 10 minutes figuring up how many points each team has earned since...
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  17:37:50  Reply with Quote
so the leafs dont start playing inspired hockey until on the verge of being eliminated from playoff contention, all i have to say is....... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY GOOOODBYE!


have a nice spring/summer leaf fans hope that resigning schenn mccarthur bozak reimer and the rest of the boys goes well for ya
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Guest8149
( )

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  22:03:35  Reply with Quote
For Toronto to be one of the top teams since the all-star break is not insignificant. Not time to plan the Stanley Cup parade, but this bodes well for next season.

I wonder how things will translate for teams like Philadelphia and Tampa Bay who have faltered the last part of the season? Will they rebound in the playoffs?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2011 :  22:09:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heard the Flyers record over the last 19 games or so on the radio today and it certainly wasn't pretty! Only 6 outright wins (2 full points) in the past 19 (or something along those lines).

That's not too good going into the playoffs. Is Pronger really that important to that team???
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  05:41:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

so the leafs dont start playing inspired hockey until on the verge of being eliminated from playoff contention, all i have to say is....... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY GOOOODBYE!


have a nice spring/summer leaf fans hope that resigning schenn mccarthur bozak reimer and the rest of the boys goes well for ya




I shouldn't bite on trolls like this, but I really do want clarification:

Explain to me how the Leafs, or any team for that matter, could be on the "verge of elimination" in late January or early February? Just curious.

But thanks for the well wishes.

2nd most points since end of Jannuary is very, very impressive . . . just sucks that Buffalo was right behind us by a point.

Great comments from Mario, btw. Alex, I agree that the key for Burke this summer going into next season is two, clear cut things:
1) setting up the best situation he can for Reimer to succeed and continue his stellar play
2) get a top line center

From the stories I have heard, even though he's quite expensive, Giggy has been a hugely positive influence on Reimer, as well as Allaire, the goalie coach. I would think that Reimer might feel very good with Giggy still backing him next year, with a sort of reversal of what the Giggy/Gustavsson breakdown of games was supposed to be - Reimer 2/3 games, Giggy 1/3, all depending on the ebb and flow of the season/injuries, of course.

My prediction has already been made about a center, and my feeling is that Burke will make several strong plays to get one using some of the late first round picks he has, or in some other off season trade. Potential targets would be Pavelski or even Thornton (hopefully San Jose implodes in the playoffs), Spezza, Ribeiro . . . and obviously we'd have to one or more decent players/prospects going back.

Here's hopin'.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  06:59:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Never thought of Spezza....interesting! Has he ever been playing well lately huh? Sure, you're get the haters claiming he's only good when the games don't matter, but i don't buy it.

Pavelski is great, but unless he's simply hidden behind Thornton and maybe has the potential to be even better, i'd be aiming higher. I still think they make a play for Richards. At 30, he's got some good years left in him.
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Guest2224
( )

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:02:00  Reply with Quote
slozo you really want people to change their point of view. But anyway, man I can't believe you're talking so much of Reimer... wtf Reimer? I mean you don't even realise that what you are saying is the SAME thing then last year... but still you're not in the playoff... Remember last year how Toskala ruined your season early on and when Gustavson and Giggy went on, the leafs started to win more often!!! And how the end of the season had been great with Gustavson and everyone playing their best hockey... Now this year it's gustavson and Giggy's fault and Reimer almost save the deal and is such a magical goaltenders that the leafs are ALREADY in next year's playoff... men so sorry for you...

I'm sorry to end you dream here, but how can you be happy with the team you have? Reimer is an unproven goaltender who has played 36 games in the NHL... wow 'Canes have Ward and aren't in the playoff (could but still) and their is no way Reimer can be compared to Ward, Price, Brodeur, Miller, Fleury, Lundqvist and even Vokun (in the EAST ONLY)

Also, Kessel men what a selfish player 63 pts and -21!!!! Wow, you're happy with player such as Kulemin, Schenn and so on... ohh my god.

Grabovski will never be part of a cup winning team believe me! no defensive aptitude and the only way he can do his 50pts his on first or second line.

But the worse is KOMISAREK! 4,5 M$ wowwwww!!! what a failure this guy is.

Leafs has 24 M$ spent on the cap hit for the next 2 years on only 5 players : Phaneuf (6,5 M$) ok Kessel (5,4 $M) if you want... Komisarek (4,5 M$) no wayyy Lupul (4,25 M$) not in a million years Armstrong (3 M$) let's say... for the next 2 years wow!!! all that with 2 very late pick this year and no first and second pick last year to come in the next 3-4 years...

Poor leafs...
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:22:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2224

slozo you really want people to change their point of view. But anyway, man I can't believe you're talking so much of Reimer... wtf Reimer? I mean you don't even realise that what you are saying is the SAME thing then last year... but still you're not in the playoff... Remember last year how Toskala ruined your season early on and when Gustavson and Giggy went on, the leafs started to win more often!!! And how the end of the season had been great with Gustavson and everyone playing their best hockey... Now this year it's gustavson and Giggy's fault and Reimer almost save the deal and is such a magical goaltenders that the leafs are ALREADY in next year's playoff... men so sorry for you...

I'm sorry to end you dream here, but how can you be happy with the team you have? Reimer is an unproven goaltender who has played 36 games in the NHL... wow 'Canes have Ward and aren't in the playoff (could but still) and their is no way Reimer can be compared to Ward, Price, Brodeur, Miller, Fleury, Lundqvist and even Vokun (in the EAST ONLY)

Also, Kessel men what a selfish player 63 pts and -21!!!! Wow, you're happy with player such as Kulemin, Schenn and so on... ohh my god.

Grabovski will never be part of a cup winning team believe me! no defensive aptitude and the only way he can do his 50pts his on first or second line.

But the worse is KOMISAREK! 4,5 M$ wowwwww!!! what a failure this guy is.

Leafs has 24 M$ spent on the cap hit for the next 2 years on only 5 players : Phaneuf (6,5 M$) ok Kessel (5,4 $M) if you want... Komisarek (4,5 M$) no wayyy Lupul (4,25 M$) not in a million years Armstrong (3 M$) let's say... for the next 2 years wow!!! all that with 2 very late pick this year and no first and second pick last year to come in the next 3-4 years...

Poor leafs...



Speak the truth Yoda does.


Unfortunately, as exciting as the late season run was, that the Leafs put together, I think they are right about where they were at this time last year, 'great start to a new beginning, or is it just "same 'ol, same 'ol" and we'll be fighting life and death to make the playoffs next year'

They have relied heavily on an as yet unproven, albeit, spectacular young goalie, a squad of players who may have had career years, who knows, and a squad of underachieving core players.

There are still a lot of 'ifs' to be answered before a reasonable, Leaf fan can get too excited.

It looks good now, but 'same ol'. same ol', it'll be first quarter of next year before Slozo's question can be answered
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:31:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, I live in TO & not a fan of the leafs, but guest 2224 straight loaths everything about that team...

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:41:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Elvis the leafs aren`t really at the same point as they were last season, remember they finished 29th...they`ve moved up 8 - 9 positions. This team is very, very young ( 2nd youngest in the league ) with Giggy( 33 - 34 ) most likely going, probably Crabb ( 28 - 29 ) going also, making them even younger.

This leafs team is diffrent, they have plenty of speed, youth and a desire to win. Reimer looks for real and is a huge goalie who can move well. With some defensive tinkering, the addition of a center and another top 6 forward, this team should make the playoffs.

A lot of the leafs younger players are finally showing improvement and promise....nowhere to go but up.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  17:08:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Elvis the leafs aren`t really at the same point as they were last season, remember they finished 29th...they`ve moved up 8 - 9 positions. This team is very, very young ( 2nd youngest in the league ) with Giggy( 33 - 34 ) most likely going, probably Crabb ( 28 - 29 ) going also, making them even younger.

This leafs team is diffrent, they have plenty of speed, youth and a desire to win. Reimer looks for real and is a huge goalie who can move well. With some defensive tinkering, the addition of a center and another top 6 forward, this team should make the playoffs.

A lot of the leafs younger players are finally showing improvement and promise....nowhere to go but up.



I remember thinking the same about the Oilers in the mid-90's. Except they were a better team. Not much better.

I remember thinking the same about the Oilers in the early 2000's. Except they were a better team. A lot better. With more upside.

Two unlikely first-round upsets and an unbelievable cup-run later, I am thinking the same thing. So are you about the Leafs.

Two differences.

The Leafs are not a good team and have little upside.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  17:16:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Elvis the leafs aren`t really at the same point as they were last season, remember they finished 29th...they`ve moved up 8 - 9 positions. This team is very, very young ( 2nd youngest in the league ) with Giggy( 33 - 34 ) most likely going, probably Crabb ( 28 - 29 ) going also, making them even younger.

This leafs team is diffrent, they have plenty of speed, youth and a desire to win. Reimer looks for real and is a huge goalie who can move well. With some defensive tinkering, the addition of a center and another top 6 forward, this team should make the playoffs.

A lot of the leafs younger players are finally showing improvement and promise....nowhere to go but up.



I appreciate the enthusiasm Duke, and I hope for yours and Slozo's sake that they do continue to improve, as I do for all the Canadian teams, I just think that this is a song I have heard before and always end up hearing being hummed at this time of the year, again.

I will wait until next year to see if the Reimers, Macarthurs, Kulemins, et al. can continue as they did, along with the resurgence of the core players, then I'll give them all the kudos they deserve.

As an Oilers fan, that's what I've learned, cautious, and quiet, optimism. I had couple years where it was tough to get the peanut butter and banana sandwiches in my mouth, as my feet were already taking up space.
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  17:35:05  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

so the leafs dont start playing inspired hockey until on the verge of being eliminated from playoff contention, all i have to say is....... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY GOOOODBYE!


have a nice spring/summer leaf fans hope that resigning schenn mccarthur bozak reimer and the rest of the boys goes well for ya




I shouldn't bite on trolls like this, but I really do want clarification:

Explain to me how the Leafs, or any team for that matter, could be on the "verge of elimination" in late January or early February? Just curious.

But thanks for the well wishes.

2nd most points since end of Jannuary is very, very impressive . . . just sucks that Buffalo was right behind us by a point.

Great comments from Mario, btw. Alex, I agree that the key for Burke this summer going into next season is two, clear cut things:
1) setting up the best situation he can for Reimer to succeed and continue his stellar play
2) get a top line center

From the stories I have heard, even though he's quite expensive, Giggy has been a hugely positive influence on Reimer, as well as Allaire, the goalie coach. I would think that Reimer might feel very good with Giggy still backing him next year, with a sort of reversal of what the Giggy/Gustavsson breakdown of games was supposed to be - Reimer 2/3 games, Giggy 1/3, all depending on the ebb and flow of the season/injuries, of course.

My prediction has already been made about a center, and my feeling is that Burke will make several strong plays to get one using some of the late first round picks he has, or in some other off season trade. Potential targets would be Pavelski or even Thornton (hopefully San Jose implodes in the playoffs), Spezza, Ribeiro . . . and obviously we'd have to one or more decent players/prospects going back.

Here's hopin'.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



HAhahah ya i guess i was trolling on that one had to get one in before the playoffs start, But in all seriousness if Toronto hadnt picked up their game after the All Star break and played inspired hockey they could of been out of the playoff race by the trade deadline. In a way its great that they did show they can compete it keeps you fans intrested and optomistic for the following season (plus this year boston owns their pick so the higher they finish the better) but would you rather finish 9th 10th in the confrence year after year and get mid round picks and try to upgrade in Free Agency or would you rather get a top 5 pick and build for the future? It just seems to me that the team doesnt start produceing until its almost to late to catch up to the rest of the teams fighting for a spot in the postseason.
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Guest4278
( )

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  18:56:07  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Yes Slozo guest 4278 is a big - time leaf hater. I stated somewhere else that Chi. would beat Bos. in 6 games to take the cup and he freaked all over me...i think he is a touchy, feely Boston Bruins fan


Not a bruins fan. Try again.

Where did I say I hated the leafs? What I hate are loud, obnoxious, unrealistic fans. Especially leaf fans since they tend to be the loudest, most obnoxious and most unrealistic. Remember the parade talk when they were 4-0 at the start of the season? That's the garbage I despise.

If only you can keep in touch with reality like FER and tone down the home team rhetoric. If you read my post again, I did say some nice things about the leafs. Certain type of leafs fan however, I was not so nice about. I hope you can figure out the difference.
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Lunchbox
Top Prospect



Canada
88 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  20:01:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with FER...there are reasons to be optimistic about the Leafs going into next year....just not too optimistic (and certainly not loudly optimistic). A lot of guys had what are being called "career years", but for the Leafs to be successful, the potential still has to be realized in a lot of players, and the key is that some players will realize that potential, while others will not.

So, I would say that Leafs fans should wait until at least late summer before getting hopes up, passing judgement etc on next years team. Knowing how much Burke likes to wheel and deal at the draft, it could be 5-10 new players in the lineup next year.

Also, I do hope for the sake of Leaf fans that they don't do this year after year. I live on the west coast and watched for a long time as the Canucks struggled until January, only to turn it on in the second half, fill the fans with hope, only to end up in 9th with a lower draft slot, and the same plan for the next year: hope and prayers.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2011 :  05:20:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4278

quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Yes Slozo guest 4278 is a big - time leaf hater. I stated somewhere else that Chi. would beat Bos. in 6 games to take the cup and he freaked all over me...i think he is a touchy, feely Boston Bruins fan


Not a bruins fan. Try again.

Where did I say I hated the leafs? What I hate are loud, obnoxious, unrealistic fans. Especially leaf fans since they tend to be the loudest, most obnoxious and most unrealistic. Remember the parade talk when they were 4-0 at the start of the season? That's the garbage I despise.




No, I don't remember that parade talk at all. In fact, only non-Leaf fans talked about Leaf parade routes, but not one Leaf fan.

Try again.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2240 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2011 :  05:35:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Guest4278

quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Yes Slozo guest 4278 is a big - time leaf hater. I stated somewhere else that Chi. would beat Bos. in 6 games to take the cup and he freaked all over me...i think he is a touchy, feely Boston Bruins fan


Not a bruins fan. Try again.

Where did I say I hated the leafs? What I hate are loud, obnoxious, unrealistic fans. Especially leaf fans since they tend to be the loudest, most obnoxious and most unrealistic. Remember the parade talk when they were 4-0 at the start of the season? That's the garbage I despise.




No, I don't remember that parade talk at all. In fact, only non-Leaf fans talked about Leaf parade routes, but not one Leaf fan.

Try again.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Slozo is my bitter rival being a leafs fan and me being a hab fan,, but i have to support Slozo on this comment ,, Albeit Leaf fans in general blow a lot of things out of proportion on this site i do find it to be the leaf haters that blow Rational Comments from Slozo RC and other leaf fans out of proportion, sure their is opptimisn in some post but they are fans,, their always optmism in my post about the habs its part of being a fan,,, the most Radical leaf fan imo on this site is Duke and he is far from annoying with his post and actually i respect his dedication to his team. Besides the occaisional guest i find none of this leaf haters outrage at the leafs "plan the parade " comments founded,, as i said on this site our Leafers a fairly level headed

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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