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Guest8149
( )

Posted - 04/16/2011 :  20:26:10  Reply with Quote
Oftentimes fans say "we" when referring to their favourite or hometown team, like they coach, manage or play for the team.

Interestingly, Anze Kopitar was interviewed during the Kings-Sharks game, and he said "they" about his own team. Not a big deal, but if an actual member of the team considers himself as "they" and not "we," how can a fan communicate their association otherwise!

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  09:10:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll leave this one to Beans
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  09:14:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is a big slip of the tongue for Kopitar, IMHO. If I was the coach, I'd go through other player channels so that someone could let him know there is no "I" in team, and to couch everything in "we" terms. The media lives to pick apart crap like this, and while that may not be important in the grand scheme of things, if it's written about, and some teammate misunderstands the context . . . well, even little words have an effect sometimes.

It might be just a bit of an "english is my second or third language" thing, but still, he's a big star of the team, and he has to know what to say and how to say it.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  10:42:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is not uncommon guys, what is the big deal. You often hear a player in the press box being interviewed and when asked a question about the game going on, it is perfectly acceptable to make a comment like, 'The boys are playing hard tonight. They are digging in the corners and winning pucks and that is helping them to win the game." A player who is not on the ice participating should't have to say we.

However, if it is a question refering to the team in general and not specific towards the play on the ice, I can see where a player could be judged.


But if you are not on the team and are fan and say 'we' you are a meatball. Sorry, you are. Not personally, generally. You are not part of the team in any way, shape, or form.


Edited by - Beans15 on 04/17/2011 19:14:41
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Guest4114
( )

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  18:22:52  Reply with Quote
although the fans do pay to go to the games, and if there were no fans, there would be no money and if there was no money there would be no teams, and if there were no teams there would be no league... therefore the fans are a part of the team. in fact they are the very foundation of the team. If fans stopped going to the games, I don't think the league would last too long...so to say the fans are not part of the team in any way, shape or form is quite untrue...they actually have the biggest role in the organization imo.
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  18:45:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest I totally agree with you & was going to bring it up earlier today just been way to busy studying & do not have time to be rebuttling this week.

If I make a generalized statement "they" are the very best nobody on here has a F***** clue what I am refering to. The second I say We you automatically know or atleast presume I am referencing the Pens.

If WE don't take pride in our team of choice by turning on the TV or showing up to the arena; THEY don't have a livelyhood.

Everyone can view it differently, but if your signifcant other & you lease a vehicle are you going to tell everyone we own it for the next 4 yrs or they (the dealership) own it? No different with your team, you pay to cheer them on whether it's through jersey sales, seat sales, or tv revenue. The second you start paying to watch, play or own something you have taken ownership in it and therefore are entitled to call it what you like.

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  19:13:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mario 66

Guest I totally agree with you & was going to bring it up earlier today just been way to busy studying & do not have time to be rebuttling this week.

If I make a generalized statement "they" are the very best nobody on here has a F***** clue what I am refering to. The second I say We you automatically know or atleast presume I am referencing the Pens.

If WE don't take pride in our team of choice by turning on the TV or showing up to the arena; THEY don't have a livelyhood.

Everyone can view it differently, but if your signifcant other & you lease a vehicle are you going to tell everyone we own it for the next 4 yrs or they (the dealership) own it? No different with your team, you pay to cheer them on whether it's through jersey sales, seat sales, or tv revenue. The second you start paying to watch, play or own something you have taken ownership in it and therefore are entitled to call it what you like.

In youth we learn; in age we understand




Thanks for this. Proves my point. YOU are a fan and PLAYERS make up a hockey team. We and They, not US. The things is fans are a group, not singular. If you are referring to the group of fans for a team, say we all your want because that is what you are a part of. YOU are not part of the team. Regardless of what you might thing about the fans and how important they are. I am not arguing that point. No fans, no hockey. I get it. But that isn't dependent on YOU, it is dependent on all of the fans. "US" Ask Winnipeg and Quebec how import fans are. As Phoenix and ATL how important fans are(even a small group).

There is significantly more corporate money involved in hockey than fan money. Yet, if there was ever a corporate label put on a team (Like the Rexall Edmonton Oilers or the OTPF Toronto Maple Leafs) people would lose their freakin mind!!


YOU are not part of any hockey team. YOU are a part of a group of fans.
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Guest9634
( )

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  21:24:22  Reply with Quote
I find that I (as well as many fans) have a tendency to refer to my team as "we" when they win, and "them" when they lose. Ie. "Yeah! We won tonight!" or "ugh - they choked!"

As such, I try to say "we" whenever possible - even when we lose. I am part of my team - it's thanks to the support of people like me that the players/coaches are able to make careers out of hockey.

By saying "we lost, we choked, we suck", I make myself that much MORE of a fan when "we win".
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Guest9634
( )

Posted - 04/17/2011 :  21:52:48  Reply with Quote
And if I may reply to Beans...

You could just as easily say that a hockey team is formed by a GROUP of players, rather than individual players. A hockey team isn't defined by a single player, but rather a GROUP of players. It wouldn't change if one player left it - but obviously, that player is still a part of the team. Likewise, I am a fan, but I'm not tied to the group of fans. I can leave whenever I want. Fans are a LARGER group, perhaps, but they're still individuals just like players.

And do you know why the NHL gets so much corporate sponsorship? Because the corporate sponsors know that fans (like me) are watching! If fans stopped watching, the sponsors would stop supporting.

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2011 :  10:41:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep, all great points but it doesn't change the fact that you (or any other fan) is not part of the organization. You are not a player, coach, trainer, adminstrator, medical staff, marketing, promotions, management, etc. You are a fan.

It is them, not you, who is part of the team or part of a group that makes up the team.
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Guest4778
( )

Posted - 04/18/2011 :  15:16:56  Reply with Quote
Alright i feel i had to speak up.

Beans wtf can you hop off about people saying they belong to a team learn to deal with it, your an old man grow up. WHO CARES
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2011 :  15:24:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I sometimes say "we" I sometimes say "They" honestly does it really matter? Support your team in whatever way you choose to do so. As long as you cheer on your team through good times and bad. Bandwagon jumpers are not included.

CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 04/18/2011 :  15:45:21  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Yep, all great points but it doesn't change the fact that you (or any other fan) is not part of the organization. You are not a player, coach, trainer, adminstrator, medical staff, marketing, promotions, management, etc. You are a fan.

It is them, not you, who is part of the team or part of a group that makes up the team.



Im a Season ticket holder, in the newsletters it refers to us as being valued members of the organization?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2011 :  19:30:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, I am far from an old man but I am grown up. Grown up enough to know that I am a fan of the Edmonton Oilers and I cheer for them. I don't cheer for the fans, which is the group I am a part of. I don't cheer for me as a part of the fans. I am not part of the organization. I am fan of tons of different things, not just sports teams. I am a fan of summer time sun shine but when the sun is out I don't say we (me and the sun) are going to chill. I am a fan of golfing, but I don't say we (me and my golf course) are going to hang out for the day.

As a season ticket holder, you are privy to more things than Joe Fan without season tickets, but if you think for a second that you are more important than any other butt that is in any seat in the stadium, well I think you are wrong.

Simply, it's a pet peeve of mine. It's like people who wear socks and sandals (especially the blue socks with brown leather sandals) or people who say 'Brin it on" rather than 'bring it on" (listen next time, lots of people do it without realizing it). I don't need to justify it and You don't need to agree with me. If I offended anyone with my comments, I apologize. Hopefully people recognized when I was say 'you' I was speaking generally and not to anyone specifically. I respect people saying 'we' but I don't like it. Feel free to respect my view but not like as well.

Edited by - Beans15 on 04/19/2011 18:46:15
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  05:07:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I know one thing:

We are right, Beans is wrong.

I can't use the word "they" for Beans, however . . . after all, it is plural!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  13:08:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's the Leaf logo that makes him wrong isn't it

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
808 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  17:23:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speaking on behalf of the Edmonton Oilers' organization, fans included, the vast majority of us can spell the word 'sandals' correctly. We sincerely hope that all others will pick up their socks in regards to spelling, because it is a pet peeve of ours.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  18:00:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kinda over - kill on a childish subject isn`t it.

The guy can`t properly speak English, not alone put a correct sentence together. FFS most Canadians i know can`t put a correct English sentence together.

If a fan wants to say OUR team...let him / her...the fan is paying the $$$$$ to keep the whole damn thing together.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
808 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  18:27:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That was my point, really. Childish; or petty and peevish. Anyone can be this way, depending in his or her quirks. Regarding YOUR command of the English language, Duke.....never mind. I will save my snipes for the big dogs.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  18:49:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Firstly, I blame growing up with spell check technology for my poor spelling in grammar. Not a good excuse but I'm sticking to it.

Is my opinion petty and childish?? Absolutely and I openly admit to that.

And Duke, if you are talking about me when you comment 'The guy can't properly speak English," I would challenge you to help me understand how you know this. Did we ever speak before???

Finally, to this post and this topic, I do think the Leafs logo negatively impacts my thought process. You will have to deal with it for another few months.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2011 :  20:14:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Kinda over - kill on a childish subject isn`t it.

The guy can`t properly speak English, not alone put a correct sentence together.


Okay, since we're onto pet peeves, one of mine is when someone pulls the spelling/grammar card on another poster and screws up themselves while doing it!

Duke, the phrase you're looking for is "LET ALONE", not "NOT alone". Here, have a read....

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/let+alone

For the record, it is petty, and credit to Beans for admitting as much! I think he was pretty clear from the start that it was just a pet peeve and nothing more.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  11:28:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Kinda over - kill on a childish subject isn`t it.

The guy can`t properly speak English, not alone put a correct sentence together. FFS most Canadians i know can`t put a correct English sentence together.

If a fan wants to say OUR team...let him / her...the fan is paying the $$$$$ to keep the whole damn thing together.



Errors:
over - kill / overkill
. . . isn't it. / . . . isn't it?
The guy can't properly speak English / The guy can't speak English properly.
not alone / let alone
i / I
keep the whole damn thing together. / [no reference to what "thing" you are talking about exactly, unclear]

Now, please Duke, stop embarrassing yourself, and stick to rebuttals over points made in arguments presented, not grammar, speech or writing style.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  12:43:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lol, this debate has become slightly sisyphean, but totally accurate. I see fourth year student's all the time wondering the appropiate way to write & compile their thought's for an essay or speech. Bean's is indeed correct; computers have increased ignorance & anaemic language skills, just as much as they have enhanced technology. We all make mistakes we just need to live with them or choose to correct them. Otherwise, we'll spend half our lives correcting other's flaw's while ignoring our own.

Anyway admin could put a spellcheck icon to correct a part of the problem? Obviously, sentence structure may still be sloppy for some, but let's be real this is hockey talk not Encyclopaedia Brittanica

The "They or We" theory / pet peeve needs to be put to rest

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  13:14:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good point Mario, but did you write this while wearing brown leather sandals and blue socks pulled up to your knees. If you did, Brin it on!!!!! You and your entire hockey team.

Them and You.
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
360 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  13:33:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LOL, I can't wear long socks period irritates the crap out of leg hair, but I try to preach to my grandfather all the time to not wear socks with sandal & as many of you get from your parents or grandparents i've earned the right... or back in my day... to answer your question I made that point wearing my rubber boots & a pair of jean shorts

Meet you at the bar in 29 minutes, either of us can purchase the first rd & then the war is on!!! It ill be brung!!!

In youth we learn; in age we understand
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  18:50:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans why in the name of god did you think i was talking about you with the speak English comment.....i was talking about Kopitar.

Come on guys, i wasn`t by no means commenting on any1`s writing abilities here on PUH.....i`m surely not perfect in English...doesn`t bother me how or what any1 writes, thats for sure.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2011 :  19:49:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Kinda over - kill on a childish subject isn`t it.

The guy can`t properly speak English, not alone put a correct sentence together. FFS most Canadians i know can`t put a correct English sentence together.

If a fan wants to say OUR team...let him / her...the fan is paying the $$$$$ to keep the whole damn thing together.




I looked back over the entire thread. Not a single mention of Kopitar, the Kings, or anything else that would make your comment be on Kopitar. I have bolded something very clearly speaking about Canadians putting together a sentence.

I've been Dukejacked!!! Opinion cast, called on bullcrap, completely flipped around.

Dukejacked!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2011 :  05:27:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, looking back on Duke's comment . . . it can now totally be seen as a comment on Kopitar, now that he has claimed it as so. The big thing is, Duke uses the phrase "the guy" . . . and if talking about Beans, if he didn't want to use his name, he would have certainly phrased it differently.

Fair enough Duke, I will let you off the hook, and apologies for jumping on you there. C'est ma faute . . . I mean, it's my fault for taking Beans' lead here.

Chacun sont gut.

merde! I mean . . . crap! this avatar is getting to me . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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FutureKesler
Rookie



Canada
119 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2011 :  06:04:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great points guys

Flames Suck!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2011 :  08:05:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ahh, I see now aswell. The orginal topic about Kopitar saying They rather than We. My apologies, I got confused at this thread quickly became a Beans against the World thread.

My apologies Duke, I strike my Dukejack comment from the record.
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