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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2007 : 11:48:00
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| How do you figure? Thornton hasn't even reached his prime yet. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 11:53:51
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
How do you figure? Thornton hasn't even reached his prime yet.
I think getting 96 assists in a season puts you in your prime.
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 12:30:19
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I know this might be off topic, but has anyone else had a chance to see Robert Nilsson play in Edmonton the past few games?? He is one of the players that the Oilers got for Smyth and is also Kent Nilsson's son. He is playing because of all the injuries and Flu in Edmonton.
One word, Wow. For a guy with zero NHL experience, he see's the ice better than a lot of current NHL playmakers. He will be a great Marc Savard like player.
You heard it here first. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/20/2007 12:55:07 |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 12:41:01
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Yeah beans I thought he played good in the Canucks Oilers game last night.
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 15:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
How do you figure? Thornton hasn't even reached his prime yet.
I think getting 96 assists in a season puts you in your prime.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
How? Is 96 the legal limit or something? Maybe next year he'll get 110 assists, which certainly isn't unreasonable. He's averaging > 1 assist per game this year with a cold, injured Cheechoo and for half the year a grinder and the other half a still-developing sophomore. Thornton has NOT hit his prime. You can't forget he's only 28 and when you think of a guy like Selanne doing so well at 35, I don't think we've seen the best of Thornton. Thornton is the guy who will steal Art Ross's from Crosby in the future. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 03/20/2007 15:05:07 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 15:14:44
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| Babs, I agree with your thoughts on Thorton. I think he is the best player in the league today. However, stealing Trophies from Crosby, not going to happen. Thorton will be to Crosby as Lemieux was to Gretzky in the 80's. The next best thing and won't get the hype. He will get the hardware if Crosby gets injured. And it's unfortunate because I think that Thorton is and will always be a better play. Just not as flashy and isn't as marketable. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 15:25:19
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| Are you saying that you think Crosby will score more points than Thornton every year for the rest of Thornton's career? Crosby may win the awards based on judging, like the Hart, but the Art Ross is strictly statistical and I think that Thornton still has a couple left to win. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 03/20/2007 15:26:40 |
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-oil-country-
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
988 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 15:25:42
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| Beans i totally agree with you, Nilsson does seem to see the ice great, I was at the Minnesota game (which he scored in) and i think he was one of or the best Oilers but keep in mind how many players are injured like Stoll,Hemsky etc. But the part where you said he has 0 NHL experience isn't true he played 53 games last year and got 6 goals and 14 assists for 20 points but still has amzing vision for a sophmore and i can't wait because he will be great in the future. |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 18:23:49
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| I don't know babs, I would definetly say that Thornton is in his prime now. You can't compare guys like Selanne and Thornton. Two WAY different players. I also think that Thornton will have a hard time winning the Art Ross now that Crosby is around. Don't get me wrong here, I like Thornton...I definetly think that he is probably in the top 3 best players in the league. But Crosby is just a special talent. And I completely agree with beans when he says that Thornton is to Crosby what Lemieux was to Gretzky. |
Edited by - ED11 on 03/20/2007 18:24:18 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 18:43:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I know this might be off topic, but has anyone else had a chance to see Robert Nilsson play in Edmonton the past few games?? He is one of the players that the Oilers got for Smyth and is also Kent Nilsson's son. He is playing because of all the injuries and Flu in Edmonton.
One word, Wow. For a guy with zero NHL experience, he see's the ice better than a lot of current NHL playmakers. He will be a great Marc Savard like player.
You heard it here first.
I haven't seen him play yet but if he is a chip off the old man's block he could very well be Savard like. They didn't call Kent the "magic man" for nothin'. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2007 : 18:44:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
I don't know babs, I would definetly say that Thornton is in his prime now. You can't compare guys like Selanne and Thornton. Two WAY different players. I also think that Thornton will have a hard time winning the Art Ross now that Crosby is around. Don't get me wrong here, I like Thornton...I definetly think that he is probably in the top 3 best players in the league. But Crosby is just a special talent. And I completely agree with beans when he says that Thornton is to Crosby what Lemieux was to Gretzky.
I completley agree with that. and Babs Im not saying 96 assists is a limit, im saying it is a very high amount that will be hard to repaeat
CANUCKS RULE!!! |
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T-RAV17
Top Prospect
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2007 : 06:49:55
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I can't believe that Savard has gotten to put up some points in Boston! I thought Boston was done for it when they traded Thorton, but they recovered their offence in Savard
Go Sens! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 17:08:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
How do you figure? Thornton hasn't even reached his prime yet.
I think getting 96 assists in a season puts you in your prime.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
He has 88 as it is now, 4 in the game against LA. If/when he hits 90, he'll be only the 3rd player since Gretzky/Lemieux to have two consecutive 90+ assist seasons. He still has 3 games left after this one, so he'd need 8 assists to match last year. It's not impossible, but even if he ends up with 94 or something, I'd say that's not too shabby. And just imagine if he had a healthy Cheechoo all year, that number EASILY could have hit 100. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 04/01/2007 17:09:20 |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 17:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by -oil-country-
I don't think it's Thornton's fault I think they just lost there chemistry (Mik any jokes  ?)
Haha...they lost chemistry? Well they better study harder then
As for the topic, Crosby gets most of his 117 points from assists, which there alone tells you he's a great playmaker. The best? Close, but no. Like babs said, he's full of great passes, but Thornton is the one who really sees things on the ice and creates more options for plays. So I think Thornton wins this one. |
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Guest4024
( )
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Posted - 04/01/2007 : 18:00:34
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| henrik sedin=) |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 18:24:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Babs, I agree with your thoughts on Thorton. I think he is the best player in the league today. However, stealing Trophies from Crosby, not going to happen. Thorton will be to Crosby as Lemieux was to Gretzky in the 80's. The next best thing and won't get the hype. He will get the hardware if Crosby gets injured. And it's unfortunate because I think that Thorton is and will always be a better play. Just not as flashy and isn't as marketable.
Did you just in a round about way say that Lemieux was better than Gretzky?
LOL |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 19:50:26
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| Please don't start that again. I'm putting a stop to that discussion right now. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 20:28:14
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| Just a joke Babs. |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 20:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Babs, I agree with your thoughts on Thorton. I think he is the best player in the league today. However, stealing Trophies from Crosby, not going to happen. Thorton will be to Crosby as Lemieux was to Gretzky in the 80's. The next best thing and won't get the hype. He will get the hardware if Crosby gets injured. And it's unfortunate because I think that Thorton is and will always be a better play. Just not as flashy and isn't as marketable.
Hahahahaha, this is an april fool's right.......ahem what about ovi-one?
I think thorton is the best playmaker right now.......He WILL be mario to OVI's wayne .do you guys have a clue how much the rest of the capitals suck....all teams have to do is cover ovi and they will win[this is why ovi has had less points as of late......all teams do is cover HIM.....he has no malkin's, recci's staals or others.]......
I see people calling ovi overrated now, calling him a joke........I haven't seen a caps highlight in weeks...noone shows them.......If he was on pitts and sid was on washington, you'd ALL be calling ovi the best playmaker in the league.
I HATE CROSBY |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 20:48:16
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As much as i hate to say it but he has a point
Winners never Quit and Quitters never win
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 21:10:10
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Hahahahaha, this is an april fool's right.......ahem what about ovi-one?
I think thorton is the best playmaker right now.......He WILL be mario to OVI's wayne .do you guys have a clue how much the rest of the capitals suck....all teams have to do is cover ovi and they will win[this is why ovi has had less points as of late......all teams do is cover HIM.....he has no malkin's, recci's staals or others.]......
Well Thornton has Cheechoo, Marleau, Guerin and Michalek, and your praising him with a pretty good supporting cast
CANUCKS RULE!!!
Get The Towels Out Guys PLAYOFFS!!! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 21:54:06
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I wonder if Guerin and Thornton have ever been on the ice at the same time in SJ...
Some players get assists because they play with good players and others make good players great. Sure Marleau, Michalek and Cheechoo are very skilled players but Thornton can bring them to a whole new level. You guys are almost implying that playmaking is just assists, and that Crosby only gets them because of Recchi, Malkin and Staal. Truth is, these two players (Thornton better than Crosby) can CREATE ice for other players. Thornton can circle around the net or behind it and drag 2-3 guys down low, because it is rare that ONE player can contain him. Then, when those players get out of position, Thornton can thread a pass through a seam and find whoever is in the slot or across the ice, which makes an easy goal for the recipient. Thornton opened up the ice and Cheechoo knew exactly how to get into that newly created open ice, which is why they work so well together. Crosby doesn't do that so much as slow plays down and look for nice passes, like the cross-icers he sends to Whitney on the PP all the time. The best playmakers make their surroundings better, no matter who they are. Look at Savard, who is probably the third best in the league. He plays with crap, yet he can find ice that few else could.
It doesn't matter who a good playmaker plays with, he will make them better players. If they play with better finishers than another, then they just get more assists. But remember, assists do not automatically make a good playmaker. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 04/01/2007 21:56:25 |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2007 : 22:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
It doesn't matter who a good playmaker plays with, he will make them better players. .
OK.....I'll give Terrien a call and tell him to put sid on a line with larouque (I Can't spell) and Rutuu..........See if he can make those guys with bricks for hands "better players"...Those 2 are the equivalent to ovi-ones average teammate
I HATE CROSBY |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 21:51:27
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
It doesn't matter who a good playmaker plays with, he will make them better players. .
OK.....I'll give Terrien a call and tell him to put sid on a line with larouque (I Can't spell) and Rutuu..........See if he can make those guys with bricks for hands "better players"...Those 2 are the equivalent to ovi-ones average teammate
I HATE CROSBY
Nice little come back there with the Larouqe thing. But I think you know what babs was trying to say about playmakers making players better. Bottom line, Crosby's play affects his teamates more so then Ovechkins play. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 22:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
OK.....I'll give Terrien a call and tell him to put sid on a line with larouque (I Can't spell) and Rutuu..........See if he can make those guys with bricks for hands "better players"...Those 2 are the equivalent to ovi-ones average teammate
I HATE CROSBY
I see you cant spell Ruutu either, and I wouldnt say he has "Bricks for hands" also, have you seen him in the shootout, and babs was just trying to say that good playmakers make the people around them better, you didnt have to take it as a personal attack on Ovechkin, who by the way I would definalty not classify as "Playmaker" for him I would say goalscorer
CANUCKS RULE!!!
Get The Towels Out Guys PLAYOFFS!!! |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 23:05:04
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hmmmmmm..........
Playmaker, as in one whom can make a play?
Scoring goals is the most fundamental PLAY in hockey (well, besides fighting hahahahaha)....
A lot of ovi's goals are done single- handedly, as in he MADE THE PLAY all by himself...As in, there was no play until ovi started it.....Whoever it was who said playmaking is not in a 1-1 correspondance with passing was right....Sid gets lots of assists from his precious powerplay......in a powerplay, the plays are usually all set up.....The only job is to make a good tape-to-tape pass... sid does a great job with those tape-to-tape passes, but the only playmaker on a powerplay is the guy in the penalty box..........I'd like to see numbnuts lead the league in scoring in the "old nhl"........Where 1/2 the game isn't 5 on 4...Iggy getting 50 goals in that defense oriented nhl of 2002 (was it?) is a sign of a true playmaker....
I HATE CROSBY |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 23:41:40
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Wow, IHC I could not disagree with you more. PLAYMAKER in the sense that you see the ICE in. Controlling the play. Making that "impossible" pass. It is NOT just "tape to tape" passes as you put it. Creating a scoring chance FOR SOMEONE is what we are talking about. Scoring "single handedly" is just showing that you are a very skilled player. Which Ovechkin is obviously. NO ONE has EVER said that he wasn't. But Crosby is a different type of player. He controls the play by drawing people to him which leaves other players on his team open. Then he makes the PLAY. Much like Thornton, except Thornton is much bigger so that comes to him more naturally. When Crosby does it, it is even more impressive because he does not have that physical presence about him. And it is not like Crosby can't score either. He can. 39 goals last year and 36 thus far this year is certainly not bad in this league. Above all, as I have said before, Crosby sees the ice the best (in my opinion), and I know you're gonna hate this but I'll say it anyway...he sees the ice much like Gretzky did.
Thats what we mean about PLAYMAKING. |
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BigShow
Rookie
177 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 03:10:36
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...
Playmaking is pretty exclusively referring to players setting up plays for other players. Yes a one man rush is a play. No, that is not what anyone is talking about when they refer to playmaking.
Thornton not in his prime? Thornton may put up better numbers over the next 4-5 years, that does not mean he is outside his prime. Has he peaked? No probably not. Will he win more scoring titles? I don't think he is a favourite, but i wouldn't be surprised at all. |
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Topic |
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Best Playmaker currently in the NHL? 
