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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:10:44
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Last night they lost Raymond, but word is that Edler injured himself, and Alberts also may have been injured. That would leave us to play game 7 without:
- Forwards: Raymond, Samuelsson
- Defense: Hamhuis, Edler, Alberts, Rome (suspension)
That does not look good - the loss of Hamhuis early has been predictably bad, but if we lose Edler as well for game 7, I honestly don't hold much hope that VAN will prevail, unless we see a superhuman effort from Bieksa/Ehrhoff, and Ballard gets his game together, fast.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Last night they lost Raymond, but word is that Edler injured himself, and Alberts also may have been injured. That would leave us to play game 7 without:
- Forwards: Raymond, Samuelsson
- Defense: Hamhuis, Edler, Alberts, Rome (suspension)
That does not look good - the loss of Hamhuis early has been predictably bad, but if we lose Edler as well for game 7, I honestly don't hold much hope that VAN will prevail, unless we see a superhuman effort from Bieksa/Ehrhoff, and Ballard gets his game together, fast.
Injuries have, indeed, taken a toll.
Samuelsson was a hit, as he has always been good in the playoffs. Hamhuis was a big hit, especially since he had been playing really well, and was easily one of their top d-men. Losing Rome meant nothing normally, except that now, it certainly does mean something, more so if Edler and/or Alberts don't play.
I suspect Edler and Alberts will play, even if it means it hurts every time they touch something . . . I mean, if you can't play hurt in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup final, you shouldn't be playing period. Which means, if you're out, you're hurt real bad.
It's a hit, for sure, but nothing that Boston hasn't gone through either somewhat . . . less players, but Horton was just below Krejci and Bergeron in terms of important forwards, so without him, it's also a big minus for the Bruins.
One game, hopefully the Canucks don't have to throw in some kid from the minors on defence in this one. I think they'll be ok though.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:33:19
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It's def a concern, and what some people outside of Vancouver don't understand is that the Hamhuis loss is probably bigger to the Canucks than the Horton loss. He's simply been THAT good and with Bieksa had formed one of, if not the top, shut down pairs in these playoffs (up until his injury).
I'm with Slozo, Edler and Alberts would have to be pretty seriously hurt to not make an effort in game 7. Then again, if they're borderline and take another shot, cheap or not , they could really hurt the team by leaving game 7 early?
BTW nuxfan, Higgins left the game for a period of time as well and returned to play, what was described by one Vancouver writer, "a few uninspired and ineffective shifts" in the late part of the game! Who knows with him as well? Imagine if he's out too? Kesler / Higgins / Samulesson became Kesler / Higgins / Raymond, could now become Kesler / _______ / ________??? Tambellini will likely draw in for Raymond but where they go after that, who knows? Apparently the word is they don't wanna tinker with the 3rd line but at this point, i'd move Hansen up with Kesler and Tambo and have someone else in his spot. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:43:39
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OK, Alex, I gotta say that this 'outside of Vancouver' comment is simply irrelevant at this time. Vancouver has been front and centre in every Canadian sports media piece for the past 2 months. The games are nationally televised every night in every market. People outside Vancouver know exactly how important Hamhuis is to the Canucks.
Secondly, how on earth can you say that Boston is less effected by losing Horton as Vancouver is losing Hamhuis??? Horton was Mr. Everything offensively to Boston through the first three rounds. He had 17 pts, was +11, had 8 goals, and 3 game winners (include 2 series winners) before he was taken out. He was very important to the Bruins, and I would argue as (or more) important as Hamhuis is to the Canucks.
Now, injuries may have an impact on Game 7. I just read that Raymond has a fractured vertebrae and will be out 3-4 months so obvious he's out. If Alberts and Edler are either out or hurt to the point where it will impact the play, things don't look good for the Canucks.
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 12:37:34
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| I guess we'll see if the coach has an answer... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 12:49:55
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quote:
Hamhuis was a big hit, especially since he had been playing really well, and was easily one of their top d-men
I believe that Hamhuis has actually been their biggest loss, by far. He was not "one of their top d-men", he is their top shutdown dmen, and his loss has been felt throughout the lineup. It would be on par with BOS losing a smaller version of Chara, or Seidenberg - big loss. I had hoped to see him back this round, but I think his injury is probably quite serious, even though they've said nothing.
The VAN injuries are IMO a lot worse than Horton for the Bruins. Horton is but one guy on an otherwise very deep team - and the fact that they've managed to blow the Canucks out in 3 of the 4 games he's missed tells you everything about how much they need a single guy. Losing top defense in the playoffs is always worse than losing top offense. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 06/14/2011 12:50:32 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 14:00:27
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I don't think I was comparing Horton to each of the injured Canucks, simply straight up with Hamhuis. I also don't agree that the top defensive player is more important than the top offensive player. Perhaps sometimes, but not all the time. In this case, I would compare Horton to maybe a Sedin. Top offensive talent on their team, counted on to produce point to win. I can only imagine the comments made by Canucks fans if it was Sedin carted off with a concussion. I would compare Hamhuis more to a Dennis Seidenberg. Valuable to his team, top teir defensemen, top shut down guy.
However, Vancouver would not win or lose based on the lose of Hamhuis much like Boston would not win or lose based on the lose of Seidenberg. However, a Sedin missing from Vancouver is a big piece to the puzzle, much like Horton is to Boston. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 15:07:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
OK, Alex, I gotta say that this 'outside of Vancouver' comment is simply irrelevant at this time. Vancouver has been front and centre in every Canadian sports media piece for the past 2 months. The games are nationally televised every night in every market. People outside Vancouver know exactly how important Hamhuis is to the Canucks.
Beans, do you do this intentionally? That is, quoting only PART of what i said??? Don't change what i said or that might qualify as making it seem i said something else. Hey, might that be one of your favorite "strawman" things??? Here's what i actually said: "what some people outside of Vancouver don't understand....". See where it says "some people"??? Are you gonna try to tell me that's inaccurate? Maybe some intelligent fans realize his importance but i guarntee you "SOME" don't! If you're in the former group, good for you!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Secondly, how on earth can you say that Boston is less effected by losing Horton as Vancouver is losing Hamhuis??? Horton was Mr. Everything offensively to Boston through the first three rounds. He had 17 pts, was +11, had 8 goals, and 3 game winners (include 2 series winners) before he was taken out. He was very important to the Bruins, and I would argue as (or more) important as Hamhuis is to the Canucks.
Well, i did say "probably" and not definitely but the fact of the matter is, they're both very important. The difference being, Hamhuis has been that guy all year and Horton has stepped up and become more of a go to guy in the postseason. Also, points always look prettier for outside viewers and therefore Horton prob appears to be the more attractive choice as to who is more important. If you asked someone who didn't watch the playoffs but looked at the numbers, they'd likely choose Horton as the more valuable of the two. This goes back to my "some people outside of Vancouver" comment as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Now, injuries may have an impact on Game 7. I just read that Raymond has a fractured vertebrae and will be out 3-4 months so obvious he's out. If Alberts and Edler are either out or hurt to the point where it will impact the play, things don't look good for the Canucks.
I think the dmen are more important at this point than the loss of the snake bitten Raymond! Tambellini can match Raymonds speed and forcheck (as well as his lack of size) but losing Edler or Alberts right now would be devastating! Already without Hamhuis and Rome, that just wouldn't be a pretty D!  |
Edited by - Alex116 on 06/14/2011 15:18:03 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 16:45:02
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Alex, your statement implies that those in Vancouver know more about the situation than those outside of Vancouver. I take issue with that as it's irrelevant. We are not talking about a regular game in the season, this is the Stanley Cup finals. Even non-fans can tell you who is there, who the key players are, and what is going on.
Those outside of Vancouver know just as much as those in Vancouver. Just because I missed the "what some people" and "don't understand" does not mean the comment was taken out of context. Your excuse for your comment could just as easily be sluffed off by saying some in Vancouver also don't understand.
Point being, all things being equal, hockey fans who are following the finals are just as informed in Vancouver as they are in any other city in Canada and in North America for that matter.
That being said, although I don't wish the injury on Raymond and hope he recovers quickly, his loss is not as impactful as any of the remaining d-men for Vancouver. Bieksa, Salo(surprisingly, and Erhoff appear to be the only health d-men. No Hamhuis, no Rome, and Ballard playing poorly is bad enough, if you throw is Edler and Alberts as less than 100%, that might be something that not even the brilliant coaching of AV can overcome.  |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 19:45:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, your statement implies that those in Vancouver know more about the situation than those outside of Vancouver. I take issue with that as it's irrelevant. We are not talking about a regular game in the season, this is the Stanley Cup finals. Even non-fans can tell you who is there, who the key players are, and what is going on.
No, in fact it doesn't imply that, but close. It implies that "some" people who don't follow the Canucks closely likely don't realize that Hamhuis' loss to the Canucks is as bad as it is. Like i said, some keen fans of the game prob do, but just like i had my eyes openned to how good a player a guy like Ryan Suter is, many who've followed the Canucks have prob too. However, those who haven't followed them until this final round, and believe me, there are MANY easterners who haven't watched as much of the Canucks as we out west here have, prob haven't seen enough of him to realize just how vital he is to this team. I don't even know how you can argue that. Remember, i said "SOME", which FYI implies that there are at least 2 people. If you wanna argue that, i'll go find you two!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Those outside of Vancouver know just as much as those in Vancouver. Just because I missed the "what some people" and "don't understand" does not mean the comment was taken out of context. Your excuse for your comment could just as easily be sluffed off by saying some in Vancouver also don't understand.
Sure, there are prob "some" fans outside of Vancouver who know as much, prob even more about the game and even Vancouver. There's even a poster or two on here who i don't think has much of a clue about the team they cheer for, so yes, you statement is correct. Still, saying that "SOME" (there's that word again) don't realize Hamhuis' value is a fact. It was not meant to imply that NO ONE, or BEANS, or anyone else in particular, it was meant JUST AS IT WAS WRITTEN!!! Go ahead, read it again, if you still don't get it, read it again, and so on and so on. Just stop changing my words and arguing something as plain and simple as this!!!! 
I've conveniently deleted the rest of your post as i feel no need at this point.
Beans,at times you're absolutely impossible, never willing to give an inch, never willing to admit you're wrong or that you misinterpreted something. At times i find you more frustrating than the reffing and disciplinary crap in the playoffs. Yes, this is one of those times, so if that's your intention, pat yourself on the back! A job well done!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 21:32:50
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Alex, opinion is neither right or wrong. It is agreed with or argued. I don't understand this need for me to admit I am wrong.
Just because you explained it, does not mean I agree with it. Your point was, regardless of how many times you say the word some, was to say that a group of people do not appreciate Hamhuis's worth to the Canucks. I simply disagree. I think fans (not armchair guys, but real fans) are smarter than that. I think that fans can appreciate how important players to their teams.
It's not about right or wrong. It's about agree or disagree. I disagree and stated why. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 22:21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, opinion is neither right or wrong. It is agreed with or argued. I don't understand this need for me to admit I am wrong.
Very true, unfortunately what i said, and what i re-iterated to you, is actually FACT, not opinion. If you don't believe me, maybe gimme your number and i'll have at least two people outside of Vancouver call you and admit to what i said being true?
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Just because you explained it, does not mean I agree with it. Your point was, regardless of how many times you say the word some, was to say that a group of people do not appreciate Hamhuis's worth to the Canucks. I simply disagree. I think fans (not armchair guys, but real fans) are smarter than that. I think that fans can appreciate how important players to their teams.
Now, if i'd said "real fans" or specified anything, maybe it'd be different, however, i have to admit, i consider myself a "real fan" but would never claim to know the value of EVERY player on EVERY team. In fact, i'm sure there's a lot of guys out there, especially in the east, who i'd undervalue on their teams.
Anyway, i'm done arguing with you about this. You can twist it any way you want but you'll never convince me that you didn't take my comments out of context, or simply change them to suit your claim. Funny part is, all i was trying to say was that Hamhuis is more valuable to the Canucks than some people realize. Maybe next time i'll try to simplify it for you so i don't end up wasting my time on garbage like this.  |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 12:41:37
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| the early word is that Tambellini is in for Raymond, Edler will play, and Baumgartner might be getting in - if he does, I'm guessing Ehrhoff would be out? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 13:59:58
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I'd wager on Alberts being out. He left in the third, went to the dressing room, came back with just over 5 mins left, but didn't play? Sure, there were some penalties/pp's late, but ehrhoff's been playing essentially with one shoulder/arm the entire series, i don't know how he suddenly can't go unless he took another blow?
Then again, smart money is on Salo having injured himself thinking about tonights game!  |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 14:12:46
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| Sorry nuxfan, but i'm confused now. I was immediately assuming Ballard would be the first guy to play, are you saying they might play Baumgartner over him? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 15:10:29
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quote:
I was immediately assuming Ballard would be the first guy to play, are you saying they might play Baumgartner over him?
That is correct, the Canucks will insert a guy who played with the Moose all season and is now getting into his first game, over Ballard - which pretty much tells you all you need to know about the Canucks faith in him right now.
In the spirit of Daniel, I guarantee that he'll be moved this offseason, for pretty much anything. If not, he will be sent to the minors...one way or another, he'll be off the books come September. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 15:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
I was immediately assuming Ballard would be the first guy to play, are you saying they might play Baumgartner over him?
That is correct, the Canucks will insert a guy who played with the Moose all season and is now getting into his first game, over Ballard - which pretty much tells you all you need to know about the Canucks faith in him right now.
In the spirit of Daniel, I guarantee that he'll be moved this offseason, for pretty much anything. If not, he will be sent to the minors...one way or another, he'll be off the books come September.
Wow, i can't remember how the rules work but can they trade him and throw in a chunk of cash to offset some salary? Obviously the team rec'ing him would have to have cap space in this scenario? Is that a possibility? |
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Guest2793
( )
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Posted - 06/15/2011 : 15:39:40
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| Will trade you Kaberle for Ballard straight up. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 15:53:41
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| I'm pretty sure the Canucks would take that trade - then set Kaberle free. Use the savings to resign Bieksa and Ehrhoff. Please! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 16:36:34
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Wow . . . no Ballard. Hmm. That does say a lot.
SO that means Erhoff is in? Now I am confused.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 22:31:03
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Ehrhoff did play, Ballard and Baumgartner did not - I do think they dressed Ballard as a 7th dman though, just in case?
Although AV would not comment on any injuries yet - I am certain that Edler is hurt, he played a very listless game, afraid to hit hard, not going into corners, wasn't skating hard, something is wrong. Kesler and Ehrhoff, if they're injured they played remarkably well through it. We'll find out in the next few days I suppose. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2011 : 00:31:36
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Ehrhoff did play, Ballard and Baumgartner did not - I do think they dressed Ballard as a 7th dman though, just in case?
Although AV would not comment on any injuries yet - I am certain that Edler is hurt, he played a very listless game, afraid to hit hard, not going into corners, wasn't skating hard, something is wrong. Kesler and Ehrhoff, if they're injured they played remarkably well through it. We'll find out in the next few days I suppose.
Ballard took the pre game skate as a 7th dman. Personally i thought because of that, he'd dress. I figured either Alberts or Edler was "hurting" and he'd want some backup just in case? Guess not?
nuxfan, i didn't see a lot wrong with Edler's game tonight, BUT, he's been so up and down, it's hard to tell? Ehrhoff did "man up" but i'm pretty sure he's been hurt since he left the SJ series. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2011 : 10:08:58
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nothing wrong with Edler's game? Oh man, he looked like he was wearing concrete skates. Out-skated to pucks, out checked on the boards, tentative with throwing hits. It was night and day compared to game 5 Edler.
Ehrhoff looked tentative as well, and I'm guessing if he's injured its a shoulder, we'll see. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2011 : 13:03:03
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| nuxfan, you may be right, but imo Edler was one of the most inconsistent Canucks from day 1 of the playoffs. He was either great, or crap! I thought he looked as though he had another off night moreso than an injury, though i don't know for sure. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 16:09:20
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zoinks. According to the team:
Hamhuis - sports hernia, lower groin/abdomen injury. Surgery required, may not be ready for training camp
Ehrhoff - shoulder injury suffered against SJ, no surgery but 2-3 weeks off
Edler - 2 broken fingers in game 5 or 6 (played game 7)
Higgins - broken foot in round 2 (thats a long time to play with a broken foot)
Kesler - nothing confirmed, but speculation was torn groin muscle
H Sedin - nothing confirmed. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 16:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
zoinks. According to the team:
Hamhuis - sports hernia, lower groin/abdomen injury. Surgery required, may not be ready for training camp
Ehrhoff - shoulder injury suffered against SJ, no surgery but 2-3 weeks off
Edler - 2 broken fingers in game 5 or 6 (played game 7)
Higgins - broken foot in round 2 (thats a long time to play with a broken foot)
Kesler - nothing confirmed, but speculation was torn groin muscle
H Sedin - nothing confirmed.
You may have missed a couple Nux;
Henrik and Daniel - tin man-itis (think Wizard of Oz as a hint, sorry, had to add the clue in case Utemin gets a reading day at the facility)
Jannick Hansen - complete facial reconstruction from that dirty, cheap, vicious, intentional, violent, Thor-like butt end he took(Sorry Slozo, couldn't resist)
Rick Rypien - still trying to mentally find his way back from an ugly incident where he saw Luongo using all that greasy hair product........not only on his head.
Sami Salo, - multiple contusions and lacerations, incurred while trying to get away from an angry mob and avoid injury, only to crash through the window of London Drugs....and then the Bay....and then
Sears.
and finally,
Alex Burrows - skinned knees and chapped lips(see Kesler injury above)
I had to, it's going to be a long summer. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 17:39:21
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| well played FER, well played |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 18:37:00
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FER......good stuff! But this part was BY FAR the best!
Henrik and Daniel - tin man-itis (think Wizard of Oz as a hint, sorry, had to add the clue in case Utemin gets a reading day at the facility)
Awesome!
I can take the jabs, some are well deserved! I was reading the "eulogy" in the Puck Daddy blog earlier, some pretty good stuff, though i don't so much like the riot parts as it's blamed on the wrong people (that's a whole different topic). But reading the comments, some Canucks fans can't take the ribbing. I mean, it was written by a Blackhawks blogger for crying out loud! It even warns you at the beginning that it's not entirely to be taken seriously! Pretty good read, but only for non Canuck fans or those Canuck fans who can handle it!
If you haven't read one of these yet, they were getting bloggers or writers from losing teams rivals to write comedic eulogies of the team who got eliminated. Some were better than others, but most were pretty good This one, pulls NO punches!
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Eulogy-Remembering-the-2010-11-Vancouver-Canuck;_ylt=AvGxfYMoKVpAsctQrkI3npcJfwM6?urn=nhl-wp7462 |
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Injuries finally catching up with the Canucks? 
