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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2011 : 12:58:11
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Jeff Carter will be a Columbus Blue Jacket next season tsn reports
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369793
going the other way is Jacob Voracek a 1rst and a 3rd round pick...
Ricahrds is gone to L.A for Schenn and Simmonds
only the flyers are deep enough down the middle to trade away their two top centers
I knew the Jackets would eb active on the trade market being a team that has to win now rather than later, and now with Nash and Carter locked up for good cap hit in the long term ,, poolies this year might be Nash's year keep an eye out!!!
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Edited by - Pasty7 on 06/23/2011 13:58:34
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Guest2712
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:08:10
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| also heard word from TSN about the possibility of Philly sending Richards to LA in exchange for Shenn and Simmonds |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:10:52
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| no longer a rumour....it's now true (from TSN). Richards to LA for Schenn and Simmonds. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:15:47
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holy housecleaning batman. All this to make room for a high-priced goalie, I sure hope it pays off for PHI.
Trading both Carter and Richards actually paves the way for them to hang on to Leino should they want to, as well as resign newly acquired RFA Voracek. We'll see a very different PHI next season. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 06/23/2011 13:16:10 |
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Guest9904
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:30:33
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| Who are their centers now? Feels like a gutting more than housecleaning! |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:32:09
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Wow, so much for TO being the team wheeling & dealing. I actually really like the moves by Philly. They where by far the deepest team at centre in the league & still possess guys like Giroux, Briere & Leino & Versteeg ( both resign i'd presume) plus Van Riemsydyuk & a very NHL ready Schenn could make a scary young line with lots of speed size & youth.
Plus with a Top 10 draft pick they maybe able to pick up another Dman like Dougie Hamilton who pronger could mold into a solid young dman
Only time will tell, but all Teams involved did a really solid job in acquiring what they needed. LA additional scoring, CBJ a solid player to give Nash a hand & Philly releiving cap space while acquiring some great talent for the future & quite possibly now.
Every journey begins with a single step. |
Edited by - Mario 66 on 06/23/2011 13:40:15 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 13:32:46
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Giroux and JVR are natural centers no,, and I know Briere is i assume they are maeking room for vestreeg JVR and Voracek in their top 6,,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:10:53
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Wow, this is big. Need some time to process this.
Let's see if I understand all of this:
Leaving Philly
Mike Richards
Jeff Carter
Coming to Philly
Jakub Voracek
Brayden Schenn
Wayne Simmonds
'11-1st round pick from CBJ (#8 overall)
'11 - 2nd round pick from LA
'11 - 3rd round pick from CBJ
Bryzgalov (signed)
So, in one day, Philly picks up some brilliant young players and signs a goalie long term??
I gotta think about this but on the surface this is a pretty good move for Phillly, CBJ get another talent they have been looking for, and LA just got really, really good.
Wow. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:19:54
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| Beans, i'm with you, it's hard to compute this! If you told me Philly was gonna lose Richards and Carter, i'd say they're toast, but when you analyze it, i'm not so sure! Gonna be real interesting to watch the Flyers and how they gel this year! |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:26:09
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| this looks really good for philly long term (simmonds, schenn, 8th overall, and the other 2 picks) but i'm not sure it makes them any more of a contender next year |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:30:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans, i'm with you, it's hard to compute this! If you told me Philly was gonna lose Richards and Carter, i'd say they're toast, but when you analyze it, i'm not so sure! Gonna be real interesting to watch the Flyers and how they gel this year!
Dido i think this is a case of every team winning in this trade
Columbus: Needs to win to draw back it's fan base, plus Nash made a commitment to the team a couple years back its about time they show they are committed to him, all in all the Jackets needed this move.
L.A: Needed to add offensen and another A list center to compliment Kopitar is gonna maybe set them apart in the west from the group of 4th to 12th last year,
Philly has huge talents in JVR Leino Vestreeg Giroux , some of these talents wasteing away on the third line i'm sure as i'm sure philly is aswell that JVr can do everything Carter can, not to mention they bring back a top six guy in Voracek and Potential to bout in Schenn, Simmonds can do a lot check and play a top six role,,, plus a 8th overal pick,,, Philly will be very competative next year if not even better than this eyar
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:36:45
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on a side note good luck matching up with the penguins now(division rivals) down the middle:
staal, crosby, malkin
i donno how many flyers are centers converted to wing but no combination of: briere, voracek, van reimsdyk, giroux, schenn, or leino (if resigned) can handle that assignment
gonna go on record saying this was far too much of a sacrifice for ilya bryzgalov who has yet to win anything beyond regular season.... the flyers definitely got good return on those players i'm just not sure it helps them win the cup anytime soon |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:45:04
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I'm not sure what this leaves for PHI down the middle. Briere is a natural centre and will surely become their #1 centre - but what after that? JVR, Leino, Giroux, Versteeg, Voracek are not centres (although this makes PHI pretty deep on the wing). Schenn is a centre, so I'm assuming that they think he'll make the jump this year. Perhaps PHI uses the CBJ pick to try and draft a centre...
I don't know...thats a lot of centre talent to lose. |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:47:25
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Schenn is what makes the Richards deal a wait and see, he could be just as good or better than Richards in the long run, but he could end up being worse.
Thank god the jackets got Carter they need him so bad. All in all i don't see to much down side for any of the teams, just don't see philly placing higher than 7th or 8th in the east and not making to the second round, but 3 years from now you never know. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 14:58:37
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I'm not sure what this leaves for PHI down the middle. Briere is a natural centre and will surely become their #1 centre - but what after that? JVR, Leino, Giroux, Versteeg, Voracek are not centres (although this makes PHI pretty deep on the wing). Schenn is a centre, so I'm assuming that they think he'll make the jump this year. Perhaps PHI uses the CBJ pick to try and draft a centre...
I don't know...thats a lot of centre talent to lose.
i believe JVR is a natural center when he was drafted and just converted to left wing,, but Grioux is a center converted i know that forsure,, so they will still have two very good on the cusp of elite centers in Giroux and Briere
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:05:16
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Wow. Jawdropper . . . not that Carter was dealt, not even that Mike Richards was dealt . . . but BOTH dealt?!? Crazy.
One year after signing both to long term deals, THE VERY SAME GM deals them off.
Pretty good return. Hard to tell right now with the picks and obviously the big promise in Schenn.
Had to comment before running off again . . . sad to see the opportunity of both of those premier centres leaving, but I have to think (from a Toronto perspective) that Burke has plan B, C, D and E up his sleeve.
Also makes sense for Holmgren to deal those players far away, and obviously Schenn was a coveted piece for Philly.
Wow.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:17:39
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Wow this is huge. I understand why they traded Carter and I think this is a really good trade for both teams. But their captain Richards also????? I am shocked. Philadelphia gave a pretty big contract to Bryzgalov (9 years-51 millions) and they still have to resign Voracek and Simmonds because they are RFA. And next season Versteeg and JVR will be RFA's and they will ask a raise (maybe not Versteeg). Plus Leino is a UFA. Not counting that in a few years Brayden Schenn will be in that class too. I smell big trouble for Philadelphia in the coming years.
I don't think they needed all those drastic changes in order to get a good goalie. They could have went after Vokoun who could have been cheaper. or waited for other options.
Philadelphia could look scary in a couple of years with all that young talent up front, or they could be in trouble for money. Right now , according to nhlnumbers.com they have 1.5 million in cap space and they have 8 forwards signed. Plus Simmonds, Voracek and Leino are not in that list of 8 forwards.
I don't think I like those trades for Philly and I think there's more coming from them. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 06/23/2011 15:19:32 |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:28:24
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| i would agree with the last comment made that philly isn't done yet.... more moves to come as they still seem to be missing something |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:32:38
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I think this is a testament to how deep of a team Philly is. I mean, they had (before the trades) 14 players born during or after 1984. Now, they move 2 players age 26 and pick up 3 players under the age of 25 with skill, 3 draft picks, and a legitimate #1 keeper??
This is not just a short term deal, this has the makings of a dynasty type of team. Not saying it will happen, but this is a pretty impressive framework for the future. |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:36:19
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| i wouldn't say dynasty... they will definitely compete year in and year out. look at it this way: pronger and timonen are both 37 years old to start next season... will they still be the same players by the time any of the 3 draft picks can make a considerable contribution to the team.. the answer is no. for the time being this trade was 2 elite centermen for simmonds and schenn....they will have major cap issues in a couple years guaranteed and find themselves in the exact same spot they are now. |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:38:55
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| are these trades the biggest since joe thornton to san jose? |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 15:42:16
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| 59 goals scored by carter and richards last year. you can argue that philly won't have to score as much with bryzgalov but still |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 16:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
59 goals scored by carter and richards last year. you can argue that philly won't have to score as much with bryzgalov but still
yeah but there were tied for 3rd in points for phily... Briere and Giroux scored more,, plus JVR started the breakout late last year it should carry over to next season a lot like Giroux
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 16:39:21
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Not only that, Voracek is improving, Simmonds fills a 3rd line roll, and what will Schenn be able to do this year. Plus, are Lieno and Hartnell more productive if they get more minutes.
I don't see Philly slipping much at all from this deal. Only getting better over time. Richards and Carter create holes and will be missed short term. However, I still like the deal.
Really, I think I like the deal for LA more than anyone. That is a very scary team with a 2nd line scoring threat. Kopitar, Williams, Brown, Smyth, Richards are a nice 5 of 6 top forwards. Think of thier PP with Doughty and Stoll on the points and Kopitar, and Richards on the 1/2 boards and Smyth running a muck in front of the net.
LA just fill a huge hole in my opinion. It cost them with Schenn as I think he is the real deal, but Richards is also a stud and he contributes today. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 06/23/2011 20:00:24 |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 17:00:06
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| L.A is wanting to win the cup this coming season or atleast get to the final, thats what i get from this. if they don't get there in two years they will have to start over. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 17:20:43
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just herd on TSN that Holgrem was ready to send Richards to Burke and the buds for Kadri and Kulimen, Burke said he wouldn't give up both but he would give Kadri and a 1rst rounder, Holmgrem said he'd call Burke back about it but then the offer for Schenn and Simmonds came in and Holgrem never called Burkie back,,, so Leaf fans you were ever so close to actually nabbbing Mike Richards
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Guest7742
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Posted - 06/23/2011 : 19:01:37
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| la deal have anything to do with smyths words ? think it's more likely he stays or leaves now? |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 19:33:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7742
la deal have anything to do with smyths words ? think it's more likely he stays or leaves now?
they re sayin if Reghr agrees to the deal to send him to Buffalo it's almost certain the Flames will be tradeing for Smyth
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 19:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
just herd on TSN that Holgrem was ready to send Richards to Burke and the buds for Kadri and Kulimen, Burke said he wouldn't give up both but he would give Kadri and a 1rst rounder, Holmgrem said he'd call Burke back about it but then the offer for Schenn and Simmonds came in and Holgrem never called Burkie back,,, so Leaf fans you were ever so close to actually nabbbing Mike Richards
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
If this is true, I'm really disapointed. Kadri is a good prospect but that's it (so far). Kulemin just reached his peak he wont get much more then 30 goals and 60 points. Mike Richards would have been a perfect fit.
I was actually thinking of that earlier what could the Leafs offered of that value to get Richards and Kulemin and Kadri came up to mind. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 20:03:41
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I am making a big assumption but I think Burke would do this deal in hindsight. Perhaps this was Burke playing hardball as he normally does and trying to get a better deal. Little did his know a better deal from another team was around the corner.
Even if Burke would have offered Kadri and Kulemin, if LA came over the top with Schenn, Simmonds, and the pick, Philly has to go that way. I mean, Schenn is as blue chip as they come.
I sure hope this isn't just one of those stories where the Leafs were this close to every deal in the NHL. It sounds legit at least. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 20:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I am making a big assumption but I think Burke would do this deal in hindsight. Perhaps this was Burke playing hardball as he normally does and trying to get a better deal. Little did his know a better deal from another team was around the corner.
Even if Burke would have offered Kadri and Kulemin, if LA came over the top with Schenn, Simmonds, and the pick, Philly has to go that way. I mean, Schenn is as blue chip as they come.
I sure hope this isn't just one of those stories where the Leafs were this close to every deal in the NHL. It sounds legit at least.
This story came From either Mckenzie or Mguire i do not remember they were both on the panel but i do not recall which was speaking,, i was listening and wiorking at the same time,... and i agree beans i bet you Burke was playing hardball which he should and like you said L.A came over the top to match L.A Burke would have had to give at least one of his first rounders and maybe even a second aswell ...
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 21:07:20
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| Wow! If this is true, Burke is prob steaming right now! But why wouldn't Philly go back to him with the LA deal and try to do even better? Unless LA said, "take it or leave it, NOW" i'm a little surprised. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 21:15:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
just herd on TSN that Holgrem was ready to send Richards to Burke and the buds for Kadri and Kulimen, Burke said he wouldn't give up both but he would give Kadri and a 1rst rounder, Holmgrem said he'd call Burke back about it but then the offer for Schenn and Simmonds came in and Holgrem never called Burkie back,,, so Leaf fans you were ever so close to actually nabbbing Mike Richards
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
That's a real tough call. I can't say like you guys that Burke would do it in hindsight . . . seeing as how to me, it's a thing where Burke still has strong confidence in Kadri becoming a solid 30+ goal player. If Kadri becomes that guy, then no, I also wouldn't do the deal . . . but I totally see where you guys are coming from, and can't say much myself as a Leafs fan, It's truly one case where I put my faith in the guy who is getting paid millions to manage and know in depth how good these prospects will be, and trust Burke and his coaching staff on that call.
Yes, it is salivating . . . but need I remind you that Philly traded Mike Richards? Yes, we all know that now, sure . . . but really, why? Is there something behind the scenes?
This is a year after signing a long term deal. You know, listening to Bill Watters (usually I find him annoying, but still, I needed more news) on the radio, it was funny, as he was thinking the same thing. Not really putting out there what issue Mike Richards might have, but just saying - sometimes, there's a story behind the story, that's all.
And he told the story of how the organisation he once worked for almost traded a first rounder and a prospect for a premier puck moving defenceman from eastern europ who had a "drinking problem" - in fact, he was on special medecine for it during the season. He got the tidbit talking to a trusted friend, a day before making the deal almost - and he ended up getting out of it.
Of course, I knew right away which player from his scenario (he never named names) he was talking about, as he was once the most famous Latvian hockey player out there (I am of Latvian descent - Sandis Ozolinsh. He was a pure alcoholic, even had the medecine injected in your arm that releases poison if you drink to make you stop.
Anyways, that long story is just to make you think as I did - there is likely something behind the story here. A GM doesn't just trade in one day the two premier players he signed to long term deals a year ago just to get a good goalie.
There is something else there, I feel. And maybe, just maybe, Burke made the right call.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 22:20:37
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Thanks Alex, some interesting reads there. This one really says it all for TOR fans:
quote:
If deals on the table were really Schenn/Simmonds from LA or Kadri/Kulemin from TOR, I can understand why the Flyers didn’t call Burke back
I have to say, I agree, and its too bad for Burke, but he simply cannot match that package from LA - not without adding someone like Luke Schenn to the deal, which he would be a fool to do. For all their desires, the Leafs don't seem to have enough in the cupboard to match the offers of some of the other teams in these blockbuster trades. Especially if Burke thinks that Kadri is going to mature into something great and is unwilling to part with him for something proven.
For all the rumours around Richards, he just might have needed a change in scenery and drop the C from his vest (I don't think he's going to be captain in LA). Phili is a hockey hotbed, and he was a young captain on a mixed team with many leaders - as much as I love Richards, it might be that he isn't cut out to be a captain yet, and didn't handle it well in PHI. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 22:28:12
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nuxfan.....i still don't see how it could hurt to call Burke back and say, here's the offer i got, can you add something to your package to make it nicer? Then again, i don't know if they go around throwing names out there as to exactly who they've been offered? Maybe that's why he didn't bother as Burke woulda thought he's bluffing? I dunno, but just to hear Burke's reaction, i'd have loved for him to get the call.
One other point of note that was mentioned, was that Philly prob preferred to deal him to the West!
As far as Richards goes, no, he prob won't be captain in LA, at least not right away. Slozo mentioned something interesting in that "why" would they have traded him? Is there an underlying something that we're unaware of? I've read rumour of him being a partier? Wonder what living in LA will do to him if that's the case? They better keep an eye on him there and may just wanna keep a guy like Smyth around to help with that???
ETA.....forgot to mention that i was a little surprised that Richards didn't have a NTC or a NMC? Same for Carter i suppose, but i always thought of Richards as more of their cornerstone and thought he'd have gotten one? |
Edited by - Alex116 on 06/23/2011 22:34:10 |
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Guest4086
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Posted - 06/24/2011 : 05:26:00
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there were stories swirrling around since last season that Richards and Pronger were butting heads, and also that Richards and the coach, Laviolette, didn't have a good relationship. so i suppose for Philly's sake, if these rumours were true, and taking into account the Bryzgalov signing, the opportunity to move him was at its peak.
i agree with most here. good deal for all three teams. Philly gets younger, adds a solid goalie, and sheds some major contracts. while LA and Columbus get the immediate help they were both looking for.
as for the Leafs, maybe Burke was playing hard ball a bit, but i'm kind of glad he didn't give up Kadri and Kulemin. for too long this franchise has given up on young talent such as these two, long before they're reached their potential. Kulemin has improved in each of the past two years, and Kadri hasn't even been given a legitmate chance yet. i understand the Leafs pressing need for a top line center, but there is also a long-term strategy involved, and i'm guessing with Burke these two are a part of it. and perhaps he just wasn't willing to trade them so quickly. |
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Guest2872
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Posted - 06/24/2011 : 05:35:45
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Both Carter and Richards have no trade clauses but they do not kick in til next summer (or some time shortly). This was another "motivator" for Holgrem to make the deals now.
As a flyer fan I must say I was SHOCKED to hear about the trades. I knew that once they acquired the rights to Ilya that they had to make cap space so I was expecting the Carter move( thought for sure to T.O.) but not the Richards trade....and especially not BOTH.
Too many things to discuss about this trade but I can't help but wonder if this trade would have happened at all if Bobrosky would have played even somewhat decent in the playoffs? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2011 : 05:43:28
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I don't think some rumors about locker room issues changes the opinion of Richards being a prime time player. Look at the deal?? As I said, Schenn is as blue chip as they come. Simmonds is quality and a 2nd round pick. There was a big cost for LA to get Richards.
The interesting piece here is the sway of Pronger. If that was the issue, he's got more clout than a player should on a team. I think that sends a bad message to the rest of the team.
That being said, Slozo, I have to assume that if Richards was a Leaf and not a King, you could quickly over look any past issues. I know I could if he was putting on an Oilers jersey right now! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2011 : 06:06:45
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Tough to say.
I really like the direction Toronto's dressing room is going . . . and I love Mike Richards as a player, fantastic player. But the little nagging voice about why would a team let Mike Richards go just . . . won't go away.
Philly could have easily let go of Carter, not re-signed Leino, and been good to go under the cap. No need to trade Mike Richards.
Pronger and Richards butt heads in the dressing room . . . that is not a strong enough reason to trade a player, especially when Richards is the one who is captain, and Pronger wears the A, and everyone knows Pronger is a total jerk. Besides, Pronger will retire in a year or two, Richards is/was the future.
Richards butted heads with the coach. That is also not a good enough reason to let Mike Richards go. IT's a good enough reason to let go of a third line player perhaps, but not Mike Richards. Usually, if it is a serious problem, then the coach would be let go. He wasn't, so, you'd have thought it was a workable relationship.
And yet, from the sound of it, they didn't even talk to each other any more. It's odd. So . . . why wasn't the coach fired/replced? It happens all the time on the coaching carousel . . . why not now?
Because the onus of the issue MUST have necessarily been on Mike Richards. There just HAS to be some other issue . . . could be anything, who knows, but . . . something is there that we can't see.
And I have to trust that either
a) Burke saw/knows of/found out about this other issue, or
b) is extremely confidant in Kadri as being a real blue chip prospect who has a great future
But who knows. It could be as some have postulated - c) Burke tries playing hardball, and the other team doesn't come back when they get offered someone they didn't think would be available, and grab the deal.
But why no coming back to Toronto to see where they are at? Again, as others have said, almost any GM would do that, even as a courtesy. But no, they just tool LA's deal.
Which says to me, in all likelihood, Burke gave them a firm answer, and said that he won't budge on it even if they come back from some other team and say they got this and that for Richards.
So I think it's a) or b).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2011 : 10:11:10
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Methinks Philly has finally addressed their goaltending issues once and for all!!
Unless....Bryzgalov's turn to tank??
It seems that Philly is a serious cup-contender for the next couple years now. |
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Carter to Columbus, Richards to L.A 
