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Guest9671
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 Posted - 03/27/2007 : 08:10:21
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Poll Question:
Who is the best Swedish player of all time?
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 09:09:50
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| This a hard choice. It depends if you are using peak value or career value to evaluate them. For peak value i would go with Forsberg, no question and that's who I voted for. For career value it's a toss-up for me between Lidstrom and Sundin. |
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wyntyre
Rookie
Canada
185 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 09:42:04
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Pelle Lindberg
Can't go...The Roads Are Dirty |
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Guest9671
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Posted - 03/27/2007 : 10:11:15
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| Pelle Lindbergh eh? Didn't he only play 4 seasons? Based on everything I've heard he would have been something like Roy if he played a full career. |
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juice32
Rookie
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 11:15:12
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Is only because i'm a Leafs fan that I gotta go with Mats!!! |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 11:47:49
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| I said Forsberg...Lidstrom would be second |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 11:49:38
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I voted for Forsberg as he was the best complete package.
However, no one beats Kent Nilsson for sheer offensive skill. If Kent had even an ounce of Forsberg's drive or determination, Kent would have easily been a top 5 point getter of all time.
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Saku Steen
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1102 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 12:12:32
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| Hakan Loob but thats only by stories ive been told. Lidstorm a close 2nd because of how well he plays. His shot, how he sees the ice and how he stops those great forwards. Sidney Crosby said hes the hardest d-man to get past. |
Edited by - Saku Steen on 03/31/2007 17:13:34 |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 13:20:28
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| Sundin. But why would anyone post about him right? He does play for the leafs. Forsberg is way to injury prone. Sundin has over 1,200pts. He has...most career assists by a Swedish hockey player, most career goals by a Swedish hockey player, most career points by a Swedish hockey player. He also is...First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and, Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history. All this he has done without a stable winger. But why would anyone post about Sundin? |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 13:42:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Sundin. But why would anyone post about him right? He does play for the leafs. Forsberg is way to injury prone. Sundin has over 1,200pts. He has...most career assists by a Swedish hockey player, most career goals by a Swedish hockey player, most career points by a Swedish hockey player. He also is...First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and, Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history. All this he has done without a stable winger. But why would anyone post about Sundin?
Because he's a perennial underachiever? |
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bonfire420
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Sundin. But why would anyone post about him right? He does play for the leafs. Forsberg is way to injury prone. Sundin has over 1,200pts. He has...most career assists by a Swedish hockey player, most career goals by a Swedish hockey player, most career points by a Swedish hockey player. He also is...First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and, Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history. All this he has done without a stable winger. But why would anyone post about Sundin?
Stanley Cups won by Lidstrom = 3
Stanley Cups won by Forsberg = 2
Stanley Cups won by Sundin..... = 0
Maybe that's why |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:41:19
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quote:
Originally posted by bonfire420
quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Sundin. But why would anyone post about him right? He does play for the leafs. Forsberg is way to injury prone. Sundin has over 1,200pts. He has...most career assists by a Swedish hockey player, most career goals by a Swedish hockey player, most career points by a Swedish hockey player. He also is...First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and, Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history. All this he has done without a stable winger. But why would anyone post about Sundin?
Stanley Cups won by Lidstrom = 3
Stanley Cups won by Forsberg = 2
Stanley Cups won by Sundin..... = 0
Maybe that's why
Cups don't define greatness. Marcel Dionne, Prad Park the list goes on and on. if you are judging Sundin by how many cups he's won then you are judging inaccuratly.
Long Live Leafs Nation!! |
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bonfire420
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:51:29
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quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
quote:
Originally posted by bonfire420
quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Sundin. But why would anyone post about him right? He does play for the leafs. Forsberg is way to injury prone. Sundin has over 1,200pts. He has...most career assists by a Swedish hockey player, most career goals by a Swedish hockey player, most career points by a Swedish hockey player. He also is...First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft, and, Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history. All this he has done without a stable winger. But why would anyone post about Sundin?
Stanley Cups won by Lidstrom = 3
Stanley Cups won by Forsberg = 2
Stanley Cups won by Sundin..... = 0
Maybe that's why
Cups don't define greatness. Marcel Dionne, Prad Park the list goes on and on. if you are judging Sundin by how many cups he's won then you are judging inaccuratly.
Long Live Leafs Nation!!
I agree with you cups are not the only thing that define greatness but they should definitely be considered. My choice was Lidstrom because he's been an integral part of an extremly successful franchise for almost 15 yrs AND he's been a key part of all 3 of their recent stanley cups. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:52:30
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IMO, Sundin has been a career disappointment. The guy has everything, size, speed, and skill but has come far short of his potential. Yes, he's been a good player for a long time, and I give him kudos for that. However, with his skills, he should be much better than a point-a-game player. The guy needs more heart.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great player... he just could have been a lot better.
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 14:56:08
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Thanks for understanding bonfire. But I wouldn't vote for Sundin either. My vote actually went to Lidstrom also .
Long Live Leafs Nation!! |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:05:17
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I went with Forsberg. I know this is subjective but I happen to have seen Forsberg live a few times (just by coincidence), which is a lot more than most of the others, and my opinion is largely swayed by the great impression he left me with after watching those live games. He was absolutely amazing skill-wise, and also extremely "feisty" to say the least. I really felt that feistiness even moreso live than on TV. Generally that's the case with live games, but with him that difference seemed to stand out even more than usual.
Yes, he is injury-prone, but even with that factor he still has very good numbers on his Resume. |
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:12:48
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So maybe he is an underacheiver...he still acheived more than all of these players, (minus stanley cups). My vote goes to Mats.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:31:09
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
IMO, Sundin has been a career disappointment. The guy has everything, size, speed, and skill but has come far short of his potential. Yes, he's been a good player for a long time, and I give him kudos for that. However, with his skills, he should be much better than a point-a-game player. The guy needs more heart.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great player... he just could have been a lot better.
Are you serious? Career disappointment??? How many players have +1,200pts? Sundin has played on a team that is struggling to win the cup. He will be traded to team contender in the next couple of years. Thats what they did with Bourque. Being a point per game player in the NHL is amazing. Especially with the wingers that he has played with. I'm not getting you wrong, I know you think he is a great player but I do not think he is a "career disapointment."
And for you guys who are basing your opinion on cups won. Forsberg played with guys like Sakic, Kariya, and Selanne. Lidstrom played with guys like Yzerman, Federov...not to mention coached by Bowman. I'm not taking anything away from those guys or anyone on that list. But best Swede ever? Being a point per game player is amazing especially being on the leafs. |
Edited by - ED11 on 03/27/2007 15:38:49 |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Sundin has played on a team that is struggling to win the cup.
Heck, right now he's playing on a team that's struggling to even make it to the playoffs... |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:49:33
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Thanks Mik. But I meant that they have been struggling for a long time and probably will be for a long time. Yet he is still point per game. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 15:51:23
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I want to vote for Kent Nilsson but I do not see him on the poll, who is Kent Nislon?
I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy…
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Guest4462
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Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:11:19
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| I agree. Sundin is a great player but if he played to the level of his abilities (even on a Toronto) he woujld have done even better. He should have at least a few 100 point seasons with his talent. at LEAST. |
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jbraiter
PickupHockey Pro
577 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:12:23
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| NASLUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Guest4462
( )
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Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
I want to vote for Kent Nilsson but I do not see him on the poll, who is Kent Nislon?
I'm sure he means Kent Nilsson. ;)
Kent was certainly the most talented Swede to ever play, but I would not consider him the best. He just didnt have his heart into it. |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by wyntyre
Pelle Lindberg
He was in Miracle (when the US played Sweden)
Ya, only I would know that  |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:24:09
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| NICKLAS LIDSTROUM |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 18:29:51
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Ahh...Niklas Lidstrom is an infamous name in my book. He scored the winning goal in the Finland-Sweden gold medal game in the Olympics, which allowed Sweden to defeat my favorite (foreign) team, the one I was sure was going to win, Finland.
Of course, Lundqvist isn't on my favorite list either... |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 19:48:07
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Niklas Lidstrom first, with the Sedin's second.
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~ |
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Kashmire
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
506 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 19:54:51
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Sedin's over all those greats?! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 20:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
Niklas Lidstrom first, with the Sedin's second.
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~
1. It's Nicklas. It's spelled out for you guys right up there...
2. Sedins should not even be near this list. |
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SlowShot
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
264 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 20:43:24
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First on my list is Sundin because he has amazing heart and has never requested a trade from the leafs through all those bad years. My second would probably be Borje Salming just because he was my dad's idol when he played.
Go LEAFS |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:29:56
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
Niklas Lidstrom first, with the Sedin's second.
~~~~~GO STARS~~~~~
1. It's Nicklas. It's spelled out for you guys right up there...
2. Sedins should not even be near this list.
Thank you babs. I was just going to post the exact same thing. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 03/27/2007 21:44:33 |
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dummy101
Top Prospect
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 05:09:21
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| Salming.Played til 40 or so in NHL then went and played with the"skilled"international hockey crowd for 2 or 3 more yrs back in Europe.As for Sundin and Forsberg it's a toss up,I think,however if Sundin had the talent on his wings that Forsberg has had I think sundin would be way more than point/game career. |
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Novie
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
452 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 15:37:00
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It killed me to say it, but I went with Mats
Go Sens
Crosby is God
Tucker is a douche |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 17:47:13
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It is Lidstrom in my books. Better than Sundin because he has won more Cups and was a huge contributor to his team winning those Cups.
And I disagree with anyone who says Cup's don't define players. Why else would you play?? Like Herm said:
YOU PLAY THE GAME TO WIN! (that still makes me laugh)
So, I agree that there are many great player who have not won a Cup, but a great player's legacy is set in stone with Cup wins.
Let me give an example. Mark Messier is considered as the best(or one of the best) leaders in NHL history. Why?? Because he lead his team to the Cup 6 times. If he didn't win those Cups, he would have been considered much like Kurri or Anderson. A rider of Gretzky's coat tails.
I'll give another example. Anyone one here under the age of 20 know who Bernie Nicholls is without looking it up?? He's in the top 40 all time leading scorers. He had a great and productive career yet he is rarely if every brought up in conversations. Is his name on the Cup?? Nope.
So, yes there are great players who have not won the Stanley Cup. But the number of times a name is on the Cup is a huge indicator of how highly a player is regarded as one of the G.O.A.T.
And all of this to me says that Lidstrom is the best of this bunch. Over Sundin because he is a multiple time Stanley Cup Champion. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 18:29:12
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Beans,
I gotta strongly disagree with you here! On a couple of counts actually.
1. I believe that Messier would not have been considered "a rider on Gretzky's coat tails" even if he wouldn't have won the extra 2 cups without Gretzky. Also, he would not have been grouped with Anderson and Kurri (who were no slouches in their own right, but very far from Messier in terms of greatness in my opinion). I think you are underestimating people's hockey knowledge with that. Most know how great Messier was (and I'm sure you do!). The extra cups are significant for elevating that greatness in the public's mind, yes, but even without them, he would and should still be regarded as one of the greatest players and leaders ever.
2. Related to the above, as a long-time Bourque fan, I think the Cup thing should not be nearly as big an indicator of the G.O.A.T. status as you think. I will say though that in this case you may NOT be underestimating fans/media, because I think most do put too much emphasis on this point. And what happened to Bourque shows precisely why it is silly to put too much weight on it. Are you telling me that if Bourque would have stayed in Boston and finished his career there that people would have been right in considering him in a drastically lower light than he is now considered? I agree that he probably would have been considered differently but, in terms of assessing his greatness, I don't think that would have been right.
Just to stay on topic, I'd personally take Forsberg over Sundin cause I'd simply rather have his combination of toughness, skill and creativity. The cup thing played a minor factor in the choice for me. The main influence it had actually was indirect. What I mean is that generally, because Forsberg played in quite a number of pressure situations due to his team's success, I was able to think of how well he played under pressure situations. |
Edited by - andyhack on 03/28/2007 18:49:10 |
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Blubberboy
Rookie
155 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 18:48:43
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Nikolas Lindstrom is the best.
Go Canucks. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 18:55:18
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I am not saying the great players have to win a Cup to be considered great. I just think it solidifies it more. It is the point of playing isn't it?
And to your points:
1) If Messier would not have won (and lead) his team to two more guse, he still would have have been considered a great player. But with an asterisks beside his name pre se becuase of the time with Gretzky. Same as Kurri,Coffey, Fuhr. If any of those guys would have won (and contributed to) Cups after they left, it would have taken them out of Gretzky's shadow. Messier is not the best example, but I think you get my point. Anderson is the player that breaks this rule. He won every Cup that Messier did and he is one of the most clutch playoff performers of all time. Over 1000 points and 2 goals shy of 500. Why is he not in the HOF?? I'll never know. His 6 Cups don't seem to matter.
2) If Ray Bourque would have retired in Boston, I personally think that when he was talked about, people would have said, "Great player, too bad he never won a Cup."
And the Bourque and Messier comparisons are hard to gauge as they have not been gone from the league for that long. People still remember their play. Ask that question in 20 years when all people have are stats and youtube footage.
What will Ray Bourque be remembers for in 20 years?? What will Mark Messier be remember for in 20 years?? Bourque for being a great player, and going to Colorado to win the CUP. Messier for his leadership and talent, and winning the CUP 6 times, 2 without you know who.
But we will have to agree to disagree on this. I personally think that you Name on the Cup a bunch of times is a true measure of a guy who is a G.O.A.T. And maybe I should clarify my thoughts. It is the contributions to winning the Cup that is the most important.
And, just for kicks, who was it who considered Lemiuex a better player than Gretzky because of his performances to win the Cup?? Would those performances been remembers and as highly regarded if they were in the regular season?? The Cup matters..........
PS- You are a great guy to debate with. You challenge me think. Cudos to you and Willus. Oldies, but goodies!
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 19:35:18
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| Great points, thrilling topic, wrong place. |
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87CrOsBy87
Top Prospect
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 13:34:39
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sedins all the way
Forget about style; worry about results.
Bobby Orr
CROSBY RULES! |
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Guest6842
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Posted - 03/29/2007 : 14:08:31
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Easily the best Swedish player has to be MATS NASLUND.
Go HABS GO! |
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Topic |
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Best Swedish Player All Time 
