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Guest4312
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 Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:23:31
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Poll Question:
Who do you pick as your first goalie in a fantasy draft for 2011-2012?
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:24:55
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| i like miller, lundqvist, fleury, or price |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:46:07
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Call me a homer, but i picked Luongo. Now, this is assuming the stats are based mainly on wins. I think Vancouver is still a top 4 team and he should put up 40ish wins. I feel he's a pretty safe bet. I see Washington as the top team in the east and would also consider Vokoun. IF the numbers are weighted towards shut outs and GAA, i'd prob go with Lundqvist. Personally i'm not entirely sold on NYR being a top team just yet, though they could easily prove me wrong.
Either way, my top 3, depending on criteria for pts, would likely be Luongo, Vokoun and Lundqvist. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 08:59:21
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For my #1 pick goalie, I have pretty simple criteria:
- should start 65+ games a season
- should be capable of getting 40 wins (ie, needs to play for strong team)
- should be capable of getting 5+ SO
There are only a few goalies in the league that meet those criteria for me this season:
- Luongo
- Lundqvist
- Bryzgalov
- Miller
- Vokoun
- Fleury
I would be happy with any of the above as my first pick goalie.
After that, there are a group of goalies that *should* be able to hit those numbers, but have not done so consistently in the past either through youth or inconsistency or don't play for good enough teams:
- Quick
- Howard
- Crawford
- Kiprusoff
- Ward
- Rinne
- Thomas
- Brodeur
- Backstrom
The first 3 on that list should be in list #1 in a couple of years time. The last 2 on that list are purely from an age POV, you never know if this will be THE SEASON that they finally start looking regular. |
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Guest4086
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Posted - 08/10/2011 : 09:38:41
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these days with some teams using a 50/50 strategy with their goalies, you need to be sure that you pick a goalie who is the clear cut #1 goalie. same thinking as what nuxfan pointed out.
going off the list, i'd be tempted to go with Niemi in San Jose. or maybe even Crawford in Chicago. he was outstanding in their 1st round loss to the 'Nucks; didn't get his chance early in the season as Turco was there, so his playing time will increase from the 57 gm's he had last year. managed to string together 4 SO's, and he's a graduate of the QMJHL who are known to produce some really good goalies.
but from the regulars my choices in order would be: Lunqvist, Luongo, Bryzgalov, Price, and Fleury |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 10:20:54
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| nuxfan, did you forget Price or is it more to do with the fact he plays for a team which could finish anywhere from 6th - 12th? Just curious where you'd slot him in. He should get a ton of starts and if he plays like he did last year, watch out! |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/10/2011 : 10:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4086
these days with some teams using a 50/50 strategy with their goalies, you need to be sure that you pick a goalie who is the clear cut #1 goalie. same thinking as what nuxfan pointed out.
going off the list, i'd be tempted to go with Niemi in San Jose.
i'm a little confused ... while san jose has tried to use niemi as a full time starter he often has stretches of bad play and i would stay away from him even though his team likely finishes top 5 in the league. the reason i am confused is because niemi could be one of those 50/50 strategies you pointed out and the exact reason i would not draft him. high risk high reward scenario i guess. |
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nanaimoite
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 12:17:58
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| Varlamov. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 12:45:05
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quote:
nuxfan, did you forget Price or is it more to do with the fact he plays for a team which could finish anywhere from 6th - 12th? Just curious where you'd slot him in. He should get a ton of starts and if he plays like he did last year, watch out!
Yeah, if he plays like last year, watch out. But if he plays like the year before, watch out the other way 
Price would probably fit into my second list, as a goalie with 1 good season under his belt - similar to Quick, Howard, Crawford, essentially "goalies of the future". But because I don't see MTL doing particularly well next year, he'd have to seriously stretch to hit 35 wins. I would take Howard, Quick, Crawford, Ward, and Rinne over Price next season.
Guest4086 - good call with Neimi, I had forgotten about him. I would probably put Niemi near the top of my tier-2 list. I have the same strategy, I always make sure to pick a top tier goalie, and I'm willing to use a late first round or very early second round pick to do it. The list of 6 goalies that I put up are usually long gone by the end of the third round... |
Edited by - nuxfan on 08/10/2011 12:46:53 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 12:48:47
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quote:
i'm a little confused ... while san jose has tried to use niemi as a full time starter he often has stretches of bad play and i would stay away from him even though his team likely finishes top 5 in the league. the reason i am confused is because niemi could be one of those 50/50 strategies you pointed out and the exact reason i would not draft him. high risk high reward scenario i guess
Neimi's bad stretch was the first half of last season, followed by a fantastic stretch that was the second half of the season. Call it cup hangover, new team syndrome, anger at being dumped by CHI... I think the second half Niemi is the one we'll see this coming season in SJ. |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/10/2011 : 13:46:59
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what about his bad stretch in the playoffs when antero nittymaki looked better than niemi?
niemi's numbers in the playoffs
18 GP, 9 Wins, 9 Losses, No Shutouts
.896 SV%
3.22 GAA
i never take risks with goalies in my pools i get a solid number 1 proven guy right off the bat and then feel out the draft for when i need to take a second before i'm stuck with the risky guys |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 17:03:18
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| Personally, i HATE pools which require picking a goalie or two. I find the stats are usually awarded so that many goalies go in the first round and if you don't get one quick, you're stuck with a lower end guy. I prefer just picking guys for points, seems a little more even to me, but of course, to each their own. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 17:52:43
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quote:
what about his bad stretch in the playoffs when antero nittymaki looked better than niemi?
what about it? Are you picking a playoff pool or a regular season pool? The NHL is rife with players that are good in the regular season and don't necessarily shine in the playoffs. Niemi has never truly impressed me in the playoffs - the year that CHI won he didn't post spectacular numbers, and last year he was hot and cold. But he has generally shone in the regular season. |
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 18:12:32
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Goods points. You have to be careful a good example would be taking Turco last year because Chicago was the defending champs and a solid defensive team expecting 35 - 40 wins mailed in! Sometimes starters get replaced and can't get back in due to the success and strong play of the backup after being call upon for injuries or poor starts. Thomas and Rask in Boston over the past 2 years.
I like Miller in either type of pool. He is the stud in Buffalo barring injury he will play 60+ games.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 18:14:07
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I voted Lundqvist. Tough though.
Right behind him for me is Vokoun. Vokoun has been SO dependable on Florida, and is a lock to get you solid numbers . . . but being on a new team with more pressure, age, and the possibility for less shutouts than the Rangers, leads me to Henrik. The chance for ten or more shutouts is greatest with Lundqvist, I feel.
Miller is solid. Crawford would be a "safe" gamble I think. Price as well. Luongo . . . I am staying away from this year - could be trouble, I think, just have a feeling. Hardly any cup finalist losing in 7 games has taken it well, especially with what Roberto went through, it was a bloody saga. Kipper and Rinne are there, solid bets to get their numbers (as long as Kipper doesn't fall apart, a threat at this point in his career). Ward a solid bet.
Everyone else is risky!
I may be picking a goalie first in my pool . . . I will have the 7th pick in a ten man draft, so maybe I can risk 14th . . . but it would really be nice to have one of Lundqvist, Vokoun, Price, Crawford, Miller . . . and maybe . . . uh, ahem . . . Reimer.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2011 : 18:18:07
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yeah, Turco is a great example of how that can go wrong. Rask is another - not a lot of poolies drafted Tim Thomas before the start of last year thinking he'd be the starting goalie in BOS.
I guess my criteria should also contain: must be clear cut #1 starting goalie on respective team. While people took Turco, he was a risk to lose that job - same reason a lot of people avoided Niemi before 2010. Neither one was on my radar for first round goalie picks last year.
Given his new contract, I think Niemi is the clear cut #1 going into this season, and he'd have to struggle mightily to lose that spot. Middling stats or not, SJ is a team that looks poised to challenge for the west and should win 45+ games next season. If they do, Niemi will probably be in net for most of them. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 04:56:06
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NUXFAN even if the habs don't do well i think it's safe to say they will be middle of the pack so the team will win 40 games,, with Price starting 72 games last season and no real upgrade in a back up this season you can pretty much bank on Price winning close to 35 just because his team is good enought to win that many and he will be in the net for 85% of the games, kinda like Raycroft with the Leaf's back in the day i think he won 37 but didn't play paticurly well he just got the wins
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Guest4086
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Posted - 08/11/2011 : 05:29:15
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Right behind him for me is Vokoun. Vokoun has been SO dependable on Florida, and is a lock to get you solid numbers
to me Vokoun is risky as well. if he slumps a bit they have Neuvirth right behind him just waiting to pounce on the opportunity. heck they may even give Braden Holtby a chance. and if either one were to make good on it, then Vokoun's stuck riding the pine.
guys like Miller, Price, Lundqvist, etc., are guaranteed to get around 70 games each year (barring injury of course). |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/11/2011 : 07:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
what about his bad stretch in the playoffs when antero nittymaki looked better than niemi?
The NHL is rife with players that are good in the regular season and don't necessarily shine in the playoffs.
good point. only problem is that in my draft you keep a certain amount of playoff players for that pool so it can benefit you to get a solid regular season and playoff performer. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 07:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Personally, i HATE pools which require picking a goalie or two. I find the stats are usually awarded so that many goalies go in the first round and if you don't get one quick, you're stuck with a lower end guy. I prefer just picking guys for points, seems a little more even to me, but of course, to each their own.
I used to agree with this until we structured out pool to 2 goalies rather than one and designated specific rounds to pick the goalies. It made things a lot better.
If you are picking one goalie in your pool and your pool is of reasonable size (12-15 people) then it almost doesn't matter as long as you don't take a foolish pick. There was a difference of 5 wins between the 1st and 15th ranked goalie in the NHL last season and that is pretty standard for most years. So unless the point values for wins and shut outs is insane, if you pick Luongo or you pick Rinne it doesn't matter. It's if your pool has a 2nd goalie where things get interesting.
I do completely agree with the strategy of picking a goal who plays a lot of games on a team that will finish near the top of the standings. But who that goalie is almost doesn't matter. |
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 08:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
what about his bad stretch in the playoffs when antero nittymaki looked better than niemi?
niemi's numbers in the playoffs
18 GP, 9 Wins, 9 Losses, No Shutouts
.896 SV%
3.22 GAA
i never take risks with goalies in my pools i get a solid number 1 proven guy right off the bat and then feel out the draft for when i need to take a second before i'm stuck with the risky guys
Although it didnt look like it he kept SJ in alot of games.... The defense was horrendous throughout the playoffs its not all his fault he had no help |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 08:53:56
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quote:
NUXFAN even if the habs don't do well i think it's safe to say they will be middle of the pack so the team will win 40 games,, with Price starting 72 games last season and no real upgrade in a back up this season you can pretty much bank on Price winning close to 35 just because his team is good enought to win that many and he will be in the net for 85% of the games, kinda like Raycroft with the Leaf's back in the day i think he won 37 but didn't play paticurly well he just got the wins
Pasty, I'm just not sold on Price yet as a bonafide #1 starter. He's had 1 good season, one horrendous season, and 2 average seasons. Will it be the Price of 09/10, or the Price of 10/11 that will show up next year? Until he has more than one good season under his belt - ie, shows consistency - I will not consider him before other more established goalies. |
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Guest5203
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Posted - 08/11/2011 : 10:01:39
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| not thomas |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 11:02:33
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| Beans, i guess it depends on how the points are awarded as you mentioned. However, if you designate rounds that goalies are picked in, that's almost worse isn't it? Then it's basically up to all luck as to what pick you get? If you get 12th pick outta 12, you could be screwed by 20 or so points, no? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 11:27:03
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20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 15:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
NUXFAN even if the habs don't do well i think it's safe to say they will be middle of the pack so the team will win 40 games,, with Price starting 72 games last season and no real upgrade in a back up this season you can pretty much bank on Price winning close to 35 just because his team is good enought to win that many and he will be in the net for 85% of the games, kinda like Raycroft with the Leaf's back in the day i think he won 37 but didn't play paticurly well he just got the wins
Pasty, I'm just not sold on Price yet as a bonafide #1 starter. He's had 1 good season, one horrendous season, and 2 average seasons. Will it be the Price of 09/10, or the Price of 10/11 that will show up next year? Until he has more than one good season under his belt - ie, shows consistency - I will not consider him before other more established goalies.
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Edited by - Pasty7 on 08/11/2011 16:47:03 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 16:43:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only.
Beans, looking at last year only is not really fair in this sense. Last year would easily be considered an anomaly. Looking at the past five seasons, here's what you see:
06/07.... 1st - 48 wins 15th - 31 wins
07/08.... 1st - 46 wins 15th - 30 wins
08/09.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 28 wins
09/10.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 30 wins
10/11.... 1st - 38 wins 15th - 34 wins
You can really only contribute it to parity to a point. I mean, that's a huge difference from 2010 to 2011 and i don't think the league became more even to that degree over one season? Therefore, if you look at the other years past, you can see my point. Again, it really depends what your goalies are awarded points wise, but i've seen pools which award 3 for a win plus 2 for a shutout? Even in an "off" year (compared to the past ones i just noted), Luongo would have been worth 122! Actually, with 8 shutouts, Price would have been tops with 130! In these pools, goalies become far too valuable and most guys are picking them in round 1!
I'd prefer either goalies worth 2pts for a win and 1 (or possibly 2pts) for a shutout. In drafts like this, even goalies with 45 wins and a half dozen shutouts would only be worth 95-100pts, making them worth the same avg as a top 10 player more or less. If that was the top goalie, it makes it more strategic for drafting the middle tier goalies.
My only prob with designated rounds for drafting goalies is that it becomes pretty much a crap shoot as to draft position. I'd rather see guys having to determine amongst themselves, just how early to pick a goalie! Of course, pools which only require or only allow 1 goalie per team can often benefit the guy who picks his last. I picked Cam Ward last a few years back and while he wasn't top 8-10 that year, he still got me the equivalent of 70ish points while my competetors were filling their rosters at that point with 50 point players!
Goalies in pools are very tricky as they can make or break your pool and it's prob why i prefer pools not use them!
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 16:59:19
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quote:
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
In the context we're talking about it certainly is. You asked why I didn't think Price was in my A-list of goalies to draft - how does a 23-16-10, 2.83/.905 record stack up compared to Luongo/Miller/Lundqvist/Fleury/etc?
I'm not saying Price won't have a good season. But in his (admittedly short) career, he has had 1 stellar season, 2 average ones, and a bad one. So for me, he hasn't shown enough consistency for me to burn a first or early second round pick on him. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 17:07:04
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quote:
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
In my friends-only pool each year, we give 2 pts for a goalie win, 1 for an OTL, +3 for a SO, as well as +5 for assists and +10 for goals. Offensive players have similar accelerator stats, so it works out pretty evenly. In past years, the top goalie has always been top 20 in points. A couple of years ago when Brodeur had that awesome season he was top-5, but that was an anomaly. Goalies rarely make or break this pool.
In my yahoo pools, you can draft 1 or more goalies, depending on how many you think you need - and you can draft them any time you want in the draft. Each week goalie points account for 4 out of 11 (wins, SV%, GAA, SO), and you must have at least 3 goalie games per week. Its up to you if you want to ride a single hot goalie or go for more. The right goalie can do wonders for you, and the right 3some can be amazing - last year in one of my pools I ended up with both Luongo, Fleury, and Howard (someone dropped Fleury right at his low, and I got him on the waiver wire), and I got very used to collecting an automatic 4 points every week for them. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 17:37:37
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Uhh when did he have a horrendous season? his worst career he didn`t play badly at all, his worst season at age 20 was 23- 16-10 with a GAA of 2.83 and a sv% of 905? thats not great but not at all horrendous as you described
In the context we're talking about it certainly is. You asked why I didn't think Price was in my A-list of goalies to draft - how does a 23-16-10, 2.83/.905 record stack up compared to Luongo/Miller/Lundqvist/Fleury/etc?
I'm not saying Price won't have a good season. But in his (admittedly short) career, he has had 1 stellar season, 2 average ones, and a bad one. So for me, he hasn't shown enough consistency for me to burn a first or early second round pick on him.
but my point is he is guranteed 70 starts this year as last the two years he played full time in the NHL that you call horendous season`s he was not alone Cristobal Huet was around for a good 25 wins and Halak in the other seasons ,, this year as last basicly all of the habs wins will be attributed to Prices stats which will be at least 35 barring a complete meltdown by the team, now that Price is a bonified starter he is pretty much guranteed 30 wins barring injury which puts him on your b list,, just because you know he will be getting the starts,, like i said a perfect example on this is Raycroft with the Leafs a few years back he won 37 games and i think his sv% was like 880 and his GAA over 3,, he had a terrible year and was run out of town but he still won 37 games why because he got the starts
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 20:06:24
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quote:
but my point is he is guranteed 70 starts this year
No goalie is guaranteed anything, ever. It might be one of the most fickle positions in hockey, and if Price doesn't play particularly well, a) he may not get all the starts he wants, b) MTL might not get those 40 wins, or c) both.
Injuries can happen to any goalie, so I don't put much into that - its bad luck no matter how who it happens to.
quote:
e is pretty much guranteed 30 wins barring injury which puts him on your b list
Yeah, sure, he's on my b-list - it wasn't a full list. Pretty much any #1 goalie not named Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Fleury, Vokoun, or Bryzgalov are on my b-list. I would probably also take Quick, Rinne, Crawford, Ward, Thomas, and Kiprusoff over Price from my b-list. Backstrom would be a toss-up.
You're getting pretty hung up on Price here Pasty, but I don't think I'm being unfair in saying that 1 amazing season does not a blue-chip goalie make... |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 20:27:56
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i m mostly getting hung up on the Horrendous season comment,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 21:59:04
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| well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2011 : 22:09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it.
And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 04:36:20
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
well, its pretty horrendous if you compare it to the past few seasons of any of my top 6 "most likely to perform" goaltenders. Which is how I qualified it.
Dude - just take it back. Seriously. Price has not had a "horrendous" season yet. Not even terrible, or really bad. Maybe his weakest season was disappointing, for sure, because he lost the starter's job . . . but it was not that bad, really.
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 07:44:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
20 pts?? Not unless you are getting 4 points per win.
As I said, the top goalie last year had 38 wins and the 15th goalie had 33 wins. I would suggest that is a difference of 5-10 points depending on the scoring system. Our draft also picks 2 goalies, which evens it out. The smart pick is not the 1st goalie, it's the 2nd goalie. They guy who won last year's draft had Lundqvist as his first pick, then a number of people overlooked Price as he had a garbage season they year before. So this guy took the draft by a landslide based on having 2 goalies in the top 5 in wins.
If it was a one goalie draft I would restrict the goalie pick to have to happen after then 4th round, a 2 goalie draft I would designate rounds for goalie picks only.
Beans, looking at last year only is not really fair in this sense. Last year would easily be considered an anomaly. Looking at the past five seasons, here's what you see:
06/07.... 1st - 48 wins 15th - 31 wins
07/08.... 1st - 46 wins 15th - 30 wins
08/09.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 28 wins
09/10.... 1st - 45 wins 15th - 30 wins
10/11.... 1st - 38 wins 15th - 34 wins
You can really only contribute it to parity to a point. I mean, that's a huge difference from 2010 to 2011 and i don't think the league became more even to that degree over one season? Therefore, if you look at the other years past, you can see my point. Again, it really depends what your goalies are awarded points wise, but i've seen pools which award 3 for a win plus 2 for a shutout? Even in an "off" year (compared to the past ones i just noted), Luongo would have been worth 122! Actually, with 8 shutouts, Price would have been tops with 130! In these pools, goalies become far too valuable and most guys are picking them in round 1!
I'd prefer either goalies worth 2pts for a win and 1 (or possibly 2pts) for a shutout. In drafts like this, even goalies with 45 wins and a half dozen shutouts would only be worth 95-100pts, making them worth the same avg as a top 10 player more or less. If that was the top goalie, it makes it more strategic for drafting the middle tier goalies.
My only prob with designated rounds for drafting goalies is that it becomes pretty much a crap shoot as to draft position. I'd rather see guys having to determine amongst themselves, just how early to pick a goalie! Of course, pools which only require or only allow 1 goalie per team can often benefit the guy who picks his last. I picked Cam Ward last a few years back and while he wasn't top 8-10 that year, he still got me the equivalent of 70ish points while my competetors were filling their rosters at that point with 50 point players!
Goalies in pools are very tricky as they can make or break your pool and it's prob why i prefer pools not use them!
On that note, if anyone knows a really good formula (points awarded) for goalies, please do share!
Sure Alex, you can say that the top goalie has 45+ wins and the 15th goalie has around 30. But how many goalies are closer to the 45+ wins and how many are closer to 30?? Also, this is where drafting two goalies evens it out much like the 1st two rounds of a snake draft. If you pick 1st in a skater round there is a good chance you will get a 100 pt player as your first pick and a 70 pt player as your 2nd pick where the last pick in that round will likely get two-85 pt players. It's a wash.
During the goalie rounds, if the first pick gets a 40+ win goalie, he will likely get a 20ish win goalie for his 2nd pick where the last pick in the round will likely get 2-30 game winners.
For years we have done the 2 pts for a win/2 more pts for a shutout and straight point for any offensive number (goal or assist). It does put those elite top 4-5 goalies in the top of point getters overall. This season, we are going 1 pt for a win and 2 pts for a shut out to level it out a bit. We will see how it goes. I have also heard of drafts who give 3 pts for a win but also take away a pt for every 2 goals against. So if a goalie wins a game 5-4 they only get one point where if a goalie wins a game 3-1, they would get all 3 points.
That being said, I have never known a goalie point system that works really well in a draft. They either over reward performance or under reward it. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 08:21:19
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quote:
And it's up their with the all time greats like Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur considering his age at the time and how early it was in his career, before last season he had more wins and better personal stats than Patrick Roy, Miller Brodeur Hasek,, remember he turns 24 in 4 days, which is how i qualify it
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 08/12/2011 : 09:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
yep totally agree. isn't it his off year now? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 10:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
OK, whatever. If you want to take Price in your pool while Luongo, Miller, Lundqvist, Bryz, Vokoun, and Fleury are still available, then go for it.
I would certainly like to be in that pool though
Do i sense a wager?  |
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Guest4086
( )
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Posted - 08/12/2011 : 11:13:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4312
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
To all the people who voted Thomas . . .
WHAT the HECK are you THINKING?!?
Seriously.
If Thomas gets more than 40 starts next year, I would be very surprised.
yep totally agree. isn't it his off year now?
even if he does have another great year, when your picking at the beginning of the season there is a big risk that Thomas will end up relinquishing his role to Rask at some point.
if he (Rask) wasn't their second goalie, and it was just another average joe bench warmer, then I'd have no issues taking Thomas. or even vice versa, for that matter. |
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@valanche
Rookie
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2011 : 12:31:47
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the bruins may intentionally just play thomas 35-45 games to get rask more experience and keep him fresh for another run at the cup
66 is > than 99 |
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#1 Goalie in 2011-2012 Draft 
