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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2007 : 16:09:11
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Poll Question:
If you go to a recent post by guinman in the Gretzky-Lemieux thread, you will see his complete opinion on the Samuelson-Neely hit (in response to my side comment about it in my earlier post there). After giving a number of reasons, ultimately he says this,
"That hit was clean all the way."
The poll question here is do you agree that the Samuelson hit on Neely was "clean all the way"? A third sort of middle category between yes and no is also set out below.
See the link below for the hit,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd8cDxL_5IE&mode=related&search=
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Edited by - andyhack on 04/12/2007 21:37:14
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 16:27:03
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I don't care what anyone else says. That was a dirty hit that was completely premeditated. I know what kind of player Samuelson was. I watched him make many knee on knee hits during his career. He's right up there with that useless ass clown Marchment. And if you watch closely you can see him brace his right knee at the last second before he makes contact with Neely. Dirty piece of trash.
"Go chase headlights!" |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 17:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
I don't care what anyone else says. That was a dirty hit that was completely premeditated. I know what kind of player Samuelson was. I watched him make many knee on knee hits during his career. He's right up there with that useless ass clown Marchment. And if you watch closely you can see him brace his right knee at the last second before he makes contact with Neely. Dirty piece of trash.
Ditto. This was not Samuelson's only indiscretion either... far from it. One of the cheapest players ever. Then, after dishing out dirt, to have him turtle all the time instead of letting Neely pound him was frustrating as well... |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 17:20:00
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No, I don't think it was cleen. Samulssun is a guy who has a rep. for doing dumb plays like that. To me it was totally dirty, but I think it may have been blown a bit out of preportion.
When life gives you lemons throw them at the Ottawa Senators and their fans and hope it gets them in the eyes ;) |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 17:34:42
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Ok, I've had a specialist surgically remove my Bruin glasses and here's the way I see it.
First, Willus's point about Samuelson generally being a dirty player is quite true. He was involved in way too many questionable incidents for them all to be coincidences.
As for this incident itself, and I watched the clip a lot just now, and am REALLY trying to give Samuelson the benefit of the doubt, but ultimately I come back to a basic point, which is that he could have avoided the direct knee-to-knee contact with not that much effort. You see Neely trying to avoid it, turning slightly, but you don't see anything of the sort with Samuelson. I think he probably braced his knee as Willus says, but even if that is not true, he could have tried, at least a little, to avoid what happened.
Also, even if what guinman says is true, and Neely is partially responsible due to his "I'm going through him" way of thinking, then you have to consider that Samuelson knew very well Neely's way of playing, and yet positioned himself in a way that made the probability of such an incident occuring WAY higher than it would have been otherwise. It wasn't just "a leg loaded squat like position", it was a "designed for the oncoming maniac Neely with no attempt to avoid a potential knee-on-knee collision leg loaded squat like position".
But I will give you this, guinman, your opinion is interesting and thought-provoking and you make a good point about Neely perhaps being partially responsible - I place that responsibility at a relatively low level, about 10%-20%, but maybe my Bruin contact lenses are in.
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Edited by - andyhack on 04/12/2007 20:01:58 |
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framer87
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
338 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 18:28:36
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| I voted that it was "No it was not clean all the way, but it wasn''t as major a cheap shot as many believe either". After watching the video I don't think that Samuelson did stick his knee out therefore that Neely could of saw it coming but that Samuelson did not try to make an effort to take his knee back.So I think there may have been a penalty but that it was not as dirty as many think. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2007 : 18:42:24
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Samuelson not moving his knee is exactly what makes it dirty. He knew exactly what he was doing and what was going to happen.
"Go chase headlights!" |
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Guest0776
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Posted - 04/12/2007 : 23:00:54
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| it was a knee on knee you get suspended for that now... it can end careers like it did for neely. |
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Saku Steen
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1102 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 03:46:48
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I dont think it was a clean hit but I dont think he meant too. He didnt stick out his knee to hit him so its just a collusion.... Thats my opinion.
Viktor Kozlov is also my hero!!! |
Edited by - Saku Steen on 04/13/2007 03:47:06 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 07:02:25
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The really understanding (non-Bruin) part of me can almost kind of see how people can form that opinion if they are only basing that opinion on the video - almost, but even then not really. I don't see JUST a collision for reasons already mentioned in earlier posts here. I see a guy putting himself in a position and holding a position that he knew could cause the type of dangerous "collision" that happened.
BUT, here's the thing. Why did the "collision" happen to occur with this notorious guy who is arguably responsible for contributing to the end of at least one other career too, not to mention numerous other cheap shots throughout his career? Why didn't such "collisions" happen more with other defenceman - and I know they did happen sometimes with others - but why so many of these incidents with Samuelson, and why this one in particular?
Think of it this way, you are just some little "gazoo" like guy (from the Flintstones) who dropped on earth from Planet ExZed at the start of Game 3 of the 91 semi-finals between the Bruins and Penguins. All you are told by your supervisor back on Planet Exzed is that this guy Neely is headed to a 20 goal playoff year (which you are told is very impressive!) and that the defenceman he is often up against has a reputation for dirty hockey. That "collision" occurs. What do you report back to your supervisor? "Clean play all the way"? |
Edited by - andyhack on 04/13/2007 07:04:52 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 07:18:17
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I am thinking that if it wasn't Samuelson giving the hit, it would not have been viewed as dirty. I watched the video a number of times, and what I see is Samuelson going to poke check Nelly and missed the puck, so he was preparing to throw a shoulder in to Neely. Samuelson was watching the puck the whole time, and his head was turned to the left when Neely attempted to move around Samuelson to the right. I don't think it was a dirty as some people see it. If that was the other way around, and Neely laid that hit on Samuelson, I doubt very much people would hav thought it was that dirty.
Now, I know that is not very popular, but that's the way I see it. I see a lot of knee on knee hits that could be avoided if players paid more attention. This is a good example of that, since Ulf was looking the other way. If he would have seen Neely moving and still did hit him knee on knee, totally different story. Neely also could have avoided it if he took the check square instead of trying to move around it. It's a split second decision, and human nature is to avoid getting hit, but in this case it made things worse.
My definition of dirty knee on knee hit is when the aggressor changes direction or leads with his knee and not the body to intentionally hit another player on his knee. This is not the case in this hit. Samuelson did not change his path at all, it was Neely who did. So how is it Samuelson's fault that Neely tried to move out of the check and missed??? This is a huge case of a players reputation leading peoples opinions.
And don't for one second say I am a Neely hater. He is by far my favorite player who didn't wear and Oiler Jersey. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 07:40:29
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| Interesting points - I think he did see Neely moving, his head turns at the last second to brace for the hit. I'd suggest that Samuelson was good at disguising this sort of thing. Your clear dirty knee explanation, yes, of course those are more obvious. Without getting into details though, so as not to offend anyone, there are all types of analogies we could draw on from real-life situations where supposedly clean looking people are doing things that are just as dangerous as the more obvious culprits. In fact it's the insidious (good word!) factor, that is often most appalling. |
Edited by - andyhack on 04/13/2007 07:41:39 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 08:05:02
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| I agree Andyhack. I don't think that Samuelson, at any time in his career, was really focused on not hurting people. However, in this case, I think that Neely and Ulf were both to blame. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 12:09:27
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That was hard to watch. The way Neely's knee twisted did not look normal
Always next year!! |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 08:59:28
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I really don't think it was that dirrty at all. Samuelson tried to pock the puck away and he clipped Neely's knee. I don't think that it is dirrty at all.
~~~~~COME ON STARS, LETS BRING IT HOME~~~~~ |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 13:05:54
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Ya, but Semin he had already poked the puck away and then shifted his body so he could catch Neely on the leg.
Always next year!! |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 14:44:30
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True, but I just don't think it was as bad as everyone thinks it is. But that is just my opinion.
~~~~~COME ON STARS, LETS BRING IT HOME~~~~~ |
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hithere311
Rookie
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2007 : 02:38:41
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Neely tried to avoid a direct body-to-body hit, so his knee got clipped. However, Samuelson definitly could have avoided it too.
quote:
That was hard to watch. The way Neely's knee twisted did not look normal
I know. I had to go on crutches for a week because of a similar collision with a friend of mine. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 22:23:49
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Not that you judge should someone differently from others, but it was dirty dirty dirty because of who it was doing the hitting. Ulfie was a cheap-shot artist from day one. There are accidental knee-on-knees, but you know this was not one of them.
Lots of guys play on the edge, don't get me wrong. But there is a huge difference between hitting a guy hard and hitting a guy to end his career.
Do I think Ulfie intentionally hit guys to end their careers? I absolutely, positively believe so, yes. He was and is that kind of guy. In fact, "guy" is too nice a term for that chicken.
Cam Neely was and will always be one of my favorite players, although I am not even a Bruins fan. I was going to name my first born after him except my wife screwed up and gave birth to a girl. I still wanted to call her Cam, but she preferred Julia. I lost. But I digress....
Neely should have played 5 more years with good health, but that weasel Samuelson ended any hope of that.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Gretz |
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GOWINGS19
Rookie
USA
232 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 20:52:05
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after watching that HNIC video...i dunno how ulf made it through the nhl haha he had so many knee to knee's ...i'm not quite sure if the neely hit was on purpose but at the same time..he had a lot of run ins with guys like that
"I don’t need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals." -Vladmir Konstantinov |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 03:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
Cam Neely was and will always be one of my favorite players, although I am not even a Bruins fan. I was going to name my first born after him except my wife screwed up and gave birth to a girl. I still wanted to call her Cam, but she preferred Julia. I lost. But I digress....
I guess your wife didn't buy the Cameron Diaz argument? Did you give her the name "Neely" as an alternative?
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Topic |
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The Famous Neely Incident 
