Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... Trash Talk
 Stanley Cup Rematch: Van @ Bos Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Guest4178
( )

Posted - 01/06/2012 :  12:20:32  Reply with Quote
Vancouver is in Boston for an afternoon game tomorrow, which should be a very good game!

Aside from the fact that these two teams faced each other in last season's Stanley Cup Final, this is the only game these two play against each other this season.

And both teams are having very good seasons. Vancouver currently sits atop the Western Conference, and while the Bruins trail the Rangers by one point in the Eastern Conference, Boston is arguably the best team in the NHL right now. (Especially over the past two months!)

It should be a great game, except for when it takes place. I've never been a fan of afternoon games. (And for fans watching the game in Vancouver, it's actually a 10 a.m. morning game. Wow that's an early time to be watching hockey!)

I would much rather enjoy this game being played at night, and as part of the HNIC telecast! I think the schedule-makers goofed on this one, but Boston has always liked the early afternoon games. And they are the champs after all!

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2012 :  13:26:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah, i think they goofed as well, this game is highly anticipated in Vancouver, and I'm sure in general hockey markets. VAN does not play very many matinees (usually only when they are in the US), and they don't normally do well playing them, but I sure hope they get up for this one.

VAN and BOS have been the two hottest teams in the NHL since around mid-November, and their records are pretty close (BOS is 15-3-1, VAN is 16-4-2) in that time. This game should be a great one, if VAN can stick to their speed game they should have a chance against a very tough BOS group.

I'm glad to see that VAN is starting Schneider in net as well - while Luongo should get this game to exercise some demons and continue his pretty hot play of late, Boston is Schenider's hometown and it will be his first start in BOS in his NHL career. Classy move AV.
Go to Top of Page

Guest4306
( )

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  12:00:46  Reply with Quote
I can't believe the scheduling time of this game, but even moreso, the limited TV coverage.

I'm in Edmonton, so I can understand Sportsnet West covering the Oilers-Stars game but come on, CBC couldn't find a way to cover the game? And what about TSN? At game time, they have curling and the Compass Bowl. On the other sport channels, there's women's tennis, auto racing and golf.

I know there are rights issues, etc., but this game should be available everywhere in Canada. As a hockey fan, it's one of the biggest regular season games of the year!
Go to Top of Page

just1n
Rookie



245 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  13:15:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was able to watch it online... not the best feed, but I don't have a tv anyway. Only caught the third but looked like a good game, gotta see the highlights to see what that rat Marchand did to get tossed out!
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  14:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
just1n, you missed the Canucks game of the year, without a doubt. It lived up to all the hype and more, I felt like I was right back in the finals last year, all game long. Man, do these teams hate each other - the Canuck rivalry with CHI is a good one, but if VAN/BOS saw each other more than once in the regular season it would eclipse everything they have with CHI.

Marchand was given a 5 minute major + game for clipping (yes, you read that right - a 5 minute major for clipping, I have now seen everything!). He took Salo's knees out and flipped him over on the way down, Salo left with an injured shoulder. It looked dislocated, and its Salo so you know he'll miss time, hence the major. The league will no doubt look at it as well, although I'm not sure that there will be anything further. My wife was literally yelling at Marchand through the TV, it was awesome.

There was also some concern regarding Lucic in the first period, he appeared to have left the ice, then come back on to get into an altercation - which would be an automatic 10-game suspension. He was given a game misconduct for being 3rd man in on a scrum as well. I'm just hearing now that he was ruled to be on the ice legally, so no suspension. They have also rescinded the game misconduct, although I'm not sure whether anyone cares after the game. Losing Lucic in the first period was a blow for BOS.

Overall, great game, more than one dustup, lots of heavy hitting and angry play. VAN went 4-for-11 on the PP for all their goals (including 2 on the Marchand 5 minute), and killed all BOS PP's. Both goalies played well, and Schneider esp seemed very calm and cool in the goal. The crowd was chanting "Luongo" all game long, go figure.
Go to Top of Page

foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
374 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  14:37:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cody Hodgson has quite a zinger of a shot. Tim Thomas didnt have a chance.
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  14:39:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looks to me that Lucic will be suspended for 10 games for leaving the bench.
And Marchand with what I consider to be the most cowardly hit in the NHL. When you go low like that, thats just has chicken sh!! all over it. I actually like Marchand before that but that is just a crap move.
Go to Top of Page

Open_Ice
Rookie



Canada
109 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  17:13:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lucic will not be suspended.

Vancouver wins without an even strength goal as their strategy of goading the opposition into penalties continues to work

Two years ago I cheered for the Canucks. Now my favorite team is whoever is playing against them.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2012 :  19:42:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Open_Ice

Lucic will not be suspended.

Vancouver wins without an even strength goal as their strategy of goading the opposition into penalties continues to work

Two years ago I cheered for the Canucks. Now my favorite team is whoever is playing against them.



There was no goading on either side - both teams managed to commit plenty all on their own. The difference was the Canucks made them pay with goals (4 for 11), and the Bruins did not (0 for 7).

Edited by - nuxfan on 01/07/2012 20:33:44
Go to Top of Page

Guest9213
( )

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  06:43:03  Reply with Quote
The scheduling was fine, , now you poeple know what it like to have to watch a game you want to see and have to wait till midnight to see it. I hate people out west complaining about scheduling. Too bad to see atlantic Canadas team lose to those dam Canucks.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  11:06:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9213

The scheduling was fine, , now you poeple know what it like to have to watch a game you want to see and have to wait till midnight to see it. I hate people out west complaining about scheduling. Too bad to see atlantic Canadas team lose to those dam Canucks.



Yeah, I agree with this. People in the West do get pretty good scheduling for the most part. The 'late game' for me is over at around 1030pm. That's pretty effin late in the east. For that, I will take the odd afternoon game.

As far as this game, I just watched hightlights. The Marchand hit was too low, by it wasn't that bad. It was about 8"'from a standard hip check. Not saying I wasn't dirty but I think my pal Chop and other who share that opinion are making it out to be worst than it was. The TSN story aired their package including a nearly exact hit from a Vancouver player on a Biston player(I'm looking for the video) from a past game that did not get punished with a game misconduct.

Looks like it would have been a good game to see.

Edited by - Beans15 on 01/08/2012 11:09:03
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  11:19:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, I am making the Marchand hit worse then it really was, I just don't like cheap hits like that. I consider it a real "low blow" because it usually ends up with an injury.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  12:37:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So help me out. Tell me the difference between these two hits??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vudAUXZG1cM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GN2cFZ1oMA

How come Hamhuis was not lamb-basted for his hit but Marchand is for the most recent hit??

I never said it was a clean hit, but is it the worst hit around?? I don't think so.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  13:38:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

So help me out. Tell me the difference between these two hits??



About 7 inches of thigh. Which is all the difference in the world between a pretty devastating hip check and a pretty dangerous clipping play.

In the Hamhuis hit, you can see that his hip makes contact with Lucic in the upper thigh - it could have been called clipping but it would have been borderline at best, as Hamhuis's hip was well above Lucic's knee. If you freeze your video at 8-9s, you can see both of Lucic's knees in the picture below the contact point. Lucic went over because he had a ton of forward momentum when the hit was laid.

In the Marchand hit, his leading shoulder is at or below Salo's knee - the angle of the hit is from behind Marchand, and you can see his back shoulder at the height of Salo's thigh, but his front shoulder is dipped down even further to absorb the hit. Salo had relatively little forward momentum - you can see he was slowing up to deliver a bodycheck on Marchand, and had started to turn his body to make it a body-on-body hit. Marchand simply realized the hit was coming at the last moment, ducked down to avoid it, and took his legs out in pretty dangerous play.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  15:10:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

So help me out. Tell me the difference between these two hits??



About 7 inches of thigh. Which is all the difference in the world between a pretty devastating hip check and a pretty dangerous clipping play.

In the Hamhuis hit, you can see that his hip makes contact with Lucic in the upper thigh - it could have been called clipping but it would have been borderline at best, as Hamhuis's hip was well above Lucic's knee. If you freeze your video at 8-9s, you can see both of Lucic's knees in the picture below the contact point. Lucic went over because he had a ton of forward momentum when the hit was laid.

In the Marchand hit, his leading shoulder is at or below Salo's knee - the angle of the hit is from behind Marchand, and you can see his back shoulder at the height of Salo's thigh, but his front shoulder is dipped down even further to absorb the hit. Salo had relatively little forward momentum - you can see he was slowing up to deliver a bodycheck on Marchand, and had started to turn his body to make it a body-on-body hit. Marchand simply realized the hit was coming at the last moment, ducked down to avoid it, and took his legs out in pretty dangerous play.




Are you effin kidding me?? You can't be serious????

If you can't see that these two hits are virtually identical, you seriously need glasses, lasik, and a seeing eye dog.

Gross and disgusting Canuck bias at it's best. Both hits the hitting players makes contact below the waist and above the knee.

Pathetic.
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  15:35:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK both hits are definetly low. This is the first time I have compared the two.
Big difference is Hamhuis is clearly going for the classic hip check and Marchand is clearly what I call submarining a guy (head first, ducking low). Why I hate the type of hit that Marchand threw is that players never expect a submarine hit like that and it always causes injury.
A hip check has always be a part of the game and can be extremely effective. When going up the boards like Lucic was then he should be ready for hip check. You are never ready for the submarine. Thats a big difference, even if you don't see it that way.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  18:05:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What?? That's even more ridiculous!!! Both hits are the same. Below the waist, above the knee. If Lucic is skating up the boards and should expect a hip check how does Salo not have to expect that same hip check??? You also can't say that Hamhuis was going for a hip check but Marchard wasn't!

Seriously, that's a joke. Not in any of my time on this site has there been a better comparison of two hits. It's absurd that one is ok and the other is not. It's ludicrous that one is 'submarining' and the other is 'attempting a hip check.' Both hits made contact within inches of each other.

And I have been accused of being a hypocrite?? Sheesh. This reminds me of the hit to the neck and the lack of ability to appreciate that an 8 team division has 4 teams to miss the playoffs rather than 3. Sometimes a guy feels like he is the only logical and sane person left on the planet.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  18:42:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Are you effin kidding me?? You can't be serious????

If you can't see that these two hits are virtually identical, you seriously need glasses, lasik, and a seeing eye dog.

Gross and disgusting Canuck bias at it's best. Both hits the hitting players makes contact below the waist and above the knee.

Pathetic.



They are seemingly identical in the fact that both Hamhuis and Marchand went down to hit below the waist, and both hit players went head over as they took their hits.

And that is where the similarities end. Hamhuis is clearly (from my POV anyway, if you need to call it "biased" so be it) targetting and making contact with the upper part of one of Lucic's thighs (you'll note that there is no contact made with the leg closest to the boards). See this video for another angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFQEaZh-OFc, at around the 50 second mark from the down-ice camera. Beans, he clearly hits him in the thigh/hip.

Marchand, on the other had, makes an initial point of contact at Salo's knee, or just above it. Unfortunately I cannot find a video from another angle, nor did they show one during the game... however, it is clear (to me at least) that Marchand's leading shoulder (the one you cannot see) is dipped down lower than Salo's knee. He chops both of his legs out from under him, and down he goes. No doubt the height difference between the two made this hit even worse, but its a dirty hit nonetheless.

quote:

Both hits made contact within inches of each other



That is not in dispute, as I said before, the only difference between these two hits is about 7 inches. Which unfortunately make all the difference.

I agree with Porkchop here - this sort of submarine hit is almost always thrown with an intent to injure, it is not a hockey play at all.
Go to Top of Page

Guest4271
( )

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  22:23:59  Reply with Quote
C'mon, you bumbling idiots. They kick Lucic out and then recind the misconduct because he was not in the wrong.

Then they kick Marchand out for ducking a charging Salo, so he ducks down and gets clipping????? WTF kind of a call is that.
Thought clipping is when you take someone out at the knees on purpose. If he is suspended in all of this, it's telling guys to try and take care of yourselves, but don't duck, someone might fall over top of you

This was rediculious, all 4 goals scored on the powerplay, proves again that Vancouver 5 on 5 is not that good, and they live and die with the PP

Was a great game, Sneider played very well, Vancouver did make one smart choice there
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  22:27:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGD5DbljtfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


You want another angle, there you go. If you watch to the end of the video you will see that Marchand's shoulder does hit Salo. Salo goes over Marchand's hip witch is mid thigh, not at the knees.

Exactly the same as Hamhuis on Lucic.
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  00:14:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGD5DbljtfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


You want another angle, there you go. If you watch to the end of the video you will see that Marchand's shoulder does hit Salo. Salo goes over Marchand's hip witch is mid thigh, not at the knees.

Exactly the same as Hamhuis on Lucic.



Beans i can't watch the links you provided for now because i'm at work but if the Hamhuis hit you are showing is the one i'm thinking of, wouldn't a big difference be that Hamhuis is hitting Lucic where as Marchand is ducking out of a clean body check by Salo.

that being said i think the 10 game misconduct was punishment enough, maybe a fine, you got to let players know ducking and cliping are unacceptable but to say Marchand is trying to end Salo's career and such is a little much. Marchand started going for the puck realized Salo was gonna get him good on the boards and tried to avoid it. Now the way he tried to avoid it was dangerous and against the rules but it was still a hockey play. It's not like he was swinging his stick at Salo behind the play. Things happen fast out their i see a lot of bruins games and Marchand has a tendency to get low to absorb or avoid a hit, in the fraction of a second he had to decide how to avoid Salo's check he did what he often does gets low, i'm not sayin its ok but its not worth more than what he already got.

and this is coming from a habs fan,, personally his Slew foot is more of a concern imo

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
Go to Top of Page

Guest4271
( )

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  03:25:03  Reply with Quote
I still don't see how this is a penalty.........5 minute major, gave the Canucks the game(barely), sometimes I wonder what makes a call, as the referees artound the league are never the same. I really don't see what the difference is in ducking out of the way and moving out of the way, and your opposition goes crashing into the boards.

Don't think we'll see another round, as I can't see Van city making it out of the west
Go to Top of Page

Lunchbox
Top Prospect



Canada
88 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  09:28:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The difference is that Marchand does not lead with the hip. While it is a subtle difference, it makes all the difference to the player that is expecting the hit.

Hamhuis sets up the hipcheck, by angling his body away from Lucic, bending at the wast before contact is made. As a hockey player, had I seen that coming, my brain is screaming, "Hipcheck coming"

Marchand leads with the shoulder, and ducks into Salo, making the play much less predictable. Its a small difference, and not saying that it should have any difference as far as penalties are concerned, but as someone who plays, I would have expected the first hit, but been totally surprised by the second.

Go to Top of Page

Guest0168
( )

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  09:33:37  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271

I still don't see how this is a penalty.........5 minute major, gave the Canucks the game(barely), sometimes I wonder what makes a call, as the referees artound the league are never the same. I really don't see what the difference is in ducking out of the way and moving out of the way, and your opposition goes crashing into the boards.

Don't think we'll see another round, as I can't see Van city making it out of the west



If you still don't see how this is a penalty, even after reading thru this topic, then i don't think there'll be anyone here who can help you out

maybe try looking at the clips again, and then you can look up the definition of clipping
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  09:51:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGD5DbljtfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


You want another angle, there you go. If you watch to the end of the video you will see that Marchand's shoulder does hit Salo. Salo goes over Marchand's hip witch is mid thigh, not at the knees.

Exactly the same as Hamhuis on Lucic.



This angle is the same one that we saw from the game - what I was looking for was a shot from the VAN goal side, that would show Marchand's leading shoulder, the one that makes contact with Salo. At this angle I can only speculate as to where that shoulder is hitting based on the angle of his back and other shoulder. Perhaps such a shot does not exist.

Beans - Salo's thigh/hamstring is making contact with Marchand's back, as he's going head-over. If Salo's thigh is making contact with Marchand's back, then Marchand must have actually hit him lower than the thigh.

Lunchbox also raises a good point about the differences - one actually is a hip check, the other is a shoulder to the knee. I'm still not sure how you're seeing those two hits as the same thing, but you're entitled to see what you think you see.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  11:52:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nux, watch the video again. Neither of Marchand's shoulders make contact with Salo at all. The only point of contact was Marchard's hip and Salo's thigh. If that is not clear, then I guess we are dealing with a hit to the neck.

I agree completely with Lunchbox that the only difference between the plays was that Hamhuis led with his hip and Marchand did not. I could agree that this lead Salo to believe he is not going to get hit low. I appreciate that completely.

However, the simple fact of the matter is this:

In both hits, the point of contact it hip to thigh. That is below the waist. To me, that means dangerous and illegal.
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  14:06:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
[I agree completely with Lunchbox that the only difference between the plays was that Hamhuis led with his hip and Marchand did not. I could agree that this lead Salo to believe he is not going to get hit low. I appreciate that completely.

However, the simple fact of the matter is this:

In both hits, the point of contact it hip to thigh. That is below the waist. To me, that means dangerous and illegal.



Thats the ridiculous difference that I was trying to point out, Beans. Hamhuis is in a classic hip check position. I also don't think it is a joke nor ridiculous to say that a player can anticipate a hip check when coming up the boards like Lucic was. In fact you should be looking for it.
Marchand ducks and leads with his head. Watching the video again, there is no reason for Salo to believe that Marchand is going to duck the way he did and not finish the check normally. In fact Marchand is defending his "ducking" because he thought he was going to get hurt. So he is admitting that he "ducked", he knows its a cheap shot and now feels the need to defend it.

I didn't argue that either hit was too low, I agreed that both were low hits. I just said that the way Marchand hit or "submarined" or "ducked", is more dangerous because nobody expects the other player to dive head first towards your knees. Its just a cheap shot play. You do not duck head first at the last second, its a cheap shot and Marchand knows it.

It is somewhat ridiculous that you think that a hip check where by definition you lead in and hit with your hip, making contact at the hip (Hamhuis) is the same thing as ducking down, leading with your head, making contact at the shoulder (Marchand) are one and the same hit.
Both were low hits but one is clearly more dangerous and definetly not expected by any player in any league.
Beans you usually can provide some pretty good arguements but this time I don't think you can look at these hits as the same type of hit. Yes they should be both be a clipping penalty but at least the hip check is an actual type of hockey play. Marchands hit doesn't belong in the game at all that is why he got the misconduct, that is why he has a phone hearing with Lord Shanahan. It is dangerous.

Edited by - Porkchop73 on 01/09/2012 14:08:32
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  14:26:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Hamhuis' hit was an actual hip check than I could agree with your Chop. Unfortunately, it wasn't. Both hits are low. You say that Salo couldn't expect to be hit low based on how Marchand led with his head right?? So, in the same respect, could you not say that Lucic did not expect to get hit low because Hamhuis lead with his hip and the legal check is not below the waist.?Lucic would have likely expected a hip check and got clipped. Just and dangerous, no??

Leading with the head or the hip is irrelevant in the case of an illegal hit below the waist. Is the Marchand hit illegal and dangerous if he makes contact at or above the waist??
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  15:32:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

If Hamhuis' hit was an actual hip check than I could agree with your Chop. Unfortunately, it wasn't. Both hits are low. You say that Salo couldn't expect to be hit low based on how Marchand led with his head right?? So, in the same respect, could you not say that Lucic did not expect to get hit low because Hamhuis lead with his hip and the legal check is not below the waist.?Lucic would have likely expected a hip check and got clipped. Just and dangerous, no??



Actually, this leads to a clarification question, which may be important - what exactly is the definition of a "hip check"?

My understanding of a hip check is a check that is delivered using the hip to make contact with (any part) of another player. Beans, from what you're saying, you believe that a hip check is a check to the hip of another player - ie, the difference between us is who's hip is the "hip" check referring to? I searched high and low, and I think my definition is right, but I'd love some clarification from a definitive source.

For this reason, I don't even see Marchand's check as a hip check, he led shoulder first and made contact with Salo with his shoulder, and it was very close to (if not at) the knees. Hamhuis's check was definitely a hip check, it was delivered hip first.

If you're interested, there is a reasonable article regarding the comparisons of the two hits, and some very good stills of the Marchand hit that show just how low he is, and how his shoulder is making contact. Fair warning, its written by a Canucks fan so clearly comes out on the side of Salo here, but its got some good technical analysis as well: http://canucksarmy.com/2012/1/8/when-a-hip-check-is-not-a-hip-check

Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  15:35:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marchand suspened 5 games. Shanahan's justification here: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=148388

"Predatory, low hit delivered by Marchand". Bingo.

Interesting as well - Shanahan even mentions that Marchand's bogus "self defense" defense was ridiculous, given that about 10 seconds before Salo and Marchand came together in a bodycheck, which Salo won, shows that he can in fact absorb bodychecks from fellow players.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  15:36:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two things:

1) I never said a hip check was thrown to a hit. I have always understood that any hit delivered below the waist of the opponent, regardles of what part of body makes contact, it illegal. A hip check is a hit delivered by hip not always contacting the hip. Like a shoulder check is delivered by the shoulder and not always to the shoulder.

2) I completely and emphatically disagree that Marchand made contact with Salo with either shoulder. The only part of Marchard's body that contacted Salo was his hip, very low, below the waist and above the knee. Just like Hamhuis' hit.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  15:47:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Two things:

1) I never said a hip check was thrown to a hit. I have always understood that any hit delivered below the waist of the opponent, regardles of what part of body makes contact, it illegal. A hip check is a hit delivered by hip not always contacting the hip. Like a shoulder check is delivered by the shoulder and not always to the shoulder.

2) I completely and emphatically disagree that Marchand made contact with Salo with either shoulder. The only part of Marchard's body that contacted Salo was his hip, very low, below the waist and above the knee. Just like Hamhuis' hit.



1. I believe that for hip checks, some latitude is given to "waist", and hits can be on the upper thighs - which is where I see the Hamhuis hit being laid. Clipping is anything from slightly above the knee to the ankle (after that it should be tripping).

2. My only response would be to look at the link I posted from canucksarmy, and look at the second last picture (the last one of the hit) near the bottom of the page, it is taken at the point contact is made. It very clearly (to me) shows that Marchand is at the knee level when the hit is made. Further, because of the angle of Marchand's skates, it is clear that his is facing slightly up-ice, towards Salo - which means his hip is behind his shoulder. It would be virtually impossible to make hip-to-knee contact when his hip is behind him in that way.

One thing we can agree on - Marchand did not hit Salo's neck
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  16:34:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Shanahan got it bang on. I did not even realize that only 16 secs earlier the exact play took place but Marchand made a normal hit the situation. That says it all for sure.

Beans as far as clipping goes, you are correct in saying it does not matter what part of the body you lead with, clipping is a dangerous and illegal move.

For your hit comparison. I will still say Hamhuis went in with body posture for a good hip check and looking closer at the video you provided, the initial contact looks to be Hamhuis's left hip into the groin or left thigh of Lucic but above the knee.
Marchand went with a posture of a normal shoulder hit but ducked at the last second. That is pathetic and cheap. It has intent to injure all over it. Apparently Shanoban agrees. Even more interesting is how the same play happened only 16 sec before that but Marchand hits should to shoulder. Perhaps Lord Shanahan is equally as ridiculous as myself
Go to Top of Page

fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  18:34:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hamhuis hit has relevance if for no other reason it's as equally dirty a play as Marchand's hit in my opinion. Marchand's was indeed lower, and the right call was made I believe, but that in no way exonerates Hamhuis' example.

For anyone who played any organized football, like I did in high school, was there really any difference between a chop block and a clip? As far as I remember they were both dirty shots, regardless of legality.

Marchand is guilty of being a big p****, moreso than anything. If he had only braced and went with the hit, that, as he stated in his defence, he saw coming, then this would have been avoidable, without injury to anyone.

The Hamhuis hit had it`s own fallout for it`s borderline cleanliness as he had to answer to Lucic after.....or at least should have. A low hip check like that is similar to a chop block, legal, but very much a gutless cheap shot.

Definite hatred brewing between these 2 teams.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page